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Offline TheouAegis

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2011, 06:26:33 PM »
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I'm sure the later Metroidvanias have wonderful stories and all, but the gameplay bores me. It's like many RPGs. I used to be an avid RPG player but then I realized one day, most RPGs have crappy gameplay and I'd rather just read a book instead of grinding 7 days a week just to find out what happens next in the story. As I said, I've played LoI, but that's the extent of post-SOTN I've played. The rest... Their plots didn't appeal to me. And LoS's trailers didn't appeal to me. Although I will give Cox and his team credit for an interesting story. I actually read the whole plot summary on Castlevania Wiki and was like, "wow, someone was drunk!"
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Offline Flame

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2011, 07:23:29 PM »
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If you havent played Aria, then you are missing out. It is the true successor to SoTN.
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Offline Sindra

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2011, 07:26:44 PM »
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I'm suprised this is still going, to be honest. And I'm surprised Konami or Cox gave it a response.


Cecil....you are too stuck in your ways to make OA a sizable success. You have dug your heels in regarding your "Mission Statement", and refuse to see that it is very easily seen as accusatory and aggressive towards Konami and those you see as ruining the series. Because they are. You can't see it, but they are.

I have wished you well on the venture, but unless you change how you are addressing the matter at hand (ie: learn to be more cooperative with Konami and less demanding....because they could give two shits about a fanboy crying out to get his way), you are dooming your campaign to ultimate failure.

Learn to be more fluid and learn compromise, or be prepared to lose this battle.

Offline Vrakanox

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2011, 08:14:54 PM »
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If you havent played Aria, then you are missing out. It is the true successor to SoTN.

Yeah Aria, and Ecclesia also both great metroidvanias.

Offline cecil-kain

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2011, 09:30:08 PM »
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You are presenting the argument of how It isn't a true Castlevania.

Uh huh.



All I see here is LOS ISNT CASTLEVANIA BRING BACK WHAT WE KNOW

Also its things like that. "Its lazy but at least it's castlevania..." Those hurt your image too. You are rolling over and accepting Konami's shit, to aid your point that it is better than LoS because at least it is the Castlevania you know.

Its along the same vein as the people who are totally Ok with Mega Man X being only a card and DLC skin for Zero in MvC3 after being the top polled character in almost any poll he was in, and with the massive fan demand he had. The people who go "Well it's better than nothing... Be happy with what you got."

You are accepting HD solely on he grounds that it is not LoS. It's a game that even most of the Castlevania fanbase agrees is the laziest copout ever.

"BUT AT LEAST IT'S CASTLEVANIA!" is what you say.

The problem is you hang onto the notion of what Castlevania "should be". Something different for everyone.

Also, consistency. It's "Operation Akumajo", but you talk about Castlevania. Choose one name and stick with it.

It's refreshing to see someone citing an actual example and making a reasonable argument to support their viewpoint.  Thank-you.

I can see the conclusions you're reaching for, but let me say this.

The Castlevania brand has been synonymous with Akumajo Dracula for 25 years.  When I named this group "Akumajo" it was out of reverence for the Japanese origin, but now that Cox has explicitly separated Lords of Shadow from the Akumajo brand, he's played right into our hands.  He said LoS is not an Akumajo game --which is in fact one of our group's core beliefs.  Although his "alternate universe" statements are still somewhat vague, it almost sounds like an endorsement of a multiversal approach instead of the reboot.  Although it would be wonderful to see him make more supportive statements, it's unlikely that he's even remotely in control of Akumajo Dracula's future.  Regardless of Cox's rather intriguing statements, the Castlevania name is still synonymous with Akumajo Dracula in the minds of many (if not most) of  fans...

Back to your main point... 

We had no intention whatsoever to say that Harmony of Despair is remotely superior to Lords of Shadow.  Even with apples and oranges, that's not really a reasonable argument.  The purpose of the piece you're showing here was to highlight the lazy treatment that a legitimate Castlevania/Akumajo game is actually getting --meanwhile Lords of Shadow *obviously* enjoyed the benefits of a serious investment.  If Akumajo games do continue as part of a multiversal approach, there's a very good chance that this sort of favoritism will be an ongoing issue.

