Topic: The Official Mirror of Fate Opinion Poll

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

I dunno, "I will never buy any LoS games --even in 2D..." seems pretty negative

I said "nuanced" negative, not "straight out black and white" negative.

Criticism becomes more nuanced once a game is actually played --or at the very least, seen in action.  This poll is more about gauging the forum's enthusiasm based on the first impressions.

Given only the level of info presented in the article, my opinion is still a lot more nuanced than any of your options allow.

As of right now however, the negatives don't need any detailed explanation.

They do if you actually want people to be able to vote for those options because they fit their opinion closely enough 

[cecil-kain]

Given only the level of info presented in the article, my opinion is still a lot more nuanced than any of your options allow.

They do if you actually want people to be able to vote for those options because they fit their opinion closely enough 

Considering the audience and the tone of the forum, it made sense to measure the outpouring of enthusiasm and support.  To some degree, I think we fans see what we want to see --like an ink blot.  A long time ago, I created a poll (much like this one) to measure pre-launch enthusiasm for LoS.  Then, about a month or 2 after the launch I created a follow-up poll to measure the post-gameplay criticism.

This poll could easily be simplified to say...  ---"Will you buy the game?"  1. Yes  2. No---  But the goal here was to pick out some correlations and basic shades of grey.  Right now the negative feedback is too small to get into all of the nitty-gritty criticisms.  I'm not saying they don't exist, it's just not the best time to measure that sort of thing in a meaningful way.

If you're really feeling short-changed by the options, you can always go the "Dark Priest" route.  Just out of curiousity, what option would you like to see me to add exactly?

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

Considering the audience and the tone of the forum, it made sense to measure the outpouring of enthusiasm and support.

Is there any meaning to measuring the level of support without including the options for the other side of the coin in the same detail? Unless everyone fits under at least one option in the poll's responses, you may get inaccurate data. That's why you see a lot of polls that are in a format with their options vaguely resembling "Yes, Probably so, Maybe, Probably not, No, Don't know" to cover the full gamut.

A long time ago, I created a poll (much like this one) to measure pre-launch enthusiasm for LoS. Then, about a month or 2 after the launch I created a follow-up poll to measure the post-gameplay criticism.

Not sure I quite get your implication. Are you saying the poll is following an inescapable cycle that goes with game releases where the hype train rolls out and the majority of the game's potential audience is anxious and eager for the game and afterwards they receive a let down and criticize the game's flaws? If so, I don't really like that type of paradigm. Maybe it's because I don't buy a lot of games so I don't feel like I can buy first and ask questions later, but I prefer something more like looking at what non-hype info they give you before release and forming an impression about whether I'll like the game or not that is hopefully accurate--rather than mostly support before release, criticism after.

Right now the negative feedback is too small to get into all of the nitty-gritty criticisms.  I'm not saying they don't exist, it's just not the best time to measure that sort of thing in a meaningful way.

I wouldn't necessarily expect that much nitty gritty, just a bit more options between the extreme negative and the really specific slightly negative ("interesting but not worth a 3DS buy"). Technically that probably isn't even negative, as it applies to almost every 3DS game for everyone, since most games aren't system sellers by themselves.

If you're really feeling short-changed by the options, you can always go the "Dark Priest" route.

"I don't know" wouldn't really accurately reflect my sentiment.

Just out of curiousity, what option would you like to see me to add exactly?

That was covered in my first post with "I can see I'll have real problems with the game from the description of it in the article, so I probably won't get it without more info." Heck even a "Probably won't get given current info" option would've sufficed and would probably be less specific.

[cecil-kain]

Is there any meaning to measuring the level of support without including the options for the other side of the coin in the same detail? Unless everyone fits under at least one option in the poll's responses, you may get inaccurate data. That's why you see a lot of polls that are in a format with their options vaguely resembling "Yes, Probably so, Maybe, Probably not, No, Don't know" to cover the full gamut.

In this particular case, the "whys" are only vaguely covered.  Right now over 46% are committing to the "Day 1 purchase" options, and neither of those two options give those a fans to chance to explain why they're in love with the game.  The only real distinction between the two is how many are going the extra mile to invest in the 3DS system.

The "whys" that are explored by the poll deal with the statistical glut of Castlevania fans that are struggling with change and expectations, but again --nothing too specific.  This is where you can see a distinction between fans that are leaning toward support --and those that are leaning against support.  Again, special consideration was also given based on the cost of 3DS influencing their decision.

And finally we have the Castlevania fans that are not willing to forgive LoS --for whatever reason.  Much like the "Day 1 purchases" are not asked to explain their motives --neither is the other side of the coin as you put it.

Not sure I quite get your implication. Are you saying the poll is following an inescapable cycle that goes with game releases where the hype train rolls out and the majority of the game's potential audience is anxious and eager for the game and afterwards they receive a let down and criticize the game's flaws? If so, I don't really like that type of paradigm. Maybe it's because I don't buy a lot of games so I don't feel like I can buy first and ask questions later, but I prefer something more like looking at what non-hype info they give you before release and forming an impression about whether I'll like the game or not that is hopefully accurate--rather than mostly support before release, criticism after.

