Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[e105beta]

So video gamers may or may not have played a CV game before, so I guess in turn they also may or may not have put CV back in the limelight. Gotcha.

EDIT: You pretty much described casual gamers, since they don't really fall under a niche fan base. They're the largest group of all.

Your snide implication is lost on me

EDIT: Eh, no? You don't need to be in a niche to not be considered a "casual gamer". That's like saying the guy who owns a bunch of games from Warhammer 40K Spess Mahreen to Marvel vs Capcom 3 to Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and plays DotA with his buddies is casual gamer because he doesn't swear by a particular series.

Or to extend past the original group I mentioned, what about the person who is a niche gamer of ANOTHER series, and saw something they liked in LoS so they bought it? Or the guy who played CV3 when he was a kid, never really became a hardcore fan of it, and years later saw LoS in a store or heard about it online and was like "Oh, I remember Castlevania, let's check that out."

My point is that ultimately, for better or for worse, the core fanbase alone could not make Lords of Shadow successful, so it was necessary for Konami to reach out to other gamers, because frankly, alone, the core fanbase had a hard time making any game hit blockbuster sales. It was a necessary move needed to make the series more profitable due to the dwindling sales of "traditional" Castlevania games. Now, that doesn't mean I think that the game is an example of "Cox hates the fans and it was only successful because of God of War fans" or some nonsense like that, but I think Konami trying to reach out to new gamers to make Castlevania big again now that the Metal Gear series, their cash cow, is dwindling down.

[Inccubus]

No he didnt, he said he wants to give the fans who liked it, more of what they want, and wants to try and bring around the fans who didnt like the first game.

he never specified "New or old" fans.

And for that matter, you are lumping every single older castlevania fan into the "did not like" folder.

I would consider myself an "older" castlevania fan in regards to the debate by virtue of being around since the original timeline, whereas the "new" ones are the ones that entered the franchise through LoS.

And I liked LoS, and would like to see more.

Don't assume that every single older fan hates LoS. Because he did not state that anywhere in the article.

True enough. I over generalized. However that still means he considers the opinions of people that didn't like LoS to be unimportant.

[uzo]

And I find it funny that you called "non-Castlevania fans" as "lowest common denominator". And Castlevania fans of course are "elite"? LOL.

Pandering to the lowest common denominator would be why they ripped out the unique factors of Castlevania, that set it apart from other generic fantasy settings.

Now it's not nice to put words in other people's mouths. You know better thank that, Sumac.

[Thunderbrand]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Dracula's castle in MoF/LoS2 has nothing in common with Carmilla's. Look at the LoS2 trailer or to the artwork, it's different.

The castle in MoF (judging from the 3DS map screenshot) is very similar to Carmilla's. In the LoS2 teaser however, that simply does NOT look like a castle to me at all! It looks like Gabula just steps out on a balcony of a big cathedral/church that is surrounded by a big outer wall with some random towers. I just can't see a castle there whatsoever. The last true & traditional castle we've seen in any recent console game was the Abandoled Castle in CoD...that sucker was a nice replica of the castle from CV1.

[Thomas Belmont]

I've been trying to avoid any potential spoilers so I haven't read many recent posts. Has it ever been mentioned whether Mirror Of Fate will take advantage of the Circle Pad Pro? I'm assuming that it won't, since it's a 2.5D game, but I don't own a 3DS yet and don't know how it's been used in the past. Thanks. 

[Akuma]

I've been trying to avoid any potential spoilers so I haven't read many recent posts. Has it ever been mentioned whether Mirror Of Fate will take advantage of the Circle Pad Pro? I'm assuming that it won't, since it's a 2.5D game, but I don't own a 3DS yet and don't know how it's been used in the past. Thanks.

I'm inclined to say no.  Not at this time anyway.

[Inccubus]

The castle in MoF (judging from the 3DS map screenshot) is very similar to Carmilla's. ...

It's the same castle as far as the story is concerned. Maybe they'll say something about Gabula being able to control it's shape or something.

[Thunderbrand]

It's the same castle as far as the story is concerned. Maybe they'll say something about Gabula being able to control it's shape or something.

Yep, maybe they'll delve into the "creature of chaos" thing in the game.

[Sindra]

Whoa, Cox only giving a shit about the series's games that he himself had a hand in making and not giving a rat's ass about what Castlevania fans prior to his game may want in terms of something different than what he gave us, because it's THE BEST SELLING CASTLEVANIA OF ALL TIME and that alone speaks volumes and means he shouldn't pander to those lowly complainers?!


