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Offline Belmont Stakes

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This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« on: June 11, 2012, 06:28:27 PM »
-3
I am gonna post this despite the AVGN's and Egoraptor's rant on this game and anyone else who pisses, moans and drinks
Rolling Rock. Please forgive me for beating a dead horse or vampire or whatever but that is why we play these games so we can do those things.
With that let's get started with how this game got the shit end of the stick.

1. Multi directional scrolling

In SCVIV second level this works, in CVII it doesn't. Why? Because the Super NES is a better system for one but CVII doesn't have any points where it reverts to straight up to down or left to right scrolling. The diagonal scrolling slows the game down. Check out Bionic Commando. That game gets it right. Also I noticed that in this game screens only load graphics when you exit an area on the left or the right but not if you go up or down stairs (similar to ladders in NG3's case). I don't get that. It takes away from the feel of the game I think. If you fall down a pit in CV or DC you die but Simon's Quest you die only if there is water, spikes below or if you land on an enemy when having low health but you have to wait five hours before you land. Again
slow down.

2. Too many players on the field. If you look at the CV and CVIII this doesn't happen. You can have four zombies and a bat
coming to suck your whatever and give you putrification and herpes. Yet there is no slow down. In contrast CVII has this issue.
Let's think about the disappearing monster trick. If you are in the first game and you out pace a zombie and it ends up out
of the screen it doesn't come back. If you are walking in a CVII town and you see a zombie flash on the edge of the screen
it's coming after you and after four of them there is slow down. The fact that there are certain random trigger or cue points
for an enemy to appear and attack makes enemy placement in the other two games look innovative, challenging and ground breaking. Enemies spawn and re-spawn sometimes randomly in the other games but here it's fixed spots that don't change.

3. The waste of space. If you look at the map of CVII you will notice there is a lot of open space that is never used. There
are certain areas in the game that serve no purpose. Bordia Mountains oh look invisible staircase. Debious Woods has this open area with the gypsy to find to give your whip fire but there is no danger here. This can be attributed to the fact that the game has an open world design. I.E do you notice that you can go anywhere that there are no blocks barring your way. If you use a code to jump Yuba Lake you will end up in Marsh or cemetery and if you do it in the other Lake near Debious Woods you end up stuck in the wall. Which brings me to the next issue.

4. Mirroring. The mansions and certain areas are unique in design and yet other areas of this game are carbon copies. Why is this?Veros looks like Yomi and Doina. The bridges and certain forests look identical. You never see that in CV and maybe twice in CVIII.

5. Lack of diversity. These monsters and other characters need to take up affirmative action suits and demand a more robust
line of enemies and towns folk to piss off Simon. Skeletons are overused and werewolves are used in one area. You already
know about the lack of level ending bosses so lets move on shall we?

6. Re-spawn points. Egoraptor brought this up. unless you jump from a high place into water or lose fighting Dracula you end
up re-spawning where you last stood. In Zelda II you at least get sent back to the entrance point of any screen. It's one thing
and bad enough to coddle a kid in sports but in video games???? VIDEO GAMES????? C'MON! Are you fucking shittin me?!!

7. Lack of diverse graphics. Open up the Simon's Quest ROM. The graphics are recycled and never really change except in rare
instances (see point 4). I mean the graphics in Dr Jeckyll and Mister Hyde could have been used in this game and then they would have been actually served a purpose as opposed to being squandered in a game that has so many flaws like this one.

8. Lack of hazards. In CVIII you have areas with water that push you left or right and although places like Vlad Mountain and
Rover mansion have a similar hazard in them they don't have birds, or other flying monsters or projectiles further impeding your path. Plus with no time limit there
is no sense of urgency.

