Topic: The biggest 3D FAIL.

[Sumac]

(guy with whip, anachronistic jumble of environments, creatures from random mythologies)

What on this list wasn't in the previous games in the series?

was way too bright to be called Lords of SHADOW

If we go in that territory than some of the previous CV games didn't matched they title. Like Dawn of Sorrow for example. It wasn't that "sorrowful". But I personally don't consider this game as "Castlevania", along with AOS.

[Munchy]

What on this list wasn't in the previous games in the series?

Uh... that was the point. Those were some of the base elements of Castlevania that Lords of Shadow did have. Which made me appreciate it much more going back to it.

And, yeah, some of the newer Castlevania games aside from LoS are way too bright and happy for a traditionally action-horror series. The first two DS ones come to mind.

[Inccubus]

I think Crisis put it best when he said the best way to approach LoS is as if it were Castlevania: The Game of the Movie. It helps me appreciate it much more as a retelling that has only the very base elements of Castlevania (guy with whip, anachronistic jumble of environments, creatures from random mythologies). Which isn't to say that it's completely flawless (QTEs, wall-shimmying, and Titans suck, not to mention the game was way too bright to be called Lords of SHADOW), but I don't think it was a train wreck or anything. I hope the sequel emphasizes the horror aspect of it much more.

If LoS were the game of the movie, I'd organize a lynching for the bastard that wrote that script. Not to mention there'd be no way you'd get me to pay money to watch said hypothetical piece of Hollywood detritus.

Actually, thinking about it in those term makes me wonder if somehow Hollywood DID have a hand in LoS. The way the story was crafted makes perfect sense through the distorted, nonsensical lens of a Hollywood producer.

Wow. Looking at it this way actually makes me hate it MORE.

[Munchy]

If LoS were the game of the movie I'd organize a lynching for the bastard that wrote that script.

Pretty much. Not like good plot has ever been a Castlevania staple, but it was quite awful. Especially all the lines ripped from Star Wars.

The only things I liked about it were the concept of good/evil doubles and the plot behind the Castle.

[uzo]

[BEST]
-
- Lords of Shadow - May not be what you perfectly want in Castlevania but it's the best 3d game of them all, hands down.
-
- LoI - Kinda flat and repetitive level design, but has solid core gameplay
-
- CoD - Flat/boring level design, but still responsive controls and a variety of combat features
-
- 64/LoD - It's level design is good, but cannot save it from the huge glaring issues of; terrible camera, sluggish unresponsive controls, and it's shallow ill-designed for 3D combat
-
[WORST]

[C Belmont]

I was gonna vote for LOS but the decision to have castlevania's characters redesigned for Judgement was just so glaringly stupid that I decided to pick Judgement instead.

[Pemburu Vampir]

[BEST]
-
- Lords of Shadow - May not be what you perfectly want in Castlevania but it's the best 3d game of them all, hands down.
-
- LoI - Kinda flat and repetitive level design, but has solid core gameplay
-
- CoD - Flat/boring level design, but still responsive controls and a variety of combat features
-
- 64/LoD - It's level design is good, but cannot save it from the huge glaring issues of; terrible camera, sluggish unresponsive controls, and it's shallow ill-designed for 3D combat
-
[WORST]

Where is Judgment?

[Mortificator]

The first version of the 64 game (Castlevania) was an incomplete mess, but the improved re-release (Legacy of Darkness) was pretty good. If Konami had given KCEK enough time and simply published the second version in the first place, I think the game would have had a much better reception. Allowing all four scenarios to be played at the start would have also probably made the game more accessible.

Curse of Darkness is to Lament of Innocence as Dawn of Sorrow is to Aria of Sorrow.

Lords of Shadow was a God of War clone using the Castlevania name to prop it up.

And I haven't played enough of Judgment to pass... judgment.

[X]

Where is Judgment?

Maybe it was so bad that it didn't make uzo's list. It could be just below the [WORST] section I wager.

[Renonsgoods]

Judgement...hands down.  You all can lynch mob LoS for not being a "real" Castlevania all you want, but Judgement...even when set to decent CV music...still fails to feel anything remotely like part of the franchise.  And it's a horrible excuse for a fighting game ON TOP of that.  A fail in the truest sense of the word.  At least CoD had recognizable CV creatures and characters and some amusing gameplay elements.

I haven't played Curse of Darkness or Lament of Innocence, but I was pretty displeased with Legacy of Darkness. It was way too much like Castlevania 64 to for me to really enjoy it :S

Umm...You DO realize that Legacy of Darkness was meant to be CV64 Special Edition....right???

[VladCT]

Judgement...hands down.  You all can lynch mob LoS for not being a "real" Castlevania all you want, but Judgement...even when set to decent CV music...still fails to feel anything remotely like part of the franchise.  And it's a horrible excuse for a fighting game ON TOP of that.  A fail in the truest sense of the word.  At least CoD had recognizable CV creatures and characters and some amusing gameplay elements.

Not to mention the sloppy as hell characterization, the worst offender was Stereotypical Pettanko Maria.