Offline Dremn

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2011, 09:35:00 PM »
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Been awhile since I logged on here.

Just popping by to say I still need a good Castlevania on the 3DS Konami.

EDIT: Actually now that I read all the hub bub, I have to say you're being awfully immature about this. I think telling them ReBirth wasn't good enough was a low blow. I for one, would welcome more games like that in the series with open arms and an eager wallet.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 09:39:41 PM by OSM »


Offline cecil-kain

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2011, 10:00:38 PM »
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I'm suprised this is still going, to be honest. And I'm surprised Konami or Cox gave it a response.


Cecil....you are too stuck in your ways to make OA a sizable success. You have dug your heels in regarding your "Mission Statement", and refuse to see that it is very easily seen as accusatory and aggressive towards Konami and those you see as ruining the series. Because they are. You can't see it, but they are.

I have wished you well on the venture, but unless you change how you are addressing the matter at hand (ie: learn to be more cooperative with Konami and less demanding....because they could give two shits about a fanboy crying out to get his way), you are dooming your campaign to ultimate failure.

Learn to be more fluid and learn compromise, or be prepared to lose this battle.

I have invited members of this forum publicly and privately to assist me in developing this operation from day one.  The Mission statement was written, edited, and approved by only one person, because nobody else really stepped forward to offer any serious support.  Is it any surprise then that some personal biases may have crept in?  I'd be more than happy to negotiate serious concessions in exchange for some real leadership.  I don't mind taking the criticism --especially when I've earned it --but you can't expect BIG changes to be made for people that are pulling daggers instead of offering to help out.

Been awhile since I logged on here.

Just popping by to say I still need a good Castlevania on the 3DS Konami.

EDIT: Actually now that I read all the hub bub, I have to say you're being awfully immature about this. I think telling them ReBirth wasn't good enough was a low blow. I for one, would welcome more games like that in the series with open arms and an eager wallet.

Rebirth was made on the cheap --not as cheaply as Harmony of Deapir, but still...  Konami can and should be doing *much* better.  Settling for less is not consistent with the group's mission.

Offline Flame

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2011, 10:24:34 PM »
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Quote
The Castlevania brand has been synonymous with Akumajo Dracula for 25 years

Yes, but it is inconsistent. Thats like, "100,000 strong for bringing back Rockman Dash 3"

and then proceeding to say how much they love Mega Man Legends 2.

You see what I'm trying to say? stick with one name. Also, try for one that represents what you want. Operation Akumajo is really vague. Its basically just Operation Castlevania. The name alone says nothing to me. Also, you have to understand that In the west, Castlevania is more known than "Akumajo Dracula". The casual gamer who stumbles across the page, might be likely to support Operation: Castlevania, since he knows what that is, other than Akumajo, which he doesnt recognize. It isnt as simple as Rockman and Mega Man, its two completely different titles, and two completely different title styles. While Castlevania has that distinct castle look to it's logo, Akumajo Dracula is written in Japanese.

Either way, It's inconsistent, and not as accessible to gamers who might otherwise support the effort. (Legends fans got support from many other capcom fans who while not particularly fond of Mega man, hated how their fellow Capcom fans were treated.

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Rebirth was made on the cheap --not as cheaply as Harmony of Deapir, but still... 
There's nothing "still" about it. No buts. Rebirth doesnt reuse elements used since rondo, it is pretty much entirely original. if anything I think the bats are the same old ones. It is a completely new game in the vein of Mega Man 9 and 10, and in fact BETTER than in terms of production values. It's supposed to be a nostalgic Classicvania. not a cheap copout.

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Konami can and should be doing *much* better.  Settling for less is not consistent with the group's mission.
And this is what we are talking about. This pretentious talk about how they should be doing better, and how we should all fight for better because YOU think they should be making high end HD Castleania games.

