Topic: What Castle is the real one?

[theplottwist]

In SotN, we're all bald from knowing that there are two castles, so no spoiler tags.

My question here for the Castlevania scholars is this: Which of both is the real Dracula's Castle?

I read somewhere that the first castle is Shaft's creation to pull-off the entire Richter gambit. I can't remember where precisely I read that, but it'd didn't exactly fly with me, because the game makes many points about THIS being the true castle, like Alucard's speech on the matter and etc.

Yet, the fact that Richter is given power over this castle, enough to summon his own demons at will, implies that this might indeed be a fake castle, as the true one wouldn't submit to anyone's wishes (much less a Belmont). More evidence to this is in the fact that Dracula's remains are in the second Castle, and all the main, staple bosses of Castlevania are fought inside the the reverse castle.

Now, both castles can't be one and the same. So, can someone explain me this, or is the "Shaft created it" thing the real deal?

NOTE: I'm aware that it's possible to fabricate a fake castle convincing enough to pass off as true, as Harmony of Dissonance did this, officially stated here. My question refers specifically to SotN.

[X]

I believe they are both the real Castlevania. When you look at it this way; The first castle is brought about by Richter thus reflecting his nature. That and it's not as dangerous as the second castle. While the inverted castle is brought about by Shaft/Dracula..? And thus reflects their nature. Kinda like it is in HoD where there are two Maxims, and one castle is more dangerous then the other due to the nature of the individuals in question.

[BLOOD MONKEY]

The castle that looks like cheese is the most real.

[SomaCruz]

Well, according to the plot of the game, Dracula's Castle rose prematurely than before. The first castle is most likely an copy of when Richter entered five years prior since one of the areas from Rondo of Blood is in Symphony of the Night.

The inverted castle is probably created by Shaft in order to resurrect Count Dracula. As a result, everything was kept the same but flipped.

In short, neither castle is real but as illusions to resurrect Dracula.

[Inccubus]

It's not a copy because Maria specifically comments to Alucard that it is different from when she was there before which leads to his explanation that the castle is a creature of chaos. Besides that if it wasn't the real castle Alucard wouldn't have risen. They are both the real castle. It isn't limited to a single form or a specific space.

[theplottwist]

It's not a copy because Maria specifically comments to Alucard that it is different from when she was there before which leads to his explanation that the castle is a creature of chaos. Besides that if it wasn't the real castle Alucard wouldn't have risen. They are both the real castle. It isn't limited to a single form or a specific space.

In fact I kinda think what you and X said makes sense, but the last part I disagree. The castle alone is not reason to wake him up, as it returned many times in the past and Alucard kept sleeping.

Isn't it due to unchecked evil going on the land (due to the lack of a Belmont)?

Plus one thing I think we should consider: The castle's ressurrection coincides with Dracula's. Dracula was not yet ressurrected by the time the castle rose up and Richter took control of it, but it does once Shaft announces that Dracula's ressurrection is near. We see that the castle's return is IMEDIATE to Dracula's in Rondo/Dracula X Chronicles. The same thing happens in Order of Ecclesia.

PoR could be a contradiction, since there is a castle but there is no Dracula. However, Brauner does say that Dracula has been separated from his power, so his ressurrection is in a constant "almost there" state, validating the castle being there.

[beingthehero]

I guess the inverted castle was the "REAL Castle" Graham mentioned in AoS, when Soma asked as to how they're in the eclipse when Dracula's castle is in Europe. So we know there's a physical castle, which is usually in ruins, and an otherworldly one. So I imagine that when SotN takes place, the real and spiritual castles had yet to truly merge.

It's all so confusing. I wouldn't put too much thought into it.

[Nagumo]

Hmm, I think the simplest explanation is that Dracula as master of the demon castle is able to summon it at will, and that's something he immediately does upon being revived because you know, we need a castle for the protagonist to run around in. It may not necessarily be an automatic progress, and although it could be assumed to be the case for the most part, you have to bent over backwards a little bit to make it work in context of SotN. So what I think is that both Dracula and his castle are able to be brought forth independently from each other, it just so happens to be usually mere moments between each event, barring exceptions like SotN and PoR. So I think both the normal and inverted castles are legitimate. I'm also just talking in context of the "IGAverse" here, who knows what pre-SotN developers had in mind for the rules.

[X]

Well, before IGA took the reigns all the games had Dracula resurrected first then Castlevania itself would follow. In CVII Dracula never got the chance to bring about Castlevania cause as soon as he was revived, Simon put him in the ground again.

