Topic: What if they made CV1, 2, and 3 a seperate continuity?

[Beaumont_Belmont]

I just want to throw this out there- I think it's possible that Dracula was destroyed FOREVER...until someone resurrected him. In Rondo, Circle of the Moon, 64/LoD and Bloodlines you have people that are actively working to bring Dracula back to life- he's not reviving because of the every 100 years/whenever evil grows stronger deal.

[Nagumo]

Now for the canon timeline. How do we fill in the holes?
You'd mentioned that remakes of the missing games could be introduced. Now that's an idea I like. Not only would it free up space for future games, but it would be an extraordinary opportunity to revive some of CV's most loved classics...
So for now, go ahead and tell us: Which games do you suggest remaking? How do you suggest remaking them? Do you wish for them to stay close to the spirit of the originals, or would you be open to some more experimenting? Should they be added to? Cleaned up? Kept precisely the same? Are you leaning more towards a reboot or a faithful remake? What should they look like? Sound like? And who should lead the team?

The games I suggest should be remade are CVIII, CVII, and Belmont's Revenge. Adventure Rebirth would take Adventure's place, and I personally prefer CV1 being replaced by the Arrange mode of Chronicles. I think that would fit nicely since Kojima redesigned Simon and Dracula in her usual style, which I think fits in very well with IGA's take on the series. However, they could remake CV1 yet again, but I personally think that's unneccessary since I think Chronicles is a suitable enough replacement.

I think these games should be close to the spirit of IGA's games. For example, a CVIII remake should aesthetically be done in the same vain as Symphony, Aria, etc. Kojima doesn't necessarily have to be in charge of the designs, but I would expect the characters to look gothic and elegant.

In case of CVII and III, the storylines should definitely be expanded and rewritten to form a nice flowing narrative with IGA's other games. For example, CVIII's story could be rewritten to actually tie in with SotN, LoI, and CoD. Having Lisa make an actual appearance would be very interesting. They could perhaps make Hector and Isaac make a cameo at the very least. Heck, Alucard's friend, Lyudmil (from the radio drama), could have a role in the story. Personally, I would also try to play as much as possible with the player's expectations of the story. For example, Trevor rescues Sypha from the Cyclops in the original, but the same scenario wouldn't neccesarily need to happen in the remake. I'm trying to think of something really unexpected. The only think I could come up with would be to give Trevor an extra ally. However, I don't think that fits with later canon...

In case of Belmont's Revenge, I think it would be nice if they made it a Rebirth style remake. Then it would fit very well with Adventure Rebirth. 

Since these remakes would tie in with IGA's storyline, I think he should be the one to head the projects.         

[Pfil]

I just want to throw this out there- I think it's possible that Dracula was destroyed FOREVER...until someone resurrected him. In Rondo, Circle of the Moon, 64/LoD and Bloodlines you have people that are actively working to bring Dracula back to life- he's not reviving because of the every 100 years/whenever evil grows stronger deal.

In fact, I think the famous 100 years rule never actually happened in a game, it's just kind of a myth... isn't it?

[Lelygax]

This actually happened in Super Castlevania IV intro.

[Intersection]

Nagumo:

Do you really think Chronicles should replace CVI? You're taking one of the series' most legendary games and replacing it with a middling PSX remake. Taking its place should be a game of at least equal caliber...

(click to show/hide)

Hint: SCIV

But I'd still prefer for an entirely new game to be made. You mentioned that CII and III should be remade in IGA's style -- it wouldn't feel consistent if CI wasn't as well.

Rebirth is a decent replacement, of course, but a remake wouldn't be a bad idea. You'd hope for a remake of Christopher's entries to be slightly more fleshed out. And it wouldn't be viable to do BR in the style of Rebirth; if you expect the game to gather any kind of success in today's market, you'll need for it to be far more substantial than a simple HD port, no matter how good it is.

I'd actually be very interested in seeing classic CV's remade in IGA's style. He's made his mark in the series like no one else has. Yet I'm not sure if all fans would be comfortable watching his distinctive style invading yet another set of CV classics...
But if it was up to me, I'd be all for it. IGA for the win!
As for Kojima, God knows how I would love for her to return. In fact, I don't think I could stand to see another game without here involved in it... Although, in all fairness, I'd be perfectly content with some equally excellent artwork in the same vein.

