Topic: "Metroidmania....."

[Shiroi Koumori]

Partial healing or minimal or no save points can be used for hard mode.

However, i think that feature might alienate newbies.

[Lelygax]

Thats the problem, games are becoming easier and easier because they care too much about "newbies". They should find a way to balance it properly.

[TheouAegis]

Why the fuck are you guys even hung up at all on healing? The healing feature of save points is what broke Metroidvanias. Just grind away, grind grind grind until you're a high enough level or your souls are powered up enough or you have enough potions or you get that epic armor you were killing the same damned enemy hundreds of times for. A one-time save is just fine. "You beat the boss! Congrats! Now heal up, record your progress and continue on!" You don't need to save the game every 5 fucking minutes. You wouldn't even need passwords because it would be the exact same as with passwords. And even with backtracking, you shouldn't need to save. You've beaten that area once already, so why would you need to save the game before going through it again? You already know where everything is, so if you have any ounce of skill at all you should be able to traverse that area backwards with little difficulty especially now that you received an upgrade from the boss. And yes, I have played Metroidvanias. I have four (well, 3.5, because I don't really think of LOI as a full Metroidvania). They're my least favorite games of the series (well, not counting the N64 ones but that probably had to do with trying to play on an emulator with a keyboard instead of a gamepad).

Seriously, people need to learn how to fucking play a platformer again. Dawn of Sorrow/Aria of Sorrow were not platformers. Order Of Ecclesia wasn't a platformer. Those were all cakewalks. You jump from one slice of cake to another slice of cake, and if you mess up you plop down into a glob of frosting. Metroidvanias are just side-scrolling RPGs with formulaic construct and gameplay riddled with design flaws. Playing through them is a chore; there's no sense of accomplishment, you just want to go play something else when you finally beat Dracula so you can feel like you actually played a game before the day's over.

Castlevania needs to make your palms sweat. It needs to make rooms full of spikes and swinging blades make you think, "How the fuck am I supposed to get through that?!" I'm not saying Konami needs to ramp up the difficulty to Ghouls'n'Ghosts level, but who really cares about alienating newbies? Why the fuck do newbies even matter? How the hell would a newbie even know the game is too hard? So what if it's hard? Did the newbie buy it? Then you got your money! If it's beatable, IGN will give your game an honest review and people -- newbies and skilled gamers alike -- will buy your game. And since professional game reviewers seem to never even discuss game difficulty anymore, I doubt a hard game would really be an aversion.

Then there's the issue of easy/babysitter/cakewalk games being a horrible business strategy. I beat Lego Lord of the Rings and sold it back to GameStop. I beat Order Of Ecclesia but still have it. What's the difference (other than one cost me $15 and the other cost me $40)? LEGO just dragged me around on a leash, whereas OOE at least gave me some steady challenge throughout and thus has some replayability. As a game developer, you want people to be ABLE to beat your game, but you don't want them to beat it easily. If people can beat your game easily because you pad it with safety harnesses throughout, your game will be stuck in a warehouse because the same 3000 copies of it will be resold over and over at GameStop.

[crisis]

It needs to make rooms full of spikes and swinging blades make you think, "How the fuck am I supposed to get through that?!"

I think the next developers should take notes from Belmont's Revenge for stuff like this. There were many moments in that game where I was thinking the same thing lol. I wonder why they never made ReBirth 2? 

And someone really needs to figure out how to emulate WiiWare games, I'm dying to replay Adventure ReBirth but don't feel like hooking up my Wii to do so.

[Belmontoya]

I completely agree with you DarkYoshiMonster.

Although I was a Metriod fan before SOTN and before Castlevania took a turn in that direction, I did not like to see my beloved Castlevania series turn into that kind of game. If I wanted to follow a blue map around and get lost in a catacomb, that's what Metriod was for. If I wanted hardcore platforming that relied on quick reflexes and level memorization, that's what CV was for! I liked the simplicity of having one goal and not worrying about managing a plethora of items just to advance in the game.

You will find that the original Castlevania fans like you, me and Neobelmont are a scarce breed around here. I was so fed up with the way the series had become that I decided to start developing a reboot of the Castlevania series that would return it to it's original play style, and incorporate all new graphics and style at the same time. I've been working on this game for years and trying to recruit people to get on board on this forum. It's proven difficult! They all want Metriodvania with recycled Dracula X and SOTN artwork.

Here's a little peek at the protagonist, Enthu.

[Belmontoya]

And be careful about talking negatively about those Metriodvania games around here! You'll end up with negative respect points like I have. LOL

[crisis]

You will find that the original Castlevania fans like you, me and Neobelmont are a scarce breed around here.

lol what?


I've been playing Castlevania since Castlevania started, and I likelove both "classicvanias" and "metroidvanias" equally. Does that make me a rare breed?

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

lol what?