There is a paradigm of the Hype/Disappointment cycle when you examine the before and after polling.  It's happened in the past, and it's likely to happen in the future.  Unfortunately, even those that make an honest effort to approach new games objectively, will end up buying products that sometimes exceed or fail to meet their expectations.  This can happen even with the advantage of sampling the game before they buy it.

I wouldn't necessarily expect that much nitty gritty, just a bit more options between the extreme negative and the really specific slightly negative ("interesting but not worth a 3DS buy"). Technically that probably isn't even negative, as it applies to almost every 3DS game for everyone, since most games aren't system sellers by themselves.

This gets back to the "whys" I mentioned earlier...  But let me see if I understand, the nuance of your position.  Is this a case, where you have no intention of buying the game, but "I will never buy any LoS games --even in 2D..." is too extreme for your opinion?  If so, I can easily fix that by toning down that particular option, and the same relevant data is collected.

"I don't know" wouldn't really accurately reflect my sentiment.

Fair enough.

That was covered in my first post with "I can see I'll have real problems with the game from the description of it in the article, so I probably won't get it without more info." Heck even a "Probably won't get given current info" option would've sufficed and would probably be less specific.



Hmmm...  If these are your true feelings, I would categorize you as leaning against supporting the game --as represented by the "once burned twice shy" option...

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

In this particular case, the "whys" are only vaguely covered.  Right now over 46% are committing to the "Day 1 purchase" options, and neither of those two options give those a fans to chance to explain why they're in love with the game.  The only real distinction between the two is how many are going the extra mile to invest in the 3DS system.

The "whys" that are explored by the poll deal with the statistical glut of Castlevania fans that are struggling with change and expectations, but again --nothing too specific.  This is where you can see a distinction between fans that are leaning toward support --and those that are leaning against support.  Again, special consideration was also given based on the cost of 3DS influencing their decision.

Your leaning towards support options are fine and not too specific, it's the negative ones that are either too extreme or too specific. I don't really find "whys" being entirely necessary in a poll like this if one doesn't care about finding them out at this point. What I am saying though, is that for those leaning against support, your options are either a little too extreme (NO LOS EVEN IN 2D!) or too specific (looks interesting, not worth buying a 3DS) to represent every possibility.

And finally we have the Castlevania fans that are not willing to forgive LoS --for whatever reason.  Much like the "Day 1 purchases" are not asked to explain their motives --neither is the other side of the coin as you put it.

I'm not necessary saying you -have- to represent the motives if you don't want to, just including somewhere in the poll the full gamut of "yes, prob yes, maybe, prob no, no," options. This is how one makes unbiased polls.

This gets back to the "whys" I mentioned earlier...  But let me see if I understand, the nuance of your position.  Is this a case, where you have no intention of buying the game, but "I will never buy any LoS games --even in 2D..." is too extreme for your opinion?  If so, I can easily fix that by toning down that particular option, and the same relevant data is collected.

Fair enough.

That might work, depending on what you tone it down to. But I'm not ruling out getting it if later info shows it shaping up in a different way than the current info, whereas that option seems to be set in stone and seems like a total black and white option that has no level of analysis or possibility for changing of ones mind once the game is determined to be LoS-based.


Hmmm...  If these are your true feelings, I would categorize you as leaning against supporting the game --as represented by the "once burned twice shy" option...

That I found too specific, as it says I was "burned" by LoS (I didn't buy it), and I take it as more of a maybe option with a reaction against LoS1 infused into it (making it a bit too specific) or a "waiting for cheaper price," since it says "maybe once it hits the bargain bin." It's really like what should be 3 options fused into one. "Maybe when it comes out." "Maybe once it gets cheaper." "I was burned by LoS so I'm extremely wary." Actually the last one isn't really even necessary if you don't want motives, since the earlier two still fit those people.

[angevil]

This is a biased poll..a lot of choices connected to buying 3DS. Five options go for buying and two against.

[cecil-kain]

Your leaning towards support options are fine and not too specific, it's the negative ones that are either too extreme or too specific. I don't really find "whys" being entirely necessary in a poll like this if one doesn't care about finding them out at this point. What I am saying though, is that for those leaning against support, your options are either a little too extreme (NO LOS EVEN IN 2D!) or too specific (looks interesting, not worth buying a 3DS) to represent every possibility.

That's a fair analysis.  I just tweaked the language in those two options to take the edge off.  :-)

I'm not necessary saying you -have- to represent the motives if you don't want to, just including somewhere in the poll the full gamut of "yes, prob yes, maybe, prob no, no," options. This is how one makes unbiased polls.

Bias is human nature --even if its unconscious.  It may have been prudent to add more options toward the negative, but the responses here are showing a heavy slant toward the positive --and that's to be expected of a fan forum.  Under normal circumstances, a poll like this should be showing a smooth J curve of positive enthusiasm, but the results are showing this glut of apprehension.  I created more "middle road" options to help explore this group in more detail because I expected these votes to heavily out-whiegh the negatives --and the results are bearing that out at this point.