[KaZudra]

What on this list wasn't in the previous games in the series?

Curse of Darkness.
It had a Guy with weapons (Beside the point) who goes around the same elements beating up Monsters which have much less mythology than the other games.
If this is a castlevania game and LoS isn't in your eyes, you should seriously start playing castlevania games instead of pretending to.

[Neobelmont]

Odd all 3D vanias did something right yet lacked something from being a true home runner yet Judgement was an odd ball cool concept but just did not work well, CV64 bad camera angles love Legacy of darkness due to the fact that the camera was fixed for the most part and control and characters, Lament on Innocence was a big chance to bring back CV in a big way but they messed up sure combat was fast,simple, and somewhat deep but the lack of platforming killed me and the jumping was very odd and of course the bland level design, Curse of Darkness the only reason I wanted to play this was Trevor I did not really like Hectors gameplay I just like whipping things, and Lords of Shadow had combat, platforming, music, and good level design, yet at the same time it could have been a little more refined while the combat was good I felt that some of the moves were just filler, yes there was platforming but not in the sense as how CV LoD did it it was not though, but rather it just felt so automatic no sense of danger, music to me was good love Belmont's theme yet the teasing with classic themes then and there shows that it could be a whole lot more memorable, and the scenery was awesome a lot of detail. I can not see how Lords is getting hated so much to me it feels very much a CV title well to me at least  

[RichterB]

Hmm. I honestly can't vote yet. I've played all the games on this list, but the qualification of "enjoyment" is tricky. One thing I know for sure is that Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness are the best 3D Castlevania games and can still be enjoyed on repeat plays longer than the others. (So those two are definitely VERY enjoyable*see end of post). Also, Lament of Innocence is better than Curse of Darkness (not to say that CoD doesn't have redeeming factors like its camera system). Judgment--does it even count? I mean, it's a side/concept/novelty game like The Arcade. It can be amusing, despite its faults. Lords of Shadow is almost just as a weird beast in some ways. And I'm tempted to say it's the most disappointing because it had next-gen resources and had a number of 3D examples to use as reference for refinement. Not to mention that it felt like a roughly 85% Hollywood distortion of Castlevania. I've tried replaying it on numerous occasions--as recently as two or three days ago, and its problems become more glaring. While I had begrudging fun with it the first time through, I find it a very constricted, boxed in game. CoD was monotonous hallways, but LoS feels like it's made of restricted set pieces that feel mechanically broken and it's hard to know where you can and cannot go. For example, the huge ogre that smashes out of the fortress. When it starts that, the game stutters and then you get into these segments where you can't move forward until it gets done with a set amount of animations, even though little goblins are attacking you and there is a two-foot-tall obstruction blocking your path that would be easy to jump over. The game is filled with these moments. It feels so gimmicky and slapdash, despite some truly excellent visual flourishes/vistas. The jumping mechanics themselves feel so ridiculously loose that they were never intended for any serious platforming based on the player's choice/skill (a key CV concept). The game just doesn't trust the player, making it almost as guilty as the fundamental arena/hallway flaws of LoI and CoD. There's absolutely nothing with the skill-based freedom and dynamic structure of, say, Level 2 of CV64. LoS is still too obsessed with overzealous and superfluous combos. I mean, it doesn't even feel as open in design as God of War.

So, all that said, the battle is between Curse of Darkness, Castlevania Judgment, and Lords of Shadow. Judgment is so niche and irrelevant that I don't think I can blame it. So, CoD and LoS are left... CoD was a few steps forward and twice as many steps backward from LoI, which doesn't bode well for it. But LoS was supposed to be the relaunch and big solution to 3D Castlevania, but rather than trying to be more in the vein of CV64/LoD, which had a lot of things working for them, it brought in several of the pitfalls of LoI/CoD and just made them seem more fancy in presentation while doing random, inconsequential name drops of Castlevania lore. On the other hand, LoS in of itself is not a terrible game when compared to everything else out there. But, if we change "least enjoy" to "most disappointing," LoS is kind of the winner by analysis. CoD was a disappointment for sure, but the fact that LoS could only get around LoI level when all is said and done is kind of sad. Still, I'll hold off my vote and think it through some more. Basically, I find the least faults with CV64/LoD, and every 3D game after those was enjoyable in their own ways the first time through, but none of them hold up or really clearly made the case for best 3D Castlevania.

*Those N64 games had a lot of positive/innovative features that served up CV in 3D:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D
(As an aside, it's worth noting that certain Beta video elements didn't get into either game like swinging over gaps with the whip; but it shows that minds were in the right place)

[Neobelmont]

*Those N64 games had a lot of positive/innovative features that served up CV in 3D:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D
(As an aside, it's worth noting that certain Beta video elements didn't get into either game like swinging over gaps with the whip; but it shows that minds were in the right place)

CV 64/LoD was THE 3D CV that sadly could have been but was not in the end Konami just fell over and over again but it feels like LoS is going somewhat in a right direction(even if some people do not like it).