I've been playing Castlevania since Castlevania started, and I likelove both "classicvanias" and "metroidvanias" equally. Does that make me a rare breed?

Yea, there are a lot of people (including myself) around here who grew up liking the classics and the metroidvanias.

I'm a big fan of both and my top 2 CV games of all time happen to have one from the classicvanias (SCIV) and one from the metroidvanias (CVSOTN).


If anything you will find more who dislike metroidvanias around here, especially after the release of LOS which created another group of fans who appear to hate all things IGA.

Granted that not all of them are like that.

[Belmontoya]

It seems that way around here Crisis!

If you love both classicvania's and metriodvania's than I think you will agree that we've had enough metriodvania's and it's time to get a new classicvania style game out there.

They did it for the Contra series (Hardcore: Uprising). Why can't CV get a game like that?

The people on this forum generally favor the Metriodvania games. Are you disagreeing with that?

[crisis]

I can't speak for anyone else, but if they were to announce a new metroidvania game tomorrow then I'd love it just the same if they were gonna announce a new classicvania. I liked MoF and am looking forward to LoS2. I'm still critical of "igavania" and "coxlevania" but I still enjoy the games regardless, I know that sounds hard to believe for some people for whatever reason.

Some people react like "another metroidvania? not again!" but that's not me.

[Belmontoya]

It just doesn't make sense because the last classicvania game to come out was Dracula X way back in 1995. We've had nothing but metriodvania's since then if you don't include re-releases such as chronicles and rebirth. If you like them equally wouldn't you want to see a new classicvania first, since it's been well over a decade since we've had one?

I love the LOS games. I stopped playing Mirror of Fate pretty quickly though, it just felt way too much like the same old metriodvania stuff again. Being stuck in a stuffy castle trying to follow a map around. I had much higher hopes for that game. But I'm pretty confident that LOS2 will deliver something great.

I've said it dozens of times on here now, but I really think Castlevania shined at it's best with CV4. I can't understand how another game like that has not even been attempted.

[PFG9000]

You will find that the original Castlevania fans like you, me and Neobelmont are a scarce breed around here.

Easy there.  I think most of the fans here like most of the CV installments.  We might have preferences between this style or that, but that doesn't mean we'd be upset with a new entry in a different style.  I grew up with the classicvanias and I'll always love them.  But I love the Metroidvanias too.  I even like Lords of Shadow quite a bit, although I don't think it's a good Castlevania.

The point is that you don't have to automatically hate everything else just to like the classicvanias.

[Neobelmont]

I completely agree with you DarkYoshiMonster.



You will find that the original Castlevania fans like you, me and Neobelmont are a scarce breed around here.

The people on this forum generally favor the Metriodvania games. Are you disagreeing with that?

I honestly think that when it comes to cv this place has kept me sane. This is the only place where I have seen conversations about the classic games, mv, and 3d games to a somewhat equal extent. Everywhere else seems to be a MV only club. Now I think when it comes to the n64 games that's abit different. I have talked to a bunch of people about them and  one of the first things to come up is the n64 games yeah.... NO! LoD is awesome.. Lod imo is one of the best cv games 

Some people react like "another metroidvania? not again!" but that's not me.

That's me to an extent  The Mv games have really burned me out that's not to say I do not enjoy them I enjoyed mof for the most part... But a ground up classicvania for the new generation would be something 

[darkmanx_429]

Well, I am old school at the core and prefer the classicvania's. Go to from point A to point B, kill the mini bosses, boss, rinse and repeat without all the needing jump boots in section A, backtrack, no I can get to section B..don't get me wrong SOTN was a beast, but it's just my personal taste. What I do want is the action of the more classicvania's with the openess of the metrovania maps. I thought that Harmony of Despair would quench that thirst, but ended up being extremely watered down and more kin to SOTN than anything else. On the record, I am designing most the levels for my game to be huge like SOTN, but with the action of the classicvania's. You are given the option of taken multiple paths but not like in SOTN when you can't progress any further if you don't have the right skill sets or abilities...

[Belmontoya]

PFG, I never said I hate everything else. I thoroughly enjoy some of the metriodvania games. I own and have played every Castlevania ever made. I even own Konami world on the famicom because you could play as Simon Belmont in it. LOL

I'm looking at Castlevania from a very broad view point. I think it's a shame that the series became more known for something that Metriod was already doing rather than playing to it's own strengths which were hardcore gaming platforming. It was a well paced action game that required the player to have serious discipline in timing and coordination, and memory. Honestly, the Metriod games offer more moments like that than Metriodvania games do. I've watched the series over the years as it has become watered down and tailored more to the RPG crowd.   

Darkman, it sounds more to me that you are describing a game similar to Simon's Quest. Which is the type of open world format Castlevania should have stuck to because it was more proprietary and not simply lifted from another game, as SOTN did with Super Metriod. Sounds super cool to me!