Topic: AoS plothole

[X]

LOL! Super Waffle makes a good point. I wasn't fond of his fluffy neck-rimmed coat either, lol.

[zangetsu468]

Because Dracula's Castle was sealed inside of the Solar eclipse, one assumes it was like being in cryostasis. It wasn't in the physical realm anymore and only materialised when the eclipse was back.

Or it did crumble in the eclipse, and then materialised when the eclipse was back.

One assumes that the manifestation of the Castle has to do with its dark lord, if there was no Dark Lord for a time then who knows what may have happened to the Castle between then. Perhaps the Castle crumbling was a form of the cycle perpetuating itself which meant Dracula would revive.

Since Julius is aware that he sealed the VK in the Castle to weaken it, one would assume the ^former^ is correct and the castle didn't crumble, he knew exactly where it was to go looking for it. Which if we assume to be correct, I would assume it has something to do with the Dark Lord's final destruction and also partly to do with the ritual that the Hakuba family used in order to seal the Castle. If it was truly bound and sealed inside the eclipse (perhaps to trap the evil/ its connection to the underworld) then I don't personally see why it couldn't just be 'frozen' in there.

Another way to look at it is that the Castle was awaiting its new master.

[Akumajou Jason XX]

How about the concept of "sealing" anything inside of an eclipse?  An eclipse isn't a physical entity.  It's the result of sun or the moon being directly in front of one another.  There is nothing to seal anything in.  It's like saying he sealed the castle in 12 midnight.  Midnight is not a physical thing, it's just a concept people use to keep track of time.

Let's say that typical JP "doesn't matter if it makes sense so long as it looks / sounds cool" logic applies here.  Why on earth would Julius even need to seal the castle away?  How was 1999 any different from the zillions of times the Belmonts and others have killed Dracula?  Even if there was some huge disaster that required him to break the cycle of rebirth, why would the Vampire Killer be capable of sealing the castle away in the first place?  It has the soul of a thousand year old dead woman in it.  Maybe it holds a grudge against vampires (and Mathias, in particular), but that doesn't really equate to "moon / sun shadow sealing".

This is the main problem I have with JP design.  They always come up with ideas without trying to rationalize them.  It's lead to some amazing things, but there have been a ton of really inane ideas, as well.

[Nagumo]

I always love abstracts concepts like that, I think because mythology is also full of similar things. It kind of challenges your imagination and I like that. You probably intented it as a mocking example, but sealing Dracula's castle in midnight sounds pretty cool to me, too.

[theplottwist]

How about the concept of "sealing" anything inside of an eclipse?  An eclipse isn't a physical entity.  It's the result of sun or the moon being directly in front of one another.  There is nothing to seal anything in.  It's like saying he sealed the castle in 12 midnight.  Midnight is not a physical thing, it's just a concept people use to keep track of time.

I always asked myself this too! But ya see, I do think that the ecclipse would be worked to be "opened a portal into" concept of some sort if a game were to be made. Like Nagumo mentioned, I like the abstract nature of this idea.

Let's say that typical JP "doesn't matter if it makes sense so long as it looks / sounds cool" logic applies here.  Why on earth would Julius even need to seal the castle away?  How was 1999 any different from the zillions of times the Belmonts and others have killed Dracula?  Even if there was some huge disaster that required him to break the cycle of rebirth, why would the Vampire Killer be capable of sealing the castle away in the first place?  It has the soul of a thousand year old dead woman in it.  Maybe it holds a grudge against vampires (and Mathias, in particular), but that doesn't really equate to "moon / sun shadow sealing".

This is the main problem I have with JP design.  They always come up with ideas without trying to rationalize them.  It's lead to some amazing things, but there have been a ton of really inane ideas, as well.

Giant wall of text containing a good amount of wild mass guessing with some true Castlevania facts, trying to explain the eclipse + castle connection, and why is Julius needed there. You've been warned.

(click to show/hide)

Well about "why the need to seal the castle" is explained already. Either you separate Dracula from the castle, or he'll keep coming back.
Somehow it's deduced that the only way for Dracula to stop ressurrecting is by separating him from the castle through a ritual in which the Hakuba priest must take part, and I bet my ass that this is using a variation of Brauner's technique used in PoR, learned by Charlotte.

The fact that this was done with an ecclipse is relevant, I guess. The eclipse carries a lot of symbolism. The moon (the night, where Dracula basks) is prevailing over the sun (the night's enemy). Dracula apparently comes back with full power in 1999 just as the ecclipse is up, thus I believe that the two events are connected: The eclipse grants Dracula his full power, by blocking the sun. They get connected in a "good way" (good way for Dracula, that is).

We also know that the true Dracula's Castle exists in a spiritual plane (Graham said that), and is materialized when Dracula is about to come back.

