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Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #120 on: March 16, 2013, 06:21:15 PM »
-1
Part 2:
Cornell, who initially was invisioned as close range, melee character, have nothing to do with martial arts in this game. At least during the gameplay - in the intro he quickly dispacthes several Skeletons with few cool moves. The only remain of his original gameplay is his idle pose, during which Cornell goes into fighting stance. As all characters in CV64 / LOD, he has two attacks. His primary attack is some sort of energy projectile (energy scythe), that can hit enemies on long distances and rather powerful. His secodary attack is a claw strike, probably another remain of his melee days. In everything else, Cornell plays just like Reinhardt and Carrie, save for the one thing: he can transform into humanoid werewolf. Which is...less spectacular, then you can imagine. It makes Cornell more durable and stronger, to the point of it being game breaking feature, but it's not really something awesome. Cornell is a bit faster and lighter then Reinhardt. His energy scythe is very powerful and, after upgrade, it can make a quick work with regular enemies and bosses.

One of the main new things about LOD, is that most of the stages were redesigned and there were few new stages added. However, it created one important problem. What was the strongets point of the stages in the CV64? Their structure and a way how they attempted to feel like a real locations, that could actually make sense, given the circumstances. Sometimes, such structure severely hampered gameplay (nothing game breaking, though), making levels feel too short and player sometimes found himself facing strange design decisions. However, with all strangeness it was a bold attempt, to make 3D areas in Dracula's Castle make some sort sense. That was one of the things, that made this game standout from many other 3D action and even some other Castlevanias and added enormous amount of atmosphere. In LOD, this "make sense structure" was mostly sacrificed in order to make levels more interesting from the gameplay point of view. However, it resulted in, previously atmospheric levels, stages feeling now as in any other action / platforming game. Also, most of the levels were made longer. In some cases, it made levels, that felt too short in CV64, feel just right in terms of length. However, sometimes, developers made stages longer, seemingly just for the sake of making them longer, with completely unneccesary backtracking and generally stupid decisions. All of those changes, resulted in heavy loss of atmosphere and feeling, that I was playing generic 3D platformer, with generic protagonist, that had nothing to do with Castlevania.

Stage 1: Foggy Lake.
Cornell's sense of smell led him to the Ghost Ship, where game starts. Personally I always was against Ghost Ship stages in Castlevania games, because in most of the cases they feel really generic and didn't add up anything to the Castlevania experience (cue CV3 and Rondo). This Ghost Ship is not exception to the rule. Ghost Ship part of the level is too short and didn't really feel very interesting. In the begining of the stage, player must kill LizardMen and then moving platform will appear for player to climb onto the deck. After some manipulations with rotating masts, Cornell finally acquires Deck Key and can enter inside the ship. After small corridor, piled with enemies, Cornell will end up in cargo hold. Almost immediately ship will be attacked by the Water Dragon, who will make a big hole in the side of the ship. Water starts flooding the hold, however, it seems player have nothing to worry about, since water seemingly stays on the same level, no matter how much time you spend in there. Annoying LizardMen will try to stop Cornell from escaping the hold. After spectacular cutscene with ship sinking, Cornell must proceed to the ruined bridge, using floating wreckage as platforms. Bridge ends up with the door, that lead to another level, but when you think you can escape, suddenly...boss of the level appears! Water Dragon is not the same beast as in Rondo or CV3, but he is very big, powerful and annoying foe. He can grab Cornell and throw him on the ground. Also, he can spit into the water, which creates giant explosions. They can throw Cornell in the air. Besides, Water Dragon can spit on the bridge small purple blobs, that chase player. They do not cause any damage, but, if Cornell steps on one of them, he will stuck, giving Water Dragon chance to grab him. In the end of the battle, Dragon can do another special attack - he goes under water and reemerges by crashing part of the bridge. Defeating this boss is hard (at least here KCEK stayed consistent). The main problem is that Water Dragon always moves back and forth, resulting in auto-targeting system going insane - one moment he is in the range, another - he is out of it. Sometimes, if you throw scythe, when Dragon is targeted, by the moment it should impact him, he already will be slightly out of range of the projectile. Another problem is camera (yep, again). It seems it can't decide what angle it should take - sometimes player will see the whole battlefield from the side, as in 2D game, and sometimes camera moves to show bridge from the side and the air. As an always, camera changes its position without any warning, so player can end up being rather confused. It's understandable, what developers wanted to do here - they wanted camera to trace player's movement, but eventually they screwed up a bit with this. The best way to kill Water Dragon is to use some subweapon - Axe will do nicely, however, aforementioned problem with autotargeting affects it too. Nice thing about this battle is that after you kill Water Dragon it doesn't magically explodes into nothing - its corpse stays afloat in the water. All in all, this level is not very interesting and feels like a filler.

Stage 2: Forest of Silence.
The whole location was completely redesigned. Instead of being straightforward, it became a mess of multiple paths and backtracking. Whereas in CV64 Forest felt like a location where you can move freely, now its narrowed to the several obvious paths and doesn't feel so big and spooky. Also, added music takes away another bit of the atmosphere. WereTiger still makes his appearance as well as WereWolf subboss, who now received status of mandatory boss in the level (as you remember in original CV64 he appeared in this level just as powerful enemy and you could simply escape from him). There is slightly annoying puzzle, where you need to rise two platforms and jump to the other side of the pit, before they will descend back into earth. Instead of several big crypts, there are now only two semi-ruined crypts, which you can access by grabbing edge of the ruined wall and climbing into the building. The enemies are all famlliar faces: Skeletons, Exploding Seletons and LizardMen. However, few new enemies were added - Zombies and Fleamen. Zombies disappear in the puddle of blood, when killed. Fleamen is more annoying, then dangerous, since most of the time they tend to jump on one place and can be killed by Cornell, even before they move to attack. As in original Forest, almost near the start of the level, you will be greeted by boss of the stage Giant Ape Skeleton. He now has two additional attacks. First, he charges electricity through his bones and jumps on the earth, creating powerfull shockwave. His second new attack immediately follows after shockwave: he starts chasing player and then bows his head to the ground and breathes poison cloud from his mouth. This attack have wide range, so you'd better escape from his as far as possible. As in CV64, after first battle he'll escape, and only after the second match he will be destroyed for good. Both new attacks doesn't make him more dangerous, but does make this fight feel more dynamic. Good boss battle aside, new Forest of Silence is boring and slightly messed location. It doesn't impress with its atmosphere anymore and feels like it was created with one purpose - too make player stay longer in it.

Stage 3: Castle Wall.
This level is one of the primary examples of how developers were ready to go to any length to make the game longer. As soon as Cornell arrives to the wall, he will be greeted by Ortega, who make some cryptic statements and then dissappears. While the whole structure of the level is generally the same, the way you must complete it slightly different and worse at that. Your objective is the same - open two gates. Two doors, that were leading to the two towers with mechanisms to open gates are now time dependent. Left door can be opened only during the night, right door can be opened only during the day. The catch is you must complete right tower TWICE to exit the level.
- go into the right tower and go to the top. Enemies and obstacles are the same as in CV64.
- on top of the tower you will fight Skeledragon Twins, though this time you have a very good camera angle, helping you to defeat them. The tactic is the same as in CV64.
- after you defeat them, don't bother to turn the lever - thanks to Ortega the whole mechanism is screwed up now and instead of opening one gate, mechanism will open one gate, while simulatenously closing another. Just jump to the bottom of the tower via ruined floors. On the bottom you must find lever.
- go into left tower and go to the top of it. As in case with right tower, enemies and obstacles are the same as in CV64. On top of the tower, turn the lever, closing both gates.
- now go the top of the right tower again, put lever to its place and use it to open both gates.
- jump down and exit the level.
Overall, this level is primary example of lesson in dragging time, without any comprehensible reason.

