Topic: Castlevania Chronicles - Dracula's Curse

[BLOOD MONKEY]

Thing is, Kale did not give the truth, he just said that the Sypha sprites were a pile 'o' shit, which they are not. He COULD have said the truth, with constructive criticism, but he didn't. He just bad-mouthed somebody's hard work without giving a good reason behind his disliking of the sprites. Kale provided no details for us to read and process.

[the_truth]

Thing is, Kale did not give the truth, he just said that the Sypha sprites were a pile 'o' shit, which they are not. He COULD have said the truth, with constructive criticism, but he didn't. He just bad-mouthed somebody's hard work without giving a good reason behind his disliking of the sprites. Kale provided no details for us to read and process.

He never said they were shit.... he said they looked horrible. And I agree. The ones in Lasunder's remake look WAY better, but are sadly just edits.

And he gave a reason below; several in fact. He also complimented one animation.

Holy crap... Sypha looks... horrible. That swing... ugh. Looks like she's waving a magic wand.
Spell looks... pretty cool, but not very well angled. Too much upward and not enough in the other direction.

But that staff attack while kneeling down looks nice though.

 I on the other hand, will not waste my time giving details; ANYONE can see those sprites need more work. That's NOT to say that even making something like this one doesn't take a LOT of work; but the artist should be able to also view his work OBJECTIVELY and admit to himself that it does need some touching up, and seek the aforementioned help he needs. Vs. taking it personally when someone states the obvious.
 

Wow....the truth is that bugs never show up alone. You his infant troll son?

Nope, but if I was son, what would you do about it? Bore me to death? 

[Dracula9]

True, but I don't entirely think he was as much of a big bad guy as he's being made out to be. Sure, he probably could've said that with a little more detail (and maybe a dash of tact, but that's a matter of opinion), but I see what he meant.

What (I gathered) Kale meant is that, by comparison to the rest of Sypha's animations, that overhead staff swing, though clearly meant as an homage of sorts to her original NES animation, looks very out-of-place with the extremely smooth and detailed remainder of them. It probably has a lot to do with the angle she swings it at, since the rest of her animations show her face and front, while this covers it and thusly sticks out a bit like a sore thumb. The abrupt stop of the swing back to her idle stance plays a part, too. I'd personally suggest working on it as it is, or perhaps trying other animations and angles (I could see swings like Alucard's swipe or just a horizontal sweep in front of her like the Owl Knight's/Royal/Final Guard's working well here), but ultimately it's your call. I won't tell you how to make your game. Just trying to bring a little bit of the heat off of Kale, since all he really did was post his opinion; albeit a little rough in wording.

[BMC_War Machine]

Remember that horse you have to kill on CV4, the one the first boss is on?  Ya know, the DEAD ONE?  Yeah, id say that points been reached

@ the_truth
I can repsect your input to this, but what I cant figure is how you can take kales first post and comment with it saying hes not going about it the wrong way. Nows time for opinion: his choice of words? Sucked. Thats what was "horrible" and I think now hes the one thinking "ugh" for that statement.  Heres the deal. Im cool with constructive criticism,  IMO that can only help make the game even better.  You and kale seem to be the only two not understanding why you get all this backlash.  Let me help you out.  A great example of stern, constructive criticism I have received can be seen in the beginning to middle of the thread from Vlad. He spoke honestly and never came off as insulting. Thats what constructive criticism is.  I honestly think kale understands now where he dropped the ball and hes dealing with it.. you, however seem to miss the point just like he did in his post. Look man, if you dig Las' s, thats great.  I think that ANY fan making a true work ofCV for the passion of it and the want to share with other fans should get kudos.  Do I have to do this? Shit no, but I love it and others do as well so shit yeah im gonna do it.  But dont come here being an ass about it and throwing las or anyone else's work here as well, positive or negative!  You want to do that? Then troll to the thread that has something to do with it...chances are they wont be as forgiving as what youve got here thus far.  So ill close with this, and pay attention now; CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.   If youre not part of the solution then youre part of the problem.