Now, you haven't mentioned music yet. Does that mean I must compose it? I'm ready to, you know; and I'm not too bad at that kind of thing, either. Several years of harmonic studies can't hurt in that regard...
Back to reality: are you considering a literal OST remake, an entirely different soundtrack, a mixture of both?
And just for the sake of asking, if you had the choice, who'd you take as the next composer? It's actually quite an open field, since Yamane isn't the only great CV musician out there...

[Beaumont_Belmont]

I'd actually be very interested in seeing classic CV's remade in IGA's style. He's made his mark in the series like no one else has. Yet I'm not sure if all fans would be comfortable watching his distinctive style invading yet another set of CV classics...
But if it was up to me, I'd be all for it. IGA for the win!
As for Kojima, God knows how I would love for her to return. In fact, I don't think I could stand to see another game without here involved in it... Although, in all fairness, I'd be perfectly content with some equally excellent artwork in the same vein.

Oh f*#@^% no.
The series absolutely stagnated under IGA. Lords of Shadow was a mess, but at least it wasn't another hollow, lazy Metroidvania.

[Lelygax]

Now its not hollow, but full, complete, a complete trainwreck Gowvania ^^

[Pfil]

'd actually be very interested in seeing classic CV's remade in IGA's style. He's made his mark in the series like no one else has. Yet I'm not sure if all fans would be comfortable watching his distinctive style invading yet another set of CV classics...
But if it was up to me, I'd be all for it. IGA for the win!
As for Kojima, God knows how I would love for her to return. In fact, I don't think I could stand to see another game without here involved in it... Although, in all fairness, I'd be perfectly content with some equally excellent artwork in the same vein.

Me too

[Intersection]

Oh f*#@^% no.
The series absolutely stagnated under IGA. Lords of Shadow was a mess, but at least it wasn't another hollow, lazy Metroidvania.

The series was arguably at its best under IGA. There aren't that many ways to do a game right, and IGA was always spot-on. His games had quite a lot of substance, if you looked for it in the right place.
His games never really stagnated; IGA was moving forward, even if it wasn't as fast as many of us would have liked. Yet, among other things, I pride myself in having some degree of... patience. I, for one, don't expect a revolution at every release. If we'd let IGA continue to tread through the steady path he had set for the series, back in the time when he was working on the handhelds, I'm confident we would have gone somewhere truly significant. Instead, Konami chose to bow to the constant pressure of the modern market -- and things went downhill from there. Even IGA couldn't save the franchise.

You said you didn't wish for the series to stagnate. Well, you should be pleased, then. Lords of Shadow? Of course it wasn't a hollow, lazy Metroidvania. But to be exact, it almost wasn't a Castlevania at all...

[Belmontoya]

That's actually false because none of IGA's games sold as well as his first game. He peaked right away and consistently released less successful games from that point. Castlevania slowly declined under his leadership.

The series was at its best before IGA or Mercurysteam ever touched it.

The idea of CV 1-3 being done by IGA makes me cringe. All I can is thank god that will never happen.

[Nagumo]

@Beaumont_Belmont
I didn't say these "remakes" would need to be Metroid-type games. I just said they would need the same visual style so that you can clearly tell it takes place in the same universe as SotN etc.       


@Intersection
That's a difficult question. I always liked Tomokuni Katayama's violin rendition of Bloody Tears. If he's still around, maybe he could provide a few original songs? Honestly, as long as it isn't Araujo I would probably be fine with it. I would go for original songs, but I'd like a few remixes also, but probably not from the games themselves.   

[Intersection]

That's actually false because none of IGA's games sold as well as his first game. He peaked right away and consistently released less successful games from that point. Castlevania slowly declined under his leadership.

The series was at its best before IGA or Mercurysteam ever touched it.

The idea of CV 1-3 being done by IGA makes me cringe. All I can is thank god that will never happen.

Please don't invoke the sales argument again. All it ever does is have us go in circles. You're telling me Lords of Shadow was the best Castlevania game ever made, right? Because that's what sales figures tell us.