Stage 4: Villa.
Oh...Villa. The best and the most memorable level of the Castlevania 64, here was turned into pure nightmare, because of the developers desire to make it as long as possible. It is still puzzle heavy, but this time, it is, also, very very annoying and stupid.
- it starts the same in the CV64: you fight 6 Cerverus enemies in a row.
- courtyard with fountain is the same as in CV64, but in order to rise platform to get to the top of the fountain, you must activate mechanisms in the gravestones in specific order. This time you NEED to get to the top of the fountain, because it is the crucial part of the quest. There is nice new lense flare effect added, when you look at the fountain at certain angles.
- as soon as you get into mansion you will be attacked by vampire villager. This time it's a proper boss fight, because vampire has lifebar (in CV64 - he didn't).
- pick up archives key in the vase on the second floor. You can't access Rose Garden yet, through the door on the second floor.
- proceed to servant's room on the first floor and to the long corridor in the Garden Maze. Here you will be attacked by Skeletons on Motorcyles with Gattling Guns!! (as if before they weren't ridicolous enough). Go through the door on the left and turn left. At the top of the watch tower pick up Crest Half B.
- somewhere in the Garden Maze find Rose Garden key (it's in one of the torches somewhere near the area surrounded by fence).
- Return back to the mansion. Go through the Rose Garden and to the second floor of the mansion. In the room where you met Charlie Vincent in original game, you will meet Henry Oldrey, who seemingly in the process of conflict with his wife, about drink. Sadly this time this conflict directly involves you, since oldman Oldrey wants to drink not wine, but your blood. Boss battle ensues. He fights the same way as the other vampires, however, you can have hard time battling him since you're in rather small room.
- after defeating him, go to the next door. There you meet Oldrey's wife, who  promisses to give you Copper Key, if you save her son, Henry, who is somewhere in the maze.
- on the way to the Maze entrance you can go look into the Archives. In CV64 you picked up important key here, but in LOD you will find Oldrey's diary, where he describes how it's cool to be a vampire. Also, this note describes the order in which you need activate mechanisms in the courtyard.
- go to the Garden Maze entrance (meet Renon). You will find Henry in the very same place, where you have found Malus in CV64 (first turn on the left after entrance). However, unlike CV64 it's not a child who will guide you to the exit. It is you who must guide child this time around. And very annoying escort mission commences. Henry have his own lifebar, so you must not let him die. Also, both of you will be chased by Frankenstein Gardener (this time without Dogs happily), who apparently targets only Henry. You can temporarily shut him down with several shots in his head. Unlike CV64, Maze have some enemies here and there, so be careful. The main gripe about this mission is that Henry have incredibly stupid AI. If you leave him just a bit behind, he will stay on one place calling for help, even, if you directly in his field of vision!! Also, Henry is not capable of running fast. Because of it the whole escort mission looks like this: make several steps ahead, wait for Henry, wait for Gardener, shut down Gardener, make few steps ahead, wait for Henry, wait for Gardener...e.t.c. It turns something, that should be very nervous part of the game, where you constantly go: "oh, shit!! I must run fast from Monster and save child" into boring chore. Besides you don't have a map of the Garden and bound to make few wrong turns in dead ends, making this mission even more tiresome. Eventually, you must lead Henry to the same exit, that Malus used in CV64.
- after all of this, return to the mansion, receive Copper Key from Oldrey's wife.
- go into the Rose Garden and wait until dawn and you will see, small patch of the white roses, near the central column, turning red. Go to that part of garden and pick Thorn Key.
- return to maze. Find closed area surrounded by fence. Go inside and pick up Rose Brooch in one of torches.
- return to the mansion and go to the courtyard. Rise the platform by pressing mechanisms in graves in certain order (Oldman Oldrey grave, his wife's grave, his son's grave, nameless grave). Go to the top of the fountain and put Rose Brooch into shiny thing on top of it. You will receive Crest Half A.
- return to the Garden Maze (I know, I know) and open the door on the right of the first watchtower. Go along the channel, climb into the bridge and you will find  entrance to the Crypt. Use Crests to open the door and go down the ladder.
- in the crypt you will fight Gilles de Reis himself (with cool camera close up on him). The battle is not eventful, since Gilles fights as any other vampire enemy in the game. I think he is even slower, then regular vampire enemies. After you defeat him, Actrise will appear. Vampire and the witch exchange several cryptic lines and then dissappear, promting Cornell to ask: "Who are you people?" I think this line should be said in nonchalant monotone.

Overall, what was once the highlight of the game, have become ridicolous quest, where you mostly do a lot of needless backtracking and where some of the puzzles...are not very obvious, to say the least. And another problem with this level - developers changed red carpets in the mansion to the green ones. Also, mansion looks like it have some green tint in the air. It made previously visually interesting location (especially during daytime) boring and plain looking. Mansion in CV64 looked bright, which heavily contrasted with its inhabitants and created interesting atmosphere. Mansion in LOD looks like generic creepy mansion. After this stage, all levels are (re)designed with only gameplay in mind, throwing away any structural logic, that was apparent in CV64.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:44:46 PM by Sumac »

Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #121 on: March 16, 2013, 06:25:16 PM »
-1
Part 3:
Stage 5: Outer Wall.
It's one of the new stages in the game. Here you must to do a lot of platforming to get to the elevator, which rise you to the top of the wall, where you'll fight new boss - Harpy. She is actually pretty simple, if you use lock on feature and subweapon, like Axes. Her most dangerous attacks is when she catches Cornell in her claws and throws him to the floor. You can hit her with energy scythe most of the time. Overall, this level is boring and uneventful. A very obvious transition level.

Stage 6: Tower of Art.
Another new level in this game. This one is more interesting, then previous, though not without it's fair share of flaws. The whole level separated into three distinct parts, each with its own objective. First part of the stage looks like a big hall of the museum. In here, player must visit two rooms - one on the right and one on the left. Each door is timebased - to open door on the left, it's must be daytime, to open door on the right - nighttime. Door on the left leads to the small room with Knight Armors and more three timebased doors. Two of them lead to the small rooms with goodies. Another - leads to the big hall with giant railway in the middle and multiple wooden platforms attached to the walls. Your objective here is to get to the other end of the room, using platforms and railway. However, there is a big minecart, that rolls down on the railway every several seconds. You must get on the railway and each time, when you see minecart aproaching, jump on the nearby wooden platform. While it's not the most complicated thing in the world, it's a bit hard to do for several reasons. First, it's hard to determine distance to the platforms. Sometimes you think there are right in front of you, but there is actually more distance to them. Second problem is the camera. For whatever reason, if you climb on the platform and try to search recess on the wall near it, camera will move to show the room from the side where minecart comes from (basically from the top of the room). With such camera position it is next to impossible to see minecart, when it appears on the railroad. Worse yet, you can't change camera position in this place, no matter what you do. In this case the only way is to die and start the whole section from start. So much, for fixing camera issues...Anyway, when you come to the end of the room, there is another timebased door, which contain Key 1 for the first section of the Tower of Art. You can return to the begining of the room, simply by riding minecart all the way down. Just don't forget to jump from it, when it will be near wall.

The room behind door on the right is pretty much the same as the one on the left. It also contains two Knight Armors and timebased doors, two of them, predictably lead to the rooms with goodies. Third, leads to the big room, similar to the room with minecart. However, in this room your objective is simplier, you must jump on the moving platform and ride to the end of the room, while dodging flamethrowers. It is very simple to do and there is no issues with the camera, as far as I was able to understand. In the end of the room, there is the room with the second key to the Tower of Art. To return to the start of the section, just ride moving platform back. Now, the whole thing is rather simple and entertainment, but...why the hell each door in this section should be timebased!? What is the meaning of this? If you don't have Sun / Moon Cards you will need to wait until appropriate time of the day (which would have been incredibly annoying). However Knights in both rooms always give you Sun / Moon Cards after their defeat. So, basically, you have unlimited supply of the time changing cards and multiple timebased doors. It leads to the fact, that you will spent some time in this level to change time back and forth. You want to get in the room on the right? Change time for a night. Need to go to the next one, that is right behind the previous door? Change time for a day. The whole thing pretty much screams: "we've run out of ideas how to make game longer, so we'll make incredibly stupid non-puzzle thing, forcing player to sit through the menu and change time five times in TWO MINUTES". I maybe don't understand much in the level creating, but this is not a good design. It's annoying and drag time, serving absolutely no purpose whatsoever, except for...dragging time.

OK, now you have two keys and can leave to the second part of the level. Second part looks even more like museum, though, not very detailed. Here you must climb to the top and get to the other side of the room, using narrow rope. Two big swinging chandeliers can push you from the rope. But it's unlikely, that it happens. This room have two save points - one on the bottom of the room, another, somewhere closer to the rope. I think it's a bit too much, since the whole section is rather simple and short.

Third section even simplier, than previous one. You must get to the other end of the room by using small bridge, which occupied by big minecart going back and forth. There are multiple Bone Towers shooting fireballs at you. It's a simple section to complete, because minecart moves slowly and Bone Towers have lousy aim.

When it comes to design, this place is rather nice, though, ultimately doesn't leave very big impression. When it comes to the gameplay: it's good, provides variety of challenges, but doesn't offer anything significantly new and in the case with timebased in the begining, really feels like a puzzle.

Stage 7: Tower of Ruins.
Another new level and this time it's really interesting. The whole place stylistically resembles some generic egyptian catacombs. It's also divided into the three sections. In the first section, you find yourself in a labirynth. It consists from multiple rooms connected to each other. You must find three switches and step on them to open exit to the second part of the level. This place is simple to complete, since in some rooms there is a map, where you can see your location. Also, labirynth is actually pretty small and rooms with switches are marked on the map as darkened squares. Rooms themselves come in different flavours. Some contain enemies (Skeletons, Fleamen, Knights), others have spikes rising from the floor, but the most dangerous rooms are ones with collapsing floor. If you are not careful, then you will fall to the dungeon and will spent some time to get back to the main part of the labirynth. In order to not let it happen, you must walk only near the walls in suspicious empty rooms.

In the second part of the level you must press two switches to rise platforms to exit the room. To do that, you must run and jump on the multiple platforms and small bridges, scattered throughout the whole room. Main problem here, is that aside from bridges and platforms, everything in this room shrouded in darkness and sometimes it's hard to understand, where do you need to go. Also, some tiles in the bridges collapse and there is debris falling from the ceiling. Though, all things considered, it is not hard section to complete.

