Topic: The Lisa-Dracula romance

[theplottwist]

Now with this thread I am thinking, is there any part in the CVs game, in which Dracula says his name, or anyone says it? I remember only Alucard`s name in the Dracula`s Curse credits (Adrian F. Tepes)...

Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow's Alucard entry on the "Library".

[Mike Belmont]

Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow's Alucard entry on the "Library".

That`s right. Thanks for remind me that .

[X]

Now with this thread I am thinking, is there any part in the CVs game, in which Dracula says his name, or anyone says it? I remember only Alucard`s name in the Dracula`s Curse credits (Adrian F. Tepes)...

Tepes isn't really the last name of Dracula, but a nick-name. I'll assume that the CVIII development team and localizers didn't know it either so they just gave Alucard's last name as Tepes. This is about as close as we can get for the Dracula family name; Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia (1431–1476/77), was a member of the House of Drăculești, a branch of the House of Basarab, also known by his patronymic name: Dracula.

[Mike Belmont]

Tepes isn't really the last name of Dracula, but a nick-name. I'll assume that the CVIII development team and localizers didn't know it either so they just gave Alucard's last name as Tepes. This is about as close as we can get for the Dracula family name; Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia (1431–1476/77), was a member of the House of Drăculești, a branch of the House of Basarab, also known by his patronymic name: Dracula.

Thanks a lot for the information . That`s one of the reason that I like how CV and history have a little connection...

[K.K. Drunkinski]

Yeah they can't really be blamed for thinking "Tepes" was his last name, as countless articles and books make the backwards claim that "Dracula" was his nickname and "Tepes" was his last name. Sheer rubbish meant to distance him from his fictional vampire counterpart. The dude's name was "Dracula." Look at my signature, that's a photocopy of his actual handwriting, as he signed his name, just tinted red.

And I get that the Lisa thing makes sense when the Mathias thing is brought in, which is why I pointed out that it's hard to make sense of it if you use the old, PRE Mathias canon.

[Shiroi Koumori]

I've always read it the same was as theplottwist's said, Lisa is wife number two, but the reincarnation of Elisabeta.  Seeing as Stoker's Dracula is considered 'canon', and in the Sorrow game, Mina Hakuba sounds similar to Mina Harker, I read it that Mina Hakuba is the reincarnation of Mina Harker, who was in turn Lisa's reincarnation - they're the same soul, Drac's soulmate.

I am reminded of that really nice heart-tugging fanfiction that you shared to me which used that thought as a basis. And I do agree with what you said.

And I get that the Lisa thing makes sense when the Mathias thing is brought in, which is why I pointed out that it's hard to make sense of it if you use the old, PRE Mathias canon.

Keep the IGA stuff within the IGA canon, then there won't be much of a problem. 

[TatteredSeraph]

I am reminded of that really nice heart-tugging fanfiction that you shared to me which used that thought as a basis. And I do agree with what you said.

  I love that fic because it sits so well with my thoughts on the matter.  It makes complete sense to me, because Mina is the person who holds Soma back from turning into his dark self, and helps bring him back in way the others don't, and the prospect of her dying almost sends him over the edge, which heavily implies the soulmates connection.  She sees the goodness in his heart deep down, as Lisa did. 

  Regarding Lisa, I've always read it that she was a village healer/midwife type, the sort of woman who many stories of witches can be based on.  It's very easy to see why people in the Middle Ages found such people, with these seemingly strange abilities and knowledge as havin powers.  Of course, when Adrian was born, they likely would have seen some of the aspects of his dhampir nature - pale skin, golden eyes, and perhaps hints of his fangs, and they would have all too quickly come to the conclusion that Lisa had been consorting with the devil, with but the slightest provocation.  They wouldn't have needed to see her with Dracula.  My guess is that they met after he was out hunting, and was going to feed fom her, but then he saw the resemblance to Elisabeta, which stopped him.

[K.K. Drunkinski]

Keep the IGA stuff within the IGA canon, then there won't be much of a problem. 

I suppose you're right, but it still irks me some, because remember, IGA inserted the Lisa thing years before he invented the Mathias part, and I was already baffled by this problem before LoI ever came out. I was already a diehard fan well before LoI, and I guess that's why I've had such sour grapes about the Mathias thing ever since it happened. Didn't like it then, and still don't. Also, one thing about the whole Lisa thing in SotN that always seemed weird to me, is, did IGA kinda retcon the ending of SotN without saying so? Cuz at the end of the game, after you beat Drac, and Al tells him what Lisa's last words were, Drac repents for trying to kill mankind, quotes the bible (in a positive, remorseful way) and dies sad about what he's done all this time. But....next time he comes back, it's like that NEVER happened, and he's just as mad as ever.

