Topic: Akumajou Lisa?

[Nagumo]

If Lisa was married to Dracula, and since Dracula is a count, that would technically make her a countess, right? While I had that train of thought, I wondered: "What if it was the other way around?". Dracula became a count because he got married to Lisa. So what if Dracula's castle didn't originally belong to Dracula at all, but instead was owned by Lisa's family. IGA mentioned in an interview Lisa was from a holy bloodline, so taking that idea further, what if she belonged to a knight family with holy powers who used to be the local protectors of the land? Possibly she could have been the last remaining family heir, and because the family couldn't be continued through the male line, Dracula ended up inheriting the castle and the local land after he married her? I really like this theory because aside from explaining how Dracula became a count and gives a little backstory to his castle, it also explaines/lines up very nicely with the following:

• Alucard inheriting a sword that got passed down through Lisa's family.
• Why a Royal Chapel exists in Dracula's castle despite that he hates God.
• Why there is holy-aligned equipment laying around despite that being a pretty bad idea if vampire hunters come to your castle.

   

[zangetsu468]

Interesting theory. The holy bloodline element might also have had something to do with why she was helping heal people and was represented like the Virgin Mary.

I don't discount it but the Alucard Sword and shield are presumably both passed to Alucard from Lisa's family. The shield looks kind of demonic http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/castlevania/images/4/4d/Alucardgrey.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080227202634 and it looks fairly similar to the devil forgemaster's emblem(?) Unless I'm wrong and only the sword was passed from Lisa's family, the shield could've come from Dracula.

EDIT: I don't believe it's that similar to the devil forgemaster's emblem. The Alucard Shield has a cross, and what appears to be a wolf with bat wings, so I'd say it was either from Dracula or it was made to resemble Alucard/ his abilities.

What are the odds that if her bloodline was holy her father would've been a knight? The Sotn manual does say she was the only woman to love "Count Dracula" but it doesn't specify whether they were wed or not. Either way I don't think it would've been hard for Dracula to accumulate wealth over 300 some years and become a Count.

[TatteredSeraph]

If I'm remembering things correctly, the article I have in mind which talked about SotN's development mentioned they'd played round with ideas involving Lisa to have some sort of church-affiliated or angelic type blood in her, which was partially passed down to Alucard.  Depending on whether you used more relics or spells had Alucard favour one or the other of his sides, light or dark, more.

[Shiroi Koumori]

I always thought of Lisa as a Virgin Mary like character.
But considering the setting, Lisa must have been a Lady at least since she knows medicine and women at the time weren't really educated.

[Nagumo]

There's also one other thing this theory would make more plausible, IMO.

In the CoD manga there is a flashback scene which takes place a couple of years before 1476 where Isaac and some other person travel to Dracula's castle to learn Devil Forgery. In that scene, Isaac also says: "The Count is very generous towards people who turn their backs against God". It's also apperent that the castle is clearly haunted already.

Which raises a question: how would Lisa, who has been described as "being like the Virgin Mary", fit into that picture?  Assuming she actually comes from outside, why would she willingly go live in the dark, spooky castle? Would she just be OK with that? It's interesting to consider from a writing perspective how that could be handled. I think my theory would address that issue a little bit. If she lived in the castle originally, and the place doesn't get corrupted until later, it does make more sense for her to be there. Which makes me wonder if Lisa is aware Dracula is actually someone who is occupied with dark magic? Or was it like a secret he kept hidden from her? I assume she knew he was a vampire...   

[zangetsu468]

There's also one other thing this theory would make more plausible, IMO.

In the CoD manga there is a flashback scene which takes place a couple of years before 1476 where Isaac and some other person travel to Dracula's castle to learn Devil Forgery. In that scene, Isaac also says: "The Count is very generous towards people who turn their backs against God". It's also apperent that the castle is clearly haunted already.

Which raises a question: how would Lisa, who has been described as "being like the Virgin Mary", fit into that picture?  Assuming she actually comes from outside, why would she willingly go live in the dark, spooky castle? Would she just be OK with that? It's interesting to consider from a writing perspective how that could be handled. I think my theory would address that issue a little bit. If she lived in the castle originally, and the place doesn't get corrupted until later, it does make more sense for her to be there. Which makes me wonder if Lisa is aware Dracula is actually someone who is occupied with dark magic? Or was it like a secret he kept hidden from her? I assume she knew he was a vampire...   

Described as a woman who appears to be like the Virgin Mary and of Holy bloodline of some kind.

Would she be okay with it? Yes probably. If she had a strong faith in God and was like "The Virgin Mary" means she was a good person. A good person doesn't turn their back on someone they love just because their faith (or anti-faith) is different. My guess is she probably accepted him unconditionally and was the first person (since Elisabetha) to do so. Dracula probably saw something in Lisa that he didn't see in other humans. She may have been his saving grace but then... The rest is history.

I very much doubt he kept anything from her. Dracula is literally the Lord of Darkness, the Satan if you will of Castlevania's universe.