You dont see capcom fans complaiing about not getting Maverick Hunter X2. We accept games like 9 and 10, simply because they were done well, and were a good idea for the moment. We dont go and DEMAND capcom make an HD Mega Man console game.
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Offline cecil-kain

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2011, 11:29:22 PM »
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Yes, but it is inconsistent. Thats like, "100,000 strong for bringing back Rockman Dash 3"

and then proceeding to say how much they love Mega Man Legends 2.

You see what I'm trying to say? stick with one name. Also, try for one that represents what you want. Operation Akumajo is really vague. Its basically just Operation Castlevania. The name alone says nothing to me. Also, you have to understand that In the west, Castlevania is more known than "Akumajo Dracula". The casual gamer who stumbles across the page, might be likely to support Operation: Castlevania, since he knows what that is, other than Akumajo, which he doesnt recognize. It isnt as simple as Rockman and Mega Man, its two completely different titles, and two completely different title styles. While Castlevania has that distinct castle look to it's logo, Akumajo Dracula is written in Japanese. Either way, It's inconsistent, and not as accessible to gamers who might otherwise support the effort. (Legends fans got support from many other capcom fans who while not particularly fond of Mega man, hated how their fellow Capcom fans were treated.

This issue actually came up past a point of no return.  I was looking at options to modify the group's name, but Facebook wouldn't allow changes to a community name once it surpasses 100 members --so we got caught in this exposure trap where Facebook members doing a "Castlevania" search never find us.

In terms of how the Akumajo and Castlevania names are currently used in the Mission Statement and propaganda --that may actually need some review in light of Cox's latest comments.  Ultimately though, the Castlevania name needs to be used for mainstream recognition --we are in the west after all...

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There's nothing "still" about it. No buts. Rebirth doesnt reuse elements used since rondo, it is pretty much entirely original. if anything I think the bats are the same old ones. It is a completely new game in the vein of Mega Man 9 and 10, and in fact BETTER than in terms of production values. It's supposed to be a nostalgic Classicvania. not a cheap copout.

The problem is that Rebirth was intended to be a cheap retro throwback, instead of a game that raised the bar.  Megaman 9 and 10 had much higher nostalgic value because Megaman Classic was essentially dead series at that point.  Meanwhile 2-D Castlevanias has been stuck on portables devices for over 10 years --with only only DXC outclassing SotN's overall quality.  Putting 2-D Castlevania back on a home console could have and should have been epic, but Konami didn't see it for the opportunity it was.

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And this is what we are talking about. This pretentious talk about how they should be doing better, and how we should all fight for better because YOU think they should be making high end HD Castleania games.

You dont see capcom fans complaiing about not getting Maverick Hunter X2. We accept games like 9 and 10, simply because they were done well, and were a good idea for the moment. We dont go and DEMAND capcom make an HD Mega Man console game.

Castlevania was a high end brand during its prime.  Although I can certainly respect your appreciation of nostalgic games like Megaman 9 and 10, the DXC has proven that Castlevania still has a colossal amount of untapped potential that can compete with other modern 2-D games.  Have you seen the sales for New Super Mario Bros Wii?  It's the second best-selling game on the Wii at over 22 Million sold worldwide.  Nintendo could have gone with a "Rebirth" like some 8-bit Super Mario Bros 4, but instead they decided to make a serious investment --and they ended up outselling both of the Mario Galaxy games combined.  Who would have predicted that?  Is it so far-fetched to believe that a 2.5-D Castlevania effort *might* actually outsell Lords of Shadow?  I have faith that Konami can restore Castlevania, if only they'd think outside the box and make a serious investment.

Offline KaZudra

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2011, 03:08:02 AM »
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The Over-reacting level of this thread is overly ridiculous.

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Offline uzo

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2011, 10:37:16 AM »
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It's refreshing to see someone citing an actual example

Sorry, I don't have the time to cite and correct the innumerable amount of examples individually. I gave the shortened umbrella version, which addresses the core issue that all of it stems from.

