Author Topic: January 2015 Castlevania Dungeon MUSIC Contest (Read 37673 times)

BMC_War Machine · « **Reply #30 on:** January 13, 2015, 08:28:45 PM »

Quote from: Dracula9 on January 13, 2015, 06:01:56 PM

It can be that, yes. Personally I don't believe people have the right to get pissed about it if the musician states as such. I require a MIDI for basically every song I do, and I don't pretend any differently. If someone lies and tries to play it off like they did it themselves, however...that's another story.

But in the case of MIDI > chiptune, there's quite a few ways to do it, some better than others. There are instant conversion programs like GSXCC, which due to the nonexistant amount of effort required typically get slammed pretty hard. There's also opening up the MIDI in a program and replacing the MIDI channels with the chiptune sounds. From that method, there are those who export it as-is and pay no heed to console limitations, usually resulting in a shoddy conversion that gets understandably bricked. Then there's what I do, which constitutes breaking the MIDI up into the appropriate number of channels for whatever system I'm trying to emulate, load in the waveform samples, and from there add/replace/cut out parts as necessary to make sure no limits are being violated (i.e. having five channels' worth of stuff playing in a 2A03 NEs song, when there should only be four). If I'm doing an 8-bit system I then isolate the entire thing to one side and make it monaural.

In the defense of my method, I believe there's actually a degree more work required than, say, someone using a tracker, because FL Studio doesn't have the console restrictions built into it like a tracker does. But that's just my two cents.

Makes sense, thanks for the info Drac9. I can see where there would be some editing involved with dissecting a midi file and making it fit where it needs to, be it channels/chip tune etc.

Jorge D. Fuentes · « **Reply #31 on:** January 16, 2015, 05:27:32 PM »

I stopped sharing a lot of my MIDI files because people would start to behave like assholes:

Type 1:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? It's too accurate. It's obvious that you just ripped it off of a ROM with a program"
-I've been doing video game MIDI files since before those programs existed.

Type 2:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? There are programs these days which can rip the data and it'll sound the same as what you did. Why even bother?"
-This is true for GBA, DS, 3DS (I think?), and PSX (I think?), where NOW there are programs that can rip the data and it'll actually be somewhat usable. But this wasn't always the case.

"Hey, can I have your MIDI file? I really like MIDI files and I need it for... reasons. Can I have it?" "Sure, it's here **shares link** or here **shares vgmusic.com URL if the file is older**
**somewhat later, while I'm watching something like a game's Facebook feed or something**
"HEY GUYS CHECK OUT MY AWESOME GAME REMIX"
**listens**
It appears to just be my MIDI file, passed through a sampler or a DAC.

Worst offenders:
"Check out my Retro Remix" = Just my MIDI run through GX-SCC
"Check out my Super Remix" = Just my MIDI run through a sampler, and used in FL Studio (maybe?), usually with a backbeat added to it.
"Check out my Orchestral Mix" = Just my MIDI run through the sampler with EWQLSO and channels muted so that it all sounds... stringy.
These are usually amateurish attempts but it irks me that they don't give even the slightest of credit (not all of them. Some do give credit and that's really nice). Others just take and take and then regurgitate it right back without a second thought.

-----------
Here's the procedure I use. It's probably easy for a musician, but hard for someone who doesn't know about note durations, beats, bars, etc.:

In the past, I used to just play an SPC (SNES Sound File) through Winamp with the SNESAMP plugin, which would allow me to isolate the channels, and would set the output to "Nullsoft Disk Writer". The result was a WAV file I could open in Sonic Foundry Sound Forge. This file usually was good enough that I could re-play the notes if I heard them enough times. Using this file, I was also able to decipher the tempo of a steady-tempo piece, by picking the four beats in a measure and running some Math. It would tell me the tempo if I had four quarter notes per beat. I would input this data into Noteworthy Composer, which is my MIDI Notation program of choice. The process would have to be repeated usually six times, as the SNES sound programmers usually would use up six channels of the SPC for music, and two for SoundFX.

Once all of the sound channels were hand-inputted into the MIDI program, by hand, I would add a repeat sign (x3) at the end, which would loop the music three times over if it was a stage theme or some other little ditty, otherwise I would just play until the song were to end. Once I have my file saved in the Noteworthy Format, I would 'export' a MIDI file.

Drawbacks:
-Since I was listening to the channel's WAV, older MIDI of mine have instrument changes in one channel. It was, at the time, the easiest way for me to work. Sadly, this also means that if someone were to take the MIDI and run it through a DAC, they would have to isolate instruments or duplicate the track however number of times an instrument was changed, and isolate the instrument so that you would hear silence for all but certain ones. I actually got E-mails from people complaining "Yo, why did you put so many instrument changes in one track? You should have one instrument per track". These people were usually trying to rip off the track or make a 'remix' of their own, but did not want to do their own work with regards to either creating their own music tracks, or creating their own instrumentation tracks by isolating properly.