9. The improper use of secondary weapons. Holy water has been one of the biggest challenge killers in the series in this game it is basically for stunning and
destroying walls but it has very little use. The flame makes searching for and acquiring all other weapons in the game useless. The rib gives you a shield which would
be fair in the later parts of the game but in the early parts I want to dodge fireballs and yes I realize you can not destroy them only the monster who shoots them.
Dagger.....useless needs to be powered up or traded like the crystal for a stronger knife. There is no Axe no Stop Watch and no Boomerang. Lame. Also no way to
acquire them without hearts as currency. Should have had money in the game to buy stuff.

10. No candles, no secret treasures no switches. Nuff said.

There are other things I don't like but I will leave it at that. This game in many ways is the poster child and prototype for every disappointment in the series.
It may have been a harbinger for the failures to follow.

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Offline shelverton.

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 11:18:31 PM »
0

Hm. I think you're being pretty hard on this game. It's definitely not my favorite in the series, but I enjoy it for what it is.

Anyway, I think some of the issues you bring up here (such as the empty game world) are valid, and I've often wondered if the game was maybe released in a somewhat unfinished state? When I play Simon's Quest I've always felt like the developers wanted to do more things with this game but time and hardware restrictions made them abandon a lot of stuff. Maybe the game was a bit too ambitious for the NES?

This is why I think Simon's Quest is the Castlevania game that most deserves a fullfledged remake. Konami could do so many great things with it, cause the foundation and the overall concept is pretty great. Though the empty and lonely game world actually kinda still attracts me, so I wouldn't want them to turn Simon's Quest into a loud, in-your-face anime Metroidvania with too much story or too many characters. It needs to be mysterious.

Maybe the atmosphere in Simon's Quest was unintentional, but it's very eerie and strange (in a good way).

Offline JR

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 01:53:53 AM »
0
Though the empty and lonely game world actually kinda still attracts me, so I wouldn't want them to turn Simon's Quest into a loud, in-your-face anime Metroidvania with too much story or too many characters.

Same here. I really liked that desolate, abandoned feeling some of the locations had. I liked how it fit in with the story, too.

Although it's been criticized, I loved the color palette, too...I thought it added to the atmosphere pretty well.
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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 05:04:30 AM »
0
I don't hate the game, I like the RPG aspects of it. I felt it sort of paved the way for SOTN a little. There were some difficult parts of Simon's Quest where some first time players may have no idea what they are supposed to do, or where they are supposed to go.

Offline Thunderbrand

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 07:08:29 AM »
+2
1. Multi directional scrolling

In SCVIV second level this works, in CVII it doesn't. Why? Because the Super NES is a better system for one but CVII doesn't have any points where it reverts to straight up to down or left to right scrolling. The diagonal scrolling slows the game down. Check out Bionic Commando. That game gets it right. Also I noticed that in this game screens only load graphics when you exit an area on the left or the right but not if you go up or down stairs (similar to ladders in NG3's case). I don't get that. It takes away from the feel of the game I think. If you fall down a pit in CV or DC you die but Simon's Quest you die only if there is water, spikes below or if you land on an enemy when having low health but you have to wait five hours before you land. Again
slow down.

2. Too many players on the field. If you look at the CV and CVIII this doesn't happen. You can have four zombies and a bat
coming to suck your whatever and give you putrification and herpes. Yet there is no slow down. In contrast CVII has this issue.
Let's think about the disappearing monster trick. If you are in the first game and you out pace a zombie and it ends up out
of the screen it doesn't come back. If you are walking in a CVII town and you see a zombie flash on the edge of the screen
it's coming after you and after four of them there is slow down. The fact that there are certain random trigger or cue points
for an enemy to appear and attack makes enemy placement in the other two games look innovative, challenging and ground breaking. Enemies spawn and re-spawn sometimes randomly in the other games but here it's fixed spots that don't change.

