Topic: Juste's connection to the Belnades family.

[Nagumo]

Something I've been wondering about. Everybody says Juste can use magics because he inherited Sypha's genes, but that's not the way it's ever described in offical material. The European manual of HoD states: "[Juste] is also closely related to the Belnades family". From the way it's phrased, I don't think it's supposed to refer to an ancestor from 300 years ago. Could it be that his mother or grandmother is a Belnades? I know from the family tree the Belnades family consists of two branches (Yoko is from a different branch than Sypha). So perhaps someone from this alternate branch married someone from the Belmont family?

[Ratty]

Something I've been wondering about. Everybody says Juste can use magics because he inherited Sypha's genes, but that's not the way it's ever described in offical material. The European manual of HoD states: "[Juste] is also closely related to the Belnades family". From the way it's phrased, I don't think it's supposed to refer to an ancestor from 300 years ago. Could it be that his mother or grandmother is a Belnades? I know from the family tree the Belnades family consists of two branches (Yoko is from a different branch than Sypha). So perhaps someone from this alternate branch married someone from the Belmont family?

That's what I've always assumed. Maybe his father or Simon eventually married a Belnades. I mean it's not really gross or unreasonable when you consider A.) How long ago the Belmont and Belnades union would have been by that point. and B.) The historical time and place of the setting. And the fact that it's reasonable to assume that members of the Belmont and Belnades clans could naturally sympathize and grow close with one another more easily than most normal mortals could with a member of either family.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

I've always assumed his father married a direct descendant of the belnades.

[Inccubus]

What does the Japanese manual say?

[Nagumo]

I took a look and I saw ヴェルナンデスの血 (blood of Vernandes), and I also saw the kanji for inheritance (継). Most likely it's says Juste inherited the blood of the Belnades family, which is similair to the European manual.       

[zangetsu468]

Presumably Trevor and Sypha hook up, right? I just assumed, that Juste was the offspring of Trevor's blood descendant, who reproduced with another Belnades (and that Belnades was not necessarily a descendant of Sypha)

It could be he just inherited his magical abilities through his bloodline, but then again nothing indicates that Simon - who was prior to Juste - did, so it seems unlikely.

[Claimh Solais]

It's also safe to assume that there were other branches of both families, probably in or before Trevor and Sypha's generations. Perhaps two of these branches came together and eventually led to Juste? iunno

I basically thought about it like... with Assassin's Creed, how Desmond is related to the Ibn-La'Ahad, Auditore, and Kenway families, but the Kenway family isn't related to the other two, but the other two ARE related. Something like that.

I mean, there's nothing to say there was only ONE Belmont each generation. After all, Desmond (Belmont) had siblings.

[zangetsu468]

I mean, there's nothing to say there was only ONE Belmont each generation. After all, Desmond (Belmont) had siblings.

No there isn't, however, presumably the whip's user is of the direct bloodline coming from Leon.
I believe this is why the whip has a memory, and if the memory doesn't recognise the user as a direct blood connection, they have to defeat that memory. Just as Jonathan Morris has to in POR.

[Claimh Solais]

No there isn't, however, presumably the whip's user is of the direct bloodline coming from Leon.
I believe this is why the whip has a memory, and if the memory doesn't recognise the user as a direct blood connection, they have to defeat that memory. Just as Jonathan Morris has to in POR.

Yes, that's true. However, the branches in the bloodlines could have come after Leon. Leon could have given birth to say... three children, and each one of those children had multiple children, anywhere from two to three. At that point, even though there's so many, they're all directly related to Leon.

[zangetsu468]

Yes, that's true. However, the branches in the bloodlines could have come after Leon. Leon could have given birth to say... three children, and each one of those children had multiple children, anywhere from two to three. At that point, even though there's so many, they're all directly related to Leon.

The bloodlines deviating is evident, particularly in OOE. But we know to some extent, the main bloodline (presumably from Leon) was an important part of the Belmont lineage. Simon is referred to as Juste's grandfather, the GBA titles are about father/son Christopher and Soleiyu, and even Richter refers back to his Ancestor, Trevor. Julius is presumably part of the original bloodline.

When I say direct descendant this is what I mean:

As you say, Leon Belmont may have had 3 children who have 3 children, who have 3 children etc, and this multiplies the Belmont family, all being related to Leon.
However, Two things are apparent:

1) There will always be a Belmont heir who is male. We know this because the name 'Belmont' has spanned from Leon>>>>Julius, over 1000 years. What we can assume from this is what a male will always be born in the Belmont bloodline.
The name was never lost, hence, there was always a male to carry that name, in every generation. All we can assume is that if there is more than 1 male, the most worthy heir inherits the VK. For some reason the heir is never female. (they haven't yet been)

2) We know that there were instances when females were born and the name was not carried (Daniela; OOE - has memories of fighting monsters with her grandfather) Canonically, Bloodlines and POR are the only instances when Belmonts who didn't carry the Belmont name, wield the VK. At some point after 1797, the Belmonts no longer use the VK and the last Belmont to use it is Julius.
Again the users of the VK are male, whether this is coincidence with the Morris family or not, is debatable.

My point is that just because someone is directly descended, it doesn't keep the desired bloodline, nor does it maintain the family name.