-Because the method I used was fairly accurate, I was accused of 'just ripping to MIDI', for quite some time. This actually upset me enough where now I just don't share stuff. They want to get the notes? I hope they are willing to do their own work, or they can grab other people's MIDI files. I had a troll on Youtube downvote my Youtube videos. Turns out he's "A musician" and he was very vocally upset that people were +1ing or hitting Favorite on my videos, even though to him they were "just crappy MIDI conversions".

--------------

A lot of people don't realize that my notes are also set up to help pianists cope with not knowing the notes off-hand. Or people who know how to read sheet music but never developed an ear to replay parts. I can do things like this:

Clockwork from CVIII - Piano notes
Ridiculous sheet music for CVBloodlines's "Prayer of a Tragic Queen

But honestly? Probably the biggest reason I no longer share MIDI files?
I've progressed enough where a MIDI file will not provide me with all of what I would like to convey in a tune.

Sure, I still can and do create a MIDI file (someone asked me to do something with Final Fantasy III and an unused battle theme), but now I can use VSTs and VSTi's to create effects, some of which rival what Michiru Yamane has been able to do with PSX/PS2 titles, such as adding background sound effects similar to the ones in SotN's "Abandoned Pit", or adding Flanging/Wah-Wah effects to guitars, like what she did with those synth samples used in DXC's "Moon Fight", etc. You just cannot do that with the limitations of General MIDI, even with the Roland GS Sound sets. You have to do further modifications, which requires a sampler/synthesizer.

RANT OVER

BMC_War Machine · « **Reply #32 on:** January 16, 2015, 06:48:04 PM »

Quote from: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 16, 2015, 05:27:32 PM

I stopped sharing a lot of my MIDI files because people would start to behave like assholes:

Type 1:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? It's too accurate. It's obvious that you just ripped it off of a ROM with a program"
-I've been doing video game MIDI files since before those programs existed.

Type 2:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? There are programs these days which can rip the data and it'll sound the same as what you did. Why even bother?"
-This is true for GBA, DS, 3DS (I think?), and PSX (I think?), where NOW there are programs that can rip the data and it'll actually be somewhat usable. But this wasn't always the case.

"Hey, can I have your MIDI file? I really like MIDI files and I need it for... reasons. Can I have it?" "Sure, it's here **shares link** or here **shares vgmusic.com URL if the file is older**
**somewhat later, while I'm watching something like a game's Facebook feed or something**
"HEY GUYS CHECK OUT MY AWESOME GAME REMIX"
**listens**
It appears to just be my MIDI file, passed through a sampler or a DAC.

Worst offenders:
"Check out my Retro Remix" = Just my MIDI run through GX-SCC
"Check out my Super Remix" = Just my MIDI run through a sampler, and used in FL Studio (maybe?), usually with a backbeat added to it.
"Check out my Orchestral Mix" = Just my MIDI run through the sampler with EWQLSO and channels muted so that it all sounds... stringy.
These are usually amateurish attempts but it irks me that they don't give even the slightest of credit (not all of them. Some do give credit and that's really nice). Others just take and take and then regurgitate it right back without a second thought.

-----------
Here's the procedure I use. It's probably easy for a musician, but hard for someone who doesn't know about note durations, beats, bars, etc.:

In the past, I used to just play an SPC (SNES Sound File) through Winamp with the SNESAMP plugin, which would allow me to isolate the channels, and would set the output to "Nullsoft Disk Writer". The result was a WAV file I could open in Sonic Foundry Sound Forge. This file usually was good enough that I could re-play the notes if I heard them enough times. Using this file, I was also able to decipher the tempo of a steady-tempo piece, by picking the four beats in a measure and running some Math. It would tell me the tempo if I had four quarter notes per beat. I would input this data into Noteworthy Composer, which is my MIDI Notation program of choice. The process would have to be repeated usually six times, as the SNES sound programmers usually would use up six channels of the SPC for music, and two for SoundFX.

Once all of the sound channels were hand-inputted into the MIDI program, by hand, I would add a repeat sign (x3) at the end, which would loop the music three times over if it was a stage theme or some other little ditty, otherwise I would just play until the song were to end. Once I have my file saved in the Noteworthy Format, I would 'export' a MIDI file.

Drawbacks:
-Since I was listening to the channel's WAV, older MIDI of mine have instrument changes in one channel. It was, at the time, the easiest way for me to work. Sadly, this also means that if someone were to take the MIDI and run it through a DAC, they would have to isolate instruments or duplicate the track however number of times an instrument was changed, and isolate the instrument so that you would hear silence for all but certain ones. I actually got E-mails from people complaining "Yo, why did you put so many instrument changes in one track? You should have one instrument per track". These people were usually trying to rip off the track or make a 'remix' of their own, but did not want to do their own work with regards to either creating their own music tracks, or creating their own instrumentation tracks by isolating properly.

