Topic: Save your criticism

[Pfil]

Developers have visions too. It's not JUST about what the audience wants, sometimes the developer wants to make their own vision on something. And despite LoS being divisive, it WAS successful, meaning that there WAS an audience for that vision.

My opinion is that a franchise shouldn't change a lot. If they want to make games with their visions, let them do a new IP or alternative games, not their games be the only games for 6 agonizing never ending years.
This was about movies' soundtracks in recent years, though.
But if when a new studio takes Castlevania the games have the same approach, and especially the same music, I guess I will stop buying, stop playing and stop caring, and like me, there are a lot of life long fans that have been alienated.
For example, I'm not buying LoS 2. I will download it from Piratebay when it comes out for PC and give it a chance, though I already know the music will be the same as in LoS 1 and MoF.
And if nothing change in the next game, I won't even download it illegally. I will just watch a few videos on YouTube and check the look and music, and that's it.
Eventually, newer fans will replace almost all CV fans, and the franchise will be a completely different thing, all for the sake of being profitable and saving the name, which, without its soul, it's just a name, just letters, nothing else.
At least Konami should have the decent of making a low budget, downloadable game of a new IP about vampires, with the spirit of Castlevania (like, music, for example), so older fans don't feel betrayed, cheated and abandoned.

I hope that the developers that lurk here see all our opinions. 

You are right Lely, as consumers, we vote with our money.

I always hope that Araujo would read everything I post.
On the other hand, I'd like the artist who designed Trevor to read how I like him, too.

Im not she, but I think that she meant that we are not obligated to accept everything that they send at us with a smile. They need to hear our feedbacks more often and adapt if necessary or otherwise people will stop being blind fans (not everyone, Im talking about these really fanatic that buy even the worst and plan to continue buying until they bankrupt, even if these games are bad) and boycott their games until they get better.

Yes, I meant that. Of course I won't be accepting anything with a smile. When the Castlevania name is there, I will be accepting just 2 things with a smile: a ClassicVania with traditional CV music or a MetroidVania with traditional CV music. Everything else is just that: something else.

[Flame]

My opinion is that a franchise shouldn't change a lot.

Sometimes evolution is necessary to realize full potential...

[Lelygax]

Hahaha thats a good joke, good one.

[Flame]

Because all my talk about how franchises should grow and evolve over time made me realize, all this talk about change and evolution... 

SOUNDS LIKE MAVERICK TALK TO ME.

[Lelygax]

So we need to destroy anyone that doesnt think like us!

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

j/k

[Pfil]

Sometimes I'd like to have Dr. Manhattan powers.

[uzo]

Being 100ft, glowing blue, and naked?

[Dark Nemesis]

Being 100ft, glowing blue, and naked?

Behold the power of my huge

(click to show/hide)

[DoctaMario]

I'm not very fond of his music, but I doubt he could be compared to the nonsense to we are subjected with almost every super production coming out from Hollywood.
And I doubt anyone with training based on the classical and baroque periods would like his music in a movie or game.
Just like Schoenberg started a movement, so did Edward Schoener. Listen to his works and tell me if you like it.
Anyway, I wouldn't dare to compare Schoenberg either to, say, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach or Chopin.
Just like I wouldn't compare pop art to, say, a painting from Michael Angelo or Da Vinci.
And pop art is a major art movement too.
Just saying.

About Rugal's respect, he's been saying some cool things, and I have the right to give him my respects, if anyone's wondering. I feel he's had some unfair negative votes and I felt like doing it. Please note that every post I up-voted is saying something I already stated elsewhere, or kind of. Mostly about LoS, and mostly about its music, so...
I don't think 15 positive votes is a big deal, to be honest.

If Schoenberg's music fit in a particular game, I'd like it to be there. Maybe a whole OST of it would be too much (not gonna lie, a little serialism goes a long way imo) but if it fits it fits. But Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, and Bach were the pop music of their day, so the only reason I'd say it's not right to compare them is because they serve different forms and functions. And I honestly find most of Mozart's stuff too fluffy for my tastes....but if it fit in a particular game/movie, then that's where it should be.

BTW I was kidding about Rugal's respect meter.    Rugal and I are actually friendly on other forums as well as than this one.

All this talk of needing a 'trained ear' or a degree and years of experience to offer an authoritative or more knowledgeable opinion on music being good or bad kind of saddens me.

I agree.

[Pfil]

I'm not very fond of Mozart, personally either. He is too major mode for my tastes. But there's no denying his talent as a writer of masterpieces. There's plenty of examples, but the Requiem alone is enough.
I'd be overwhelmed by a complete game featuring Schoenberg's compositions, but I loved, for example, Eternal Sonata featuring many Chopin themes as part of the soundtrack (I wished it used more, by the way).

I don't understand why objective talk about music theory would sadden anyone. How would anyone learn about something if not by studying it? Study is what divides the line between amateurs and the rest, with all respect.
And I don't even consider myself an expert in the matter, but I don't know a way of talking about music that don't includes theory and analysis.