[KaZudra]

I'm going with reincarnation on this one,
Not much has been known about Elizabetha, but I can blame bad storytelling on that but we do know that Lisa was practically Dracula's humanity.
If Mathias became Dracula afther Elizabetha's death, I can imagine her and Lisa were practically the same person, artwork also implies this.

When Lisa's last words were to not hate humans, I imagine she understood that they hated Dracula because of the creature he is, and not the person he is.
She saw the good in dracula and the years of Peace between LoI and Cv3 also implies that Lisa Death could have been the last straw.

As for the next game "nothing ever happened", I'm not sure, I want to say since Darc's full of Haterd, the Castle itself is his hatred and killing him on revival deosn't give him a chance to remember certain things, or simply he doesn't want to remember, this part is full of plot-holes.

[Shinobi]

That was a very similar case as Hector who also lost his love thanks to Isaac's manipulation then he falls in love again with a witch who has a resemblance to his lost love and happened to be Isaac's little sister.

[Super Waffle]

This thread got way too analytical for my tastes.

Plus I'm pretty sure you guys are talking about things that only got retconned into the series after SotN.

[X]

I suppose you're right, but it still irks me some, because remember, IGA inserted the Lisa thing years before he invented the Mathias part, and I was already baffled by this problem before LoI ever came out. I was already a diehard fan well before LoI, and I guess that's why I've had such sour grapes about the Mathias thing ever since it happened. Didn't like it then, and still don't.

This irks me too, however just do what I do K.K. Drunkinski; Ignore the Dracula/Mathias connection entirely. In an interview IGA has stated that Mathias is Dracula, but nowhere in the game does it outright state this. It's ambiguous at best. So it leaves it open to personal interpretation. I enjoy LoI more this way cause of the game's lack of story stating that Mathias is Dracula. I'm free to interpret what happens after the game has ended.

Also, one thing about the whole Lisa thing in SotN that always seemed weird to me, is, did IGA kinda retcon the ending of SotN without saying so? Cuz at the end of the game, after you beat Drac, and Al tells him what Lisa's last words were, Drac repents for trying to kill mankind, quotes the bible (in a positive, remorseful way) and dies sad about what he's done all this time. But....next time he comes back, it's like that NEVER happened, and he's just as mad as ever.

I was also scratching my head because of this as well. It didn't make sense. From a story prospective SotN--and how it ended--should have been the last CV entry of the entire series.

[KaZudra]

wouldn't it be easier if LoI wasn't canon?
The Mathias=Dracula thing never came into fruition.
Establishing Belmonts, then expect the family to track a low profile Dracula for roughly 400 years was pretty half-baked.
The Vampire Killer's Origins still has no bearing on any of the future games.

An Origin story is supposed to be an Essential story, Still Cv3 fits that.

Although, it would have been cool if LoI left out Dracula and Went with Walter instead, establishing the Belmonts as renowned Vampire hunters, then Cover Dracula in another game.

Note: LoI is one of my favorite Cv games, but the establishments made 0 sense on how it was presented.

[Flame]

Although, it would have been cool if LoI left out Dracula and Went with Walter instead, establishing the Belmonts as renowned Vampire hunters, then Cover Dracula in another game.

Note: LoI is one of my favorite Cv games, but the establishments made 0 sense on how it was presented.

Mathias and Dracula WERE pretty shoehorned in there, as was Death. if it was just Walter, with a secondary form, we'd have a traditional CV game, with a twist.

If they had actually made us fight mathias, then we'd be really talkin', but legit he only appears a few minutes before the final boss.

Walter being the Belmont's cause for hunting the night is neat, yknow, vamping Sarah and all, but it's not necessarily a strong enough reason to doom your entire bloodline of future descendants to the same cause. mathias in concept, works, since it was a betrayal by his closest friend. mathias manipulated EVERYTHING, including Sarah's death, so that he could gain immortality from Walter's soul through the Crimson stone.

It works. there's a very personal betrayal at play, that mathias has betrayed leon, and so he seeks revenge, deciding to hunt down ALL unholy creatures until the day he and his clan can get his hands on mathias himself. Yknow, a blood feud.

That all said, it was poorly executed.

[darkwzrd4]

It would have been better if Mathias and Leon went to the castle together and met up a few times during the adventure like with Juste and Maxim in HoD.