Topic: AoS plothole

[Akumajou Jason XX]

I think it's a sort've similar take on multi-cultural mysticism. I don't see Dracula's Castle being sealed within the PHYSICAL eclipse more than the qualifications to open a specific portal can ONLY be met with the eclipse and that's where Dracula's Castle is sealed.

This makes much more sense.  Thank you!

[Inccubus]

I think it's similar to the fusion techniques in DBZ. They can merge to become one powerful enemy, but still are individuals.

Regarding the eclipse thing, I think it's a part of mysticism. Some lore and mysticism tell of certain gates to "other worlds" that can only be open via certain means, like astological alignment or time of the year where our world passes through the certain spot in space where these portals exist. Some think even the coming of the night acts as the means to unveil these "holes"/"gates" and allow spirits to enter our world. I know some places in the Southwest(namely Arizona and New Mexico) where the Native Americans believed of certain spots where the dead/spirits could enter the world and are highly active at night(both attacking people and causing mischief). Celtic people believed in "thin places", areas of the world where the realm of the living overlaps with the realm of the spirits and those of the spirit realm can cross over(places that are "haunted" or cursed, as well as places of great magical potency). I mean, given the time of year we're in, Samhain and Dia de los Muertos all revolved around a superstitious belief that it was a certain time in the year where the dead could return to the world of the living(for a limited time only). Interestingly enough, bringing up Halloween(the movie series), one of John Carpenter's early reasons for Michael Myers going on a killing spree was that he felt Michael was ultra-sensitive to in influx of spirits during Samhain/Halloween, and it caused him to go "dark"(basically lose himself to his inhuman persona).

I think it's a sort've similar take on multi-cultural mysticism. I don't see Dracula's Castle being sealed within the PHYSICAL eclipse more than the qualifications to open a specific portal can ONLY be met with the eclipse and that's where Dracula's Castle is sealed.

I'm reminded of that huge boulder with the  'doorway' carved into it in South America that the local shaman refer to as the star gate.

And well put, my friend.

[Dracula9]

Found an even bigger plothole: Death shouldn't exist. Why? Because: At the end of PoR, Dracula absorbed and destroyed Death. Therefore, Death shouldn't exist.

Death in the Castlevania series is essentially a series of physical avatars for the actual force of Death. Since Death cannot be killed, as he is a fundamental part of the cycle of life and the universe (or implied in LoI that he has 'divine powers,' indicating a connection to God which also puts him high on the no-kill list), all that can be done is destroying his physical avatars and thus weakening his ability to manifest himself for a time. I don't think Death just twiddles his thumbs while Drac's dead, he still has to go about his business everywhere else; because of this, I theorize that Death has access to countless physical avatars all over the world, but he reserves the strongest puppet for when Dracula is alive. With this idea in mind, it can be assumed that this super-body takes time to build up in strength, and this is what Death does during Drac's periods of 'death.' Once that super-body is destroyed by a Belmont or whomever else, it can't be whipped back into existence as Death's theoretical 'common reaper' avatars can. It takes however long is necessary to recreate that powerful avatar, and Death stows it away for the day his bro wakes up again.

This theory could also be tied into Death being an agent of Chaos, since death as a process, and the decomposition that comes with it, could be considered a form of entropy. Entropy being an essential part of Chaos, Death could potentially be an agent of entropy, and thus due to THIS connection with an even more fundamental part of of the universe, Death can't truly be killed.

I think Dracula absorbing his 'power' in PoR isn't so much him absorbing Death's fundamental soul and essence (yes, I know he says "Soul Steal" when doing it, but that's just the name given to that ability), but the immense power and fragmented soul-of-sorts contained within that super-body.

tl;dr you can't kill Death. Unless Abdul Alhazred is involved.

[theANdROId]

So, death has a day job!  One needs gold even in hell these days...or so I've heard. ;-) 

[Akumajou Jason XX]

One thing that's always bugged me about any story that involves "Death", demons, hell, ghosts, etc. is the fact that it only ever really deals with the "bad" aspects of the afterlife.  It's always about the bad things that happen when people die.  Hardly anyone ever goes up into some form of "Heaven", and even if they do, you never see or hear of a literal "god's" involvement. 

I can fully understand the reasons behind this sort of practice, but let's face it.  If ghosts exist, this confirms the existence of an afterlife of some sort.  If you can go to Hell, you can go to Heaven.  If there's a Heaven, there's a god. 

So...god's just sitting around, chillin'?  Drinkin' a Bud?  Some people might say that god works through others by giving people like the Belmonts the power they need to fight evil.  This seems like a pretty weak explanation.  Evil can have obvious physical manifestations, but good has to work through subtle machinations?

Not something that bothers me TOO much when it comes to Castlevania, but it's something that's always in the back of my mind with that sort of premise.

[Dracula9]

So...god's just sitting around, chillin'?  Drinkin' a Bud?  Some people might say that god works through others by giving people like the Belmonts the power they need to fight evil.  This seems like a pretty weak explanation.  Evil can have obvious physical manifestations, but good has to work through subtle machinations?

Very simple answer to that. People will bitch more about a deus ex machina being involved than they will over a botched dichotomy. It's barely fair and makes even less sense, but that's one reason.

[Akumajou Jason XX]

That definitely makes sense, but I'd say it's more likely because nobody wants to depict god in any way, shape, or form.  Somehow you can talk about the devil and hell all you want, but god is off limits.