[darkmanx_429]

I have to agree with some points and then not so much for others. Anyways, I agree with Warmachine about beating a dead horse.

This is not directed a any particular person, but what is with noobs with only a handlful of comments trying to jump the bandwagon and start a flame war? Lets also lose the cap locks..

Look I will keep it simple, let's save comparison's of other people's projects until the end of both games. Then we can all drop constructive conclusions. Remember, this is a work in progress...
 
If you make a comment about something you don't like (and to Kale's credit he did mention some things in particular that could be fixed in the game)please list specific reason's why and suggestions as to what could be done to fix them.

If you haven't figured it out, the reason we are asking for constructive criticism and more importantly suggestions, is because these are all fixable issues. Some people really can't get over one aspect of animation and mention anything else that could be tweaked on the stage, really?

Finally, Warmachine has also been actively releasing Beta versions of certain stages which goes back to my first point I haven't seen many people that are trying to take sides actually post anything in that regard. I think a lot of the animation issues could be addressed in those beta's that have been released. It's ok to PM Warmachine and ask to be part of the testing process.

Let's get the thread back to improving the product, move off bashing Kale, move off the mentioning of other people's projects in this thread unless the creator is cool with that (I am sure Las would not appreciate someone coming on his project thread and talking about Warmachine's game), and let's just get back to everyone brainstorming how to make the project better for the release and providing solid ideas!

[BMC_War Machine]

This ^ so much this

[SabinFigaro]

I don't get why this is turning into a debate. You guys are draining a lot of energy from the main man. Jesus Christ, if you like the Sypha sprite, then great, if not, well offer a hand or at least temperate your goddamn mouths, cause you are coming off as trolls. Is the Sypha's sprite going to ruin your gaming experience? Is it gonna make you enjoy the game less? If yes, well choose Alucard or Grant or else, go Rambo-style with Trevor alone, but stop bitching. I mean, it's possible that Kale didn't use the right choice of words, but to perpetuate the bickering is pointless. My last post on the subject. How about some support for these guys? I'm sure WarMachine has better things to do than to defend his spriter.

[Gunlord]

Yeah, I'm with Darkman and SabinFigaro. *puts on mod hat* Now, I've known Kale for a while (we've both been here for quite some time) and he's not that bad; he can be blunt but he isn't malicious or ill-meaning. Maybe he could have extended his critique, but since he clarified he was just stating his thoughts, I don't think we need to spend any more time on the subject.

Now, back on topic. Judging from the video, things are progressing quite well! The controls and gameplay seem pretty smooth. I have some critiques about the sound, though. I'm not sure if it's just me or my speakers, but there seems to be some conflict between the music and the sound effects, whenever Sypha makes her attacking noises, the music seems to lower in volume for a second, which can be distracting if it happens a lot. Since it's just an early build, though, I suspect this problem will be corrected in the future?

[darkmanx_429]

I'll feel free to give my opinion how I like, WHEN I feel like it, thank you very much; I could care less if you think I'm an ass or if it doesn't fit you and your team's desired format, or if me comparing your game to other comparable fan ones bothers you. I am not breaking ANY forum rules here so if the truth hurts, maybe you should learn to deal with it, and approach your work more OBJECTIVELY, rather than you and your (and I use this word VERY loosely) "crew" getting so overly hurt over someone stating the obvious.

