Topic: Egoraptor pit's CV1 against CV2

[A-Yty]

It would feel unfair to simply call SQ a horrible game since it has so many cool, original ideas.

[uzo]

Also, how come I never hear people complaining about the invisible pits in the Mega Man games?

Because Megaman doesn't spam them, and they're only in one stage of the game. Also Megaman doesn't make you go all the way back and around when you do fall through them. I think Megaman 2 was the only game where there was no visual indicator that that space in the floor was not solid as well.

except in Castlevania II you can find out where the pits are ahead of time.

Use more Bubble Lead.

[DoctaMario]

Docta:
so basically, quality is contingent upon its chronological context? that doesn't really make much sense. if something is good, it is good, and it does not matter when it was made or when it is being received; similarly, if something is bad, the same is true. if something that is bad appears to be good out of ignorance, or because something is not so developed, then that is a matter of misperception or self-deception.

comparatively good does not equal good.

Basically Aridale said what I would have said. But if Simon's Quest were to come out today in exactly the form it's in, it would get an unreal amount of hate for being what it is. Because people are lazy and only care about good graphics these days (and I'll admit I'm one of them sometimes.)

One of my biggest complaints is this:

On top of that, the monsters were pretty boring, and the boss fights were awful. If Simon's Quest were able to keep some of the great level design that CV1 had, then that would be great. But the world was just felt a little empty and repetitive. For instance, the mansions really had poor design. They weren't even close to being as visually appealing as the areas in CV1, and the enemy placement just felt boring. When I play through CV1, it feels like every brick, every enemy, and every jump was carefully considered by the designer. Look at level 4 for instance, theres that part where you are on a moving platform while there are bats coming at you, and then at one point you are under those rocks which reduce your mobility, and on top of that there are those merman, at which point you need to jump onto the next ledge and then onto another platform. Those elements all really came together well to make the spot interesting. From what I played of Simon's Quest, there was never really anything like that. It just felt like the mansions and the outdoor areas were just filled with stuff. By all means, its a good game (especially for its time) that introduced some great concepts, but I find that CV1 and 3 (even though I suck at that one) are just more fun to play through and were designed better.

Castlevania and Simon's Quest are two entirely different types of games though. Where Castlevania is an arcade game meant to eat your quarters, SQ is meant to be explored. I think the level design in Simon's Quest is excellent considering the limitations they had at the time. The enemy placement in Simon's Quest is as it is in most of the earlier CV games: it makes sense. Werewolves and skeletons are in the forests, zombies in the towns, armors, gargoyles, and knight skeletons in the mansions, etc.

The difficulty in Simon's Quest isn't in the combat, it's in finding your way, sussing out the clues, finding the items you need. Comparing it to Castlevania is like comparing apples to wolverines. And for the record, it's the ONLY truly non-linear Castlevania game. You can say what you want about the Castle-roids, but you can only go certain places after getting certain things and there's a definite order of progression. In Simon's Quest, you can do just about anything in any order you want with a few exceptions. The only items you truly NEED are the Holy Water, Crystals, Oak Stakes, Dracula's Body parts, and Magic Cross.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I love throwing the holy water around to find which blocks you can walk on. That, and Milon's Secret Castle rules as well. One of the weirdest games I've ever played, but I have fond memories of playing it as a kid. Couldn't have done it without How to Win at Nintendo Games #2, though. Plus, it paved the way for the much more fun sequel, DoReMi Fantasy: Milon's DokiDoki Adventure, which kicks aaaaaaass.

In regard to this clue, isn't there also one about hitting your head against a rock? It's all pretty cryptic and weird, but it's not like it's impossible to figure things out without a guide. So I call bullshit on the other people in this thread crying bullshit.

The "HIT YOUR HEAD ON DEBORAH CLIFF TO MAKE A HOLE" is a bogus villager clue.
The "WAIT FOR A SOUL WITH A RED CRYSTAL ON DEBORAH CLIFF" is a true clue.  You may ask yourself "How do I wait?"  but then you'll remember that in the lake with the other crystal, you also had to press down and... wait.
So you would instinctively press down and wait, and behold!  A soul, in the form of a twister.

[Vampire Killer]

The "HIT YOUR HEAD ON DEBORAH CLIFF TO MAKE A HOLE" is a bogus villager clue.
The "WAIT FOR A SOUL WITH A RED CRYSTAL ON DEBORAH CLIFF" is a true clue.  You may ask yourself "How do I wait?"  but then you'll remember that in the lake with the other crystal, you also had to press down and... wait.
So you would instinctively press down and wait, and behold!  A soul, in the form of a twister.

Jorge is so passionate about this only because in real life that's his preferred method of transportation.

And I love how you lay that out with such passion, as if finding it is the most blatantly obvious thing in the world. 

[X]

Has anyone ever tried this? I did and I'm surprised that none of the developers caught on: Don't bother using the Blue crystal. Just get the red crystal instead and use it on both the lake and the cliff. They both work.

