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Offline Mooning Freddy

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My father is a racist
« on: February 07, 2012, 06:02:52 AM »
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... And it frustrates me deeply. I always knew that he is a conservative right-winger, and so was I to a certain extent, but after a conversation we had he said something that annoyed me so much that I don't think I would discuss politics with him again.
It's always been me and him disagreeing about different matters, but that time I decided to drop the bomb.
I told him I went to a convention of a certain movement which promotes tolerance and agreement between Israelis and Palestinians. He said that he is disappointed that I listened to "those leftist idiots" and I took advantage of the conversation to ask him of his opinion of the subject. He responded with a remark that was so anti-liberal and intolerant that my appreciation of him dropped substantially. 
Did you ever have dramatic arguments with members of your family? How did it end up for you?
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Offline uzo

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012, 06:17:32 AM »
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A lot of people's parents are racist. Nothing new there.

Though, would this case really be 'racist' or 'they continue to murder and plot to destroy us'-ist?

My favorites are when you talk to someone who is "democrat"/"liberal" on paper but if you spend 5 minutes talking to them they really are conservative right wingers who say they're democrat because being democrat is socially the 'right' choice in NY. Most of them don't realize it or understand the difference.

Rooting for Obama; cussing at the minorities for welfare and protesting gay marriage.

Don't tell them the truth though. They can't possibly be conservative because the right wing is "EVIL".
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 06:25:27 AM by uzo »

Offline Gunlord

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012, 09:06:47 AM »
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That's pretty insightful, Uzo. I know what you mean...I've met a lot of "progressive" people like that too. ~_~

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Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, 10:08:38 AM »
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There are many subjects that are controversial to talk about with family.

I'm hispanic, so talking about religion with family members is an ongoing battle, since the country I'm from is 95% Roman Catholic.  I have to constantly describe what 'being Agnostic' is.  Usually after the first explanation they say "So you're an Atheist" and I'm like "noooo..." and then have to explain it again.  Religion is so entwined into most of my relatives' lives, since they're Catholic (or in one case, Jehova's Witness {a religion I dislike because of their elitist attitudes and how they shun people who do not have perfect morals}).

Interestingly enough, although most are Catholic and believe in that religion, they also believe in supernatural things like the "Evil Eye" and curses.  I guess it's the leftover roots from our indigenous ancestors.

When it comes to politics, the USA's "Left" is actually centrist.  The entire spectrum for USA politics is askew; there is no left.  There's center, right, and far right.  You can tell because anytime someone adds the word "Social", or "Community" or "Unionized" to anything, people generally throw their hands up and scream 'socialist' and 'communist' and 'anti-capitalist' and 'anti-American'.  That's how askew the thing is.  Even if you're on the USA 'left', you don't mention things with those words out of fear that you'll be colored red.  In South America, however, that's where there are more "Left" states of government

I'm for:
-Separation of Church and State... but not enough to raise a hissyfit over the dollar saying "In God We Trust".
-ProChoice.   Most people who are against them are so because of their religion and its imposed Moral Compass.
-Gay Rights and Gay Marriage.
-Social programs (like Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Unemployment) and paying taxes for them.  The downtrodden in the society should have access to the basic necessities and even if I were rich, I'd still pay taxes for them... for the good of the community.
-Local Industry (there should be heavy tariffs for companies who outsource their work, and a heavy tariff on imported goods, in order to promose USA-marketed product)
-Green Energy (I see ads on CNN all the time paid for by the American Petroleum Industry, and I really think that we should be focusing our...er... 'energy'... on better sources of energy, even if there are wind farms on every hill and solar panels on every post).

So I guess I'm on the left, but these are just honest sensible approaches.  I am in an odd situation because South Americans are very religious, but at the same time very liberal (I'm not religious at all and generally am against Organized Religion of any type).  It's not like in the USA where the heavily religious are usually Republican as well.  There seems to be some kind of rationale developed, either by media or by the political groups themselves, in the USA, which sort of throws all the Atheists and Agnostics into the supposed "Left" as if we were heathens, potheads, or hippies.
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Offline Flame

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 10:27:59 AM »
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My cousin is hardcore Conservative, and he ALWAYS makes certain remark at family reunions and gets into political arguments with his brother. he literally gets red in the face. I swear one day he's going to have a heart attack. See, he thinks of himself as rich, because he has a nice, large home in New Jersey, with a large yard and an in ground swimming pool. However. He has been laid off from his previous job which pretty much afforded him the house, (and mind you he bought all that back maybe in the 80's) He has a teenage daughter, maybe around 17 I think? and a young boy, I forget the age... But maybe 5 or 6? IDK. He talks and shit and hes all over the place- who was born with a deformed heart. They had to preform reconstructive surgery on him right when he was born.

