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Offline beingthehero

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2012, 07:06:17 AM »
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People will use any idea or philosophy to justify terrible things. It doesn't have to be religion. It can very well be economic (the great famines of the USSR in the 30's) cultural (Mao's brutal Cultural Revolution), or political (the purges in Nazi Germany and again the USSR).

Offline uzo

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2012, 08:21:56 AM »
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People will use any idea or philosophy to justify terrible things.

Truth.

The word of God is only 'bad' when imperfect humans use it for evil or change it to fit their needs. There is nothing wrong with the religion itself. Some atheists seem to ignore this truth to further their goals and support their hate. This inherently goes against the objective and logical principles of atheism.

Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2012, 09:34:00 AM »
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There is nothing wrong with the religion itself. Some atheists seem to ignore this truth to further their goals and support their hate.

I would only oppose religious beliefs and action when those are anti-liberal, i.e. excessively limit human freedom.
You probably haven't heard of that, but recently in Israel there has been a great controversy over cases of sexual segregation in the Jewish Orthodox communities. Some groups among them promote sexual segregation in public places, but that sort of behavior has gone far out of line. The Orthodox community started implementing segregated busses (i.e. men to front, women to back) and secular women who wanted to ride (public) busses through their neighborhoods were rudely ordered to move to the back of the bus. The controversy exploded after the media exposed the story of a little girl who was repeatedly harassed on the street because her clothing was not "modest" enough in the eyes of her orthodox neighbors.

Now, you may protect those people because it's their religion and the women would even accept that and believe they're free. I say, bullshit. Those people do not receive liberal education and are practically brainwashed into believing their ways are the only way to live. I do not think that kind of behavior should be tolerated by a democratic society.
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Offline X

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2012, 10:04:20 AM »
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Quote
The Holy Spirit is mentioned as the Helper (John 14:16–17). This being is mentioned as different from the Father. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." A believer in Christ thus receives the Spirit and is reconciled with God (the Father). If there's a Mother God in addition to the Father and Son, then it's no longer a Trinity since there's now Spirit, unless the Mother is the Spirit and she is the one with whom Jesus will baptize believers along with fire (Luke 3:16) upon repentance and acceptance of Christ. But there is no Mother God in Christian teaching.

Jesus himself spoke of a mother god aspect. It would be in the original scripture i.e. the Jesus scrolls. The only reason nobody's heard of it is due to it being left out of the bible or subsequently changed by the Romans, more specifically; Emperor Constantin and saint Paul. A lot of things never went into the bible that should've been in there from the start. But it was Man's arrogance that dictated otherwise. And it shames me to be a man myself knowing this.
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Offline uzo

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2012, 10:52:11 AM »
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(i.e. men to front, women to back)

Jews treat their women like blacks?

Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2012, 11:30:59 AM »
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Jews treat their women like blacks?

Ultra-Orthodox Jews. Not all of them, but it's becoming more widespread. Women are required to dress in a modest way (long skirts and sleeves). The way they explain it, it's for their own good (duh) because otherwise they would arouse sexual desire, which is sinful. Furthermore, Orthodox men are not allowed to listen to female singing, because that, too, arouses sexual desire. The public segregation is just an intensification of this logic.
One can understand why this kind of beliefs are unacceptable by feminists. That logic clearly presents women as vixens whose very presence may disturb men. As I said, not all people in the Orthodox communities support segregation, the problem is that those who disagree usually keep silent.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 11:32:58 AM by Drunken Freddy »
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Offline Abnormal Freak

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2012, 01:40:16 PM »
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Not listening to female singers because that arouses... That's pretty extreme. :p So is not allowing a woman to dress beautifully, although I personally wish more women in the States at least would dress more modestly.

There are certain moral truths that I believe should be upheld by all people whether they're of a specific faith or not, but pushing certain beliefs on others such as the issue with the segregated buses strikes me as something that really ought not to be done. That is, for people who aren't of that faith: why should they be expected to live by and adhere to that?

For religious people, though, limiting oneself is an essential part to just about any religion. You choose not to do things because they're either immoral or do not lift up others. Christianity is much about self-restraint, of limiting oneself, choosing not to do certain things which are spelled out as sins or which whether sins or not may be a stumbling block to those who may see them as such, and thus abstaining from those things. It's living for God over pursuing what we naturally want, because as Christian doctrine teaches, we are all born in sin, wicked by default, and will have many sinful desires. But, like I said, with the exception of specific moral truths that everyone ought to adhere to (not committing murder is an obvious one), godly lifestyles shouldn't be expected of those who are not believers, and forcing them to live according to ideals they don't personally hold really does nothing good.

