Topic: Will indie gaming will take over FPS&casual gaming fad for good

[ROCKMAN X]

I mean its funny how i don't give 2 licks of a damn "next gen" games anymore.... i care more about low-budged mighty no 9,H-hour,The evil within,Stasis,next car game,Hotline Miami 2! its CRAZY!

It seems like indie gaming is completely going to curb-stomp the nauseating mediocrity that is casual gaming.. sure there's your multiplayer bullshit that keeps the crowd in line but for how long? it seems to me like an endless stream diverse games from indie games will simply obliterate shooter fad for good.

And if you own a PC you already know that Steam library is MASSIVE its only a matter of time when its the same for PS4,xbox one.

[Lelygax]

I dont have sure how to answer this be reading the title, since FPS and casual are a genre, while indie isn't. A perfect example is that we can have a indie game that is a FPS or casual if some person wants to do one.

If you look at steam you will see that almost 50% if not more than that of their library are casual games, you will find a lot of these point-n-click games and casual games. Almost all made by indies.

[Claimh Solais]

Heavily doubt that indie games will completely dominate the non-indie market. The damn indie market is just as oversaturated with shitty games and clones as the non-indie market is. People complain about all the CoD games and clones? Well what about all the Minecraft and Slender clones out there?

The "scariest" games the indie market brings us are the ones that rely solely on atmosphere to bring horror to people, using the same first-person gameplay in all of them (you know, the Slender clones). They're exceedingly bare-bones and have absolutely no replay value.

Not to mention the indie market almost ALWAYS relies on minimalistic ways to tell stories.

Hell, there's an indie game with the concept being "broken and glitchy". Like, literally glitchy. Not even clever use of the engine to make it look like it's glitching. They're literally marketing the game as unfinished and releasing it as such.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, no. Indie and non-indie games will pretty much co-exist from here on, since both are just as good and bad as the other.

[Lelygax]

Hell, there's an indie game with the concept being "broken and glitchy". Like, literally glitchy. Not even clever use of the engine to make it look like it's glitching. They're literally marketing the game as unfinished and releasing it as such.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIaFtAKnqBU
Goat Simulator? lol

Because if my guess is correct, its not fault from the developers. They said it out loud that it was meant to be a video showing the new engine they we're working for a racing game, its basically a collision test, they even said that they never planned to release it, but people insisted that they wanted this game for "teh lulz".

[Claimh Solais]

No, not that. Some other game I saw on... one of those bundle sites (Humble Bundle, Indie Gala, or Bundle Stars). Goat Simulator wasn't necessarily advertised as broken and glitchy. This game, one of its selling points literally was that it was broken and ridden with glitches.

[ROCKMAN X]

I dont have sure how to answer this be reading the title, since FPS and casual are a genre, while indie isn't. A perfect example is that we can have a indie game that is a FPS or casual if some person wants to do one.

If you look at steam you will see that almost 50% if not more than that of their library are casual games, you will find a lot of these point-n-click games and casual games. Almost all made by indies.

.

Heavily doubt that indie games will completely dominate the non-indie market. The damn indie market is just as oversaturated with shitty games and clones as the non-indie market is. People complain about all the CoD games and clones? Well what about all the Minecraft and Slender clones out there?

I think you guys are missing the point.. "indie" isn't a genre or a niche its just games developed by solo-developers and crowd funding.

And i'm looking forward to these crowd-funded,independently developed games more than say games like destiny and far cry 4 that is the point i'm trying to make.. we have yet to see a new Next gen IP which is something new&unique like GTA 4 or mario 64... most of AAA games are creatively bankrupt we're just seeing the same old games being polished in HD visuals but with indie games you can already see its something different&promising.

I'd argue that Steam has more quality games then there are on XBLA&PSN especially many niche RPG's that are only available via steam downloads.

It just seems to me like with the increased amount of budget no company is willing to make games that are creative and diverse they just want to sell what's assured to sell... IE:call of duty clones,assassins creed clones,skyrim clones,god of war clones etc etc

[Claimh Solais]

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I think you guys are missing the point.. "indie" isn't a genre or a niche its just games developed by solo-developers and crowd funding.

