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Offline Crying Freeman

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Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« on: October 03, 2015, 08:29:53 AM »
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I started watching the new NBC show The Player, and it's one hell of a fun show! I go online to check out reviews, and it's slammed by everyone, and everyone who slams it states the same thing as to why it's "so bad"... Because the premise is to absurd. I won't get into the show's plot here, but it is over the top and unbelievable, but how the hell does that alone make it bad? I just never understood that mentality when it comes to anything with a crazy plot.

If it's still well written and interesting, isn't that a good thing? Just a crazy premise alone can't make something bad. I mean, we love a franchise about vampire hunters killing Dracula every hundred years. Are we supposed to call the games bad because Vampires aren't real? Of course not, for two reasons: 1.) Vampires and monsters are fantasy 2.) There's SO much more to it. And that's where my argument comes in: It's a show, it's a fantasy (unless based off of true events, and even then they'll add things in) and there's more to it besides JUST the premise, like the action and acting and execution of the show overall.

I find this happening with this generation of movie and TV goers especially. It's like nobody can enjoy something anymore for being fun and over the top (unless it's Fast and Furious but I won't get into that hypocrisy). If something isn't 100% possible in reality, people will stupidly laugh and go "That would never work in real life! HAHA!"... ITS A F*CKING MOVIE/SHOW YOU IDIOT!!!! ;D

Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2015, 09:39:47 AM »
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My biggest pet peeve these days is ridiculous over the top action scenes.

Realism isn't as important as probability for me.

I'll give a good example. Around xmas my daughter sometimes watches this movie called Polar Express. It's a completely unrealistic plot of course, but that's not what bothers me about it. It's the ridiculous over the top impossible action scenes that don't even make sense being there! The slow motion crazy all over the place camera! the close calls! ahhhhh!

This is just my own personal pet peeve I suppose. But I can't stand those type of insanely impossible action scenes in movies. Fantasy sci-fi or whatever, it's all good.. But these damn action scenes where the hero barely makes it over and over again by the skin of their teeth. It drives me insane.

Polar Express... Of all films to have that kind of crap in it! hahaha

So yeah. Fast and the Furious is pretty close to the top of my shit list. That new TMNT movie is another pile of crap that comes to mind as well. But there are way too many films these days like this for me to list them all. Before CG became easier and cheaper to use in movies, these types of scenes couldn't exist as easily.. I think films over all were a little better off before directors could so easily get carried away. There are some directors who understand better how to balance this kind of stuff, like Christopher Nolan, Ridley Scott... But then we have the Michael Bays...

I really loved Gravity too, but I have to admit it had a lot of those types of moments in it as well. I think 2 or 3 moments in a movie where the hero barely makes it or barely achieves a goal is more than enough for probability to allow.. But when it's non stop for the whole film it gets to the point where you have to say, ok, the luck has ran it's course here and this protagonist should have been dead or done an hour ago..

It makes it way too obvious that someone wrote a script where the hero makes it no matter what. It makes the viewer way too aware that they are watching a scripted, planned plotline. It's nice to be able to forget about that when you're watching a movie and just enjoy it. Good writing keeps you in the moment and takes you to another place. Bad writing makes you think of the other stuff like production and effects and the ridiculous plot as you are watching it for the first time.. Of course we all think about that stuff when it comes to movies and series' at some point.. I hope I'm not losing my point here.

Gotta say I can't wait to see the Martian though! :-)

Sorry for the rant!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 09:41:50 AM by Belmontoya »
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Offline X

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2015, 10:47:25 AM »
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I'm not sure why people are concentrating on the premise of the show rather then the writing itself. There is an awful lot of bad writing nowadays but they try to butter it up with CG action sequences. Star Trek: Into Darkness is one I can mention despite the fact that I love Trek. And even though I will see it I have no hopes whatsoever about Batman Vs Superman. There are many Michael Bays out there unfortunately. And many other writers are nothing more then wanking fanboys who didn't do their research on the characters (and don't have enough respect for the characters) to write the stories they want to tell. So very little of the good writers/directors are around anymore and this is the reason why TV/Movies are so bad. It's more about making money then telling a good story. If Hollywood (or visual media for that matter) isn't revitalized it's going down the shitter followed with a bucket of industrial solvent. But frankly I won't miss them if they go cause they can take all the stupid people with them.
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Offline Crying Freeman