They BOTH work to make ends meet, and yet, he is this hardcore conservative who thinks hes rich, when he really isnt- is pretty racist, and has been forbidden to talk about politics during family reunions. But I mean like, hes just plain retarded conservative. My dad, who is definitely far older than him, makes some kind of commentary on Social security or health care, and gets labeled "socialist" by him. "because of his upbringing, he has socialistic tendencies"

Uh, what? really? you are going to tell the guy who has been on this earth and worked and lived far longer than you, and who actually reads the news and tkes in different sides, that he's wrong your right? it pisses me off so much.
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Offline X

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2012, 10:29:10 AM »
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To my experience I've never met a relative of mine that has ever been a racist or some other detestable braggart. I guess I should count myself lucky that my families' opinions reflect mine and all of us a quite comfortable with it. In fact when ever a positive change happens or something new comes around we embrace it and go with the flow. Unfortunately there are still many people who do not have such a luxury. To me it's really sad that they can't let go of that corrupt form of mental programming and I don't blame them for that either. You can't blame someone who was programed at birth to hate that which is different then what they know or feel comfortable with. It takes time for them to come around and most of the time they've died before ever getting the chance.
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Offline beingthehero

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, 01:33:57 PM »
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One of the disquieting things about my grandparents were/are their casual racism. My grandmother cheerfully reminisced not too long ago about my grandfather's ability to "out-Jew anyone" when it came to getting deals. One of their favorite expressions to describe nervousness was "I'm sweating like a ni**** at Lincoln's election!" It's odd, because they didn't actually seem to hate those groups, they're phrases from a time when racism was the norm. It makes you wonder how far we've actually came in a relatively short time.

Also, they along with my family and myself are hardcore Democrats.

Offline Husky

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 05:40:23 AM »
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I rarly talk to my family anymore, I had an argument with my brother over a month ago, and haven't spoken to him since, my father only calls when he wants something, and going out with him gets embaressing, as he has no filter, and what ever comes to mind he spits it out no matter how bad (meaning racist/sexist) it is..... so yeah I guess I've distanced myself from my family.

     as for the rest of my family I see them on holidays, and like Jorge My fam is roman catholic, and I'm agnostic, sooo yeah its a headache and a half, they thought joinning a dojo ment I was joining a cult, they thought karate was a waste of time, my father asked to come to my shodan test and complained most of the time my brother took photos and labled the tecniques weird things like "death blade attack" and "stabbing fingers".  now both of them make fun saying stupid things like "you'll never be the dragon warrior with out the scroll", and "hows karate mr.miyagi".

long story short (to late I know) I rarely get along with my family, and yet I still make all the nessisary appearences so they don't think that much worse of me...
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Offline X

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2012, 10:53:33 AM »
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Maybe you should draw up a set of guidelines for your family members Husky. If they ever want to be a part of your life or go to your venues then they need to be on their most professional behavior. If not, cut them out of your life entirely. Nobody needs to put up with that kinda s**t and there's now way you should willingly take that abuse laying down. Give them one chance and if they fail, it's game over for them.
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Offline Arma

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012, 06:34:43 PM »
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I don't get along with most of my family, my mother and my brothers don't take me seriously, they seem to believe I'm stupid, naive or just don't know nothing so I can't really talk with them. Our conversation never go beyond the weather and other banalities.
My father is the only one who takes me seriously, we talk about everything. He explains me things when I don't get it, teaches me stuff, correct me when I'm wrong and hardly ever scolds me. He's ma' hero XD