Didn't see that one coming.



</sarcasm>

In all seriousness though, I marvel at the fact some developers feel that they can only do it one way or the other. How difficult is it to throw in a few things that would make a world of difference to some oldschool Castlevania fans, and still manage to keep a good majority of what made you all those big bucks? Why not try to find that happy medium? Wouldn't that net you a larger gross sum in the end by hitting an even wider demographic than previous?

[meanguyjones]

Whoa, Cox only giving a shit about the series's games that he himself had a hand in making and not giving a rat's ass about what Castlevania fans prior to his game may want in terms of something different than what he gave us, because it's THE BEST SELLING CASTLEVANIA OF ALL TIME and that alone speaks volumes and means he shouldn't pander to those lowly complainers?!


Didn't see that one coming.



</sarcasm>

In all seriousness though, I marvel at the fact some developers feel that they can only do it one way or the other. How difficult is it to throw in a few things that would make a world of difference to some oldschool Castlevania fans, and still manage to keep a good majority of what made you all those big bucks? Why not try to find that happy medium? Wouldn't that net you a larger gross sum in the end by hitting an even wider demographic than previous?

Not even what he said at all, but ok.

Guy pretty much said he was looking to please fans of LoS and bring people that didn't like LoS on board this time around. They're aiming to please everyone. They are looking for that happy medium.

Is this going to turn into another "forget what you know about castlevania thing"?

[DragonSlayr81]

How do you think he's looking to please those who weren't happy with LoS. For a start, maybe he just addressed the cosmetic look of the games. We are getting a game that looks more dark and spooky. But, like it was mentioned, a lot of people, those who didn't like LoS and people who DID like LoS, admitted that it was a chore to take down enemies. Maybe that type of notion could slide more in 3D, because battles have that whole extra dimension. But, carrying that sort of style into 2D, it doesn't make sense. I just read the Siliconera impressions, and they said it took about 10 hits just to take down one skeleton. WTF?

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/15/hands-on-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-mirror-of-fate/

I'm not saying a whole overhaul, but there needs to be some balance between appeasing LoS fans and winning back those who didn't care for it IF MS is really intending gaining favor for sides.

[Sumac]

Ironically it's us, the fans, that have the power. Would a casual gamer (you know, the "wii-sports" type) bother with a game like Lords of Shadow? Probably not. And the casual gamers outnumber us 10 to 1.
The fans have kept this series alive for so long, so to say we have little to do with how the series goes isn't really accurate.

As e105beta said, there is much more just video gamers who are neither devoted fans of Castlevania nor casual gamers (though I don't consider "casual" as approptiate term - Pac Man and Pong are as casual as you can get, yet they helped to create the whole market, but that's another topic). It is those gamers who make profit for Konami, not fans. It is because of them series is still alive, not because of fans, simply because there are not so many fans to make enough money for Konami to pay for the games development. Konami made Castlevanias because they were profitable, not because of the fans opinion, no matter how some people want to convince themselves otherwise. Konami will keep the series alive as long as it bring them money and ultimately it is not fans who make them. It is how it was working and it is how it will continue, if Castlevania will not rise to the importance and fame of Final Fantasy or Mario, but it is very unlikely.

Not really, because Castlevania fans, most of them, are on the series from the very beginning to the very end, so they know far better from someone who came to the series later, what they were known and what they have become. When you see that they have bastardized the game that for so many years you have loved, only for making more money, it's your right to complain and when someone who isn't fan of the series and has just played the last games, he can't criticize the fans for complaining, when he doesn't know what the old games they look like.

Most of them? This is simply untrue. You speak about CV fans as if all of them have become fans after the first game of the series. However, even on this forum many people said that their first Castlevania were other games: SOTN, COTM, CV2, CV3, SCV4, DOS, e.t.c. And bastardized...I am not considering LOS somehting like that. And many other people don't think about it in this terms. Also, bastardizing is quite a strong word, and I like to remind you, that for some people SOTN was bastardization of the series, no matter how strong its hype and your love glasses are.

Konami in the past has made an attempt to change the series with Simon's Quest, but it wasn't accepted like it was expected, so it return to the old formula, for game play mechanics and improving the exploration element of the games.

