Topic: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre

[Mr.Bushido]

You're right, I Do consider sotn to be the greatest of all..but that doesen't mean I don't like the previous games...who could dislike such immortal classics as super CV IV?

Please dont get me wrong, LoS IS a good action game..but not a very good CASTLEVANIA game if you ask me...as crisis and dragonslayr81 says...combining different elements would probably be the best...I just think that LoS was too much like..any other fantasy game

but that doesn´t make the SOTN artwork better than the classics or more "castlevanish", I particularly prefer the old-school style for the series

Anyway I agree that combining different elements of both sides would probably please all the fans, or most of them.

[VampirehunterB]

I would see the artwork as being different unique designs for it's ages...the classic nes-Snes artwork was very cool indeed..but resurrecting it wouldn't work today..the sotn artwork was an aesthetic renaissance which I never can turn away from, I hope she will illustrate all the castlevania games in the future, rather than having what I consider to be boring stereotype fantasy art-LoS artwork.

[Munchy]

The first entry in my list is by far the most important: NO FUCKING QTES. In an age where one character contains more polygons than the whole of Star Fox, the gaming industry still has a collective retard boner for these. "LOLZ BUT RE4 UZD TEM Y CNT WE?" Because it is among the laziest of game design choices that any 6 year old has already experienced in its fullest with the game "Simon Says." Keiji Inafune's "The West is the future of gaming" diatribes cannot be taken seriously when a character's more complex actions almost always boil down to this shit. It is the year 2011. Surely designers can come up with something more engaging than a random button prompt? No? Oh jeez...

I mention this here specifically to call out David Cox, who, after stating his own hatred of QTEs, proceeded to stuff Lords of Shadow chock full of them at almost every given opportunity. Need to open a door? QTE. Need to remove this barrier? QTE. Need to expose a strong enemy's weak point? QTE. Need to throw a guy? Yet another QTE. This really needs to stop.

Enough ranting, though. Here are some other suggestions for improving 3DCV:

-Turn down the Hollywood dial about 10 notches. If I wanted to see a movie, I wouldn't have bought a game. (By this I mean removing stuff like the "shaky cam", the way-excessive Patrick Stewart monologues before every chapter, the feverish desire Konami has for SHOCKING PLOT TWISTS, etc.)
-More horror, less high fantasy. (And if there is high fantasy, at least do something to make it feel less like shoehorning some Tolkien.)
-More music or different music. (Also, just because it's an orchestra doesn't make it automatically good.)
-Having the Castle be the middle of the game rather than the end was kinda lame. It is called Castlevania, after all.
-Don't be so eager to kill off all the interesting NPC characters so quickly. I was very sad that Baba Yaga wouldn't return for a sequel, or at least a jawesome boss fight.
-Give more substantial allusions to the old games than just random name drops.
-Take a cue from Ninja Gaiden 2 or Devil May Cry 4 if you want more complex finishers or whatever. Those games did finishers quickly, stylishly, and most importantly, without QTEs.
-The "Titan" fights would have been far more enjoyable if A) they weren't completely and utterly out of context for a Castlevania (except for maybe the Dracolich), and B) if they could be fought more like actual opponents rather than yet another wall-shimmying contest. Bayonetta did these kinds of fights correctly.
-Wall-shimmying sucks. I don't want Uncharted, I want Castlevania. Gimme some platforms to jump on.

[darkwzrd4]

The first entry in my list is by far the most important: NO FUCKING QTES. In an age where one character contains more polygons than the whole of Star Fox, the gaming industry still has a collective retard boner for these. "LOLZ BUT RE4 UZD TEM Y CNT WE?" Because it is among the laziest of game design choices that any 6 year old has already experienced in its fullest with the game "Simon Says." Keiji Inafune's "The West is the future of gaming" diatribes cannot be taken seriously when a character's more complex actions almost always boil down to this shit. It is the year 2011. Surely designers can come up with something more engaging than a random button prompt? No? Oh jeez...

