Topic: Why does Castlevania have no success on Nintendo's main consoles?

[Castlevania Crypt]

On the NES and SNES, Castlevania had several great games, but after that they never really had anything epic on a main Nintendo console (N64, Gamecube, Wii). To me they had the better games on Sony, and on Nintendo's handhelds.

While the Castlevania N64 games remind me of the older, PlayStation titles I just could never really get into those games. I think Legacy of Darkness had a little better reception, but Castevania 64 was considered a failure from what I remember reading.

Then they skipped Gamecube completely, and we have only seen 1 Castlevania title on the Wii, and that was a fighting game (Judgement). I did like The Adventure ReBirth though, but that was not a main, retail console game.

Now we hear that Lords of Shadow 2 will not be on the Wii, and at this time appears to not being considered for Wii U, although that could change later. But who is to blame for the lack of good Castlevania games on Nintendo's main consoles? Is it because Nintendo is family friendly and does not want the vampire gore on their main systems? Or is it just that Konami thinks the games will not sell enough on those systems to justify the cost of producing them?

[knightmere]

You bring up some good points. Personally I'm not sure why the lack of Big name CV's on Nintendo consoles. The days of squeaky clean Nintendo appears to have died off during the N64 era.  Remember when Mortal Kombat on the SNES was censored all to hell.  The inferior Genesis port sold way better and was more popular due NoAs rigidness back then. They seemed to start rethinking their policy on the issue after that cost them tons of $$.  Maybe Konami just felt the target demographic was more so on the Sony and Microsoft consoles because the stereotype that Nintendo is Family oriented.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I think it's more on Konami's behalf than because of the console.
Even now, some people (quite a few in this forum actually) consider the PS2 Castlevania 'okay'.  Nothing particularly ground-breaking.

It's just one of those franchises (somewhat like Mega Man) that did not take off with the advent of polygonal gaming, yet its spirit lives on in the land of the handhelds.  That, and it seems that during that N64/PSX and heading into PS2 time, Konami started to focus on other titles (Metal Gear Solid series, Silent Hill, DDR) and the less fruitful franchises took a hit with stagnancy.

When was the last GOOD Goemon title?  Have you heard much from Twinbee?  Parodius hasn't seen anything new since Saturn (though Otomedius is a spiritual successor... kinda).

Many Konami franchises have suffered, since Konami milks that Metal Gear Solid cash cow.

[RichterB]

A couple of points:

*Castlevania 64 actually did quite well in reviews from the time. EGM gave it a Silver Medal if I recall. The N64 games are flawed, a lot of the issues coming from limited technology, but I don't know where they got such an awful rap. (Personally speaking, in retrospect, I don't know that there has been a Castlevania game as ambitious since the two N64 games. I mean, I got varying degrees of amusement and/or joy out of the games since, but I don't find that they really pushed the brand forward to the extent the N64 games did).

*Konami had a plan to be as cross-platform as possible once given the opportunity. That's why we saw IV, Bloodlines, and Rondo all on different platforms over a short span of time. It allowed many different cool visions and ideas, but it ultimately and ironically diluted Castlevania's visibility it seems like.

*I have to imagine Castlevania was successful on the NES at least. However, it depends how you define "success." NES sales numbers don't mean the same thing as sale numbers from modern games.

I think it's more on Konami's behalf than because of the console...Many Konami franchises have suffered, since Konami milks that Metal Gear Solid cash cow.

I would go so far as to say Metal Gear has suffered from it, as well. I'm not sure that series is quite as iconic or fun as it used to be. It's lost some of it's identity, IMO.

PS: Contra's had some troubles, too. But two games are supposed to be in the works, so we'll see...

[beingthehero]

A lot of the N64 hate stemmed from Legacy of Darkness, of all things. While it's the ultimate version of the game, a lot of people felt that Konami gypped them by not releasing Legacy in the first place, since it had everything the first game had left out. They do the same thing today, except it's by way of DLC. I don't think they've aged as gracefully as their 2D peers, but they're a very interesting take on the series.

As for Nintendo, I don't think Castlevania has had a really strong presence there since the 16 bit era. I did find it odd that there was no Castlevania for the Gamecube, not even a port. Even the GC had the Twin Snakes. But then again, I'm still surprised the DS never had a Metal Gear or a Snatcher game. And the Nintendo DS was such a resounding success, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo considered it a main console.

[shelverton.]