[theplottwist]

Well, before IGA took the reigns all the games had Dracula resurrected first then Castlevania itself would follow. In CVII Dracula never got the chance to bring about Castlevania cause as soon as he was revived, Simon put him in the ground again.

Hmm, I think the simplest explanation is that Dracula as master of the demon castle is able to summon it at will, and that's something he immediately does upon being revived because you know, we need a castle for the protagonist to run around in. It may not necessarily be an automatic progress, and although it could be assumed to be the case for the most part, you have to bent over backwards a little bit to make it work in context of SotN. So what I think is that both Dracula and his castle are able to be brought forth independently from each other, it just so happens to be usually mere moments between each event, barring exceptions like SotN and PoR. So I think both the normal and inverted castles are legitimate. I'm also just talking in context of the "IGAverse" here, who knows what pre-SotN developers had in mind for the rules.

I think these explanations make sense, and X touched exactly on a point I'm trying to see for the castle's ressurrection and how Dracula can be brought back and destroyed even before the castle is able to return. And fits with Nagumo's "not an automatic progress."

I thought before that "summoning the demon castle" was one of Dracula's powers, but I assumed it was kinda an automatic quality as he's the Dark Lord and the castle has a mind of itself and needs to be there when the Dark Lord arrives. But now I think otherwise.

I guess the inverted castle was the "REAL Castle" Graham mentioned in AoS, when Soma asked as to how they're in the eclipse when Dracula's castle is in Europe. So we know there's a physical castle, which is usually in ruins, and an otherworldly one. So I imagine that when SotN takes place, the real and spiritual castles had yet to truly merge.

This actually makes a lot of sense too, but there are some problems, as the first castle was able to "materialize from the mist" and actually manifest many of the "true castle's" characteristics. But well, so did the castle in HoD, and it was a fake.

Yet, what you said about they merging would fit with the case of HoD, again, as the castle was a fake , but Death confirms that once both were merged, they'd become the true castle.

Thank you guys for responding to this. I was having a really hard time thinking this through, but now I see more clearly. I'm still looking for an official statement on the matter, but I think what you said actually is the nearest to an explanation to this question.

[beingthehero]

Well, before IGA took the reigns all the games had Dracula resurrected first then Castlevania itself would follow.

Not necessarily. I think you're forgetting about Bloodlines, where Castlevania has already returned yet Bartley is still carrying around his coffin. He doesn't seem to resurrect until he's in Castle Proserpina.

Also in Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge, Dracula's still alive and Castlevania doesn't appear until Christopher destroys the four elemental castles.

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

Harmony of Dissonance could shed some light on the devs' thinking about this subject since the castle there having two layers may have been justified as a similar phenomenon as what occurred in SotN. Maxim and Richter play similar roles.

[X]

Not necessarily. I think you're forgetting about Bloodlines, where Castlevania has already returned yet Bartley is still carrying around his coffin. He doesn't seem to resurrect until he's in Castle Proserpina.

No, I didn't forget and it was on my mind when I wrote my last post. Note: In-game the first stage says "Ruins of Castle Dracula. Romania". Castlevania itself is still in ruins which you can clearly see while traversing the stage.

Also in Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge, Dracula's still alive and Castlevania doesn't appear until Christopher destroys the four elemental castles.

Dracula was defeated in The Adventure and his castle was destroyed. He spent the next 15 years regaining his power before he would summon back castlevania. A smart move on his part cause if he summoned back castlevania while weak Christopher would just backtrack and 86 his @$$. Dracula needed his full strength back so laying low was the better move for him. Dracula wanted to use Soleiyu's power for himself but couldn't as it was a divine power and not of darkness. The four castles were probably acting as a security measure so the Dracula could stall for time. And since Christopher destroyed the four guardians Dracula used that power to bring himself up to speed and also summon up Castlevania. This is theoretical mind you, but it works..?  Yay? Nay?

[The Puritan]

My understanding is that the 'real' castle was the second one and the first one was its reflection, its shadow, in the physical world.

[Belmont Stakes]

I am willing to bet that ruins from the actual castle were used to create and are contained within the first structure and as such it is actually just an extension of the castle as a whole. As was previously stated this castle is an incarnation of chaos so it stands to reason that both castles are actually the same just mirrors of one another. Remember vampires and mirrors go together like government and public welfare.