And finally in the third part of the stage you must play choosing game between two rising columns. When you step into this room, set of two columns will rise from the ground. If you jump on the wrong column, it'll collapse, killing you. If you step on the right one - you'll be able to get to the higher platform and the next set of columns will rise. It's fairly simple task, because good and bad columns never change places. You can remember, which columns are safe, by zodiac sigh engraved on it. Safe columns are: right, right, left, right, left, left. After that you can exit this place.

Overall, this level is very entertaining, but it has big flaw. Not only it doesn't look very much like Castlevania level (it's more similar to something from Indiana Jones), but it also completly destroys suspension of disbelief about Castle structure. Not that there were a lot of it in the first place. It's a nice level, but like some other stages in the game it doesn't have neither atmosphere of the CV64 levels, neither spirit of the Castlevania.

Stage 8: Tower of Science.
Pretty much the whole level was redesigned and the only similar part to its CV64 incarnation, is the begining, where you need to jump around tower on conveyor belts, while dodging electricity and boxes with spikes. Interior design of the Tower was completely changed. Now, instead one big room with several corridors surrounding it, insides of the Tower of Science separated into several sections, numbered from "I" to "VI". The whole stage is completely linear and there is no backtracking. You need to find only one key in the Section V for the Section VI, which is the boss room. In the Section V, you need to jump on the platforms, while dodging semi-homing shots from multiple guns. Your main objective here is to get to the end of the room, where the key located on the platform. If you end up pushed from platform by enemy fire, you will not die, but you'll need to start this section from the beginging. In another room you need to escape bullets from machine guns, by hiding behind shields. By the way, turrets were redesigned. Now they can hide under the floor and their gun is lower, so you can only jump from their fire and you can't approach them by crouching.

Boss of the level is a big Security Crystal, which seemingly is a power source of the whole tower. It is surrounded by five guns, each located on the corner of the pentangular pit. Each gun use different attack: some fire bullets, like normal guns in the level do, others fire single shots, that explode and the most dangerous guns fire laser beams, which follow player. In the begining of the battle, Crystal is surroudnded by force field. To shut it down destroy any gun in the room. After you do this, camera, without any warning, will move behind Crystal to show, that it is now without protection. This happens so suddenly and the angle is so awkward, that it's easy to lose track of what is going on the screen. Happily, after few second camera, usually, returns to the normal position. Guns will inifinitely respawn, so don't bother with destroying them all. To destroy Crystal you'd better to destroy only two closest guns to it. Run to the Crystal (but don't get to close to it) and fire energy scythes. If you come too close to the Crystal, all guns in the room will simulatenously aim at the Cornell. The best way to destroy crystal is to use some long range subweapon. Axe is recommended. Overall, gameplay in this level is fun, but since its mostly about dodging fire from different guns and turrets, it reminds me more about Contra rather than Castlevania. Boss battle also feels more like something from Contra game.

Stage 9: Tower of Duels.
This level was, also, completely redesigned. In CV64 this stage was designed as multiple columns positioned near the walls connected by small platforms and islands, with multiple spinning blades between them. This version is completely different. Gone the whole idea of rised columns. Now this level take place mostly on the same height and only begining have something similar to the original version. You first opponent is the WereJaguar, who is more careful, than his CV64 incarnation. After jumping on some crumbling islands, Cornell will reach small island, where he will fight WereWolf. He is, also, smarter, than in CV64 and usually attacks only on certain range, which makes him more dangerous. Jump over him and attack, when WereWolf is busy with his combo. You have plenty of space to use in this battle. Then Cornell must proceed through the row of dangerous blades, each one can push him into the deadly waters. After climbing on the carpeted rump you will fight WereBull. In this fight, battlefield surrounded not by cage, but by wall of fire, so you have even more limited space than usual. WereBull have the same tactic as in CV64 - he does two type of charges - one instant and another with little preaparation. Both are even more dangerous now, since he can push Cornell into the firewall. Happily there is no ceiling, limiting your height, so jump away from him as much as possible. After another row of deadly blades you will fight final boss of this level - WareWolf. This incredibly deformed werebeast is said to be enhanced by Dracula's magic. In this battle floor partially consists from grill with fire burning under it. While you can stand on the grill, it will give you some damage, so always be careful where you steping on. As for WareWolf - he is rather slow, but very powerful. However, he has one widerange attack, that can be exploited. When he is on some distance from you, he will usually does stomp move, which will create small shockwave. After each strike by energy scythe WareWolf will be pushed a little bit further. Choose your position on the edge of the grill, and throw scythes at the boss. If you're lucky, then after few shots he will be pushed far away enough, so his shockwaves will not be able to reach you anymore. But despite that he will keep doing them. At this point all you need to do is to stand on one place and throw scythes at him.

While the whole level become significantly harder, it lose a bit of the uniqueness, that made it stand out in CV64. It have become more generic, wihtout multiple towers theme. In CV64 it was easier to complete (while harder to navigate), but it was more fun, I think, and more varied.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:47:27 PM by Sumac »

Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #122 on: March 16, 2013, 06:26:18 PM »
-1
Part 4:
Stage 10: Tower of Execution.
And another completely changed stage. Original was pretty simple yet atmospheric and felt like 2D level brought into 3D game. In LOD version of the stage, creators took full advantage of the 3 dimensions and make this place longer and more varied. Like Tower of Science, it's once again separated into several parts. Each part introduce its own set of traps and in the final part all of them used together. It's pretty much 101 on how you must design good platforming levels. For all of the good, that changes made for this level, it's feeling more generic and Indiana Jones like, rather than creepy place in Castle of the Dracula. Besides, as pretty much with all other redesigned levels, it have stopped making sense as location inside of the Castle.

Stage 11: Tower of Sorcery.
As was the case with other Towers, this one is redesigned. What makes it stand out from other LOD towers, that it become shorter instead of longer. Also, it's lost some of the background flare, like glowing stars and crystals of multiple colours. Now, it's more reminds of some ice world, rather than crystal world. Also, gone crystal swicthes, and the whole level is more linear and less confusing, then original version. In the middle of the level, you must jump on the platforms floating around the column, which is can be hard to do, because of the "distance problem". There are also some new obstacles. Besides useless Icemen, this level have new enemies - crystals that shoot lasers at you. They can be dangerous, since their lasers can push Cornell from the platform and into the abyss. Happily they can be destroyed with one well places shot. There are, also, floating crystals, that emit electricity. They usually positioned between platforms, making jumping more dangerous task. Overall, this place become more dangerous, but less interesting. There is no sense of overwhelming scale. Original version was almost completely pure platforming heaven, but this version is more in line with the other stages in the game - a lot of non-confusing platforming with some enemies.

Stage 12: Room of Clocks.
As in CV64 this stage consists from single room with save crystal and contract, and a battlefield, where you will fight your rival. In case of Cornell - it's Ortega. Before the fight, Ortega will use Dracula's force to power up and transform into giant Chimera-like creature with three heads of the lion, goat and snake. You know, for someone who wants to defeat his rival in combat, wouldn't it make more sense to resort to a honest battle tactic, instead of transforming into monster three times the size of his enemy? But, Castlevania logic, I guess. Anyway, now Cornell must deal with the giant beast, that have several damaging attacks and ability to fly.

Make note here: all Chimera's attacks are telegraphed. Before doing anything he will flash the colour corresponding to the color of his attack. Blue for attacks of the lion head (claw swipe, jumping attack and bite, which usually follows jump). Red for the aerial attack of the goat head. Green for the poison spit of the snake head. It is necessary to use lock-on feature in this battle. Otherwise Chimera will often be out your field of vision, making surprising attacks. The most dangerous attacks of the beast are the blue ones. Claw swipe and jumping attack, during which Chimera tackle Cornell on the ground. Later, Chimera will receive another attack - he will be able to take Cornell into its teeth and throw him to another part of the arena. All those attacks can do heavy damage and, if you hit by the claw swipe, Chimera can do another one, just when you getting up, damaging you even further. By using Lock On, you can always see, what Chimera will do and escape from the danger. Green poison spit attack by the snake head is very easy to avoid, since it have limited range. Besides, during it, Chimera stands still for several seconds and you can use this opportunity to throw several scythes into its snake head. As no surprise, usually it is the head, that will be killed first. Aerial red attack by the goat head covers a lot of ground and can be hard to avoid. It doesn't deal big damage, but have special feature - if Cornell hit by it, then right and left will exchange places (i.e you will run right, when pressing left and vice versa). It doesn't affect up and down though, and while it can be uncomfortable, it's not critical for this battle. Just run away from monster, until effect of this attack will wear off. As soon as Chimera will lose it's goat and snake heads, it will receive jump and bite attack, mentioned earlier. Now, just watch what boss is doing and stay away from it. After Chimera jumps at Cornell, move away and throw energy scythe. Chimera will go down pretty fast. While this boss can be frustrating, it's not really that hard and more tiresome, since you need to run around a lot. Sadly, in this battle you can't aim to the "main head" of Chimera, to kill it faster. You will need to kill all three heads to defeat the boss.

After being defeated, Ortega will return to his default form and lose control of Dracula's powers inside of him. To avoid blowing up in the Cornell's face Ortega jumps from the roof and promptly explodes. It is the only smart thing, that bastard have done throughout the game. Now return to the Room of Clocks, save and proceed to the final level.