Never said indie was genre, nor did I imply it. I simply said indie games will not dominate the non-indie market.

And i'm looking forward to these crowd-funded,independently developed games more than say games like destiny and far cry 4 that is the point i'm trying to make.. we have yet to see a new Next gen IP which is something new&unique like GTA 4 or mario 64... most of AAA games we're just seeing the same old games being polished in HD visuals with indie gaming you can already see its something different.

To each their own. I don't need a unique and innovative game every time I finish another game. As long as the game is entertaining and fun, then isn't that all that matters?

And besides, you actually need to look. There are games that are doing unique things all the time. Hell, every Suda game takes a typical ol' genre and puts a unique spin on it, like Lollipop Chainsaw taking beat-em-up and adding a layer of strategy to it, or Killer Is Dead combining the aspects of a hack-n-slash and a third-person shooter, mixed in heavily with puzzle game elements and other psychological elements.

On the flipside, the indie market also has its share of the exact same game being published with a different name and different graphics. Yes, it has tons of unique games in its market, but it also has a ton of games that are absolute shit. Case in point, take a look at the XBLA indie section. I found one game worth buying (Tempura of the Dead, fantastic game).

Both markets have their share of fantastic games, good games, bad games, and absolute shit games.

I'd argue that Steam has more quality games then there are on XBLA&PSN especially many niche RPG's that are only available via steam downloads.

Well, obviously Steam would have a bigger variety. It is PC, after all, and its far easier to make video games for PC than consoles. Especially with RPG Maker being big as of late, too, there will be a lot of niche RPGs only available on Steam.

[Lelygax]

I think you guys are missing the point.. "indie" isn't a genre or a niche its just games developed by solo-developers and crowd funding.

Never said its a genre, but instead I said it ISN'T a genre

I dont have sure how to answer this be reading the title, since FPS and casual are a genre, while indie isn't. A perfect example is that we can have a indie game that is a FPS or casual if some person wants to do one.

And i'm looking forward to these crowd-funded,independently developed games more than say games like destiny and far cry 4 that is the point i'm trying to make.. we have yet to see a new Next gen IP which is something new&unique like GTA 4 or mario 64... most of AAA games are creatively bankrupt we're just seeing the same old games being polished in HD visuals but with indie games you can already see its something different&promising.

I'd argue that Steam has more quality games then there are on XBLA&PSN especially many niche RPG's that are only available via steam downloads.

It just seems to me like with the increased amount of budget no company is willing to make games that are creative and diverse they just want to sell what's assured to sell... IE:call of duty clones,assassins creed clones,skyrim clones,god of war clones etc etc

Like I've pointed before, it seems that the "Indie market" have more good games recently only because it gets more "chances". For example:

Big corporations way:

Guy 1: I've got an idea
Guy 2: Well, it will be lucrative?
Guy 1: I don't know, but it can be good because of..!
Guy 2: If you don't know, forget it and think about something that give us more money!

Indie way:

Indie man: I've got an idea, I don't know if it will sell well, but let's find out.

And because of this, we get more good games while we also get more shitty games. You see? Its because the amount of games being launched is bigger that we get more good games, the difference is that you would never know about these bad indie games because they dont appear on TV-ads and people will not talk about them, while people talk about bad games made by big companies and some of them even are advertised on TV.

[ROCKMAN X]

the non-indie market.

See this is what i was talking about there's no "non-indie market"  it is just as much of a part of active gaming market as AAA&Casual gamers(ie:angry birds,candy crush)... i was just suggesting that future big budget indie games will change the interests of common gamer enough to end the shooter craze.

To each their own. I don't need a unique and innovative game every time I finish another game.

isn't that why we play different games anyway? we always want to try our something new,no one likes playing the same old thing over and over we'll get bored someday and buy games that do offer us something different.

As long as the game is entertaining and fun, then isn't that all that matters?

People say the same about transformers movies.

And besides, you actually need to look. There are games that are doing unique things all the time.

sadly indie scene is the only place where they're trying something new.. in AAA games only 2 games that do something "Different" are Portal and Dark souls.