-X

[Aridale]

yeah all the crystals do somethin new and the same thing the one before em did. The red crystal will show the invis platform in the first mansion too

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Jorge is so passionate about this only because in real life that's his preferred method of transportation.

And I love how you lay that out with such passion, as if finding it is the most blatantly obvious thing in the world. 

Oh if only we could really use Red Crystals and Recorder Flutes to Tornado-Warp in real life...

[Thunderbrand]

Jorge is so passionate about this only because in real life that's his preferred method of transportation.

And I love how you lay that out with such passion, as if finding it is the most blatantly obvious thing in the world. 

Actually that's how I found the tornado the first time too. After using the blue crystal at the lake, I pretty much started using crystals at every dead end just to see what would happen. I was pretty happy when I tried it at the cliff and it worked 

[default2k]

I am the only one who deosnt like how this guy is screaming trough the review?? Maybe i dont have a sense of humor but whatever.

And yeah, i agree that you just cant finish this game on your own. I remember playing it and if i went to the far left, there was this wall i couldnt jump over, and if i headed to the far right, there was a giant lake i coudlnt get past either. I also recall an empty mansion. I later discovered how it was but come on, how were kids supossed to figure that out??

PD: Someone should tell the AVGN that he isnt funny.

[Joachim]

This is wrong. It makes perfect sense. Of course somethin you never played thats 20+ years old wont be as good now as it was when it was new. If youd never played Doom1 when it was new and you went back and played it now youd be like "wtf is this? Why did ppl like this game so much? I dont see what the big deal is?"

Not quite.
I pre-empted this kind of sentiment in my original post:
" if something that is bad appears to be good out of ignorance, or because something is not so developed, then that is a matter of misperception or self-deception."

The perception of things not aging well is a matter of our ignorance, of us not knowing any better, not of the actual quality of the thing itself being any different. Upon completion, a game does not change; and it is intrinsically the factors held within the game that determine its objective quality, and with those remaining a constant, the variable thus becomes our perception of those traits, of those factors. Something that is legitimately good will always be so: something that is not, will not.

Actual quality stands the test of time, and those who actual search for that quality instead of seeking out only the most superficial of traits will be able to appreciate games like the first Castlevania just as much now as they would have back in the day.

Basically Aridale said what I would have said. But if Simon's Quest were to come out today in exactly the form it's in, it would get an unreal amount of hate for being what it is. Because people are lazy and only care about good graphics these days (and I'll admit I'm one of them sometimes.)

And the issue here is that you're conflating popular opinion for somethings innate sense of quality.

[Sindra]

I am the only one who deosnt like how this guy is screaming trough the review?? Maybe i dont have a sense of humor but whatever.

Got me to chuckle.

He's very passionate about his......uhh......everything.

[Abnormal Freak]

Someone should tell the AVGN that he isnt funny.

I'll leave that task for someone with a crappy sense of humor. ;) I freagin' love the guy—buy all the DVDs, watch and love all the latest episodes, watch all the non-Nerd stuff like his movie reviews, other short films, and all that, anxiously anticipating the AVGN movie he's writing, and so on. Can't get enough of the guy.

[Vampire Killer]

I'll leave that task for someone with a crappy sense of humor. I freagin' love the guy—buy all the DVDs, watch and love all the latest episodes, watch all the non-Nerd stuff like his movie reviews, other short films, and all that, anxiously anticipating the AVGN movie he's writing, and so on. Can't get enough of the guy.

Got an unhealthy little overly-obsessive crush there, huh?

[DoctaMario]

Not quite.
I pre-empted this kind of sentiment in my original post:
" if something that is bad appears to be good out of ignorance, or because something is not so developed, then that is a matter of misperception or self-deception."

The perception of things not aging well is a matter of our ignorance, of us not knowing any better, not of the actual quality of the thing itself being any different. Upon completion, a game does not change; and it is intrinsically the factors held within the game that determine its objective quality, and with those remaining a constant, the variable thus becomes our perception of those traits, of those factors. Something that is legitimately good will always be so: something that is not, will not.

Actual quality stands the test of time, and those who actual search for that quality instead of seeking out only the most superficial of traits will be able to appreciate games like the first Castlevania just as much now as they would have back in the day.
And the issue here is that you're conflating popular opinion for somethings innate sense of quality.

I agree with what you're saying here. Part of why I think Simon's Quest isn't as revered now is in part because the audience has changed. I think people are less willing to give a potentially great game a chance if it doesn't "cut to the chase" fast enough for them, whereas back in the day, the game industry wasn't what it is now, designers had a lot of limitations as far as file size and such went, and so they had to do what they could with what they had to work with.

That said, I don't really understand some of the criticisms in the video. Color palette?? Really? Can we grasp at straws and fail to understand the game any further?

 
Btw, Giz, is that you? O_o

Drunk post-edit