Sage 13: Clock Tower.
While Clock Tower was redesigned, it's not immediately apparent, since the first two sections you visit, are almost identical to its CV64 version. The real differences start from the third part of the level and onward. Third section of the Clock Tower is completely different. It's a big room separated into two halves by a large gap in the middle. Your first objective here is to find key to open the door leading to the small elevator. Elevator allows you to get to the another half of this room, where you need to jump on the rotating towers while avoiding flamethrowers. Then you need to run on some gears and cross through the whole room by using long rotating cylinder. On the other end you will find more flamethrowers, key in the torch on the right and exit from the room on the left. In the next section, you will need to find another key to open the door on the left. Happily it is right behind the door, that leads to giant clock face - one of the most impressive locations in the game. There is a lonely torch, that for some reason stands on the hour hand, and contains a key to the next section. The next section is, without a doubt, a platforming heaven. You must jump a lot on the wheels and avoid plenty of flamethrowers. Exit from this section will return you to the previous section, but from another side. Here you need to jump on the swinging platforms, that will ultimately get you to the slope. Cornell must slide down the slope to the narrow platform, that leads to the lever. Using slope can be hard, since it have some gaps in it, but there is an elevator nearby, that will return you to the slope, if you fall. Aforementioned lever, will turn clock hands, so they will make bridge to the exit from the level. Overall, this level became bigger and more interesting, than its CV64 counterpart. In my opinion, it is the most epic representation of the Clock Tower in the series as of now. Also, unlike other redesigned levels, this one didn't lose so much atmosphere and structurally almost make sense. Minor complaints about this place is that it's not always obvious where to go, particularly in the section with flamethrowers and it can be a bit too tiresome.

Stage 14: Castle Keep.
And here we are (again) to battle Dracula. Castle Keep wasn't redesigned, so all you need to do is to go right to the small tower with Dracula. You will fight Renon, if you spent more than 30.000 gold in his shop, but Charlie Vincent will not make appearance in any case.

As for Dracula, he looks the same as the Fake Dracula in CV64, and have the same attacks, except for one. He can throw semi-homing firebats (this time blue coloured), create two shockwaves - one on the floor, another on the waist level, and he can try to draw you to himself, by sucking air in his cape. As in CV64, if he does this, he will be able to suck your blood and restore his lifebar. His only new attack have two different versions. Instead of stream of fire, like in CV64, Dracula now summons lightning in his hand. Then he can do two different things: he can create one continous stream of lightining aimed at player (it lasts long ebough to damaged player twice) or he can throw it around himself. Both attacks  very damaging and should be avoided in any way possible. Gladly, with Cornell, defeating Dracula is a cake walk. His energy scythe have enough range to hit Dracula even, if he appears almost on the other end of the room. Also, as was the case in CV64, succsesfull hit will make Dracula cancel any attack, that he was doing.

After defeating Dracula, he will use Ada, trapped in the crystal, to enhance his powers and transform in...giant and somewhat disturbing demon, several times bigger than Cornell - an Ultimate Dracula. Urcula is very hard to defeat, but unlike with Drago in CV64, main difficulty comes not from the chaos on the screen, but from outright unfair design of the battle. Cornell can move only on the miniscule platform, while most of the Urcula's attack can cover almost the whole space of said platform. The only vulnerable place of the beast is his face, that, despite what you get used to, located in his chest and most of the time protected by skin flaps. The fact, that it's not always open and when it does, you usually forced to escape from some attack, compensated by big damage, that every succesful hit in the face does. Urcula starts attacking with lightining strikes. He creates small lightning strike, that doesn't do any damage and just indicate where the next, big strike, will land. He throws three of those in close sequence, so player will be busy running around platform to avoid them. This is pretty hard to do, considering, that big lightning strikes, cover a lot of area and, since they fire at the same time as little ones, the whole place covered with different lightning effects, making it's hard to figure out where to run. Player can abort this attack, though, since during second lightning attack, Urcula opens face. But it's hard to aim, with all this running around. Then Urcula flies away into distance and throws several fireballs. Stay on the right and you will be able to destroy all of them. Just remember, that energy scythe have more range, than it looks like. After, this attack, Urcula returns to the platform and will try to grab Cornell in his hand. If he does so, then he will throw Cornell into the air and shot him with two beams of light. This attack does very big damage. Jump over his hand, when Urcula attempts his grab and shot him in the face. If you are quick, you can shot him twice. Urcula will once again fly away from the platform to throw ice projectiles. Stay in the right corner. Shot the first icycle. When Urcula charges second icycle attack, jump into the air and then crouch - icycles will fly over the Cornell's head without dealing damage. Do the same thing to avoid third icycle attack. When Urcula returns to the platform, he will bash his fist against it, creating row of ice spikes. This attack does not do much damage and can be intercepted, by shooting in the Urcula's face, if you are quick enough. His face opens just few moments before attack take place. And again Urcula will fly into distance and will throw some Baraka-faced worms at you. Stay in the left corner and shot at them as soon as target appears on their bodies. This way you can destroy them one by one, before they reach you. Urcula will return to the platform and start to suck air in his fist to grab Cornell and throw him into the air, for subsequent laser massage. Stay in the right corner and run away from the his fist for some time. Just be sure to stay in the middle or closer to left corner, when Urcula opens his face. After, all that, Urcula unleashes his ultimate attack. He charges energy and creates a giant explosion, that will occupy almost the whole platform, leaving you with the small corner to huddle in. After, that he restarts his cycle of attacks.

Now, the whole battle has outright unfair design and it's pretty much screams "fake difficulty". The overall it feels as it was created for the 2D game and then was transfered without any changes to the 3D. And while, this partially worked for locations in CV64, with such controls and abilities of the boss, this aproach doesn't work for this fight. Why designers made it, so player unable to move anywhere, but small patch of the ground, when every Ultimate Dracula's attack either has homing abilites or just take a lot of space? Whatever was their reasoning, this battle has ridicolous design and more frustrating, then entertaining. There are hard boss battles, that are objectively hard, because enemies has the same abilities as player or exceed them somehow. In this battle not only boss exceeds all your abilities, but you lost your main advantage - ability to move in 3D. Without that Urcula battle goes beyond fair and unfair and enters the realm of cheating on the developers side.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:45:24 PM by Sumac »

Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #123 on: March 16, 2013, 06:27:23 PM »
-1
Part 5:
Well, time to tell about Henry's quest. After you complete the game as Cornell, after credits you will recevie message, that Henry now available as playable character. He is not so different from the other characters in this game, just heavier. His primary weapon is a pistol, that have enormous range and strength. His secondary weapon is a sword, that copypasted from Reinhardt. Come to think of it, Henry actually looks like Reinhardt's model, with helmet and armor pasted on top of it. This actually make him look rather ridicolous as, if someone wanted to fight monsters wearing, only upper half of the hazard suit with pajama pants and slippers. Also, if you thought, you'll have a rare chance to blast ol'bloodsucker with lead in a face, then prepare to be dissappointed - Henry's mode is nothing more, than glorified bonus mission, during which, your main objective is not complete the game, but just find six kidnapped children. It lasts only for six levels, or if you are slow, only seven ingame days. Game is over as soon as the time runs out or you find all children.

Henry's mode. Stage 1: Forest of Silence.
It starts the same as in Cornell's mode. Fight G.A.S. and run to the place with a pit and two rising platforms. There is ravine near the first lever. In the normal game it doesn't have any purpose, but not in this mode. Jump down the platforms. There is cracked wall, near the last platform. Destroy it and go inside the cave. In the end you will find first child, Anthony. It will unlock hard difficulty. From there, run to the end of the cave and you will find yourself right in front of the lever, that opens gate to boss. Defeat G.A.S. (this time it even more easier, since you don't need to get very close to him) and run to the exit.

Henry's mode. Stage 2: Outer Wall.
Since Reinhardt / Carry already were here, you don't need to find keys and open gates. Everything is opened and all you need to do is to find child. Run in the left tower and go up to the section with four rotating green platforms. You will see remote platform near the central pillar with child on it. On the first look, it is impossible to reach that platform, however, as always distances are deceiving in this game. Just jump from the second or third rotating platform and you will grab edge of the platform with child, Bess. It will unlock Carrie. Now, jump to the rotating platforms, go down to the exit of the tower and simply run to the exit from the level.

Henry's mode. Stage 3: Villa.
As was the case with Outer Wall, everything here is already opened. Child is in the Garden Maze. He is somewhere near fenced area, where you picked up Rose Brooch as Cornell. Saving Clark, will open Reinhardt as playable character. Now, run to the door, which you opened with Copper Key and enter the Crypt, where you fought Gilles De Reis. There is coffin, but no enemies. In this mode coffin acts as the teleporter, which can take you to any of the three locations. Where it will send you depends on in-game time. All next locations can be completed in any order. To make it even simplier, there is always glowing crystal near the start of the level, which will instantly teleport you back to the coffin.