We don't talk much about religions, our family is not religious. He just tells me Jesus was a wise man and that his deeds didn't remain on records of history for over 2000 years without a good reason but that doesn't mean he has to go to church when he doesn't want to and worships an icon of him because that's not the legacy he wanted to leave behind. And stuff like that.
About politics he a justicialist and also admits when a politician he doesn't like says or does something he considers right, when it comes  to social manifestations he's more tolerant than I am. I don't approve when people does that and I'm more inclined to exert the law, by force if neccesary.
When it comes to sports he likes soccer and considers it a sport everyone can practice while other disciplines tend to be more elitist, I hate soccer and consider it a sport that gathers vulgar, violent, fanatical and uneducated individuals. He doesn't argue with me about that either, even when I go teasing  badly saying stuff like now they are all inside the stadium it would be great to throw a missil to exterminate them all to make the world a better place without all that pest walking on it or at least they should be sterilized, and I mean it but he laughs and even jokingly agrees sometimes ha ha

As for racism, we both are to a certain degree but we only discuss that stuff between us and consider inappropiate to share that kind of ideas , racist or not, with others since it's something private of each person.
The only thing I don't like its his excessive womanizing habits, now that he's single is not of my business but I don't like how he cheated on mom when they were still together. I always tell him people who can't keep their pants on shouldn't even  get married, they just make their own lives and their spouse's more complicated. Actually he thinks the same but fails to admit he shouln't have done that to my mom >_>
I'm glad to get along so well with my dad, he's pretty much the only one of my family I can talk to. Though that in part may be so because in many aspects I'm practically a female version of him ha ha ha
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 06:43:03 PM by Arma »

Offline Opium

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 05:08:49 AM »
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My entire family is so intolerant that there are only two people in it that speak to me.  I have 6 nieces and nephews that I've never seen, and probably never will.  I'm not permitted at family events, and am basically dead to them.  They used to be such nice happy people before they all got 'born again'.  Now they all run around all scared/angry and paranoid about the devil and the end of the world.  They weren't discriminatory at all before then.  Religion taught them to be intolerant.

Offline uzo

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2012, 05:58:22 AM »
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He just tells me Jesus was a wise man and that his deeds didn't remain on records of history for over 2000 years without a good reason but that doesn't mean he has to go to church when he doesn't want to and worships an icon of him because that's not the legacy he wanted to leave behind. And stuff like that.

That being your primary example is a little funny, since you and your father don't seem to know much about Jesus at all. You do realize Jesus was the one to say you don't have to go to church, right?

My entire family is so intolerant that there are only two people in it that speak to me.

You never say what they don't tolerate about you, just that they don't tolerate you. What is it about you they don't tolerate?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 06:08:07 AM by uzo »

Offline Arma

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 08:52:03 AM »
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My father knows a great deal about historical Jesus and a lot more than I about religions for that matter.
I only know the basics about the subject and was just explaining briefly what I remembered at the moment from some of our conversations, we don't talk that much about these things, is more like sometimes the conversation just goes there but that doesn't mean we know nothing about the subject.
And yes I do know Jesus said that, my father taught me...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 09:01:17 AM by Arma »

Offline uzo

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 10:55:10 AM »
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It sounds like a contradiction. He says Jesus is a smart guy with good ideas but he wont follow him religiously, because that mandates he goes to church. But Jesus never mandates anyone to go to church, so he isn't mandated to go in the first place. It sounds like you really don't know about Jesus when you say that, unless you meant to say something else.

Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 11:52:04 AM »
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Quote
doesn't mean he has to go to church when he doesn't want to and worships an icon of him because that's not the legacy he wanted to leave behind.

It always bothers me as a hypocrisy of Orthodox Christianity (I don't know if it's in Catholic Christianity as well because I am only familiar with the Greek/Slavic Orthodox church) that the believers worship icons of saints. Let alone the very depiction of Christ as the son of God which clearly contradicts the Jewish belief in monotheism, the worship of saints is a clear form of polytheism derived from pagan patriarchal religions.
I mean, what is more clear that that? It's said clearly in the bible, second commandment: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image,you shall not bow down to them nor serve them." Islam explains this hypocrisy when the pagans ask the Muslims whether they may use their idols (rocks) as a tool of contact with Allah. The Muslims forbid that as shirh (polytheism).
Don't get me wrong, I think people should believe whatever they want to believe. But if you're playing religion, stop making up excuses when your religion contradicts itself.
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