That might work, depending on what you tone it down to. But I'm not ruling out getting it if later info shows it shaping up in a different way than the current info, whereas that option seems to be set in stone and seems like a total black and white option that has no level of analysis or possibility for changing of ones mind once the game is determined to be LoS-based.

You're forgetting about the option to change your vote.  ;-)

That I found too specific, as it says I was "burned" by LoS (I didn't buy it), and I take it as more of a maybe option with a reaction against LoS1 infused into it (making it a bit too specific) or a "waiting for cheaper price," since it says "maybe once it hits the bargain bin." It's really like what should be 3 options fused into one. "Maybe when it comes out." "Maybe once it gets cheaper." "I was burned by LoS so I'm extremely wary." Actually the last one isn't really even necessary if you don't want motives, since the earlier two still fit those people.

One the surface, this looks like buyer's remorse, but I think it's possible for some hardcore fans to feel "burned" by LoS without ever having purchased the game.  Maybe it was borrowed.  Maybe it was a rental.  Or maybe the new approach was so offensive they completely avoided it.  Regardless of that, Mirror of Fate may still be showing some potential...  Yes, this group could easily be divided further, but with only about 6% of the total vote, it's hardly worth deeper analysis at this particular time.

[cecil-kain]

This is a biased poll..a lot of choices connected to buying 3DS. Five options go for buying and two against.

Actually 5 options presume a 3DS is already owned --with 1 option to buy and 1 option not to buy.

[Puwexil]

I'm going to get it -- par for the course in case of any new installment in this series -- but I'm expecting not to like it.

[thernz]

are you even capable of loving anything, grouchy forum terrorist

[Puwexil]

I... love you.

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

Bias is human nature --even if its unconscious.  It may have been prudent to add more options toward the negative, but the responses here are showing a heavy slant toward the positive --and that's to be expected of a fan forum.  Under normal circumstances, a poll like this should be showing a smooth J curve of positive enthusiasm, but the results are showing this glut of apprehension.  I created more "middle road" options to help explore this group in more detail because I expected these votes to heavily out-whiegh the negatives --and the results are bearing that out at this point.

If you had created the full breadth of those negative options and they don't get used, then you're sure in your results--no harm done, so no real reason not to do it. It's hard to tell if you captured everyone who visited this thread in those options if some found that there was no option that entirely fit their position. That's one of the issues why one tries to make a breadth of options that will allow at least one to fit, no matter how vaguely. One of my issues with the options is that if you construct the poll expecting a certain outcome in mind, then create the full breadth of options for those outcomes and yet leave a less full breadth of options to cover the negative end of the spectrum, you can't really tell that you captured accurate results. If someone pops in, looks at the options, and none really fit his/her position and he/she decides not to post or vote for the "closest" option to him/her, you lose a potential data point. Even if the options change, that person may never return to the thread.

You're forgetting about the option to change your vote.  ;-)

I didn't forget that option--it's just that I wouldn't be able to vote for the "No LoS even in 2D" option given the way it's stated now in the first place. It's not really possible for me to vote for that one since it seems to indicate that just the game being set in the LoS universe totally precludes purchase. There are people who feel that way but I am not one of them.

Regardless of that, Mirror of Fate may still be showing some potential...  Yes, this group could easily be divided further, but with only about 6% of the total vote, it's hardly worth deeper analysis at this particular time.

What I'm saying is not that the people who already voted for that option need to be further subdivided. What I'm saying is that everyone who could've voted for some options apart may not have voted for them together, because a specific part of it may have fit them (Maybe once it gets to the bargain bin) but another part may not (Once burned, twice shy), resulting in 6%, down from a "real" combined 9% or something if both options were separate originally and everyone who could've voted did (sorry if this is a bit confusing, but it's hard to describe it without taking tons of space to do so).

Take an example since that may be more clear. Maybe you have people who weren't that impressed or interested by the game from the article so felt they'd likely to wait for the game to get cheaper if they were going to get it at all but liked LoS itself. They can't vote for "Once burned twice shy, maybe when it hits the bargain bin" since part of that implies they were burned by LoS when they liked it. They couldn't vote for the old "It's interesting, but not worth buying a 3DS for," since they don't identify with it looking that interesting. They certainly can't vote for "No LoS even in 2D." Maybe they could vote for the new "Not worth buying a 3DS for" option since that seems to be the largest catch-all negative option, depending on whether they think that implies they'd have to buy a 3DS to get the game (i.e. that they don't already have one) or whether they just interpret it as "this game doesn't look great--not a system seller."

Since that person didn't see an option that fit him or her, he or she may have just left and not voted, so what might've been an extra vote for an option is now no vote at all. The generic "not worth buying a 3DS for" may cover that now but it's probably a bit too late.

[e105beta]

Man, and I thought this was a simple poll about people's intentions to buy Mirror of Fate.

[Vampire Killer]

^^
Seriously.

And Charlotte, thanks for responding, but you don't seriously except me to read all that do you? Good Lord

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

Not necessarily, the only person I expect to read it is cecil-kain.