Oh and as for you being "forgiving"... lol let me point out that thus far I have actually been VERY nice, considering how many critiques I have of this thing. I could point out:

*the non matching parallax backgrounds (starting at 1:41)
*the lack of proper transparency and blend mode use on things like the flames sypha makes and explosions
*Sypha's awkward animation when walking down stairs
*the game having little to no particles and thus not being nearly as aesthetically pleasing
*the visually boring death animations on some things like the axe armor, that basically involved cutting the sprite into a handful of pieces and rotating them, then dropping them in a pile or the winged guard not going to pieces and just bursting into a single explosion
*the fact that your explosions & flames ripped from SOTN don't seem to have properly timed animations, along with the zombie's animation being messed up
*The three GLITCHES in the demo video; one involving a skeleton, one with the mountain background popping up when you jump, and the one that even kills sypha when she appears to get stuck on the stairs
*The choice of sound effect for the ice hitting the ground was not very good considering it is used as a sound for SHATTERING glass originally; and that there are literally THOUSANDS of other better sound you could have picked

But knowing you and your little "crew", instead of taking that as "constructive criticism" (or even better: FREE QA work), you would probably consider that me being an "ass"  and react in an overly sensitive, and completely irrational manner, akin to a pregnant roach who just had her egg sac stepped on. So by all means, you guys feel free to come back at me with some angry little rant, insulting me again; instead of going back and trying to fix some of these many and to me obvious issues. Because reading text from a bunch of strangers ragging on me all at once is sooooooo going to hurt my feelings. 

Oh and BTW: I happen to be VERY well versed in GM 8.1, studio and Unity 4, and have been part of several projects in the past working as a coder,  doing QA/bug testing, and even doing things such as setting up animations and graphical effects. So yes, I know what I am talking about, and what is involved in making something like this.

On a side note: did anyone else notice how Darkman says something isn't directed at someone; then blatantly posts something that could only apply to me? All the while accusing me of trying to start a flame war, while he himself ironically is the one doing so, since I didn't even say one word to him? Even going so far as to call me a N00b. SMH, seriously. At least have the stones to be a man, and come right at me; versus playing some passive aggressive BS game like a chump.

P.S. Sorry to the mods if some if this is inflammatory; but after reading the rubbish directed at me by several people, I was not about to sit here and just be silent. But I'm done here; these guys can feel free to post whatever about me, it doesn't change the truth of their situation in the least. No matter how deep in denial they want to be.

Um, actually I didn't mean anyone particular at all Truth and if I was talking directly to you I would post it to directly to you as I am doing now. If you think that what I wrote to you applies to you directly then you have proved my point exactly and you should reevaluate how you are coming across unless that is too much for your little ego.

You want to drop stats on being an expert at Unity, GM, and doing QA (which is not so big of a deal) well news flash, Warmchine and I are usingMMF2/Fusion 2.5.

You want to drop stats? I have a Bachelor of Science Degree in Video Game Art and Design. I worked in production with Triple A video game companies, my name is in the credits of some of the next gen titles that everyone plays now, I model in 3D as well as being a 2D artist, I can sculpt in 3D,  I am a master of at adobe products to include photoshop and illustrator, I work in UDK and UT3 blah blah blah..on and on and on... You can verify all this by going to my website that I am currently updating. Did I also mention I also did 12 years in the Marine Corps. Not saying that I know everything or anything like that just stating facts...

Don't come on and try to lecture me about being a Man. That's actually why I didn't come at you directly as not to single you out because A. It wasn't worth my time and B. I wasn't butt hurt about what you wrote in the slightest. That was more directed at some of the new people that just want to jump on this thread and start shit. We have had a influx of new people on the thread and in the dungeon in general trying to start shit on people's threads.

And for the record I am friends with Las, Drac9, and Job. Bet you weren't expecting that. I even post regular on their threads and even outside of this forum. So if you take it personally because you are basically trying to push your opinions on to everyone else as Wolverine would say go Fuck Yourself. Direct enough for you?

If you want to apologize to me then I am cool with that too and we can bury the hatchet. I won't lose any sleep over it but I am Man enough to let bygons be bygones.

The fan-games that I create for me is just is a hobby. It's meant to be just for fun. Don't try to ruin that for everyone else just because you want to force your opinions on everyone else. You've already made yourself to look like a ass you don't need to compound the matter.