Henry's mode. Stage ?: Underground Tunnel.
It is pretty much the same as in CV64. But unlike other levels, child is hidden near the end of the level, not near begining. Run through the grinder machines, jump on the islands and get to the train system. Ride the red train, then the blue one. In the final section of the level, after some platforming in the pit filled with the poison water, look-out for the shovel in the ground. As soon as you see it, run north and to the timebased door. Behind it you will find another child, Diana. It will unlock Cornell's alternate costume. I don't think it is possible to return to the begining, so your only way from the stage is to fight its boss. Find another timebased door and enter it. There is a new boss awaiting you: Spider Queen. Her only ranged attack so far, is the one where she throws little spiders at you. Spiders can bite and poison your character. When you come close to her, she will spray some poison at you. As Henry you don't need to come close to her. Just stay on the medium range and avoid small spiders. After you deplete her lifebar, she will deattach from the wall and start running around arena. When she is close, she will use her "hands" to slash player. And she has long ranged attack, where she throws web at you. If your character will be caught, she will spin him around and finally throw him into the wall. This actually looks awesome (and I bet, if it was in modern game it would have been a QTE) and I recommend to be caught in that atack at least once (if you have enough health, that is). Otherwise, for Henry she is not very hard opponent. Just run around, don't get close to her and avoid her web, while shooting at the same time.

Henry's mode. Stage ?: Underground Waterway.
Like in Castle Wall you don't need to solve any puzzles here. Child is in the small opening near the first broken bridge. You can see her from the begining of the bridge. You can get to said opening, by using two, very narrow, platforms. Jump from the second one and grab the edge of the recess with the child. Saving Edward will open Reinhardt's alternate costume. From there you can return to the begining, to actually make use of the teleport crystal. Or run to the end of the level and fight new boss - Medusa. Since you don't need to deactivate poison waterfalls, you can get to the end of the stage in under a minute. Medusa is rather simple boss. In the begining of the battle she flings multiple snakes at you, and tries to hit you with her tail. Later, she starts to conjure shield (protects her from damage) or bow (she can use it to shoot three snakes as projectiles). Her main weapon is, as expected from her, stone gaze. She can turn your character into stone (or rather create stone around your character) to have free attack. For Henry this battle is once again fairly simple. Just shoot and then shoot some more.

Henry's mode. Stage ?: Inner Wall.
As expected you don't need to activate anything in this level. Child on the archway, over the square, where first elevator takes you. Get all the way to the door, which normally is the exit from this section. From there, jump to the archway and proceed slowly. Jump from the very edge of the archway and you will fall right to the narrow ledge with child. Talk to her and you will be able to use Carrie's alternate costume.

After saving all six children you will see Henry's ending and the wall of text, telling you how heroical he was.

Now for my final thoughts about Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness. Graphics and sound remained at the same level as in original version. Controls become tighter and better. However, camera quirks weren't really adressed. Levels themselves were recreated to become less open-ended, so player could always knew where he should go. Because there was less need for a "smart" camera in the levels, it looks like it behaves slightly better, however, at some places (Tower of Art) camera acts even worse, then it ever did in CV64, rendering game unplayable. So, I don't consider camera in that game a larger improvement. It's more likes levels were tuned, so camera wouldn't go awry. Which partailly solved the problem, but from another angle entirely. Lock on feature is useful, though, I think it should have been a standard camera mode for the boss battles, rather then optional feature. By the way, it pretty much was like that in CV64.

However, the main change, that make this game rather different from CV64 is the level design. In original CV64, levels were build around idea of semi-realistic places, that made sense from the structural point of view. LOD almost completely abandoned such approach in favour of creating levels, that would have been more interesting to play. Major drawback of this, is that levels, started to look like they could belong to any 3D platforming game. As I noted before, Castlevania always impressed me with how (in many cases) location were thought out. Castlevania 64 kept that mark, going even further. It had some of the most realistic and atmospheric locations series ever knew and they were interesting to play, to boot. Locations in CV64 wasn't just certain places in name only, it were places in everything, logic and spirit. While because of said logic, locations in CV64 sometimes felt too short and a bit not like stages in 3D should be (I think it have something to do with absence of two playable characters), locations in LOD adressed those "problems", but rather in a wrong way. They were recreated almost from scratch, which resulted in heavy change of atmosphere in those levels. They've become more universal in its structure, less realistic and memorable as the result. More competently designed for the 3D games in general, if you want. However, competence resulted in genericness. Part of the charm of the levels in CV64 was they unique nature, they didn't felt like they were designed for the 3D. They were more like 2D levels, that developers attempted to recreate in 3D with a lot of realism thrown in. Part of the changes, can be explained by the fact, that four towers in CV64 were, seemingly, created to fit individual gameplay of four diferent characters, and in LOD they were redesigned to fit gameplay of all characters. The same goes to the new locations. The sad thing, is that not only levels were created to be fit for all characters in the game, but that they were created as, as if they could seemingly fit in any 3D game. Besides, my major criticism is that some recreated locations become too long and as result a bit tiresome. And some parts of the new levels doesn't make sense all together. Like part in the Tower of Art, where you need to change time to enter doors right next to each other. Or choosing from two columns in the Tower of Ruins. There is no hints at which column is safe and which is not and they never trade places, rendering all guessing meaningless past the first playthrough. By the way, in its structure, those two levels are pretty big offenders, when it comes to above statements about loss of internal logic. Some of the not redesigned locations were broken with bad decisions in Cornell's quest, in order to make the game last longer (as if the game with four playable characters with different set of levels for each, and lots of puzzles can be completed in one day, duh). Outer Wall and Villa (especially Villa) were transformed from easy to navigate and understand levels, into boring chorefest, where you need to do insane amount of backtracking all in the name of...backtracking. The only redesigned location, that was done well and preserved its Castlevania identity (in Cornell's quest) was Clock Tower, but that's one good locations out of 12. I don't want to say, that I didn't enjoyed playing those redesigned levels. In some cases I really liked them. New Tower of Ruins, new Tower of Execution, new Tower of Science were very good locations and they were exciting to play. It's just that they lost their dark and spooky atmosphere and become, just very good and competently designed game levels. For any other game it would have been enough, for the Castlevania, I think there should be something more. When it comes to content, well of course game with four playable characters is a bit better, then game with just two playable characters. But Cornell doesn't strike me as an interesting character neither in personlity nor gameplay. And his quest gives impression of the hastly put together overextended filler. The same can be said about Henry's quest, which feels like an excuse to use unique shooting mechanic. New bosses are not bad, except for Ultimate Dracula, but in his case it was bad design of the battlefield, that make his battle bad. Overall, I think, that LOD is much better package as the 3D game, then predeccesor. But as Castlevania game it is severely more lacking, then original release.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:45:34 PM by Sumac »

Offline RichterB

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #124 on: March 16, 2013, 09:16:10 PM »
0
(Sumac, I found some more resources below that might help you!)

Interesting review. I have to say I'm somewhat surprised, but also somewhat in agreement. I say "somewhat" because I feel I am ill-equipped regarding this particular game. As I admitted earlier, I have not played LoD since it was first released. Already owning CV64, I rented LoD when it came out, as it was confusing what the game was. A prequel? A sequel? A remake? It seemed a little bit of all of these from coverage in the media.

Anyway, I played as Cornell, beat the game, tried a bit of Henry (but couldn't figure out the goal for some reason), and then returned the game, figuring Reinhardt and Carrie probably weren't much different. As a result of that, my reactions will be all over the board and broad, limited by memory mostly. My impressions at the time were these: It was an interesting companion piece to CV64, but unlike others, I didn't feel it 100% replaced it by any means. The changes made to levels gave me mixed reactions; I sort of liked the layout of old stages better, particularly the Tower of Execution. On the other hand, I really liked the idea of new stages, bosses, and a new quest or two. More than anything, I was surprised how many "NEW" things there were in the game.

Some of the smallest tweaks, like the addition of walking on the hands of the clock face at the clock tower made me grin ear to ear. The Tower of Ruins struck me as a neat nod to the ancient aspects of Castlevania seen in characters like the Mummies or Medusa. While I can see its flaws, I am endeared to the Ghost Ship (of Fools) in Dracula's Curse, so having that right from the start again in LoD was very neat/surprising, and its boss was an even bigger surprise. These are the sort of general reactions I had. (Ironically, I've never felt strongly about Rondo's Ghost Ship, though, particularly after I got to play it for myself years later). I loved the SCVIV-like swinging chandeliers part in the game, and  the new music was welcome and overall on the good side.

Cornell I had warmed up to from all the original art that stated he would be in CV64. I agree that his wolf form was game-breaking, but I sort of found that comforting on a rental, since I was trying to work through the game quickly before I had to return it. ;) He definitely seemed like he didn't use his full potential, and I kind of like when he was a castle prisoner in the beta (hence alternate costume; I guess his new costume is supposed to reflect his cultural difference, yet still reflect a villager of sorts). I know people who feel both ways about it, but I think the idea of a werewolf character in of itself is rather fitting for Castlevania--so long as there is still a playable and important whip-based character. We've already had magic-users and Dracula's son. It seems that a werewolf could be a conflicted hero. In broader terms, there was a werewolf with ninja-like moves and energy attacks in Rondo of Blood and Dracula X; and Capcom's Darkstalkers also has this theme in a horror setting with Jon Talbain. I wonder where this idea of mixing martial arts and werewolves come from. It's bizarre, but has a certain eccentricity that just manages to work when presented in a balanced matter--like the ascetic/discipline aspect of martial arts alongside the offensive capabilities. In that same way, the way they had seemed to present Coller would have been interesting, as a Frankenstein with a conscience.