Castlevania was great before IGA touched it. For me, it remained great, albeit in different ways, while he was involved.
You and I both agree with the first sentence. That's good enough, I think. 

[Belmontoya]

The sales figures strengthen what most people already believe. And that is that SOTN was his best game. A poll recently posted on this forum by Pfil produced the same result. It's an opinion, supported by facts.

That means every game IGA made after SOTN was deductive. He had something like a decade to top or match his own game and he couldn't do it. That's not my idea of succesfuly carrying a franchise.

And SOTN was not a perfect game. The fans deserved to see CV taken to the next level, and all we got was a weaker version of the same game over and over again.

The sales figures indicate that LOS is the highest selling, best received game since SOTN.

I would love to see Arc System Works or Wayforward remake the original CV trilogy, or release their own new take on CV.

I would like to see mercurysteam off of CV after LoS2, and I would like IGA to stay off of Cv for the rest of his career.

[Intersection]

The sales figures strengthen what most people already believe. And that is that SOTN was his best game. A poll recently posted on this forum by Pfil produced the same result. It's an opinion, supported by facts.

That means every game IGA made after SOTN was deductive. He had something like a decade to top or match his own game and he couldn't do it. That's not my idea of succesfuly carrying a franchise.

And SOTN was not a perfect game. The fans deserved to see CV taken to the next level, and all we got was a weaker version of the same game over and over again.

The sales figures indicate that LOS is the highest selling, best received game since SOTN.

I would love to see Arc System Works or Wayforward remake the original CV trilogy, or release their own new take on CV.

I would like to see mercurysteam off of CV after LoS2, and I would like IGA to stay off of Cv for the rest of his career.

I'm telling you, sales figures are never a good reference for evaluating a game. You need to take into account the platform the game's released on, the audience the game is intended to appeal to, the style the game has adopted, the media coverage it's gotten, the state of the market, etc... There are too many factors involved for sales numbers alone to act as an objective argument. Good sales are not always indicative of a good game, nor are poor sales indicative of bad one. There are great games out there that have been overlooked, and massively marketed games can gather large revenues without having to be extraordinary.  The bottom line: the link between a game's quality and its sales is an exceedingly complicated and unstable one. Best not to invoke it.

But if you really want to argue based on sales:

That's actually false because none of IGA's games sold as well as his first game. He peaked right away and consistently released less successful games from that point. Castlevania slowly declined under his leadership.

No, what you wrote isn't quite true. First of all, I need your sources. But from what I've seen:
Between IGA's GBA/DS titles, which form the core of his golden era, sales numbers have remained essentially constant, even increasing with some of his particularly well-received games. As for the gap between SoTN's sales and those on the handhelds, that's normal: they're two very different platforms.
As for the 3D games: Lament of Innocence seems to have gathered comparable, if slightly inferior, sales to SoTN; Curse of Darkness, however, seems to have done considerably worse.
But again, these numbers don't mean much; we're treading on shifty sands here.

Now, from a critical viewpoint, you're completely off target. IGA's handhelds have received consistent praise from critics, and many of them come quite close the level of acclaim SoTN had gathered.
His 3D games have generally been less well received, but these can't be compared as easily to Symphony.

As for your poll argument, that hardly makes for an objective fact.
And of course that's what most people believe: SoTN holds a legendary status in the Castlevania series. But while the games that followed were certainly similar, that doesn't mean that they aren't good. In fact, they're terrific.

In my opinion? I'd like to see MercurySteam off of CV after LoS2, and would love to see IGA return afterwards.

But why don't we put this argument aside, and get back to the topic at hand?

[Beaumont_Belmont]

The majority of the Metroidvanias were turgid bores. They could have at least offered a hard difficulty. That's my biggest issue with that style- not the cookie cutter protagonists, not the re-used assets, not the lazy environments- the lack of challenge or surprise. No one will argue that Castlevania I through Bloodlines aren't tough as nails games. Then you come to Symphony where you can level up and use potions anywhere. It's not fun to me if there's no real resistance, if I can just level grind my way to victory instead of mastering a pattern to beat a boss.