Others are doing the same, and that makes a lot of sense. It cuts to the chase and focuses on what is causing everything else.

Offline Flame

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2011, 04:21:44 PM »
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This issue actually came up past a point of no return.  I was looking at options to modify the group's name, but Facebook wouldn't allow changes to a community name once it surpasses 100 members --so we got caught in this exposure trap where Facebook members doing a "Castlevania" search never find us.
Make a new thread, and make a big post redirecting visitors to the new one. AKA start over. Start fresh.


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The problem is that Rebirth was intended to be a cheap retro throwback,

There's nothing wrong with that.

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instead of a game that raised the bar.
Why does it have to be? this is what im talking about. You must understand, Brands like Mega Man and Castlevania are in a tough spot these days because they never truly evolved into the third dimension. This can be traced back to the PS1/PS2 era. the few 3D games they made, were either bombs, or recieved poorly, or both. Both mega Man Legends games literally put Capcom in the red financially. So it was a fight to make a Legends 3, and that eventually, even that was cancelled. Mega Man X7 was a bomb because it was not only an unfinished product, but had bad decisions in it. The mixing of 2D and 3D was what pretty much broke the game.

Castlevania 64 was received poorly for basically being an unfinished product, and overshadowed by the superior 2D game released at the same time. LoI and CoD have fans, but they were both rather bland and not quite up to snuff with other games out at the time. In the end, we dont know how Konami sees them financially. They saw that 2D IGAvanias sold best, so they kept making those. Since the hardware evolved past 2D sprites, they moved to handhelds, which still used them. They made DXC. but it bombed because of the platform. So, they kept at 2D sprite based games. Judgement bombed due to the game type and art direction. Recently, they decided to allow Konami Europe work with mercurysteam on making a big budget Castlevania. To try and bring in a new crowd, they decided on a reboot, so you needed no prior knowledge going in.

If that fails, you can be assured that there WONT be another big budget Castlevania ever again for a LOOOONG time.

To tide the older fans over, they also tried to let IGA make HD, as a type I imagine, of experiment, to see how a multiplayer coop Castlevaia game would work in 2D. They also made The Adventure Rebirth, a pretty high quality 2D remake of Castlevania The Adventure, aimed especially at those who enjoyed classicvanias. it was chock full of old and beloved tunes, and not only did it LOOK great, but it played great.

Long story short, this IS their own fault, since they never properly embraced 3D, and stayed with the safe 2D. As a result, Castlevania has become not too profitable anymore. All they can sell are small 2D handheld games, sprite based games. That's pathetic, so they try to do what they can in 2D, experimenting with different things, (Co op, a Wiiware remake that doesnt really follow any particular system restrictions at all and instead tries to look like a classicvania, but with a few modern flavor available through the technology.)

But we have to support their 3D efforts better if we want anything done in HD. we have to prove to them that Castlevania is profitable in 3D/HD consoles. If they become more at ease with making HD and 3D Castlevania, then we will definitely see more things done with the Classic series eventually. Probably starting with remakes if anything.

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Megaman 9 and 10 had much higher nostalgic value because Megaman Classic was essentially dead series at that point.
So were Classicvanias.
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Meanwhile 2-D Castlevanias has been stuck on portables devices for over 10 years
because again, 3D console games have failed or been "meh" at best.

 
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--with only only DXC outclassing SotN's overall quality.
Hardly. If only because it is a 2.5D game. Otherwise, SoTN is still high quality, even today, and still outclasses most 2Dvanias that came after.

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Putting 2-D Castlevania back on a home console could have and should have been epic, but Konami didn't see it for the opportunity it was.
That's pretty ungrateful. You got a 2D classicvania, with pretty good production values, on a home console. That is far more than what we have gotten for a while. You have to give this time. Its a ladder. from 2D remake DL game, to higher fish from there.

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Castlevania was a high end brand during its prime.
So was Mega Man. Mega man is one of the videogame Pioneers. It was the first game to allow players to choose what stage they wanted in whatever order they wanted. It was also high end. Especially once it went to the SNES and PS1.

