Topic: Is Koji Igarashi the greatest Castlevania producer?

[Abnormal Freak]

I meant "programmed all of it," out of intense sarcasm and jabbing. :p

Anyway, from that interview he basically says, "I wanted to work on Castlevania, I got to program for one (the 32X game), it got canceled, I was asked to do another project and vied for Symphony of the Night, which I became director on after the original director got promoted to another project."

It still doesn't really shed any light as to Hagihara's contributions.

I'm not saying Hagihara did it all, IGA sux, blah blah blah, but we don't fuckin' knoooooow what Hagihara did—and it's very possible that he did a lot (to the completion of the game we know it as) before it fell under the reins of Igarashi.

[beingthehero]

I meant "programmed all of it," out of intense sarcasm and jabbing. :p

it's very possible that he did a lot (to the completion of the game we know it as) before it fell under the reins of Igarashi.

But again, the Metroidvania gameplay, experience points and rpg leveling, the game's title, and the hero himself were IGA's own ideas. As I linked, Yamane said IGA oversaw her score and overruled the rest of the team when they were hesitant about the soundtrack. As IGA said in that EGM interview, Hagihara left early in development, and that's when IGA took over as director and implemented all the changes. There was no way there could've been any sort of completion of the game because he radically overhauled the entire game from top to bottom.

Given what we know from the interviews I've linked, when IGA joined:

- there was no hero in the game, so IGA used Alucard

- no title, so he used X to show that it was originally a gaiden

- wanted to increase play time, so he used Metroid's format

- wanted to help casual gamers get into the game, so he came up with experience points

If the game was at a stage when there was no cohesive structure or even a hero, there was no way Hagihara could've been involved for longer than the early, post-Bloodletting stages.

[Abnormal Freak]

Game development usually doesn't work in such a linear timeline. IGA says he joined the team as programmer early in development, but it doesn't say that Hagihara left early, just that at some point in time, he did, and IGA took over. It's possible the leveling up, non-linear, hero, etc. were established while Hagihara was project leader, hence IGA's assistant director credit. You're going under the assumption that when Hagihara left, IGA completely overhauled the thing, which I'm doubting is true.

Could be, but we don't know.

[beingthehero]

It's possible the leveling up, non-linear, hero, etc. were established while Hagihara was project leader, hence IGA's assistant director credit.

So you agree that SotN's entire concept, gameplay, hero, title, etc., were IGA's creation?

[Abnormal Freak]

I agree, yes, because that's been established—but coming up with ideas doesn't necessarily mean he did everything.

The later games lack the polish and honed-in vision that Symphony of the Night has. It's possible that Hagihara was largely responsible for this.

Let's compare it with Macross Plus. Shoji Kawamori wrote and directed, it's his baby, but Shinichiro Watanabe was assistant director, and his style of animation and action is unmistakable in that anime, establishing how it looks and plays out. THEREFORE WATANABE CREATED IT, KAWAMORI DID NOTHING.

[Abnormal Freak]

Then again, Hagihara could have left early and that's when IGA overhauled everything, and that polish and cohesiveness could be due to budget and time and nothing else. It's possible.


We just don't know.

[Lelygax]

Then again, Hagihara could have left early and that's when IGA overhauled everything, and that polish and cohesiveness could be due to budget and time and nothing else. It's possible.

Not trying to discredit Hagihara, but I like to think its the case.

[beingthehero]

But let's talk about what we do know. Given the numerous interviews that have been linked, it's well-established that IGA created the basic game design, implemented the Metroid formula, RPG elements, the hero, brought in Kojima, and oversaw Yamane (and she is the one who brings that up, not I)- everything that makes SotN, well, SotN. The guy created the game's identity. While it was certainly not a one-man show, to say that SotN isn't IGA's but Hagihara's is disingenuous and extremely inaccurate, as well as to say that IGA was copying the man since those ideas were IGA's to begin with and that is why Ahasverus was incorrect to assert as much.

And Abnormal Freak is a big ol' poopy face. >:c

[Abnormal Freak]

If that is the case, it's curious why Hagihara would be credited as producer if he didn't have an extensive amount to do with the game. It would make more sense I think to give him a "Very Special Thanks and Guidance" credit or something bullshitty like that.


Anyway, bth, I'm not arguing Ahashavereus' points, if that's how you've been approaching this. You're talking to me.

IGA did much, and may in fact have overseen the whole thing. My point is we don't exactly know what Hagihara did or didn't do, and he could have produced/directed the game right alongside IGA for a good amount of time before he headed out and left the reins to IGA. It sounds a bit silly because why would he leave so late in the game (unless he had that much confidence in IGA), but on the other hand he's credited as producer (and by assumption, director, since IGA only has an assistant director credit). I know the Japanese have a pretty strong loyalty system, but it still seems odd to give Hagihara such high credit simply out of respect for what little you're presuming him to have done for the final game, and only what was done before (which amounted to practically nothing, it sounds like you're saying).

[beingthehero]

Man I've only been arguing against Ahasverus's point. I'm not hung up on the mystery of Hagihara - we know from what IGA said that he did two details in the Outer Wall and that he passed IGA the baton during development. We know that SotN's design and concept is IGA's. I'm pointing out that saying SotN isn't IGA's and that he's copying Hagihara's ideas when they're IGA's own ideas is incorrect.

[Lelygax]

I'm not hung up on the mystery of Hagihara - we know from what IGA said that he did two details in the Outer Wall and that he passed IGA the baton during development.

Im laughing here right now, because here in Brazil "batom" means "lipstick". The way you put it seems like Hagihara were retouching IGA makeup hahahaha

Its okay, maybe only me can understand this right now, but its funny xD

[Abnormal Freak]

Man I've only been arguing against Ahasverus's point.

ಠ_ಠ

I'll stick that baton up your bum.

[shelverton.]

ಠ_ಠ

I'll stick that baton up your bum.

I'm interested in this.

[KaZudra]

Producer is a strong word, we're talking about the one responsible for bringing everything together, and for that, Cox wins by years...
BUT, as the director, one who crafts the game and story in a digestible format, IGA beats Cox for Centuries...

this is of course leaving development teams out of it.

[Puwexil]

My take on the Hagihara/Igarashi kerfuffle: Igarashi can be safely credited for the outlined basic tenets of Symphony's being, in coming up with the overarching systems of play, writing the story scenario, and overseeing other aspects of the game while issuing light guidance, as with music and character design. That's entirely consistent with everything he later went on to do with the series.

However, the game wasn't made by him and his few handpicked audiovisual artists alone. If Hagihara's legacy has a standing within Symphony, it's embodied by the team of veteran developers who'd prior to this game worked on past entries in the series under his guidance, and who now had the opportunity to combine their experience and know-how with Igarashi's enthusiastic reformations to the series formula. I think that's at the heart of what made Symphony so good, and why none of the follow-ups ever really matched it, at least as a complete work. It was the ideal combination of talented people, both as a last hurrah and as a visionary debut piece. By the time anyone could entertain creating a successor, years had passed and a lot of the people responsible were probably gone or had moved up the company ladder. You certainly won't see Hagihara involved with a game project on a developer basis these days.

In the end, both of them should get their due for the game's existence and quality. It's just that people seem hesitant to consider Symphony as part of Igarashi's oeuvre, which leads to a lot of attempted discrediting and appropriating of the game as a total work of Hagihara's, which can be irritating.