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2015, 12:02:32 PM »
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The show doesn't have spectacular effects, and there's a lot of the character doing impossible actiony bits, but there's a certain level of "not TOO much in there", like it doesn't make a big deal out of what just happened, it just elts the scene speak for itself, and I love that. Winking at the camera is something I hate. It's not Micheal Bay, even with its over the top action. I understand what you mean. It's a thrilling thing to have until its done too much, or if its done so horribly (DAD windsurfing, anyone?). I hate CG too, and I'm sure we all do. It's an amazing thing when utilized correctly, but when you see CG explosions or buoldings crashing near an actor its so fake its unreal. Old school filmmaking FTW, with real stunts and real explosions (James Bond series being one of the best places for them... Until JB does use CG).

The thing I hate more with modern films is how much filler they have. My girlfriend loves the avengers so I went to see both with her and I was just sitting there thinking "when tf is this gonna end!??", especially in the first one. Movies, like games nowadays, shouldn't everstay their welcome if they aren't made to be so long.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 12:11:33 PM by Crying Freeman »

Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2015, 02:41:18 AM »
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The way I see it, one of the rules of a good story is having inside logic that makes sense. It doesn't mean it can't have fiction like flying heroes or vampires, it just requires that there would be explanations for all the things in the story that don't make sense. if too many things are left unexplained, readers or viewers would see this as bad storytelling.
When we're talking about over the top action, today's viewers see this as cheesy; unless it's meant to be cheesy, like in "Expendables".

I have a different complaint. People who give great reviews to films or series for being "edgy" or whatever.
There's this comedy called "Garth Marenghi's Darkplace". Its description is "This parody series is an unearthed 80s horror/drama, complete with poor production values, awful dialogue and hilarious violence. The series is set in a Hospital in Romford, which is situated over the gates of Hell."

And the series is exactly that - poor production values, awful dialogue and over-the-top violence. That apparently was enough for the nerds/hipsters of IMDB to give it a 8.6 rating . My only problem with it is, I don't think it's funny. When you try too hard to make a movie intentionally cheesy and ridiculous, it's not funny. It's fake. "Oh, look, this dialogue is so bad, the plot is completely fucked up, and the special effects are crap that's hilarious, isn't it? Well, no, actually it isn't. At least not to me.  And it's not like I don't like that kind of humor. Hell, I found Evil Dead 2 hilarious.
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Offline Crying Freeman

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2015, 02:48:15 PM »
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This link puts basically explains the show's premise (wish they didn't have that Max Payne 3 style text thing with EVERYTHING they say  ;D)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikm12VQNIS8

Yes, crazy, and other than that the action scenes are insane. One scene ripped straight out of Moonraker has Alex Kane jump from an out of control plane so he can catch the villain and steal his parachute. And hell, in the first episode has Kane running on a rooftop to grab a rope, then swing down and crash through the window Die Hard style, to slide on a table and knock out an assassin with a bottle, only for the assassin's target to say "That was a 1924... Did you HAVE to hit him with that?"... It's cheesey, and it knows that, but it doesn't go so over the top that it it becomes boring or un-entertaining.

It's just when I see reviews that make the plot and premise of the show as the main detractor, I think people are just being nitpicky. If it had plot holes, then yes it should be criticized, but when people criticize it solely for it's premise, it's unfair IMO.

And YES, stuff getting praise for "edginess" it REALLY starting to get old (one of the good things about this show actually, it just wants to have some fun)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 02:52:29 PM by Crying Freeman »

Offline chainsawmidget

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2015, 04:39:40 AM »
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I have no problem with over the top.  I like over the top a lot of times.  However you have to do it right. 

You can't be over the top and try to convince people you're doing some thing serious or profound.  That's one of the (many) reasons I hated the Nolan Batman movies. 