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Although I can certainly respect your appreciation of nostalgic games like Megaman 9 and 10
Dont get me wrong, i dont particularly LIKE 9 and 10, specifically because they are all about trying to imitate Mega Man 2, the now most overrated mega man game ever.  10 was far more original and did far more than 9 did, but I am right where you are with it- rather than making a new HD game, they make 8 bit rehashware, etc etc. But for the moment, it was not a bad idea. It was a sort of revival of the brand, back in classic, back to classic's roots. The problem comes when they start doing ONLY that. But in this case, there is no way for Fans to try and support 3D mega man, since we dont have something like LoS to support.   

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the DXC has proven that Castlevania still has a colossal amount of untapped potential that can compete with other modern 2-D games.

DXC was still just a 2.5D game on the PSP. It certainly can not compete with something like God of War or Call of Duty or Gears of War. 2D games are dying out, or becoming not as commonplace, relegated to DL status.

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Have you seen the sales for New Super Mario Bros Wii?  It's the second best-selling game on the Wii at over 22 Million sold worldwide.  Nintendo could have gone with a "Rebirth" like some 8-bit Super Mario Bros 4, but instead they decided to make a serious investment --and they ended up outselling both of the Mario Galaxy games combined.  Who would have predicted that?  Is it so far-fetched to believe that a 2.5-D Castlevania effort *might* actually outsell Lords of Shadow?  I have faith that Konami can restore Castlevania, if only they'd think outside the box and make a serious investment.
Nintendo also shits money. They are probably the RICHEST of any game developer.

Did you forget this?



It's not just a joke. It's practically true. they HAVE the monetary freedom to do whatever they want. Nintendo is also headed up BY an actual former game dev, unlike most.
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Offline Vrakanox

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2011, 06:20:12 PM »
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But we have to support their 3D efforts better if we want anything done in HD. we have to prove to them that Castlevania is profitable in 3D/HD consoles. If they become more at ease with making HD and 3D Castlevania, then we will definitely see more things done with the Classic series eventually. Probably starting with remakes if anything.

But what if every 3d HD game from here on out is just a continuation of the LoS timeline and the old one disappears forever. Is it still worth supporting then?

I see where you're coming from though, the most important thing is that the series lives on. I'd hate to see Castlevania end up like megaman. Support for the series in general should in theory result in new games on all platforms. But it may or may not end up like that.

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2011, 06:35:38 PM »
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Nintendo indeed puts all of their support behind their titles.  They really really dedicate their assets to their properties, from the low-budget start-ups (anything from the relatively ho-hum "Wii Music" to the very successful "Wii Sports") all the way to their beloved franchises (Super Mario Galaxy is a beautiful game, but so is New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Super Mario 3D Land), and even when they have other parties work on their titles, they give them their full support.  Retro Studios did a fantastic job with Donkey Kong Country Returns.  Capcom did a great job with The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap.  Even when things are not so successful (Team Ninja with Metroid: Other M), they still give them full support.

It's really admirable.

Konami seems to only put their money behind their "Tried-and-true Winner" series (which is only Metal Gear Solid right now, it seems).  I haven't seen them work on Elebits (lower-tier IP,) much.  They pretty much destroyed anything Hudson gave 'em, or did not give it marketing support (Adenture Island: The Beginning).  I was actually surprised at how good Lords of Shadow ended up becoming, but I'm beginning to think that that was more of a Kojima Productions proverbial Muscle support, rather than Konami really giving it support from the beginning.

And yes, I like Lords of Shadow... though I do admit it doesn't feel much like a Castlevania game, sometimes.
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Offline Flame

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Re: Konami Facebook team responding to Operation: Akumajo
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2011, 06:46:54 PM »
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Yeah. Having KP really helped it out. So did the fact that Mercurysteam was involved. It wasnt just Konami putting money into it. if it was solely a Konami budget, I doubt it would have ended up as "big budget" as it did.
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