Topic: The source of the Dark Lord's power

[Inccubus]

I was thinking about it today while I was walking and I don't think it makes any sense for 'Chaos' to be the source of Dracula's powers in the old timeline. My reasoning is that Dracula seems like a very lawful-evil type of character. Everything from his motivations to his by-the-book actions throughout the series smacks of an orderly mind.

First off, the very driving force behind his actions, revenge, points to a lawful being. He feels he was wronged and thus someone should pay for that. His origin as a medieval tactician with a complex analytical mind doesn't seem compatible with the force of chaos. He doesn't resurrect on his own in less than 100 years. He always awaits the Belmont of the times in his lair. Always uses the same strategies. None of these are features of a person aligned with chaos.

That said, what do you guys think would make a better source for Dracula's powers?

Personally I like the Francis Ford Copala version where he became a an evil bastard vampire through sheer force of will.

[Lelygax]

If he wants to destroy things, it still in the chaotic side. When he wants to destroy everything it just got worse. xD

[Ahasverus]

Well the new timeline takes his power from the forgotten one, allegedly the most powerful demon of hell.

[crisis]

The PoR timeline bonus says that during the 300+ years between Lament & Curse, the Belmonts were busy hunting down powerful vampire lords. Each slain vampire only added to Dracula's growing power via the Crimson Stone. Also, CVA's manual says that during this period, he conducted evil rituals every night to further his strength. When he lost Lisa was when all bets were off, he fully embraced the Chaos and became one with it, imo.

In SotN, when you battle Dracula for the final time, note that he summons various demons via a portal sphere he manifests, then smashes them and absorbs their blood. That's very chaotic-like powers if you ask me!

So I think it's both; a combination of sheer will (when he was still Matthias) and the time when he's known as Vlad when he really started to become more than just a vampire, but a demon king.

[darkwzrd4]

Well, this is one of the inconsistancies I've seen in the old cannon. Before LoI came out, Dracula was simply Vlad the Impaler who became a vampire and use dark magic to amass an legion of demons to terrorize humans. The strength of the dark magic and demons was reenforced by the darkness in the hearts of humans. My guess is that Chaos, as it was called in AoS, is just the physical manifestation of the evil. This evil seems to be destruction incarnate is by its very nature is chaotic.
With the release of LoI, things likely changed. Instead of using the darkness in the hearts of humans, he uses the crimson stone to increase his power. Remember, the crimson stone turns the souls of vampires into power for its master. Seeing how Mathias/Dracula is the master of the crimson stone and it is likely the Belmonts were hunting vampires for the 300+ years between LoI and CV3, it is likely that Death would collect the souls of the vampires killed by the Belmonts and give them to Mathias.  With that understanding, he never stopped manipulating Leon and Leon's descendants. He simply indirectly used them to amass power for himself.
Keep in mind that this is all theoretical based on my understanding.

As for Gabriel in LoS, he stole the power of the Forgotten One and then killed him with his own power.

[Lelygax]

To say the truth the only character that knows everything and his the key for almost all mysteries about Chaos and Dracula is Death, his descriptions in Bestiary and his ending in Judgement are the proof. We know how Mathias have became a vampire but we know nothing about Castlevania and about Chaos. We really need a game that explains that. I think that they are accumulating all these things to make Death spill the beans in the 1999 game.

[Mathias_The_Resolute]

He explained that Humanity's sins are what resurrect him and make him powerful (But that is questionable since LoI introduce the Crimson Stone) but then again the Crimson Stone absorbs a vampire's soul and power.. giving it to the wielder of the stone who then uses the deceased vampire's power so it COULD be true that Death had killed certain vampire lords and take their souls to Dracula. Chaos does play a role with Dracula, seeing as how Alucard explained that the Castle is a creature of Chaos. What I am trying to say is that Chaos, The Crimson Stone, and Humanity COULD play a role in Dracula's power

[Rudolph LagnaGaisaer]

To say the truth the only character that knows everything and his the key for almost all mysteries about Chaos and Dracula is Death, his descriptions in Bestiary and his ending in Judgement are the proof. We know how Mathias have became a vampire but we know nothing about Castlevania and about Chaos. We really need a game that explains that. I think that they are accumulating all these things to make Death spill the beans in the 1999 game.

yeah and in my opinion only characters that have some Connection with Dracula can talk to Death.it may explain why only in certain Castlevanias Death Can Talk.For Example In SoTN,HoD,And PoR .Alucard,Johnny and Just could talk with him bcause one is his Son,other is his Enemy and the other is a direct descendant of the Family. when in AoS,DoS,OoE, PoF etc they cannot. and seems that Death is Only a Killing Machine without intelligence. if they do it

[Flame]

Well he started lawful evil. he became chaotic though when it came to be that he pretty much became a force of chaos that could not be killed, and came about when mankind's faith was weak. I mean, he seemed like he was ready to give up the ghost in SoTN. he heard Lisa's last words, he was like, 'forgive me" and shit. he seemed done. but yet he constantly reappeared, as vengeful as ever. More than a defeat, the battle of 99 was a release from his cycle.