With Cornell and Henry, from what I played, it seems like it was a really rushed effort to get some semblance of the leftover ideas out to people rather than having them on the cutting room floor altogether. Admirable but sad. The way they tried to weave the stories together was intriguing, and different in its conspiracy-like tone from the bad guys, even if sandwiched in to some degree. The Oldrey side-story seemed compelling at the time. I liked how some areas were changed from how you saw them in CV64, as if saying that "the door you couldn't enter before when you took the other bridge-fork in the road, well, this is where it used to lead to." (I think that's at the end of Castle Center, which I REALLY liked as a historical transition piece between levels). At the time, I don't know that I thought much on the structural level consistency. I'm not sure to what level that would bother me now or not as long as the stages are fun and provide enough openness. As I said, I did think some of the older designs for repeated levels were better in CV64. Someone did a review of all the specific changes that happened between CV64 and LoD. (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,5110.0.html) Some of the stuff, like wall lighting and magic bubble-flakes were erased from Tower of Sorcery to its visual detriment, and you noted similar elements changed in the Villa. I did like that there seemed to be a few more enemies and or enemy types to deal with even early on. But you make a great point in saying the towers were points that could have been forks specific for individual characters and their gameplay styles. Wow, that would have been great.

As an aside, I recall this game having a camera that rotated on button command with the C Buttons, which could both help and hurt. Not sure what you thought of that.

Some of your review I skimmed a bit, so as to not spoil every element (which I may or may not have forgotten) when I hopefully try to find an opportunity to play through this game in the next few months. I actually look forward to that experience, since I think it's closest to what I'd hope to get out of a Castlevania game these days. I really do need to experience this one again for myself. Presently, I had CV64 ranked higher than LoD, but felt sort of goofy for that, since it did strike me that LoD had more "content." I really do admire scope in a game, and from what I played, it was still a lot of fun (whereas the scope in Rondo was more admirable or interesting than fun). Still, I couldn't shake the feeling that CV64 AND LoD needed to BOTH be played to get the full experience, and your review reinforces that, maybe even skewing things further! (I can't help but feel this is in a similar realm to Rondo of Blood vs. Dracula X).

Anyway, all of those links I gave, be sure that you don't leave out the Unseen64 one for your reading just because I put it down the list, as they explain some really interesting things, especially with Coller, etc. Some of those articles you have to dig for the tidbits, I'm afraid, but it's worth it. I tried to cover some of what I could find here if it is of help (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=4917.0). Also, you know what might be helpful that I didn't go too deeply into when I wrote that? Check out the art history of CV64 and LoD (with stuff you'll notice was cut from game):

http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/officialart.htm#cv64
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/officialart.htm#lod

Good luck! Look forward to the final word on the N64 era.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 09:22:53 PM by RichterB »

Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #125 on: March 17, 2013, 12:37:28 PM »
-1
Thanks you for the thoughts about my review.  :)

I read article at the Unseen64, but I plan to do it again to write down differences between versions. I have some of the art of CV64 / LOD on my computer and I don't think it can be very useful in recreating original ideas for the games, except for unused enemy designs. I've read some of the articles you left, and I already have some ideas on what the game should have been and what left in the final version. Most likely I start writing article about it, somewhere on the next week. There is article about Circle of the Moon, I've yet must to start, so there is a lot things to do for me.

Quote
I can't help but feel this is in a similar realm to Rondo of Blood vs. Dracula X.
Hm, maybe.

As for Cornell, as far I understood, he was supposed to be bitter, but good character initially. In LOD he comes as rather plain and boring. I have nothing against idea of playable werewolves in CV, but they should at least have some interesting character.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 12:41:24 PM by Sumac »

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #126 on: March 17, 2013, 01:08:02 PM »
0
I read article at the Unseen64, but I plan to do it again to write down differences between versions. I have some of the art of CV64 / LOD on my computer and I don't think it can be very useful in recreating original ideas for the games, except for unused enemy designs. I've read some of the articles you left, and I already have some ideas on what the game should have been and what left in the final version. Most likely I start writing article about it, somewhere on the next week. There is article about Circle of the Moon, I've yet must to start, so there is a lot things to do for me.
Hm, maybe.

As for Cornell, as far I understood, he was supposed to be bitter, but good character initially. In LOD he comes as rather plain and boring. I have nothing against idea of playable werewolves in CV, but they should at least have some interesting character.

Awesome. Do things how you want to, and don't stress on it. You know what else I sort of noticed is that some old screenshots in the magazines seem to show an area or two that has no counterpart in the final games. I think I once saw a paved area outside the castle or in a courtyard. Maybe you've noticed that, or maybe I'll need to go hunting for it. I have to wonder a few things, which I'm sure you'll get to, like if the werewolf in the Forest of Silence and Dual Towers was actually how Cornell would have played as far as animations and move set? Also, there's at least three unused artwork characters, and two of them may have something to do with Coller. I'm sure you've already got the connection piece with the red-haired girl that has been discussed elsewhere, but that wacky scientist seems like something that could have been a part of the story surrounding Coller and the Tower of Silence. (I really liked how you connected Coller and his potential gameplay to the Tower of Science in an earlier review here).

Last note: I was playing a little Castlevania 1 the other day, and was more conscious of the design and art choices you talked about in your review. (Personally, as fundamentally solid and iconic as it is, I somehow find the first game a little bland. There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just the feeling it gives me). But more importantly, I realized just how wink-wink Castlevania started out. The game has movie reel holes in the title screen (which continued with some of the early games), and it's like Castlevania is this Hollywood monster movie send-up, or at least another part of that Hollywood monster movie tradition. The intrepid hero part probably comes from something like Vampire Hunter D. A interesting blend for the origin of the series. Just a thought. But it connects to the N64 titles in the way they tried to be horror movie-cinematic at times, and speaks to a certain atmosphere for the series.

Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #127 on: March 17, 2013, 01:32:54 PM »
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Quote
You know what else I sort of noticed is that some old screenshots in the magazines seem to show an area or two that has no counterpart in the final games. I think I once saw a paved area outside the castle or in a courtyard. Maybe you've noticed that, or maybe I'll need to go hunting for it.
I know about at least ywo areas from early game, that doesn't have nothing like that in the final version - cemetery (it appears in Dracula 3D trailer, if I am not mistaking) and village nearby bridge to the Dracula castle (very early screen, used almost in all previews). It is possible, that early structure of the game was like in CV2, where you can go to village in between exploring locations.

Quote
I have to wonder a few things, which I'm sure you'll get to, like if the werewolf in the Forest of Silence and Dual Towers was actually how Cornell would have played as far as animations and move set?
Somebody on this forum was sure, that Werewolf was using Cornell's early animations. While there is no way to be sure, I support this point view, since devs reused Corler as an enemy monster. The same thing could have happened with Cornell.

Quote
Also, there's at least three unused artwork characters, and two of them may have something to do with Coller. I'm sure you've already got the connection piece with the red-haired girl that has been discussed elsewhere, but that wacky scientist seems like something that could have been a part of the story surrounding Coller and the Tower of Silence. (I really liked how you connected Coller and his potential gameplay to the Tower of Science in an earlier review here).
I know about red haired girl, but what who is the crazy scientist? I don't remember anything like that. There was some dwarf-like character with retort or a bomb in his head, but I am not sure, if we talking about the same art.
As for Tower of Science, it became very obvious, during playthrough, that each tower was thematically related to the four initial characters (melee duels with werebeasts = Cornell, science theme = Corler, a lot of platforming = Carrie, traditional Castlevania stage = Reinhardt + TOE has hooks, which were used for whip swinging). Also, seeing how Carrie's gameplay was utterly broken in TOS, it was even more obvious, that TOS was created for someone different and wasn't rebalanced for her.

I wonder how long initially game was supposed to be?
In CV64 characters have 9 levels. Towers were going to be individual for each character. It leaves us with 8 levels per character. But I have a theory, that Underground Mine and Waterway should have went back to back instead of being individual levels for separate characters. And they should have ended with bosses - Spider Queen and Medusa respectively. It makes 8 levels per character. However, I am not sure, if there were early versions of the LOD levels like Tower of Ruins, Art and Ghost Ship. The old preview says, that game started in the forest, so most likely Ship was created only for LOD, seeing how it is very short location. The bridge, however, looks like something from, that early screen with village before castle.
Riddles, riddles... :-\

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #128 on: March 17, 2013, 07:06:40 PM »
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Riddles, riddles... :-\

Sumac, these ridddles MUST be solved!!! :-)

Even from these tidbits, I think you're pulling together a lot of the diseparate pieces with great logic, even going beyond what Unseen64 and others have done. Sometimes, I got caught up in the details that I never thought to put them together into something cohensive from the creators' point of view. Again, the towers really put the game in a whole new light, and it makes so much sense. I actually would be cool with less levels if they were all integrated well into their given player-character. (Tower of Execution would have been extra amazing if those hooks worked).