[DragonSlayr81]

I think (don't quote this as truth, but it's solely my opinion) that, true, the Belmonts likely produce entire families of potential heirs, only one is chosen carry on the Vampire Killer legacy. Perhaps it's the eldest son(which a lot of times were chosen to carry on a family business) who's chosen, or(which I think is more possible), it's the most able bodied child. Or hell, maybe the Whip chooses it's new master. I always have had this idea of a Belmont rite of passage where the able children all compete to prove themselves as potential heirs, but only one is chosen as the suitable wielder of the VK whip. That would actually make a GREAT story for a CV game(surprised it hasn't been done yet, because you could create some good character development and drama regarding the rivalries between siblings who seek to inherit the whip and "glory" that comes with it.

And what of the Belmont siblings that don't inherit the whip? They probably live normal lives(as normal as one of the Belmont clan could live, I guess, as in OoE, a lot of the descendants in Wygol seemed to vary regarding jobs). Of course, like I said, I think just BEING in the Belmont family gives them some sort of natural power against evil. I'd imagine some become priests, nuns, hunters and knights. And yes, it's from these non-heirs of the VK whip that the offshoot clans stem from. I've said this before, it's the sister of a Belmont heir that eventually marries a man with the surname of "Morris" and HER blood is responsible for Quincy, John and Jonathan. The Schneiders, the Renards and Lecardes(ahem!) are descended from these "siblings".

And my opinion regarding the Belnades is that they probably kept close ties with the Belmonts throughout history. My guess is that Yoko is a descendant of Sypha's brother(and I'd imagine Charlotte Aulin's descended from a female Belnades, perhaps Sypha's sister, female cousin or brother's female descendant). And interestingly enough, Yoko and every Belmont descended from Trevor and Sypha share a common Belnades ancestor as well. It's the families rooting within each other. I think Juste has inherited some latent magical powers, and that the degree to which a Belmont exibits magical properties differs from person to person. I think Richter's Item Crash is a result of HIS magical abilities. And offshoots, Maria Renard's magical prowess also stems from her Belnades blood.

[darkwzrd4]

It's possible that Juste's power isn't simply from Belnades genes inherited from his ancestor Sypha. For all we know, his mother or grandmother had some sort of magical ability that just messed well with what he got for his ancestor. Hence, he was more magical than his predecessors.

Or, it could have something to do with the his Belnades genes from Sypha and the magical tomes he found. Maybe the tomes have some ties to the Belnades bloodline.

[DragonSlayr81]

It's possible that Juste's power isn't simply from Belnades genes inherited from his ancestor Sypha. For all we know, his mother or grandmother had some sort of magical ability that just messed well with what he got for his ancestor. Hence, he was more magical than his predecessors.

Or, it could have something to do with the his Belnades genes from Sypha and the magical tomes he found. Maybe the tomes have some ties to the Belnades bloodline.

A part of me likes to think that he's more sensitive than others in his family. Kinda like how how they say with psychics or those who can see ghosts(or mediums), some are born with that power, some aren't. Just because YOU have that ability doesn't mean every one of your child will have that same ability. Hell, it might skip a generation and resurface in only one of your many grandchildren. I kinda feel that way regarding Juste's magical abilities. There might be others in the Belmont family that exibit magical powers(well, Maria Renard most definitely does) that aren't notable to the series, to greater or lesser degrees.

I do think whatever powers different Belmont kin have, they use it in whatever field they become professionals in. I can see some magically gifted Belmonts(who weren't chosen as the VK heir of their generation) becoming nuns, monks and priests, healing the sick and exorcising demons. 

[darkwzrd4]

A part of me likes to think that he's more sensitive than others in his family. Kinda like how how they say with psychics or those who can see ghosts(or mediums), some are born with that power, some aren't. Just because YOU have that ability doesn't mean every one of your child will have that same ability. Hell, it might skip a generation and resurface in only one of your many grandchildren. I kinda feel that way regarding Juste's magical abilities. There might be others in the Belmont family that exibit magical powers(well, Maria Renard most definitely does) that aren't notable to the series, to greater or lesser degrees.

I do think whatever powers different Belmont kin have, they use it in whatever field they become professionals in. I can see some magically gifted Belmonts(who weren't chosen as the VK heir of their generation) becoming nuns, monks and priests, healing the sick and exorcising demons.

All that is likely true. Plus, not all Belmonts fought against Dracula. Some lived peace lives without ever having to do battle with Drac. So, it's possible that there are others like Juste who are more mage than warrior. They just never had to go fight monsters (or just haven't been featured in their own game).

[X]

The Schneiders, the Renards and Lecardes(ahem!) are descended from these "siblings".

Renard, not Renards actually. Remember Annette and Maria are not blood related but Maria and Richter are. Just in case you forgot 

Just because YOU have that ability doesn't mean every one of your child will have that same ability. Hell, it might skip a generation and resurface in only one of your many grandchildren.

Recessive genes. This is most-likely the case as to how I see Juste Belmont wielding magic similar to Sypha. I don't see having another Belnades marry into the family necessary in order to recuperate a loss of magical power. I would hap-hazard a guess that Sypha's genes (magical abilities) were dormant in many of the Belmonts till Juste was born.