[BMC_War Machine]

Yeah, I'm with Darkman and SabinFigaro. *puts on mod hat* Now, I've known Kale for a while (we've both been here for quite some time) and he's not that bad; he can be blunt but he isn't malicious or ill-meaning. Maybe he could have extended his critique, but since he clarified he was just stating his thoughts, I don't think we need to spend any more time on the subject.

Now, back on topic. Judging from the video, things are progressing quite well! The controls and gameplay seem pretty smooth. I have some critiques about the sound, though. I'm not sure if it's just me or my speakers, but there seems to be some conflict between the music and the sound effects, whenever Sypha makes her attacking noises, the music seems to lower in volume for a second, which can be distracting if it happens a lot. Since it's just an early build, though, I suspect this problem will be corrected in the future?

exactly dude! Thanks Sabin, Darkman and Gunlord. Yeah the sypha "im having a heart attack" sound effect is being replaced lol. I honestly didnt realize how much that stood out until I watched the video. T hanks for your support dude, thank ALL of you for your support 

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Just watched the sypha video.  My two cents:

Some of Sypha's animations are definitely great (the crouching staff stab and the ground-based spellcasting).  However, some others need some work:

-I can't figure out whether Sypha's cloak is part of her arms or its own thing.  When she stand-attacks or walks, the cloak appears attached to her sleeves.  That looks really bizarre.  I understand that if it were separated from the sleeves it would require more animation frames, and it's a WIP still, but it looks a bit jarring.
-Again with Sypha's standing attack, there should be fewer frames for her wind-up.  It almost looks like she hits an enemy twice (once on the way up and again on her swing).  I have to admit, though, it's cool to see the staff on her hand always.
-Those stair animations are going to be tough, no matter how you look at it.  Sypha's cloak drags on the floor so if it's gonna look any good on stairs there's going to be some frames that will require her cloak to hide the stairs somehow.  It's possible but it's challenging.  The stair animations are the reason my Sypha sprite is still incomplete (I had pretty much all her other animations).
-She doesn't seem to jump forward enough.  Maybe this one is just personal preference, but it looks like the walks forward faster than jumping foward.
-Perhaps her sound effects for when attacking should be toned down to just occasionally instead of at every swing.  Take a note from Richter's attacks in Symphony of the night; not all of them have him grunting about, just one out of three, while others use the sound of the whip instead.

Keep up the good work!

[BMC_War Machine]

Thanks for the input as always Jorge I agree about the stairs, the cloak dragging would look fantastic, im no sprite artist but I can tinker with things decently so ill try that out.  As for the SFX thats something im having a hard time randomizing, ita nailed for trevor just like you mentioned about richter, that will get ironed out before release, as well as cutting down on the horde that swarms you on the bridge lol a bir of overkill I admit   As for the current progress im just about finished with Alucards prologue stage and kaonstantine almost has grant completely ready so as soon hes ready ill get his stage done also.  I started his coding last night so it wont take very long at all after I get all his sprites 

[the_truth]

List of issues noticed in the video:

*the non matching parallax backgrounds (starting at 1:41)
*the lack of proper transparency and blend mode use on things like the flames sypha makes and explosions
*Sypha's awkward animation when walking down stairs (it just doesn't look right)
*the game having little to no particles and thus not being nearly as aesthetically pleasing as it could be
*the visually plain death animations on some things like the axe armor, that basically involved cutting the sprite into a handful of pieces and rotating them, then dropping them in a pile or the winged guard not going to pieces and just bursting into a single explosion; these could be greatly improved on in countless ways
*the explosions & flames ripped from SOTN don't seem to have properly timed animations and need to be changed; the zombie's animation is messed up. All of these may also be missing frames of animation (the zombie definitely is).
*There are three GLITCHES in the demo video; one involving a skeleton that seems to take more hits than it should and just walks back and forth over and over; one with the mountain background popping up when you jump; and the one that even kills sypha when she appears to get stuck on the stairs behind the waterfall (no clue what happened here)
*The choice of sound effect for the ice hitting the ground seems way out of place and gets annoying quickly; note it is used as a sound for SHATTERING glass originally. There are literally THOUSANDS of other better sounds that could be used.
*Sypha's sprite has a lot of potntial, but overall looks rough and like it is still WIP; not sure how else to say it is I am NOT an artist and do not know the technical terms. Maybe go on DA and get advice from people better than us here.