Killer Is Dead combining the aspects of a hack-n-slash and a third-person shooter

Crimson sea 2 did it better.. killer is dead was mediocre the humor&sexual innuendos was annoying.

Both markets have their share of fantastic games, good games, bad games, and absolute shit games.

Indie still has more diversity&innovative games though nowadays in AAA games all you can find is cinematic shooters or an overabundance of generic WRPG's ugh i'm sick of it.

its far easier to make video games for PC than consoles.

its actually a myth that consoles are harder to develop.. only coding games for consoles with alien architecture like PS3&Sega Saturn is harder consoles like xbox are based on PC architecture that is just as to make games for and current gen consoles have adapted a more common pc like architecture.

[Claimh Solais]

Non-indie market = Video games in the market that aren't made by indie developers. Do I seriously have to explain this one?

And no, that's not why I play different games. For example, Dynasty Warriors 8 and Darksiders are both games that I enjoy, but neither of them are innovative. But they're different from each other. And they're both fun, and thus I play them.

Also, your Transformers argument is pretty dumb. It's different for movies where story is literally a focus on keeping people interested. If a movie's plot is shit, then most people won't watch it. But for a video game, if the plot is shit, it can still be immensely enjoyable for gameplay, atmosphere, plenty other things. So no, the Transformers movies aren't a good comparison to interactive entertainment.

The indie market is not the only place to find something new. Tons of popular indie games are very similar to each other. Example? The Slender example. Slender, Amnesia, Outlast, etc. are all popular, but are all pretty much the same thing. SOUNDS LIKE VARIETY TO ME. Oh yeah, LOOK. TONS OF "8-BIT" AND "16-BIT" PLATFORMERS WITH A GIMMICK THAT MAKES THEM SOOOO INNOVATIVE.

See what I did there? I dumbed down indie games to first-person horror games and retro-styled platformers. Kind of like how you dumbed down the gaming industry itself to shooters and casual games.

It doesn't matter whether or not Killer Is Dead or Crimson Sea 2 did it better. Fact of the matter is they both did it. (for the record, I think Killer Is Dead did it better because the game is far deeper than Crimson Sea 2).

Give me an example of this diversity in the indie market that you speak of that completely destroys the rest of the gaming industry. And would you stop dumbing the gaming industry down to AAA titles? There are tons of other niche games and developers that also provide gaming experiences that range anywhere from beautiful to crap (just like the indie market!).

And no, PC is easier to develop for, because it has the far better and more developed modern RPG Makers and then even Game Maker to back it up. Neither of these require coding skill in order to make good or even decent games. I'm not sure whether or not Game Maker can port to other consoles, but doing so requires coding skill, which, in turn, makes it harder to develop for. Most of these niche RPGs that you find on Steam and such were made on RPG Maker, a lot of which use basic coding at best, most of which you can find pre-done for you on various RPG Maker message boards.

Basically, neither indie nor non-indie is better than the other. You're just so stuck on the AAA games and only seeing stuff like Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare, Titanfall, Halo 5, Assassin's Creed: Unity (and Rogue), Grand Theft Auto V, Uncharted, The Last of Us, etc. and ignoring more niche games or not-as-popular games like Drakengard 3, Dynasty Warriors 8, TRINITY: Souls of Zill O'll, Sonic Generations (because we know Sonic isn't mainstream anymore), the Tales games, and... oh yeah, the Ys games.

[Dracula9]

The "scariest" games the indie market brings us are the ones that rely solely on atmosphere to bring horror to people, using the same first-person gameplay in all of them (you know, the Slender clones). They're exceedingly bare-bones and have absolutely no replay value.

Not to mention the indie market almost ALWAYS relies on minimalistic ways to tell stories.

Hell, there's an indie game with the concept being "broken and glitchy". Like, literally glitchy. Not even clever use of the engine to make it look like it's glitching. They're literally marketing the game as unfinished and releasing it as such.

This is actually exactly my reference of what not to do with Kadath.

I dumbed down indie games to first-person horror games and retro-styled platformers.