3. The waste of space. If you look at the map of CVII you will notice there is a lot of open space that is never used. There
are certain areas in the game that serve no purpose. Bordia Mountains oh look invisible staircase. Debious Woods has this open area with the gypsy to find to give your whip fire but there is no danger here. This can be attributed to the fact that the game has an open world design. I.E do you notice that you can go anywhere that there are no blocks barring your way. If you use a code to jump Yuba Lake you will end up in Marsh or cemetery and if you do it in the other Lake near Debious Woods you end up stuck in the wall. Which brings me to the next issue.

4. Mirroring. The mansions and certain areas are unique in design and yet other areas of this game are carbon copies. Why is this?Veros looks like Yomi and Doina. The bridges and certain forests look identical. You never see that in CV and maybe twice in CVIII.

5. Lack of diversity. These monsters and other characters need to take up affirmative action suits and demand a more robust
line of enemies and towns folk to piss off Simon. Skeletons are overused and werewolves are used in one area. You already
know about the lack of level ending bosses so lets move on shall we?

6. Re-spawn points. Egoraptor brought this up. unless you jump from a high place into water or lose fighting Dracula you end
up re-spawning where you last stood. In Zelda II you at least get sent back to the entrance point of any screen. It's one thing
and bad enough to coddle a kid in sports but in video games???? VIDEO GAMES????? C'MON! Are you fucking shittin me?!!

7. Lack of diverse graphics. Open up the Simon's Quest ROM. The graphics are recycled and never really change except in rare
instances (see point 4). I mean the graphics in Dr Jeckyll and Mister Hyde could have been used in this game and then they would have been actually served a purpose as opposed to being squandered in a game that has so many flaws like this one.

8. Lack of hazards. In CVIII you have areas with water that push you left or right and although places like Vlad Mountain and
Rover mansion have a similar hazard in them they don't have birds, or other flying monsters or projectiles further impeding your path. Plus with no time limit there
is no sense of urgency.

9. The improper use of secondary weapons. Holy water has been one of the biggest challenge killers in the series in this game it is basically for stunning and
destroying walls but it has very little use. The flame makes searching for and acquiring all other weapons in the game useless. The rib gives you a shield which would
be fair in the later parts of the game but in the early parts I want to dodge fireballs and yes I realize you can not destroy them only the monster who shoots them.
Dagger.....useless needs to be powered up or traded like the crystal for a stronger knife. There is no Axe no Stop Watch and no Boomerang. Lame. Also no way to
acquire them without hearts as currency. Should have had money in the game to buy stuff.

10. No candles, no secret treasures no switches. Nuff said.

11. None of the above matters because Simon's Quest is awesome.
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Offline TheouAegis

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 09:43:19 AM »
0
There was nothing random in CV3. The "randomly spawning" enemies in CV3 were handled by controller objects placed at specific points in the room. They were programmed to spawn an enemy (zombie, bat, medusa head, or winged demon) at specific intervals as soon as the controller object came into view. Killing the enemy would reset the counter. The only reason it seemed random was because Trevor was always moving.. The only thing "random" in CV3 was the password generator and the speed at which enemies moved (see my thread in the Fan Stuff forum), and even that was scripted to the point a robot could account for any randomness.
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Offline Thomas Belmont

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 09:51:55 AM »
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It saddens me when people belittle Simon's Quest. I love that game!

Offline Sumac

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2012, 03:30:07 PM »
0
Quote
11. None of the above matters because Simon's Quest is awesome.
Precisely. CV2 is one of my favorite games in the series, thanks to the lonely atmosphere and little interesting things here and there. The only thing that this game should had is a in game map and clearer tips on what player objective is.

1. There are no problems with diagonal scrolling. Game works normal. If anything, it maybe affecting something for you, but from technical standpoint it is works absolutely normal.

2. I don't see a problem here. Slowdown is minimal and enemies spawn quite afar from the player, so there is no problem whatsoever in countering them. And no, in other Castlevanias enemies have fixed spawns, except for random moving enemies like Bats or Medusa Heads.