I mention this here specifically to call out David Cox, who, after stating his own hatred of QTEs, proceeded to stuff Lords of Shadow chock full of them at almost every given opportunity. Need to open a door? QTE. Need to remove this barrier? QTE. Need to expose a strong enemy's weak point? QTE. Need to throw a guy? Yet another QTE. This really needs to stop.

Enough ranting, though. Here are some other suggestions for improving 3DCV:

-Turn down the Hollywood dial about 10 notches. If I wanted to see a movie, I wouldn't have bought a game. (By this I mean removing stuff like the "shaky cam", the way-excessive Patrick Stewart monologues before every chapter, the feverish desire Konami has for SHOCKING PLOT TWISTS, etc.)
-More horror, less high fantasy. (And if there is high fantasy, at least do something to make it feel less like shoehorning some Tolkien.)
-More music or different music. (Also, just because it's an orchestra doesn't make it automatically good.)
-Having the Castle be the middle of the game rather than the end was kinda lame. It is called Castlevania, after all.
-Don't be so eager to kill off all the interesting NPC characters so quickly. I was very sad that Baba Yaga wouldn't return for a sequel, or at least a jawesome boss fight.
-Give more substantial allusions to the old games than just random name drops.
-Take a cue from Ninja Gaiden 2 or Devil May Cry 4 if you want more complex finishers or whatever. Those games did finishers quickly, stylishly, and most importantly, without QTEs.
-The "Titan" fights would have been far more enjoyable if A) they weren't completely and utterly out of context for a Castlevania (except for maybe the Dracolich), and B) if they could be fought more like actual opponents rather than yet another wall-shimmying contest. Bayonetta did these kinds of fights correctly.
-Wall-shimmying sucks. I don't want Uncharted, I want Castlevania. Gimme some platforms to jump on.

I agree with this too.  Titan fights should be like the Forgotten One (LoI) and Legion (CoD) in which you fight the bosses from platforms that surround them.  I don't mind some climbing, but the climbing in LoS was way too excessive.

[crisis]

....you just blew my fucking mind, Munchy.

Someone needs to forward your post to Cox ASAP. Did you know some 2D games have QTEs now? lol

[Munchy]

I agree with this too.  Titan fights should be like the Forgotten One (LoI) and Legion (CoD) in which you fight the bosses from platforms that surround them.  I don't mind some climbing, but the climbing in LoS was way too excessive.

I gotta admit though, a Beelzebub-type titan you'd have to crawl all over would be pretty fucking gross. (And by proxy, pretty fucking metal.)

And yeah, Crisis, I've seen a few examples of that. I was hoping the 2D QTE would be relegated to shitty pirate games, but there is a pretty huge offender in Rockman Online, where bosses REQUIRE a long QTE (with the keyboard, no less) to finish off. QTEs are like that elderly asshole military junta dictator that everyone hates, yet just won't fucking die in spite of all his liver failure and dementia.

I guess it's unfair to heap all the responsibility on Cox for the QTE madness, but then again one should make sure their statements are properly backed up before making, you know, statements. Splatterhouse, also a very enjoyable game, had this same problem (where the producer insisted it was QTE free when it really wasn't).

[Kale]

The first entry in my list is by far the most important: NO FUCKING QTES. In an age where one character contains more polygons than the whole of Star Fox, the gaming industry still has a collective retard boner for these. "LOLZ BUT RE4 UZD TEM Y CNT WE?" Because it is among the laziest of game design choices that any 6 year old has already experienced in its fullest with the game "Simon Says." Keiji Inafune's "The West is the future of gaming" diatribes cannot be taken seriously when a character's more complex actions almost always boil down to this shit. It is the year 2011. Surely designers can come up with something more engaging than a random button prompt? No? Oh jeez...