I've got something interesting to share. A whole new clue, perhaps. Remember how I said that Cornell had some similarities to Jon Talbain (aka Gallon in Japan) from Capcom's Darkstalkers series? (A werewolf who grapples with his beast transformation and a master of martial arts). Well, like Corler, Darkstalkers also has a Frankenstein character called Victor von Gerdenheim.

Here's his story from Wikipedia: "Victor was the creation of a mad scientist by the same name. However, Professor Victor Von Gerdenheim died shortly after giving life to Victor. Believing that if he proves that he is the strongest in the world, the Professor would accept him, Victor leaves the castle. After Victor had fought many Darkstalkers, he came back to the castle hoping the Professor would accept him, but the dead Professor did not wake up. Instead, the prototype Emily welcomed Victor back.

The two lived happily for many years until one night, Emily's functions came to a stop. Victor believed that if he collects many souls, he could revive Emily. He entered the Majigen to collect souls with this intent. In the end, he sacrificed himself by using all his powers to revive Emily.
"

Assuming, off hand, the Castlevania 64 creators were fans of Darkstalkers, or aware of its use of stlyized classic monsters as anti-heros, could we draw further paralells?

1.) What if Emily = Red-haired girl in artwork (rumored sub-boss for Corler)
2.) What if Victor and Emily's Creator = Weird Scientist/Short Mustache Guy with Potion/Nitro in Head in artwork.

It's a jump, yes, but just follow me. This CV64 "Scientist" I'm talking about is the same one you mentioned in different terms. Why do I think he's a scientist? Well, he's got some kind of potion or nitro bomb with an eyeball floating in it in his head, and he had a cane and other attributes that suggest he's not a regular enemy character (like a alternate Fleaman), but someone used for event scenes.

The creators were coy about Corler's storyline, and liked talking about how he couldn't be turned into a vampire. We get it, that he's this Frankenstein type. Well, every Frankenstein needs a creator. This "scientist" has a vile-based liquid substance in his head that resembles objects found in Castle Center (Nitro, for instance), and has what could be considered a fuse coming out of it. What else is in the Castle Center? We have a Behemoth that gets reanimated from death, we have Motorcycle Skeletons (diochronic science reference), and we have a chamber where a Lizardman claims live expiraments are going on. (As an aside, in the game, Dracula has Bomb Skeletons, which are a mixture of science and dark magic, and, again, we see that this "scientist" has a "fuse"). There are all manner of sharp torture instruments in Castle Center, and Corler/Gardener's chainsaw could be seen as an extension of these. CV64's creators noted that they wanted to add more modern/science touches to Castlevania. (EDIT: And by the way, Frankenstein in Castlevania has been associated with colored viles/flasks since SCVIV).

Moving onward, there are multiple possibilities. Corler could be an escaped expirament trying to rescue his love from a similar fate, only to find her taken over by expiraments of the "scientist," making her the alleged sub-boss some have speculated in a manner similar to Carrie's ancestor. This "scientist" could be a manipulator like Atrice or Death for Corler's code. In another, related scenario, perhaps the "fuse" in his head is something Dracula uses to ensure obedience from the "scientist," who has some bat-like regalia that pretty much ensures he's working for Dracula. The idea of the Tower of Science exclusively following Castle Center for Corler would be a great fit following a potential confrontation with the red-haired girl manipulated by the "scientist" in Castle Center.

Alternatively, the "scientist" or the girl, separately, could be for Cornell, I suppose. If Cornell was, as some suggest, a prisoner where the Lizard man is in the final build, Cornell could be out for revenge against the "scientist" for locking him up. In that regard, the "scientist" could share a role in the latter two "monster" heroes. Or, it could simply be that the red-haired girl is an earlier version of Cornell's sister (but that plot point was probably added for LoD, so I'm leaning toward the earlier logic of a triangle between Corler, "scientist," and red-haired girl ala Carrie, Atrice, and Fernandez Zombie.

What do you think? I mean, that "scientist" character is pretty striking and finished design-wise to be a throwaway joke, and this game was pretty big on creating character-conflict stories during quests.

Back to your well-made point, I never fully considered it, but LoD's added content/story/levels wasn't all necessarily part of what was dropped, but new constructs to sandwich in pieces of lost game data in some manner of finished form, which makes characters such as Ortega and Cornell's sister (Ada?) suspect; though, I don't doubt more bosses like Spider Queen and Medusa were intended.

Some of the earlier interviews noted "branch" points in the game. I'm not sure what that meant for stage design. But I do wonder if there wasn't Simon's Quest like points with the village you noted. I do get the feeling it was a slightly more open game, originally. Especially given unused gameplay of luring vampires out of houses or caves into light. I am curious about the Underground Mine and Waterway connecting. Especially given the poison water. Though, maybe it was a branch point? I'll be interested to hear how you think the game's basic theory of stage progression was meant to go versus how it ended up. (Linear/non-linear). The creators do seem to mention points where you can make game-changing choices early on.

Interesting that early shots show the spider-women/lizardmen were near the Villa/Maze, which could be a test of their models, or show that the Gardener chase was only put in once Corler was dropped. I wonder...

The graveyard you noted could have been a prototype part of the Forest of Silence, given the coffins and such in that stage.

Several rough-modeled enemies did not appear: Carmilla riding the skull, a big blood skull, and a big scorpion (maybe an early spider-woman character?).

Food for thought, either way. Blast these riddles!

EDIT 2: I just noticed three more things. 1. The scientist's "cane" may be the beginning of a cropped science lever rendering. 2. This guy is a vampire. He's got fangs. 3. I suppose he could also be a partial reference to Igor.

EDIT 3: I decided to look at some of the articles myself. (I accidentally repeated some and split up one Nintendo article. Oops). Just want to briefly note in correction to my above statement: Cornell's sister was always a part of his story--but MUCH different in presentation. Also, they really did stress the importance of angled attacks by brandishing a weapon and moving it with the control stick, along with a special attack meter. (was this game-breaking that it was dropped?) Seems like some great material got cut here. Most curiously, I want to hear your thoughts on what was meant by a character being able to switch from a power type to a speed type. The guy had already talked about Cornell, so presumably he meant Corler/Kola. I'm starting to wonder if the Frankenstein-type didn't have an alternate form or a character swap ability to play as the red-haired girl for the aforementioned "speed"? Ugh. I can't believe that they never were able to implement everything, even with LoD. Konami must have pulled the plug, and LoD was sort of an apology/concession.

EDIT 4: More consolidated missing pieces of info here, including extra artwork and clearer screens (showing another form of the special power bar, I think (previously on the bottom of the screen in earlier builds). Also, we've got Reinhardt in the Underground Waterway, just like you said! Plus, the glowing blue light over Reinhardt in one screen could be an example of one of the hidden moves or item crashes, previously only hinted at in interviews and in the beta movie reel with Carrie ripping up the floor: http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/games/cv64weird.html
Additional art designs with curious features at the bottom of this page (including some screens of another frame of some kind of special blue light attack and an angled whip attack from Reinhardt) Plus, I just realized that Corler/Coller/Kola was a reference to the Evil Dead horror franchise with his chainsaw and gun mix: http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/games/cv64.html
(As an aside, there is somebody trying to make an HD skin for CV64. Some of it changes the original intention too much for my liking, but some of it looks fantastic: http://c64project.blogspot.com/)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 02:58:00 PM by RichterB »

Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #129 on: March 19, 2013, 09:04:07 AM »
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It's a jump, yes, but just follow me. This CV64 "Scientist" I'm talking about is the same one you mentioned in different terms. Why do I think he's a scientist? Well, he's got some kind of potion or nitro bomb with an eyeball floating in it in his head, and he had a cane and other attributes that suggest he's not a regular enemy character (like a alternate Fleaman), but someone used for event scenes.
I think it's a great idea. I always thought, that he was just another unused enemy, but with how you put it...it certainly start to look different.

It seems, that each story have trinity of characters: hero, victim, arch-nemesis.
Hero - Reinhardt, victim - Rosa, arch-nemesis - Grim Reaper;
Hero - Carrie, victim - Camilla Fernandez, arch-nemesis - Actrise;
Hero - Conrell, victim - ?, arch-nemesis - Ortega (?).
Hero - Coller, victim - (Coller 2?), arch-nemesis - (scientist?)

With information available it next to impossible recreate who was supposed to be Cornell's enemy, though. It all depends on, if Ortega was created only for LOD and who was the victim in Cornell's story, if Ada was dead in its original version.

Now, I am not sure about everything, after watching video review for LOD, where reviewer said, that CV64 supposed to be an open ended game and for N64DD. But I think branch points were just for the storyline. If you played character according to his personality you received one ending, if you played against "his type" - another. It is similar to Contra Hard Corps, I think, where depending on your answers you could chose different routes and fight different bosses. In CV64 I think, everything was far more simplier and choices affected only endings and boss fights.
As example of such choice: I think in the scene with Reinhardt and Rosa you could choose not to save her, playing against Reinhardt's personality.

Several rough-modeled enemies did not appear: Carmilla riding the skull, a big blood skull, and a big scorpion (maybe an early spider-woman character?).

I think Carmilla didn't appear like this for another obvious reason. There were two roughly modeled enemies - Crab and Scorpion, but I don't see how they could be included in the game. Or rather where they could be included.