Bu...but I'm combing both of those things! Does that still count as dumb?

And for the record of being on-topic; X, while I share your distaste for how watered-down the FPS market has become, that doesn't mean all FPS games (or any shooter, really, there've been some good run-n-guns) are automatically bad and should be phased out. I don't want the 'shooter craze' to die out; rather, I'd prefer they start becoming less about swapping a few guns and changing characters and stages, but still shooting terrorists in the desert and more about doing something a little more original. Granted, that'd be easier if there weren't already and FPS for almost every theme you can imagine, but even so.

And, actually, CoD and its like games aren't all bad. It's their goddamned fanbase of hormonally-charged, sexually frustrated twelve-year-olds that ruin the series' image. Because Wolfenstein: The New Order could easily be lumped in with the CoD craze in play style, but it's still a great fucking game.

EDIT: Hey, now. Goat Simulator is pretty fun and good for some cheap laughs...for about ten minutes.

[ROCKMAN X]

 

Non-indie market = Video games in the market that aren't made by indie developers. Do I seriously have to explain this one?

well saying that "indie games will never completely dominate non-indie market confused me" why can't they? they're made by devs that are willing to take more risks and with enough budget they can match AAA quality of graphics.

But they're different from each other.

This is the point i'm trying to me most AAA are not different enough.

It's different for movies where story is literally a focus on keeping people interested. If a movie's plot is shit, then most people won't watch it.

That's not true AT ALL! transformers movies have shitty stories... people only watch it for explosions and cool CGI fights its analogous to the COD crowd who only play games because they like to blow stuff up and look at 1080P graphics... this is something i would like to dub "Shallow entertainment".

But for a video game, if the plot is shit, it can still be immensely enjoyable for gameplay, atmosphere, plenty other things.

That's because in video games story doesn't matter,if you take down the story from all the popular video games they're all just B-movie level writing at best but they compliment the game so it doesn't matter.

The indie market is not the only place to find something new.

You are partially right there is a sh!t ton of ps2/ps1/16&8 bit games.

SOUNDS LIKE VARIETY TO ME.

HA HA is that a joke? just because you've only heard about 3 popular games you've automatically decided that that's all indie gaming has to offer? ever heard of KICKSTARTER? there is shit ton of different games being made... Mighty 9,The Girl and the Robot,Next car game,Stasis,Dreamfall chapters,Shantae,H-hour,A hat in time,Chasm these are just few of the ones i'm looking forward to! you're just simply turning a blind eye towards all these games just because they're not as rabidly popular as awful indie horror games like slender and amnesia.

Oh yeah, LOOK. TONS OF "8-BIT" AND "16-BIT" PLATFORMERS.

Only 2 games i've listed above are  2d sprite based platformers go figure.. most recently Cloudbuilt has caught my attention and  it was also a kickstarter/indie game.

Kind of like how you dumbed down the gaming industry itself to shooters and casual games.

You wanna bet?  Resident evil,Tomb raider,Hitman,splinter cell,fallout  they used to be some of the most fun and unique games but now they're just identical shooter adventure games... where the hell did the diversity go?

Give me an example of this diversity in the indie market that you speak of that completely destroys the rest of the gaming industry.

I don't even have to.. all the modern AAA games are as homogenized as white people in full house! anything with a speck of diversity like indie games can make them look inferior.

"because it has the far better and more developed modern RPG Makers"

The only RPG maker game i remember playing was Cave story and that was okayish.

"Most of these niche RPGs that you find on Steam and such were made on RPG Maker"

You can't make games like Transistor,limbo&bastion with RPG maker -_-

and ignoring more niche games or not-as-popular games like Drakengard 3, Dynasty Warriors 8, TRINITY: Souls of Zill O'll, Sonic Generations (because we know Sonic isn't mainstream anymore)

are you kidding me? these stupid games are just as popular! dynasty warriors is like the call of duty of hack'n'slash genre and i really don't have any faith in square enix i really don't... they've fu*ked up so many franchises and even their own flagship RPG Final fantasy series they don't have the RPG golden touch they had a decade ago.

oh yeah, the Ys games.

err.. YS belongs to the Ps2 generation of gaming and most importantly Ys origin&Ys Oath of felghana is only available on STEAM! they're not on PS3 or 360 thus not for causal&console gamers.