Yeah, I think it's Konami's decision, not necessarily Nintendo's.
Also, to be honest, there was no Metal Gear Solid on the Wii. And Silent Hill hasn't had a proper game for a Nintendo console since... ever. Except Shattered Memories, I guess. Which was a ... remake? spinoff? Whatever.

It sometimes seems Konami treats Nintendo differently than they treat Sony or Microsoft. Dunno. Putting Curse of Darkness on the PS2 and Xbox, but not on the Gamecube is an example of that. Same with Silent Hill 2 and 4. And MGS 2.

Konami is strange sometimes, but at least they're putting some money into Castlevania. Like Jorge and others already said, many of their other franchises have been neglected for ages. I'd like to add Suikoden here too. I miss it.

[Neobelmont]

I think it's more on Konami's behalf than because of the console.
Even now, some people (quite a few in this forum actually) consider the PS2 Castlevania 'okay'.  Nothing particularly ground-breaking.

It's just one of those franchises (somewhat like Mega Man) that did not take off with the advent of polygonal gaming, yet its spirit lives on in the land of the handhelds.  That, and it seems that during that N64/PSX and heading into PS2 time, Konami started to focus on other titles (Metal Gear Solid series, Silent Hill, DDR) and the less fruitful franchises took a hit with stagnancy.

When was the last GOOD Goemon title?  Have you heard much from Twinbee?  Parodius hasn't seen anything new since Saturn (though Otomedius is a spiritual successor... kinda).

Many Konami franchises have suffered, since Konami milks that Metal Gear Solid cash cow.

Suikoden and contra and what about rocket knight 

[Ratty]

*Konami had a plan to be as cross-platform as possible once given the opportunity. That's why we saw IV, Bloodlines, and Rondo all on different platforms over a short span of time. It allowed many different cool visions and ideas, but it ultimately and ironically diluted Castlevania's visibility it seems like.

Interesting and important point. Even in the old days Konami made some "what?" decisions, spreading out CV across so many systems is one of them. Rather than making the series visible and playable for those who owned all of these systems, the effect seems to have mostly been an eroding of brand-loyalty and recognition.
Konami's limitation of Castlevania to mostly Sony consoles for a good while after the PSX/N64 might be a result of this. I'd suppose that the decision to go with Sony over Nintendo for ambitious console games was influenced by the landslide success of SotN over the N64 titles. To corporate suites, this would have probably translated as "Playstation users like Castlevania more."* Metroidvania was just a natural fit for handhelds once the powerful GBA came along, and this just continued into the DS naturally. Since it was practically a taboo to release a 2D game on last-gen consoles but there was clearly still a demand.
It's also as Jorge said just that Konami hasn't seemed to care as much about the IP in the last decade or so. I mean, the Gamecube got a MGS title, even if it was a remake.

PS- My guess as to why LoS/LoS2 won't come to Nintendo consoles anytime soon is that Nintendo's hardware is/will be so much less powerful than the other big two that Konami doesn't feel rebuilding the game for a port on them would be worth it.

*Since CoD was a cross-platform release rather than a console exclusive, mayhap they were underwhelmed by the performance of LoI and were aiming to test the Xbox consumer market without investing in an entire new game.

[Omegasigma]

Id say all the 2D's one did well, the 64's did change it, but I agree not much has changed since then, even some of those elements are in LoS, mostly the edge grabbing and sliding along said edges, it wasnt used in any other 3D, but alot would have to be due konami, judgment would have been alot better, as I recall Koji Igarashi was saying in an interview that konami only allows XX funds per game, so he wasnt able to make great games like he wanted, I can understand this from a finacial point

[Vampire Killer]

As far as LoS2 not being on the Wii, that has everything to do with the Wii being an underpowered system compared to the 360 and PS3. The WiiU has yet to prove itself at all, so it makes sense for Konami not to want to put the time into developing LoS2 for that system.

Besides, MoF is, as far as we know, exclusive to the 3DS. So it's not like Konami is ignoring Nintendo (almost every Cv for the past decade, before LoS, was a DS or GBA exclusive), just playing it smart.

[uzo]

When was the last GOOD Goemon title?

Goemon's Great Adventure (N64) was the last one I recall being good. Have I missed anything since then?

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

There were some GBA ones that didn't get ported to the USA and weren't all that great, including a more 'realistic Goemon'-looking one.
Best not to talk about 'em.

[Dominus]

Ummm...one would think that handhels are Nintendo's "main consoles" tbh

[crisis]

couldn't resist XD