Sorry, but this is not true.
CV2 was only the second (major) release in the series. There were no series to speak of. There were no standard to speak of, except for the "some guy hunting creatures of the dark with the whip; final boss is Dracula". And Vampire Killer, which was "just a port of FDS Castlevania" was very removed from original game in terms of gameplay and even genre. So, basically there were TWO game styles for the future to choose from and CV2 was an attempt to merge them.

IGA was accused for game play copy paste, the same thing seems to do Cox with Mirror of Fate and LoS 2.

Wrong.
Several things:
1) There will be only three games with similar gameplay, if LOS2 plays similar to the LOS1, something that we still doesn't have solid confirmation for. 3 is not 7. Besides, given the difference in hardware, I believe MOF will be quite different from LOS in some aspects and its not like all three games released on the same platform, that's playing a major factor in "cloning".
2) MS said that they will not continue with LOS after LOS2.
3) Personally, I think, similarity in core gameplay of LOS is justified and it much closer to the core similarity that could be found in classic Castlevaia titles.
4) MS approach to the storyline is much more competent and thoughout rather than whatever IGA tried to do. I am not talking about quality of the story here, just about general approach - all three games are part of the trilogy - basically three chapters of one story. In case of IGA, if you forget, his games were just random stories that were jumping all over the timeline, rised more questions then answered and generally mostly confused timeline even more, rather than making it clearer.

At least IGA was having some respect for the fans of the series, old or new ones.

Giving amount of fanboyism and stupidity that spilled around LOS release and after, such characteristic was justified. Personally, I think he was pretty soft describing that situation.

[e105beta]

How do you think he's looking to please those who weren't happy with LoS. For a start, maybe he just addressed the cosmetic look of the games. We are getting a game that looks more dark and spooky. But, like it was mentioned, a lot of people, those who didn't like LoS and people who DID like LoS, admitted that it was a chore to take down enemies. Maybe that type of notion could slide more in 3D, because battles have that whole extra dimension. But, carrying that sort of style into 2D, it doesn't make sense. I just read the Siliconera impressions, and they said it took about 10 hits just to take down one skeleton. WTF?

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/15/hands-on-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-mirror-of-fate/

I'm not saying a whole overhaul, but there needs to be some balance between appeasing LoS fans and winning back those who didn't care for it IF MS is really intending gaining favor for sides.

Well, there's the cosmetics, the added exploration, the 2D format, etc. Just because the combat might need some re-balancing doesn't mean they're not trying to win over old fans. I mean, a half-glance at this game shows that they're at least TRYING. His point is, at least as far as I gathered it, that while it'll be good if they can please those who were unhappy with LoS, the people that like LoS are a more important audience to please because they're the reason LoS was as successful as it was.

[Reinhart77]

I've been trying to avoid any potential spoilers so I haven't read many recent posts. Has it ever been mentioned whether Mirror Of Fate will take advantage of the Circle Pad Pro? I'm assuming that it won't, since it's a 2.5D game, but I don't own a 3DS yet and don't know how it's been used in the past. Thanks.

I don't know why it wouldn't be supported.  I use it when playing Order of Ecclesia and it works fine.  It'd be interesting to know of the d-pad and circle could both be used, or if they'll force you to use one.  Perhaps the d-pad switches subweapons again?

Edit:  Too bad about no Richter or Christopher.  Guess the game isn't going to be as epic as I once imagined.  j/k, i don't know how they would have pulled that off anyways.

Guess it's time to speculate on how Alucard plays.  Mm, Sword, mist form, probably wolf form.  He's gotta have some fireball.  It'd be sad if he couldn't reach the areas Trevor could double jump to with a bat form, but I'll guess he doesn't get that ability for that reason.  It'd be neat if his his triple fireball went forwards, up-forwards, and down-forwards like in Dracula's Curse.  I suppose his sword will have all sorts of combos purchased with experience points.  Hope one move lets him throw it like the Heaven's Sword or Hector's sword throw.  Heh, maybe his sword could talk.  Would having a familiar encroach on Simon's guardian spirit ability too much?  There's just too many possibilities, yet he'll probably have a very limited ability set.

[e105beta]

I don't know why it wouldn't be supported.  I use it when playing Order of Ecclesia and it works fine.  It'd be interesting to know of the d-pad and circle could both be used, or if they'll force you to use one.  Perhaps the d-pad switches subweapons again?

Edit:  Too bad about no Richter or Christopher.  Guess the game isn't going to be as epic as I once imagined.  j/k, i don't know how they would have pulled that off anyways.

Didn't know the Circle Pad pro was backwards compatible with DS games. That's cool.