[Lelygax]

Even if no one agrees with me, I think that the SOTN ending proves that Dracula continues rising after that and doing bad things against his own will, all because of Chaos influence, I ever thought that after they made sequels to SOTN and I still think the same, with AOS plot reinforcing that.

[Shiroi Koumori]

when in AoS,DoS,OoE, PoF etc they cannot. and seems that Death is Only a Killing Machine without intelligence. if they do it

Well, it is true that Death does not talk to Soma in the Sorrow games, but in the novel that is set after DoS, Death was able to talk to Soma.

Even if no one agrees with me, I think that the SOTN ending proves that Dracula continues rising after that and doing bad things against his own will, all because of Chaos influence, I ever thought that after they made sequels to SOTN and I still think the same, with AOS plot reinforcing that.

I think I agree with you. Maybe the real Drac faded with Lisa's last words and was replaced by the Chaotic Drac who continues to rise in every game that takes place after SOTN.

[X]

Personally I like the Francis Ford Copala version where he became a an evil bastard vampire through sheer force of will.

This. Dracula's real powers came from himself; his own will. Deifying Death and becoming the evil demonic king of Vampires. IMO that makes him far more powerful then acquiring any outside influence.

My guess is that Chaos, as it was called in AoS, is just the physical manifestation of the evil. This evil seems to be destruction incarnate is by its very nature is chaotic.

I have to respectfully disagree with this as Chaos is what it is: Chaos. It's not evil by any stretch of the imagination. It is simply the opposite of Order. In this world we have both Chaos and order co-existing and you can see it everywhere you look. No one rock is ever the same. No one tree is ever identically reproduced. any and all patterns of nature, even if they are the same, are different in some way or another. Even if something looks the same, microscopically it will be different. That is what Chaos is. It is something that is never the same while Order is the opposite. This universe we live in uses both. We can easily imagine what Order is because of it's inherent nature based on logic. But we can't imagine what Chaos is because it is the opposite and our minds are geared to logic rather then straight-up Chaos. But we can act chaotic when we let our emotions run amok. I personally feel that IGA didn't think things through clearly enough when he created this story arch of Chaos being the source of all Dracula's evil. it's just one of the many ways you can tell he's not a very good story-teller.

[Ratty]

Dracula may be lawful evil himself, but his castle and to a lesser extent the cultists who always seek to revive him are chaotic evil. (Perhaps sometimes chaotic neutral in the Castle's case.) They match on the good/evil/neutral alignment axis rather than the chaotic/lawful one. Dracula got immense power through his own black deeds but he's not omnipotent. This is demonstrated by his continual defeat by the Belmonts. And if nothing else AoS and DoS showed that the pull of his dark soul can be resisted. Though I'm never sure in DoS if the other candidates thought they were going to be a new incarnation of Dracula (essentially just becoming a vessel for his essence) or just become the new lord of darkness as themselves.

[Lelygax]

Without Dracula soul its impossible to become a new incarnation of Dracula, they only will be instead a new dark lord.

[X]

Without Dracula soul its impossible to become a new incarnation of Dracula, they only will be instead a new dark lord.

Exactly. Dracula and Soma are one and the same person. One soul. But because of certain aspects of the AoS and DoS story it becomes a little disjointed to grasp. You cannot separate Dracula's soul from Soma's because he is Soma. Dracula was his former physical identitiy. But Soma Cruz is now his current physical identity.

Dracula may be lawful evil himself, but his castle and to a lesser extent the cultists who always seek to revive him are chaotic evil. (Perhaps sometimes chaotic neutral in the Castle's case.)

The castle is just a creature of Chaos. Why? Because it continues to change it's form whenever Dracula is resurrected and Chaos itself isn't evil. Dracula controls Castlevania which in turn makes it a force to be reckoned with. Don't get me wrong, the castle is still a dangerous place with bottomless pits, spiked floors, etc. But that's how it was designed; by Dracula's will. Without Dracula alive Castlevania is nothing more then a stagnate husk of stone and debris though others have brought about it's existence which in turn it awaits for Dracula's revival. There is no such thing as 'chaotic evil' as that's a term that we invented. Chaos is just Chaos by nature.