As for discussing religion... Hey, other people were doing it first, so I jumped in. :p
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 01:42:20 PM by Abnormal Freak »
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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2012, 01:59:19 PM »
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Well, not all Christians believe in the doctrine of Original Sin, o beauteous Abnormal Freak.

That said, on the one hand, I sympathize with you about the bus thing. On the other hand, why go on a bus filled with Ultra-Orthodox Jews in the first place? Those people mainly keep to themselves, and thus, ought to be avoided, given their strange beliefs. And other Jews from other denominations feel the same way, it seems. Many problems like this could be avoided just by steering clear of extremists. Personally, if I see a bus filled up with humorless-looking people in odd costumes, I'm takin' the next one.

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Offline Abnormal Freak

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2012, 02:07:08 PM »
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Y'all seen Brüno? Sacha Baron Cohen at one point walks around Jerusalem in a really, uh, chic version of the typical Hasidic garb, and is chased down by an Orthodox Jew in the streets. According to Baron Cohen, he strongly believes that the guy and a couple others who followed the chase would have killed him, and he ran away shouting (in Hebrew), "Stop! I'm a Jew!" It's pretty outrageous. ;)

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2012, 03:54:55 PM »
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Crazy, crazy, crazy. ;o

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Offline Opium

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2012, 05:30:28 PM »
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Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2012, 06:50:20 PM »
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The reason 'racism' gets coupled together with religion is because a lot of religions have ties to the race/nationality within.  Crude examples would be middle easterners with the Jewish or Islam religions, etc.  Another reason 'racism' was used, albeit incorrectly, is when it was coupled with prejudice, such as prejudice toward non-religious people and towards alternate lifestyles such as homosexuality.

So I suppose the topic should've been 'my father is an intolerant person'... but that's not as catchy as the topic used. ;)

This topic is now about all types of intolerance.
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Offline Opium

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2012, 07:46:05 PM »
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The reason 'racism' gets coupled together with religion is because a lot of religions have ties to the race/nationality within.  Crude examples would be middle easterners with the Jewish or Islam religions, etc.  Another reason 'racism' was used, albeit incorrectly, is when it was coupled with prejudice, such as prejudice toward non-religious people and towards alternate lifestyles such as homosexuality.

So I suppose the topic should've been 'my father is an intolerant person'... but that's not as catchy as the topic used. ;)

This topic is now about all types of intolerance.

I think that racism and religion go hand in hand because they both do the same thing for people: make them feel better about themselves.  People seek to protect their egos in every way possible.  Saying that another race is inferior is a great way to make you feel better about your own, particularly because you don't have to DO anything to prove it.  You simply ARE better, regardless of your actions, because god loves you more and made you better than them.  Racism pads an insecure ego in the exact same way that kids pick on each other to feel better about themselves. 
I don't think that the tie between racism and religion has so much to do with how different races or ethnic groups are more or less likely to belong to different religions.  I think people use religion to JUSTIFY racism, just as they use it to justify a billion other irrational viewpoints - and that's ultimately how they are related IMHO.

Just look at the greatest example of what's wrong with racism: the enslavement of people.  People quoted the bible and it's hundreds of passages justifying slavery to feel right about it.  Hell, mormons actually believe that africans have dark skin because they lived a sinful past life, so god cursed them with dark skin.

My family is very very racist, but they didn't used to be.  Only after they found religion did they become that way.  They actually view tolerance of minority races as an expression against their religion, and that's not uncommon.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 07:55:29 PM by Opium »

Offline uzo

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2012, 08:12:15 PM »
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because god loves you more and made you better than them

If you're going to go through the trouble to start attacking a religion, you could at least take the time to at least learn the BASICS of that religion. It seems you couldn't be bothered to do even that.

Remember that thing I just said above about irrational bashing and atheist hate? Good job being the prime example here, in the intolerance thread of all places.

Offline Opium

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Re: My father is a racist
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2012, 08:45:52 PM »
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HUH ?  I didn't even attribute that statement to any religion in particular.  I haven't even used the word 'atheist' either, so that's another assumption on your part.  As long as you're mentioning atheists, studies show that they know more about religion than religious people do - but atheists already knew that, just watch debate after debate where religious people demonstrate their ignorance about their own faith.  If you're gonna get offended, at least get your facts straight.
There are many people who actually believe that god loves them more than other people, that's just plain true - so don't get all bent out of shape if someone points it out.
Besides, how does that statement even demonstrate a lack of knowledge about something? It's just stating a fact.

Remember that thing I just said above about irrational bashing and atheist hate? Good job being the prime example here, in the intolerance thread of all places.

If you're going to call someone out for being intolerant of intolerance, then I guess we're all hypocrites who would be speaking german right now if such logic made any sense.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 08:56:59 PM by Opium »

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