I don't doubt, that Graden Maze had regular enemies, before Coller was changed into Gardener. Though, it is now hard to imagine Graden wihtout him.

I think they didn't plan to exclude hearts meter from the game. On the old screens there are both energy meter and heart meter. So, supposedly, special meter was for special moves and abilities, hearts meter for subweapon only, like in SOTN.
What special meter could have been for? Well, it obvious, that in case of Cornell it was for his transformation. In LOD, his transformation uses heart meter as if it was special meter, which doesn't make sense. Also, I think Carrie's homing fireballs used special meter, so player wasn't able to spam them. Reinhardt most likely could become stronger, if Incadescence thing is any indication and for Corler, he most likely was able to become faster. I don't think it transformed him into a woman. It would have been to odd.

But this all - is a baseless specualtion. I think, that really useful information could be found in Japanese previews and via extensive game hacking.

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #130 on: March 19, 2013, 09:24:41 PM »
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Yeah, I suppose there's only so much one can figure out, and then it has to be let go. :-[

The way you paint it does make the original game plan somewhat less nebulous and more structured than I first thought (which, I suppose, makes more sense, too). One has to wonder if Cornell and Corler would get to fight Dracula, or if their stories would end in tragedy--hence why they had to be unlocked by Reinhardt, etc in the first place. For that matter, if the game was indeed a three-character story per character quest, what was this early talk about interacting or freeing other player-characters? I assumed they meant you'd cross paths with other heroes.

The Special Meter makes a lot of sense when you put it in the context of Circle of the Moon, which was made by KCEK also.

I find one of the hallmarks of CV64/LoD being that it tried to present this branching story of multiple, unique lives affected by Dracula. However, one must wonder if they had focused on one or two characters from the start, and not four, would the game have come out stronger all-around, and Reinhardt would have been swinging over gaps, etc. As it was, conceptually, it's such an interesting setup that could have come off as a total disaster and/or un-Castlevania-like, yet, to me, it felt just right somehow in a progressive way for the series.

I will say that I've run across a weird piece of info today on another cool Castlevania site that I'm trying to track down more clarity on. (You may have already known about it since you called the girl "Corler 2"). I wonder where the origin of this info comes from given that it wasn't in the articles I shared, but according to one fan supposedly in the know, Corler 2 started out as a rival to Corler, but as development went on, Corler 2 replaced Corler. In other words, the girl was the playable character, and Corler was moved as a boss which later got turned into the Gardener. They also note some parallel between Carrie and Corler 2...maybe that they'd both be female heros to balance out Reinhardt and Cornell's two male heros? It's not clearly stated on the site. It also seems to note that Corler 2 was an upgraded creation in a line of Frankenstein-like experiments, like I had sort of speculated earlier in the thread. I am trying to figure out where this fan got their facts from. (The site that posted it doesn't have a direct link. It's under "MEDIA"--> "Unused Materials" at the side and bottom of this page, respectively: http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv64/game-castlevania64.htm) Also noted somewhere in there was the fact that Japan calls Carrie a "Belnades" and that Carrie's Cousin is supposedly called Sypha in Japan, as well!

I was able to find this overseas marketing interview with marketing director Jon Sloan, formerly of Konami, below. It's mostly PR talk, except that it notes that they shipped the game with two characters instead of four and less overall content due to quality issues, and that this left things open for a sequel, along with second thoughts (were they anticipating LoD already?!):

GameSpot News: Does Konami feel this new Castlevania advances the franchise? I'm speaking primarily of storyline.

Jon Sloan: ***SPOILER ALERT-YOU'VE BEEN WARNED*** Apart from trying to maintain some kind of chronological consistency with the series, this title does introduce a few new aspects into the series. For example, the introduction of the reborn Dracula as a young boy who has to grow into maturity during the game. This makes him somewhat more "human" and allows the player an element of empathy with him. In previous games the Dracula character was much less rounded and simply served as a two dimensional villain. These days story telling is a much more important part of a product. Even Castlevania, which is at its core a platform game series, now addresses the element of strong story telling.

GSN: Without getting into calling one console machine "better" than another, what was Konami most impressed with as far as programming a 3D game such as this for the Nintendo 64? Were there any particular problems during the process? Things you wished had gone better?

JS: As always, making the transition from 2D to 3D is a difficult process. With a game like Castlevania, that transition is made even harder because of its strong heritage. There are elements in the Castlevania series that players have come to expect, and delivering them in 3D is no easy feat. For example, the whip, which is the biggest icon in the game, was tough to do. We had to build it with enough polygons so it had a good deal of flexibility but without slowing the action down. Then there's targeting. When you have enemies approaching from multiple directions we had to find a way to let the player easily lock onto the enemies. We achieved it with a simple button lock, which targets the enemies closest to the player. And then there's the camera - that was very tough!!

GSN: At first report, Castlevania 64 was a much larger project - intricate and crisscrossing storylines, many more characters, a larger world, etc. Indeed, the game seems to have gotten shorter. Why did this happen?

JS: We felt it was important to deliver a product that was as tightly polished as possible. Castlevania is such an important part of this company's history and future that we wanted to get it absolutely right. Besides, we wanted to leave enough room for a direct sequel!

GSN: Shigeru Miyamoto has spoken recently about all the things he wished he could have done with Zelda now that the game has been released. Are there any similar feelings about Castlevania 64? Things Konami wishes it could have done?

JS: With any game there is always something one wishes could have been done better. Hindsight is such a powerful thing. Tweak this, change that, whatever. However, Castlevania is a strong game and will add to the already fine stable of games in the series.

GSN: Right now, the Net is abuzz about the possibility of Castlevania on the Dreamcast. Indeed, reports are circulating today that a "source" at Konami has hinted at a DC Castlevania. Can you comment at all on this?

JS: At the moment, any rumors about a DC Castlevania will have to remain just that - rumors. Castlevania is such a well-known brand that it will appear on other formats in the future. What those formats are we cannot confirm now.

GSN: What do you see as the most likely candidate for the next Castlevania title? And what would you most like to do in it? Multiplayer?

JS: We will look at the market carefully before deciding on content of any new Castlevania games. I cannot reveal more now - you know Konami is very sensitive to development information being revealed too early.

GSN: Can you provide some final stats on the game? How big is the cart?JS: It's a 96-megabit cart and will be available on January 26.

SOURCE: http://www.gamespot.com/news/castlevanias-64-bit-comeback-2452643
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 09:30:48 PM by RichterB »

Offline Sumac

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #131 on: March 20, 2013, 10:10:36 AM »
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It's really hard to piece everything together, especially with the latest information I came to know. Remember that video review of Legacy of Darkness, that you linked me too? This guy in the video said, that CV64 was supposed to be released on Nintendo 64 Disk Drive and was envisioned as open-world game. This is the first time, when I've heard this and this...changes the picture, to say the least. If it really was the case, then it means early Castlevania 64 was already trimmed, when compared to the early previews. There is rumor about Simon Belmont being in the game, instead of Schneider Belmont...

So, if we assume CV64 was redone for cart, after DD version was cancelled, it could mean, that early version of the game was assembled from scraps of the DD version...what could it mean is...I don't know. Further proves and anlyses needed...

I don't think, that Reinhardt was suppose to unlock other characters. Early previews said, that all four characters were available from the start or at least I don't think it was ever denied. I don't think interacting with other characters was neccessary, however, it gives an interesting idea: what, if in case of Coller and Cornell they could have been rivals for each other? It's rather out of blue idea, but at this point anything goes.

I think they indeed focused on Reinhardt from the start. He is the Belmont of the game and hence supposed to be the posterboy and the lead star. I think they also worked on Carrie, since her gameplay was easier to work on, unlike melee Cornell or unique mechanics of Coller. Besides, we don't know what special abilities they could have.

I know about Mr.J's Castlevania site and I often use it as a source of information. It was the first place, where I come to know about cut content from CV64. =)

Quote
JS: We felt it was important to deliver a product that was as tightly polished as possible. Castlevania is such an important part of this company's history and future that we wanted to get it absolutely right. Besides, we wanted to leave enough room for a direct sequel!
Seems more like testing waters and damage control. I would have been surprised, if Konami outright admitted, that they rushed the hell out of the game for the deadline.

Anyway, I think, that CV64 (if it was released in complete form) would have been I bit less, than what was promissed. I feel, that developers attempted to bite a bit more, than they could chew, and it resulted in a lot of features being not cooked well enough, which played a certain role.

By the way, half of the Circle of the Moon review is ready. I still haven't start CV64 / LOD analyses article. It seems COTM review will be finished before analyses, but I will publish it only after article about early CV64.

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #132 on: March 20, 2013, 11:50:14 AM »
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You will talk about the cards and the "Yu-Gi-Oh!" (DSS) system? xD
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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #133 on: March 20, 2013, 01:18:18 PM »
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You will talk about the cards and the "Yu-Gi-Oh!" (DSS) system? xD
Certainly. As the best subsystem in all "metroidvanias" it deserved to be mentioned in detail.

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Re: Castlevania Marathon by Sumac
« Reply #134 on: March 20, 2013, 01:45:31 PM »
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Nice.
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anything