That said, however, all someone needs to know if this or that music is right for Castlevania, is just to know about Castlevania music and understand the essence.

And I'm glad to hear that about Rugal, I like his posts, and I don't have nothing against you, either, I hope this little exchange of opinions isn't interpreted as hostility 

[Maedhros]

Bach is all that matters for me.

[Rugal]

While I appreciate the thought of giving me "respect", I really don't care about that system on this forum at all. I've been posting here way too long to care about something so miniscule. It's nice to see that some people agree with some of what I say, though.

As for Lords of Shadow music.. I really can't say anything else, so I'll just leave this here:

Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge Music (Game Boy) - Soleiyu's Room

and this:

Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge Music (Game Boy) - Chromatische Phantasie (Soleiyu Battle)

I don't want to hear how Lords of Shadow's music is anything spectacular anymore, because these two tracks alone far surpass anything that game (or Mirror of Fate) has to offer.

End of story. And yes, I know it's Bach piece.

[DragonSlayr81]

Sometimes evolution is necessary to realize full potential...

I'd love to quote Noah Antwiler regarding innovation:

"There's a difference between innovation and putting bacon in a milkshake."

That being said, I'm sure some people would actually LIKE the taste of bacon milkshakes. That's the strange thing with taste. I can bet that every single style and taste, there is at least ONE person out there that finds it appealing and amazing.

I do agree with Pfil on one thing, if ideas are so drastic(if we are talking about ideas that ARE indeed drastic), more companies should have the balls to take a chance on an new IP. That's how it was in the old days and I actually think that's the best. You get a lot of new experiemental IPs that sink or float depending on whether or not the ideas ARE actually good. Now, well, companies are too chicken shit to take the chance. We live in a dire era where everybody's afraid of everything, ESPECIALLY failure. So, if you have a new idea, just incorporate it into an existing IP, because even if the idea's shit, the fact that it's attached to a popular and well-known franchise will mean it will at least sell SOME(unlike a new IP).

Yeah, I understand all that, but I still think it's a fuckin pussy ass way of doing things. It's the equivalent of producing bubble children, protecting them from the world outside because they are surrounded in a giant bubble. Sometimes, in life, you just have to fuckin TAKE A CHANCE. Sink or swim, y'know? You can only sway in the wading pool so long!

[DoctaMario]

I'm not very fond of Mozart, personally either. He is too major mode for my tastes. But there's no denying his talent as a writer of masterpieces. There's plenty of examples, but the Requiem alone is enough.
I'd be overwhelmed by a complete game featuring Schoenberg's compositions, but I loved, for example, Eternal Sonata featuring many Chopin themes as part of the soundtrack (I wished it used more, by the way).

I don't understand why objective talk about music theory would sadden anyone. How would anyone learn about something if not by studying it? Study is what divides the line between amateurs and the rest, with all respect.
And I don't even consider myself an expert in the matter, but I don't know a way of talking about music that don't includes theory and analysis.

That said, however, all someone needs to know if this or that music is right for Castlevania, is just to know about Castlevania music and understand the essence.

And I'm glad to hear that about Rugal, I like his posts, and I don't have nothing against you, either, I hope this little exchange of opinions isn't interpreted as hostility 

I think Mozart was a victim of his own popularity. He eventually got stuck writing for a lot of nobles with limited tastes BECAUSE he was so popular and as a result, had to write a lot of things that I'm sure he wouldn't have if he were like, say, Bach, who wasn't particularly well regarded until after his death.

The theory thing I guess comes from the fact that we're talking about something that's extremely subjective (LoS' OST being fitting or not) that can't really be quantified through theory. You can say you like it or don't like it because it contains certain elements, but those elements are just really form and function. The feelings those pieces give us are what make them fitting or not fitting to us, not necessarily the pieces used to build them.

And no, I don't take this as hostility. You and I are both passionate about music and have different opinions. 

I'd love to quote Noah Antwiler regarding innovation:

"There's a difference between innovation and putting bacon in a milkshake."

That being said, I'm sure some people would actually LIKE the taste of bacon milkshakes. That's the strange thing with taste. I can bet that every single style and taste, there is at least ONE person out there that finds it appealing and amazing.

Actually the Ben & Jerry's here has ice cream with bacon in it. 

[Pfil]

@DoctaMario: I'm glad to know 
I like to discuss politely and I don't mind about different opinions if we talk with respect.
It's clear our views on LoS' soundtrack are very different, but there must be plenty of other Castlevania pieces we both like, though.

It's true, "free" composers used to have much more variety in ancient times.
That's one of the reasons why composers such as Beethoven used to dismiss some of his own works, usually study pieces, as "bagatellas" (I don't know the word in english, but it means something with little to no value; in musical terms "bagatella" means a short piece for piano, but it was also used as a despective term in ancient times, and according to the Royal Spanish Academy it means "something that's worth little or nothing").
And that's one of the reasons I like Bach more than many others contemporary artists, though there's some generally under appreciated baroque pieces in my opinion, like some of Corelli, Scarlatti or Telemann works.

@Rugal: That game' soundtrack is memorable, thanks for sharing.