[X]

And for the record of being on-topic; X

Huh?? I didn't say anything as this is my first post here. I think you mean 'ROCKMAN X' there buddy.

[Claimh Solais]

It's really bugging me that everytime I quote you it's shoving all the text into one giant block of text. Makes it really hard to quote, lol. (this isn't a crack at you, just saying, lol).

Basically, the crack about me saying indie games are largely first-person survival horror games and retro platformers was a joke on how you were only ever really bringing up AAA shooters and casual games. It wasn't me bashing the indie scene, more of me minimalizing it the same way you were doing so with the non-indie part of the industry.

As for the Transformers movies, I don't really know a single person that likes any of them. I really don't. I like the first one, since it was actually a pretty decent movie, but the next two felt really... bleh. I don't have anything to say about the Mark Wahlberg movie.

Also, yeah, seems you agree with me on the plots/video-games argument. We have no disagreements there.

I'm turning a blind eye to the non-rabidly popular ones? You're kinda doing the same thing to the non-indie market. I don't consider Mighty No. 9 super unique for these reasons: Haven't played it since it's not out, and it looks to resemble Explodemon a lot. As for the rest, I don't think I've heard about any (except Shantae), so I think I'll check them out. Thank you for that. I'm glad you didn't make mention of Fez, because that's by no means a unique game (And Yet It Moves is an indie game where you must also rotate the world to find new paths and stuff, though only on a 2D plane. Lost In Shadow is a game that pre-dates Fez and has the same rotating a 3D world gimmick in it).

Shantae, though, while having a lot of cool uses for its stuff, doesn't seem too innovative.

Also, please note that me saying these games aren't innovative doesn't mean I think they're bad games. After all, one of the ones I mentioned was Tempura of the Dead (which isn't popular either) and is not even close to innovative, but I love the hell out of that game.

I don't see how Hitman or Splinter Cell should be shoved into that list of games that have changed into "generic action-shooter games". Both of their newest releases (Absolution and Blacklist) play just like updated versions of their previous games. Hitman so much so that I stopped playing it cuz it felt way too damn clunky for me.

...Cave Story was made on RPG Maker? I didn't know that. And Limbo's not even an RPG. It's a puzzle/platformer. Why would you make that on RPG Maker? Aaaaand note I said most. Not all of them, obviously.

Dynasty Warriors is not even close to a AAA franchise, you know. Absolutely not. Neither are any of the other games in that list. The only one close enough to AAA would be Sonic Generations.

...Actually, is Sonic considered AAA still? I really don't know on that one.

Ys: The Oath in Felghana is also on PSP. It didn't come here to Steam until I think three years after the PSP release. And Ys: Memories of Celceta, the newest game in the series, is on Vita. Also, what does them being only on PC have to do with anything? We're not arguing PC versus console, you know.

Anyway, at this point. I'm only gonna agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

EDIT: I missed Dracula9's post. My bad. Yeah, basically, a game being similar to another game doesn't automatically make it bad. In fact, the Call of Duty games are fun. Granted, I only play them for their campaigns and I usually wait for a heavy price drop, but even then, they're really fun.

EDIT 2.0: I also have to point out that the only time Resident Evil was ever really diverse was RE4. The previous games, the tank-controlled survival horror games? Countdown Vampires, Alone in the Dark, Last Alert, Dino Crisis, Carrier, Vampire Hunter D (though it more resembles Onimusha), Fear Effect, Parasite Eve 2, etc. Most "RE clones" either pre-date Resident Evil, or do a lot of things better than RE. However, I feel RE has this charm that isn't quite replicated in its clones, kinda like Warriors clones don't replicate the same feel as the actual Warriors games.

[Dracula9]

Huh?? I didn't say anything as this is my first post here. I think you mean 'ROCKMAN X' there buddy.

I did, lol. I have a habit of making nick-usernames of sorts. I guess I kinda forgot there were two Xs here. :X