-Because the method I used was fairly accurate, I was accused of 'just ripping to MIDI', for quite some time. This actually upset me enough where now I just don't share stuff. They want to get the notes? I hope they are willing to do their own work, or they can grab other people's MIDI files. I had a troll on Youtube downvote my Youtube videos. Turns out he's "A musician" and he was very vocally upset that people were +1ing or hitting Favorite on my videos, even though to him they were "just crappy MIDI conversions".

--------------

A lot of people don't realize that my notes are also set up to help pianists cope with not knowing the notes off-hand. Or people who know how to read sheet music but never developed an ear to replay parts. I can do things like this:

Clockwork from CVIII - Piano notes
Ridiculous sheet music for CVBloodlines's "Prayer of a Tragic Queen

But honestly? Probably the biggest reason I no longer share MIDI files?
I've progressed enough where a MIDI file will not provide me with all of what I would like to convey in a tune.

Sure, I still can and do create a MIDI file (someone asked me to do something with Final Fantasy III and an unused battle theme), but now I can use VSTs and VSTi's to create effects, some of which rival what Michiru Yamane has been able to do with PSX/PS2 titles, such as adding background sound effects similar to the ones in SotN's "Abandoned Pit", or adding Flanging/Wah-Wah effects to guitars, like what she did with those synth samples used in DXC's "Moon Fight", etc. You just cannot do that with the limitations of General MIDI, even with the Roland GS Sound sets. You have to do further modifications, which requires a sampler/synthesizer.

RANT OVER

+1,000,000
Exactly. I can vouch for how big of a pain in the ass it can be for people to blatantly rip off your work. Which i know in cases like what we do on here (being CV tunes) its a double standard considering all we are doing is working with CV mixes anyways, but in my case i ALWAYS try to add a little here and there to put my stamp on it, hell, even extending tracks with original pieces that just fit the mood of the track to spice it up and make it stand out more from all the other 8 billion remixes out there of the same tune. And then when you do like Jorge mentioned and be the nice guy, you get shit on later seeing someone getting props for their "original spin" on a track that you made yourself. Im also with you on the VST's, that IMO is the way to go. Anything CV related anymore i have to have those in there. MIDI can be made to sound great, but when you pair those up with the VST's out there you can achieve just like you said dude, Yamane is very easily in reach. And there are several platforms to do it with, Roland, Sonatina, EDIROL (that's been my latest flavor, sounds more natural to me). To close it out, when you take someone's ready made track, be it midi, chip tune (converted to midi to use with those plugins) and aren't rolling up your sleeves and actually putting the notes in there, it's like being in a cover band with a drum machine playing the beats; just aint the same deal, and the majority of people will understand that and give their input accordingly.

Dracula9 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 17, 2015, 09:50:10 PM »

HEY JORGE CAN I HAVE YOUR X68000 MIDIS I CAN NEVER FIND THE RIGHT PROGRAMS TO DO IT

But yeah, as someone who basically requires a MIDI base-coat, it annoys the shit out of me when people blatantly try and take credit for something someone else wrote, or ripped. Now, when I use your stock VGMusic MIDIs, I rarely credit their composers; not out of credit-stealing or anything, but since I tend to stick to a few select composers (KingMeteor KINGMETEOR KINGMETEOR) most of the time it's no secret where they're coming from. Plus they uploaded their works as PD, so I don't personally feel full credits are as necessary (original songs/medleys or remix MIDIs, or anything that deviates from the original tune I give implicit credit on, however).

However, when I have to get them from a specific source, I'm fairly big on crediting that source (it's rare that this happens, I mostly do MIDI rips/conversions myself). Just never really occurred to me to not do it.

And I also was present during the reign of donlicht and other thieving people, so I've seen the damage and frustration it causes, and I try to avoid putting anyone through that where I can help it.

so can i have those midis or what

BMC_War Machine · « **Reply #34 on:** January 17, 2015, 11:58:26 PM »

Quote from: Dracula9 on January 17, 2015, 09:50:10 PM

so can i have those midis or what

so, what are you trying to say drac9?

?

I kid, I kid

Dracula9 · « **Reply #35 on:** January 18, 2015, 12:15:20 AM »

Just playing on an inside joke of-sorts.

I asked Jorge where he got them awhile back, and after telling me they were from a private source, told me the tools to do it. I didn't take the names down and have asked him again (like what, three or four other times?) what they were, and every time he tells me I always forget.

YAY INCOMPETENCE