I mention this here specifically to call out David Cox, who, after stating his own hatred of QTEs, proceeded to stuff Lords of Shadow chock full of them at almost every given opportunity. Need to open a door? QTE. Need to remove this barrier? QTE. Need to expose a strong enemy's weak point? QTE. Need to throw a guy? Yet another QTE. This really needs to stop.

Hah, yea... talk about BS when that came around. Some of those cutscenes are awesome but you know what? They could've just have been awesome cutscenes instead of an awesome cutscene filled with QTEs.

Shocking plot twists are fine however, though the ones done in LoS were mostly in poor taste and did seem hollywoodish.

I'm fine with the castle being a thing on the way though yea... not having it end in a castle just didn't feel right for a CV game.

While I did think the titan fights were damn boring, but like you enjoyed the dracolich, I don't think Bayonetta did it too great either, well not really, they did have the right way of thinknig, but man... the camera really messed me up in that game.

The rest I agree with. A platformer shouldn't have so much shimmying, so this game which is only part platformer should have even less, I want some reflexive platforming like say....... DMC4's metal bridge where you have to run across with the boss destroying it or NGB's rolling boulder sequence where you have to  move really fast while running on walls and going under fallen rocks to bypass obstacles. Or ones that doesn't feel so slow or even stagnant which shimmying does.

....you just blew my fucking mind, Munchy.

Someone needs to forward your post to Cox ASAP. Did you know some 2D games have QTEs now? lol

Yea... "my" game. =D

[Dremn]

Completely agree about the QTE's. They're just not necessary or needed at all, and I do recall David saying how much he hates QTE's too in several interviews. Weird.

[Kale]

Forget that, I remember him saying the game will not have QTEs... apparently he lied or he doesn't believe what he did are "QTEs".

[Munchy]

I agree, plot twists are cool. When done correctly. But games nowadays can't really wrap their head around a plot that isn't "My wife is dead, desire revenge," or " OH WAIT IT WAS ACTUALLY ME WHO KILLED MY WIFE." Lords of Shadow had the nega-balls to pack these two overused scenarios in one game. This plot twist was cool when Silent Hill 2 did it ten years ago. It's in even more poor taste for a game advertised by its deep and emotional storyline (of which LoS's was neither).

[Kingshango]

Just coming here to remind you guy's the walls have eyes, be careful what you post here.

With that said, I agree with Munchy. QTE's can die in a horrible fire, if your gonna make a cutscene, make a cot damn cutscene. Don't just spring up a QTE out of nowhere  after a long ass battle. Find a better design choice than just resorting to the old, overused, overdone, overrated and lazy design choices that are QTE's. In fact, if your game isn't Dragons Lair or Shenmue, your game should NOT have QTE's in them.

Hear me Enric, Cox, no more QTE's in future installments plz? Just make elaborate uninterupted cutscenes and I'll promise you everyone on this board will watched them without skipping, you have my word as a fan and a consumer.

As for plot twist's, I like them as long as they're done right.( I for one like the big twist at the end of the game.)

[Dremn]

Only hopes I have for future installments is that they feel more like a Castlevania game in spirit. Don't get me wrong I loved Lords of Shadow, but I still have that lingering feeling of wishing it could have been a bit more Castlevania influenced instead of...well the new direction.

All sub weapons, pot roast/food hidden in the walls, and candles/torches to whip with hearts/money shouldn't be that much to ask for in the sequel. As much as I loved destroying/whipping the artifacts/objects in the levels they could have easily have been candles/torches instead.

[Alutwon]

delete

[Alutwon]

I respect what LoS is and I really do enjoy it, but I feel like I'd be able to appreciate it more if the sequel got back to what CV should be about (and if MS took advice from Munchy). Basically what I'm saying it that It's okay to have oddballs here and there and LoS much like HoDiss or Simon's quest is an oddball imo.

[X]

Simon's Quest was an odd-ball in the classic series, but it still felt like Castlevania. I'd personally go with a more CV64/LoD type game with vast improvements on graphics, camera, etc.

-X