Thus I believe that since the eclipse and the castle/Dracula had a connection, they found it that it would be possible to make the castle go away with the eclipse when it finished (and hence why it comes back on the next eclipse in japan. It went away with an eclipse, and got back with another). And that's it to explain how 1999 is different. The eclipse was there when Dracula ressurrected. It never happened before.

However, this time, the forces of good could research a way to banish Dracula. I mean, I don't think the Belmonts would want to be fighting him forever and that'd be why there are third parties researching a way to end Dracula forever, and this might just be the perfect moment. Again, I turn to PoR... Charlotte saw that Brauner was able to seal Dracula away with his paintings. She was even inside his paintings with Jonathan, and was able to "feel" it's power and how it works. I strongly believe that she studied Brauner's technique and brought the results to the Church to use in 1999. Maybe the Hakuba priest was the only one who could do a certain specific thing that no one else could, and that would explain why the Church called him to help.

Apparently, too, the castle could only be sealed AFTER Dracula was defeated. I think this because if this were not the case, Julius wouldn't be needed, and much less the Vampire Killer. And here is where the Vampire Killer is needed. I remember someone here said that IGA implied in one of his interviews that Julius indeed did something different to defeat Dracula than simply kicking his ass. This "something different" may be using the whip to cut Dracula's soul access to the castle momentarily upon his defeat, enough for the Hakuba priest to finish the ritual that separated the Castle and Dracula's soul once and for all, and sealed it into the eclipse, however I have another idea...

The Hakuba priest's ritual was towards the CASTLE, not Dracula, thus why Julius is needed with the whip. He has to defeat Dracula first to clear the way for the ritual to affect the Castle without Dracula as an obstacle.

And here comes the "another idea". Maybe the ritual was made into the Vampire Killer itself, and needed Julius to physically apply the ritual in the throne room. Death does mention that a "throne" is needed to bring Dracula back, in PoR, and that Brauner was cutting it off from the castle. If that's the case, only a Belmont can enter the castle and get to the throne, where the ritual can be applied, but only after the Dracula is defeated. That would also explain why the whip was left inside the castle: So that it could serve as the connection between the eclipse and the castle (in a bad way for Dracula), and when the eclipse went away, so did the castle, thanks to the whip being there, literally connecting both.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Read the big wall of text.  Interesting.
One thing to note is, if the ritual is done as soon as Dracula is defeated, then I believe it would've gone like this:

Jullius (over wireless device): I did it!  Dracula is defeated!  The castle is beginning to crumble.  I have to run to where I think the source of his power is.
Mina's Family: "Run! You only have a few minutes before the castle starts to crumble away.  We need the castle somewhat intact!
Julius: Roger!  I'm taking the whip to where I  feel the power is at its strongest.
Alucard: I and the Belnades's will use our powers to teleport you to safety before the spell is complete.  DO NOT GET STUCK IN THE CASTLE!
Julius: Agreed, Over & Out!

Julius goes to the spot in the Floating Garden, where the rift to the Chaos Realm is located.  He places the whip on the doorway.  A giant blast of power unexpectedly blasts Julius clear across the room, across the pillared walkway, and out to the Floating Garden.  Alucard and the Belnades see this and take it as a sign that the deed is done, and together, cast a spell to teleport Julius away just in the nick of time, as the Castle gets sealed in the perpetual penumbra of the eclipse.

As Julius awakens, it turns out the blast of power, combined with the concussion at the end of the blast, have scattered his senses a bit, and he can no longer remember what just happened.  He can only 'feel' the powers, as this was an innate ability his clan has.

This is the reason why, in 2035, when Soma and Mina get teleported to the Castle, possibly through some coincidence in power lines, or whatever, the Castle is in a constant state of disrepair.  The Castle Corridor is Ruined, and other locations are even more broken than usual; the Castle was on its way to crumble and ruin when the events of 1999 took place.

[X]

This is the reason why, in 2035, when Soma and Mina get teleported to the Castle, possibly through some coincidence in power lines, or whatever, the Castle is in a constant state of disrepair.  The Castle Corridor is Ruined, and other locations are even more broken than usual; the Castle was on its way to crumble and ruin when the events of 1999 took place.

And Julius added to the damage later on when he executed his Grand Cross attack. That big wall of text was interesting to read. Liked the story bit Jorge. Yeah, everything would have to run like clockwork in order to seal up Castlevania and for Julius not to get trapped in there was well.

[Akumajou Jason XX]

Very interesting replies, guys!  Truth be told, the backstory for Aria always felt to me like one of the most contrived parts of the entire Castlevania mythos.  This helps it make a lot more sense, though.  Granted, I 100% believe that Konami and IGA never truly thought any of this through to these levels, but so long as they never contradict your theory, I can live with it.