[BLOOD MONKEY]

Hey WarMachine, could you pm me the Sypha sprite sheet? I think I know exactly how to fix it.

[kaonstantine]

Well, being the guy providing the sprites to BMC, seems like it's my turn to 'speak' (and first of all, sorry for my english)

1. I really find it exciting people discusing (good and bad things) about the sypha sprites.

2. Curiously i've found most of the good critics to sypha come from people who are artists or they are spriters or they are related to making some sort of digital drawing/painting works. In the other hand, MOST (not all of them) of the  "bad" critics are coming from people not involved in the creation of sprites (correct me if i'm wrong). Here I'm also considering critics from people in other forums (spanish). This is odd 

3. I accept all the critics, no problem at all. Thank you guys for your opinions.  I myself consider me a novice spriter, so critics are as important as practice to me. That being said, I still want to participate in this discussion and share my point of view

-I can't figure out whether Sypha's cloak is part of her arms or its own thing.  When she stand-attacks or walks, the cloak appears attached to her sleeves.  That looks really bizarre.

I created the sprite with that idea in my mind. Cloak attatched to his arms, like this.

(click to show/hide)

-Again with Sypha's standing attack, there should be fewer frames for her wind-up.  It almost looks like she hits an enemy twice (once on the way up and again on her swing).  I have to admit, though, it's cool to see the staff on her hand always.
-Those stair animations are going to be tough, no matter how you look at it.  Sypha's cloak drags on the floor so if it's gonna look any good on stairs there's going to be some frames that will require her cloak to hide the stairs somehow.  It's possible but it's challenging.  The stair animations are the reason my Sypha sprite is still incomplete (I had pretty much all her other animations).

I have to agree with all the people pointing out the swing attack doesn't look convincing. I agree in that the motion is too slow, and that needs to be changed. Seems like i used too much frames. One of the reasons it works that way is i didnt want a sypha with notable warrior skills. In that swing, I tried to made her look like a character low-experienced in combat. Jorge is right, the stairs animation is pretty tough to make, very challenging, but I faced one problem here and is related with the swing attack: I don't have access to the game engine:  i can't make tests, i don't know how fast or slow the animations are set, i don't know how much Sypha will move in X and Y when she is in the stairs, i can't make fine-tuning in the cloak and legs, Stairs animation, above all, is made based only on "intuition".

Considering all this. Any spriter knows sprites doesn't come perfect the first time, and considering all those sprites are the first version i sent to BMC, corrections are expected.

*Sypha's awkward animation when walking down stairs (it just doesn't look right)

As BMC already said, i have not provided him the down stairs, he is using the up stairs as a placeholder.

List of issues noticed in the video:
*the game having little to no particles and thus not being nearly as aesthetically pleasing as it could be

By reading this statement I see why particles are nowadays one of the most overused resources, specially in indie/amateur games. My opinion is that most of the particle based effects looks too modern and too sophisticated and doesn't fit in retro-style games. This is question of preferences, I know particles CAN BE used, but i hardly use them in a pixel art- based game

*Sypha's sprite has a lot of potntial, but overall looks rough and like it is still WIP; not sure how else to say it is I am NOT an artist and do not know the technical terms. Maybe go on DA and get advice from people better than us here.

Can you point me to any Sypha sprites (of similar size) in DA that may be used as a guide/reference?