3. It is absolutely normal from a design standpoint. It works for atmosphere of the game and give a breathing space for the player.

4. The game is very big and NES is not powerfull enough to give every area an unique look. It is normal and not a problem also. Besides there is no reason to make woods or town look different. Woods ae woods. There is only so many ways you can make them look.

5. Bullshit. Many areas has unique monsters (Firemen, Medusa Heads, Harpies, Eyaballs, Clawmen, Slimes e.t.c.). Yes, Skeletons are in every area, but I believe developers thought it would be a good iea to have a common regular enemy, since the game is not divided by levels.

6. Bullshit. Never had any problems with that. It is very comfortable that you respawn in the last place you've died - you can immediately try to overcome obstacle instead of waiting to get to it. If you have problems with that more likely you need to train better in this game.

7. Horrible crime. Not. Many games recycle sprites. CV3 recysle a lot of things for example.

8. CV2 is built in different way than CV1 and CV3. One should remember it before accusing game in some shit. Exploration first, action second.

9. Bullshit. Want challenge? Shut down shield and jump over the projectiles to your heart content. Maybe evelopers go a bit overboard with daggers, but all other weapon could be used in different situations. And Holy Water is mostly for estroying walls in this game. Experimenting is good.

10. Practically none of the other Castlevanias had secret treasures, aside from AK68K. And monsters give you stuff instead of candles. No big deal. If you are not one of this obsessed individuals who like superficial stuff over important things.

In short this list is overblown bullshit, much like AVGN's review (despite my great respect for this reviewer).

Offline TheouAegis

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 04:09:07 PM »
0
2. I don't see a problem here. Slowdown is minimal and enemies spawn quite afar from the player, so there is no problem whatsoever in countering them. And no, in other Castlevanias enemies have fixed spawns, except for random moving enemies like Bats or Medusa Heads.

*points to post above this quote*

Bats and Medusa Heads weren't random. Their spawns were very simplistically structured. As long as the spawn control object was within Trevor's view, it would spawn a bat or Medusa Head (or any other constant spawn) at a position relative to Trevor's y-coordinate based on Trevor's position in the stage.

The NES games actually had no true randomness. Like I said, you could program a robot to play through the game in such a way that every play-through would be the EXACT same. So if you think CV and CV3 were good games because of the enemy placements, including the constant spawners, then tip your hat to the designers because every aspect of CV3 was tightly scripted without a shred of randomness. Of course, one could simply adjust the definition of "random" to make CV games legitimately random -- everything is coded based on one (or, once in a blue moon, two) constantly increasing (or decreasing) bytes, but I'm just saying.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 04:12:50 PM by TheouAegis »
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Offline Gaawa-chan

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 04:14:25 PM »
0
In short this list is overblown bullshit, much like AVGN's review (despite my great respect for this reviewer).

Didn't the creator of the AVGN say that he actually likes Simon's Quest in a 'the making of' video?


Anyway... what I find funny is that you didn't even mention one of the most commonly complained about features- how cryptic the game can get.  In a remake of Simon's Quest this could be easily dealt with by fixing dialogue.  What I would do is keep in the 'lying townsfolk' but add in a log that automatically kept notes on what each villager said.  I'd also add an item you could get that would help you tell if a villager was lying or not.  There you go.  Maintains the original intent of the game while improving the system.

I feel the need to repeat what Sumac said: There is NOTHING wrong with the respawn points.  You know what made Zelda II so unbearable for so many players?  The fact that you could claw your way through the palaces only to run out of lives at the very end and have to start from the very beginning of the world (exception is the final palace), over and over and over.  I think that respawning at the start of a screen would be an acceptable middle ground.

As far as recycled area appearances and enemies go, that's very common in NES games- heck, it's very common in Castlevania, period!  But I would hope that if the game is ever remade that they give each area a little more uniqueness.  Same goes for the mansions (would be really cool if each mansion looked very different).  And I think it's indisputable that the game could use more, better bosses.  Succubus would be a good choice as there wasn't one in I or III.