That's one of the things I always really appreciated about the Shin Megami Tensei series.  God and the Devil are literal beings in that universe, and they both have positive and negative traits.  Everyone else is just stuck in the middle of their dick measuring contest.

[X]

That definitely makes sense, but I'd say it's more likely because nobody wants to depict god in any way, shape, or form.  Somehow you can talk about the devil and hell all you want, but god is off limits.

We all create god in our own mind's imagination, so 'he'/'she'/'it' can be anything. It all depends on the individual in question. Unlike the devil (satan) who was given a very clear image classification, god was not. Maybe they avoid showing or describing him cause they don't want to offend other people's personal interpretations of what god could be for them.

Everyone else is just stuck in the middle of their dick measuring contest.

And that's pretty much how it is in real life too, lol.

[Koutei]

There is a myth called Amano-Iwato in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amano-Iwato
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu

An ancient Japanese thought that it saw the solar eclipse, and hid the goddess of the sun in the cave.

[Nagumo]

^Mina also tells Soma about that legend in AoS. Amaterasu, the sun goddess, hides from Susanoo in a cave. As a result, the world becomes dark, which subdues Susanoo's anger. Because of that, the power of an eclipse is said to seal away evil intentions, according to Mina. Hence, the Habuka family's magic has "the power to control even gods".

[theANdROId]

...Somehow you can talk about the devil and hell all you want, but god is off limits...

...People will bitch more about a deus ex machina being involved than they will over a botched dichotomy. It's barely fair and makes even less sense, but that's one reason.

Personally, I think the bigger reason is as Drac9 said -- if you start going into too much detail on God, or using Him too much, people start to gripe about it because it obviously means you're being preachy and trying to force your view of religion on them.  I often hear the complaint of some group "pushing their agenda"...I'm sure that is the case sometimes, but I don't see why that has to be the case all of the time.  Art is going to be influenced by the likes, beliefs, and personality of the artist, as well as by real life events and situations, but that doesn't mean the end goal was to sway your opinion.

[Claimh Solais]

One thing that's always bugged me about any story that involves "Death", demons, hell, ghosts, etc. is the fact that it only ever really deals with the "bad" aspects of the afterlife.  It's always about the bad things that happen when people die.  Hardly anyone ever goes up into some form of "Heaven", and even if they do, you never see or hear of a literal "god's" involvement. 

I can fully understand the reasons behind this sort of practice, but let's face it.  If ghosts exist, this confirms the existence of an afterlife of some sort.  If you can go to Hell, you can go to Heaven.  If there's a Heaven, there's a god. 

So...god's just sitting around, chillin'?  Drinkin' a Bud?  Some people might say that god works through others by giving people like the Belmonts the power they need to fight evil.  This seems like a pretty weak explanation.  Evil can have obvious physical manifestations, but good has to work through subtle machinations?

Not something that bothers me TOO much when it comes to Castlevania, but it's something that's always in the back of my mind with that sort of premise.

This could be because Castlevania is a series that deals with the darker and more chaotic aspects of the supernatural. The plots always involve some kind of chaos and endangerment to the universe as a whole. But then the endings are more peaceful. At the end of Symphony, we see Dracula passing on, and at the end of LoS1, we see all that heavenly power and whatnot of Gabriel.

Essentially, the more heavenly aspects aren't touched on as much because that's just not what the series is about. At least, that's my opinion.

That definitely makes sense, but I'd say it's more likely because nobody wants to depict god in any way, shape, or form.  Somehow you can talk about the devil and hell all you want, but god is off limits.

That's one of the things I always really appreciated about the Shin Megami Tensei series.  God and the Devil are literal beings in that universe, and they both have positive and negative traits.  Everyone else is just stuck in the middle of their dick measuring contest.

This is actually quite like Soul Calibur and Soul Edge in the Soul series. They are both perceived at the surface like how most people perceive (at the surface) God and the devil. Calibur is righteous and pure, and seeks only to vanquish evil, and Edge is a destructive force that seeks only to cover the world in disorder.

But then Soul Calibur IV shows off more about it, like with the fact that Calibur is the sort of lawful good, I guess. Where it will retain the peace and order of the world, even if that involves doing something that is morally unjust. And that there actually characters (Cassandra in particular) who feels the world would be better off without either sword.

[Dracula9]

^Mina also tells Soma about that legend in AoS. Amaterasu, the sun goddess, hides from Susanoo in a cave. As a result, the world becomes dark, which subdues Susanoo's anger. Because of that, the power of an eclipse is said to seal away evil intentions, according to Mina. Hence, the Habuka family's magic has "the power to control even gods".

I'd totally forgotten that legend.

Dracula for Storm God 2035.

[Lelygax]

You visit a old Dracula's Castle on Bloodlines, so why nobody here seems to remember about this?

Without a owner, Castlevania remains the same, we can see it in CV2 too.

[theplottwist]

You visit a old Dracula's Castle on Bloodlines, so why nobody here seems to remember about this?

Without a owner, Castlevania remains the same, we can see it in CV2 too.

That's... Not entirelly reliable...

You see, we know that Dracula's Castle appears when Dracula is about to come back. We also know that it can be summoned right before Dracula is back. This seems to be the case in Bloodlines. The castle seems to be in awfully good shape with no Dracula there, but we know that Elizabeth Bathory and Drolta are pursuing Dracula's ressurrection. It being there may have been Elizabeth's doing.

And in CVII, it's in total disrepair. There is nothing above ground level, only subterranean catacombs. When the castle collapses, I find it plausible for it to look just like it does in CV2.