[BLOOD MONKEY]

Found an even bigger plothole: Death shouldn't exist. Why? Because: At the end of PoR, Dracula absorbed and destroyed Death. Therefore, Death shouldn't exist.

[Inccubus]

Technically an eclipse is a physically definable thing.
The fact that it is a transient effect is what makes it a good place to seal something.
Besides, you can't evaluate magic by the laws of physics since by it's very nature and definition magic is beyond our understanding of physics.
In other words, it isn't supposed to make sense.

[Akumajou Jason XX]

The sun or moon moving directly in front of one another is a physical thing, but an eclipse itself is a concept and not a physical thing.  Also, magic has rules just like anything else, they're just different from standard natural rules.

There are people out there who can just kind of hand-wave stuff that doesn't add up, but I've always been a stickler for details when it comes to stories.  More power to the people who don't let that sort of thing bug them, though.

[Shiroi Koumori]

Found an even bigger plothole: Death shouldn't exist. Why? Because: At the end of PoR, Dracula absorbed and destroyed Death. Therefore, Death shouldn't exist.

I think the absorption of Death was just temporary and they separated again after Drac was defeated. Death can reappear anytime he wishes.

[Inccubus]

The sun or moon moving directly in front of one another is a physical thing, but an eclipse itself is a concept and not a physical thing.  Also, magic has rules just like anything else, they're just different from standard natural rules.

There are people out there who can just kind of hand-wave stuff that doesn't add up, but I've always been a stickler for details when it comes to stories.  More power to the people who don't let that sort of thing bug them, though.

The sun being blocked out by the sun and casting a shadow on the surface of Earth is a physical thing with defined dimensions that change over the time of it's duration.
That is an eclipse (noun) which is not a concept.
You can become so much better at something than another person to the point that they are ignored and no longer "seen" in this matter.
That is an eclipse (verb) which is a concept.
The part you can't wrap your head around, I'm guessing, is sealing a physical entity inside what amounts to a massive shadow.
Now magically sealing something inside a shadow that's a concept that would make any physicist's head implode. ; )

Think of it like this, do you know the technical details and physics of how quantum entanglement works.
Neither did Einstein who called it "spooky action at a distance".
In fact, Einstein and his colleagues though that the effect should be impossible, but it has been verified that the effects of quantum entanglement are real.
So for all intents and purposes it might as well be magic since it currently goes against our understanding of physics.
In short... that shit is voodoo and you have no choice but to accept the reality of it.

So in the world of Castlevania there is a way to seal things inside an eclipse, you have no choice but to accept it because you saw it's effect in that world by way of the game you interfaced that world with. :3

But if you still need to rationalize it in physics terms, then think of it like this:
Somehow the area of the shadow caused by the moon eclipsing the sun was turned into an event horizon for a wormhole connecting Earth to somewhere far away and the castle and the entire cliff it was sitting on were transported through this wormhole. : ()

Either way it's not a plot hole. ^V^

[Belmontoya]

Plot holes in the Igaverse of CV? No way... 

[DragonSlayr81]

I think the absorption of Death was just temporary and they separated again after Drac was defeated. Death can reappear anytime he wishes.

I think it's similar to the fusion techniques in DBZ. They can merge to become one powerful enemy, but still are individuals.

Regarding the eclipse thing, I think it's a part of mysticism. Some lore and mysticism tell of certain gates to "other worlds" that can only be open via certain means, like astological alignment or time of the year where our world passes through the certain spot in space where these portals exist. Some think even the coming of the night acts as the means to unveil these "holes"/"gates" and allow spirits to enter our world. I know some places in the Southwest(namely Arizona and New Mexico) where the Native Americans believed of certain spots where the dead/spirits could enter the world and are highly active at night(both attacking people and causing mischief). Celtic people believed in "thin places", areas of the world where the realm of the living overlaps with the realm of the spirits and those of the spirit realm can cross over(places that are "haunted" or cursed, as well as places of great magical potency). I mean, given the time of year we're in, Samhain and Dia de los Muertos all revolved around a superstitious belief that it was a certain time in the year where the dead could return to the world of the living(for a limited time only). Interestingly enough, bringing up Halloween(the movie series), one of John Carpenter's early reasons for Michael Myers going on a killing spree was that he felt Michael was ultra-sensitive to in influx of spirits during Samhain/Halloween, and it caused him to go "dark"(basically lose himself to his inhuman persona).

I think it's a sort've similar take on multi-cultural mysticism. I don't see Dracula's Castle being sealed within the PHYSICAL eclipse more than the qualifications to open a specific portal can ONLY be met with the eclipse and that's where Dracula's Castle is sealed.