Quote
8. Lack of hazards.

I agree that the game could use some more environmental hazards/platforming additions (OoE's trees that you could jump on would be an awesome addition to Simon's Quest's forests, for example).  But... um, there were hazards that attacked you from above in the mansions.  Slimes and spiders are the ones I remember off the top of my head... I think there were also falling spikes and maybe falling boulders somewhere, and then there are monsters on higher levels throwing projectiles that can hit you.

My real beef with this point of yours is the complaint about time.  I prefer the time mechanic in Simon's Quest. I think it's neat that you've gotta book it to get the good ending.  Only complaints with the time systems are the lack of night/day only monsters beyond the towns and the amount of time it takes to transition from day to night to day.


Quote
9. Holy water has been one of the biggest challenge killers in the series in this game it is basically for stunning and destroying walls but it has very little use. The flame makes searching for and acquiring all other weapons in the game useless.

*facepalm*  Holy water was given a new use, flame took on the old role of the holy water.  The HORROR!


Quote
The rib gives you a shield which would be fair in the later parts of the game but in the early parts I want to dodge fireballs and yes I realize you can not destroy them only the monster who shoots them.

I agree; I think the rib and eye should swap places.


Quote
Dagger.....useless needs to be powered up or traded like the crystal for a stronger knife. There is no Axe no Stop Watch and no Boomerang. Lame.

Daggers should have replaced each other.  There should have been an axe and the cross you get near the end of the game should have been a sub-weapon.  The stop-watch is completely unnecessary as the game is but it could be worked in and made useful with modifications to level design.


Quote
Also no way to acquire them without hearts as currency. Should have had money in the game to buy stuff.

EXP should have been given automatically when you kill monsters, and they should have dropped money and on rare occasions meat.  Hearts should have been in candlesticks in towns and mansions, and in other natural places outside (like cocoons, rocks, bushes, etc).


I can think of LOTS of little tiny things that would make Simon's Quest better, and only three big ones.  Level design could have been more nuanced, experience/money/sub-weapon ammo system could use updating, and it needs more, better bosses.


As it is I still love Simon's Quest.  The atmosphere is absolutely fantastic.

Offline knightmere

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 05:27:08 PM »
0
My only problems with Simon's Quest are 1: The villagers whose hints are supposed to give you direction, are mostly useless and confusing.  Its been debated whether the lines are just poorly translated or the devs were intentionally trying to confuse the player. And 2: The game is very easy and the fact you can just walk past some of the bosses.  Other than these two issues, I really enjoy the game and its creepy atmosphere.  It was an important entry for the series as it built off the RPG elements introduced in Vampire Killer, and improved on them greatly.

Offline e105beta

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 05:46:50 PM »
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Simon's Quest gave us such an awesome soundtrack. That makes up for all of its flaws, IMO

Why Yamane never remixed Dwelling of Doom or Monster Dance is beyond me

Offline Gaawa-chan

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 05:51:26 PM »
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Why Yamane never remixed Dwelling of Doom or Monster Dance is beyond me

Also has one of my favorite menu songs and death songs.

Offline e105beta

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 06:10:23 PM »
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Also has one of my favorite menu songs and death songs.

Message of Darkness creeped me the balls out when I was a kid:
Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest- Message of Darkness (Title Screen)

Offline Neobelmont

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Re: This is what is wrong with Simon's Quest.
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2012, 08:41:09 PM »
0
It saddens me when people belittle Simon's Quest. I love that game!

I like it somewhat, but I get really bored of it at points, also I never heard anything bad about this game till AVGN reviewed it, sort of how like out of nowhere cv64 sucked or something, next someone is going to say ScvIV is misguided/ or sucks because all what matters is the whip or something  :rollseyes: it's freaking annoying.
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Come on now this was going to happen eventually  :P

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