Another things is, if you're going to be over the top, you have to be over the top completely.  You can't be over the top for one scene or one moment.  Commit to it. 


Offline Sul_Yong

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2015, 05:05:07 PM »
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Heh, I never heard of "The Player." I watched the youtube vid, and it sure as hell looks interesting, but I can't say anything else about it. However, your issue is with reviewers nowadays just slamming it. I haven't read a review for anything in a long while and took it seriously. Hell, funnily enough, I think the last review I read was for the very first Lords of Shadow when it came out years ago. I won't say what it said, so not to start another flame war, but I'll just say I disagreed with it. However, I did read several other reviews that said the opposite, as well, and I agreed with those. However, I haven't read any review since then because after getting into a week-long heated argument with my best friend about said reviews, I had an epiphany. There are no neutral reviewers. People will either praise something, or say it's complete shit. There is no, "If you like this, then you'll love this," in reviews anymore, it's just "This is gold, watch it," or "This is shit, avoid it."

Hell, personally, after reading these posts before-hand, I am curious if anyone saw Mad Max: Fury Road last year. It was over-the-top, edgy, and was almost nothing but action. But, it didn't get slammed by reviews, but it also didn't sell.

Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2015, 08:33:04 PM »
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Hell, personally, after reading these posts before-hand, I am curious if anyone saw Mad Max: Fury Road last year. It was over-the-top, edgy, and was almost nothing but action. But, it didn't get slammed by reviews, but it also didn't sell.

My wife and I have been planning on renting this for like the last month! I keep getting tired and falling asleep before we watch it.. I really want to see it though. I think it looks pretty cool and different.

Last movie we saw other than the Martian that I really, really loved was Ex Machina. It was the total opposite of the type of film we're discussing here and I loved that about it.
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Offline Sul_Yong

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2015, 09:30:39 PM »
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My wife and I have been planning on renting this for like the last month! I keep getting tired and falling asleep before we watch it.. I really want to see it though. I think it looks pretty cool and different.

Last movie we saw other than the Martian that I really, really loved was Ex Machina. It was the total opposite of the type of film we're discussing here and I loved that about it.

Personally, I loved it. I took my ex-girlfriend to see it in theatres and then bought it on Blu-Ray. Then had three different movie nights where different groups of my friends came over to watch. It was only after watching for the 15th time did I get burnt out. I haven't had a movie I fell in love with like that since over ten years ago when I was a teenager.

Offline Crying Freeman

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2015, 01:10:30 PM »
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I have no problem with over the top.  I like over the top a lot of times.  However you have to do it right. 

You can't be over the top and try to convince people you're doing some thing serious or profound.  That's one of the (many) reasons I hated the Nolan Batman movies. 

Another things is, if you're going to be over the top, you have to be over the top completely.  You can't be over the top for one scene or one moment.  Commit to it.

I agree. There needs to be a good balance between the two (why TMWTGG fails as a film).

Offline Crying Freeman

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Re: Why do people hate over the top/absurd premises?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2015, 01:20:54 PM »
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There are no neutral reviewers. People will either praise something, or say it's complete shit. There is no, "If you like this, then you'll love this," in reviews anymore, it's just "This is gold, watch it," or "This is shit, avoid it."
[/quote]

After reading this, I noticed how spot on this statement is. When was the last time a major outlet gave a game a 5 or 6? It's like they operate on a 4 or below, 8 or up score system, rarely a 7. No comparisons to other entries in a franchise or genre, just  good or bad, and I think I know why: The drama.

Drama is what gets clicks on the web nowadays, and drama comes in the form of review scores, which the reviewers know. I couldn't believe Splatterhouse got a 4 on IGN when it came out. The points he made sounded like he lazily reviewed the game. Bloodstone gets a 5 just for following the trends of the 8-10/10 CoDs, which brings up the paid reviews. People complain about a game with "generic" mechanics from the game they give a high score, because the games that get tons of ads on their sites get them more money. If Ghosts got a low score, would Activision want to do ad business with them agian?

I know this started off with the Player (which got canceled  :'(), but with this argument I'm more well-versed in the game industry.

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