[Nagumo]

I very much doubt he kept anything from her. Dracula is literally the Lord of Darkness, the Satan if you will of Castlevania's universe.

I do wonder about this. When you think about it, if Dracula would have been completely frank about past, that would bring up several awkward moments that would be... a bit of a turn-off in a relationship (and that would be putting it lightly). If we break this down just for fun, we can list the following details Lisa would know about Dracula:

1) He is a vampire. This wouldn't necessarily be problematic assuming vampires in the Castlevania universe can survive without human blood. But if that's not the case, that would make him a potential serial killer.

2) He manipulated, lied to, and betrayed his former best friend. He also indirectly made him kill his soon-to-be wife. His motivation for this was purely selfish.

3) He later tried to have this friend killed after the latter refused to join him in eternal life.

This would be on top the fact that Dracula is also an evil wizard who uses black magic, the type of magic used for personal gain and detriment of others, and the fact that he associates himself with beings with clear malicious intent to humans.

For all I know I could be wrong and none of this matters to Lisa, but it kind of seems like a hard sell when thinking about this in  a story writing way. It almost feels a bit forced, and makes it seem like Dracula just needs another dead wife he can mourn over in order to become the villain. I suppose that is kind of the point of Lisa's character (which in itself is a bit of a tired trope), but that doesn't mean the romance between her and Dracula could be made to be understandable to the audience.  This aspect of the timeline (pre-1476) is not very well explored but it could lead to some interesting story possibilities, I think.               

[zangetsu468]

Well most of the time, one can't help who they love.
There can be things that you find out about a partner that don't sit right with you, but if you love them enough your heart may choose to still feel for them, while your mind fights another battle.

We also don't know the dynamic of their relationship, if they even lived together, how much time they spent together, how many times they made love (could've been once only), or how old Alucard was when Lisa died. (He may have only been around 5 years old if he was actually present during her Death as "Nightmare" suggests).

Very little is known about their relationship. But Lisa doesn't seem like the material type to be adorned by lavish gowns and wanting to be put up in a large Castle. She was still helping people when she was falsely convicted of being a witch.

[Shiroi Koumori]

Unconditional love is a weird thing. Maybe when Dracula loved Lisa, he laid low (on his vampiric abilities, and kept some things secret) for a while and allowed Lisa freedom to do as she pleases that's why she can help people, until she died.
And I believe reincarnation is a thing in the CV universe. Lisa=Elisabetha=Mina thing.

[zangetsu468]

Unconditional love is a weird thing. Maybe when Dracula loved Lisa, he laid low (on his vampiric abilities, and kept some things secret) for a while and allowed Lisa freedom to do as she pleases that's why she can help people, until she died.

SOTN Manual reads (under Lisa):
"Alucard's mother and Dracula's wife."
"..for some reason he has chosen not to take away her human form"

And I believe reincarnation is a thing in the CV universe. Lisa=Elisabetha=Mina thing.

I get the Elisabetha/ Lisa connection, assuming that "the only woman Dracula has ever loved" isn't retconned. i.e. the same woman's soul.
I'm not so sure about Mina but maybe her (part) prevention of Soma's descent into Dark Lord status is merited if this is the case.

[Shiroi Koumori]

I get the Elisabetha/ Lisa connection, assuming that "the only woman Dracula has ever loved" isn't retconned. i.e. the same woman's soul.
I'm not so sure about Mina but maybe her (part) prevention of Soma's descent into Dark Lord status is merited if this is the case.

Elizabetha died of sickness got to be reincarnated as Lisa, a doctor, who died due to religion, got reincarnated as Mina, a shrine maiden.

[TatteredSeraph]

Unconditional love is a weird thing. Maybe when Dracula loved Lisa, he laid low (on his vampiric abilities, and kept some things secret) for a while and allowed Lisa freedom to do as she pleases that's why she can help people, until she died.
And I believe reincarnation is a thing in the CV universe. Lisa=Elisabetha=Mina thing.

That's exactly what I figure as well.  Hotaru-hime's fanfic Forgotten explres this idea nicely.

[Shiroi Koumori]

That's exactly what I figure as well.  Hotaru-hime's fanfic Forgotten explres this idea nicely.

That was a good one. sniffles.

[zangetsu468]

Elizabetha died of sickness got to be reincarnated as Lisa, a doctor, who died due to religion, got reincarnated as Mina, a shrine maiden.

Is Lisa specified to be a Doctor? I was under the impression she prepared medicine to help cure the sick. it doesn't necessarily make her a qualified Doctor.

Actually Witchcraft has always been believed in by certain groups of people to explain certain unfortunate instances like widespread death. Often these things were caused by contagious illnesses like the bubonic plague. The belief that black magic and/or "Witchcraft" existed (which it does in CV's universe) and the mass hysteria surrounding it historically was what prompted Witch trials to begin with.

One might say this was because of the widespread Eastern European belief in Christ. However, it could also be because of evil, more specifically the corruption in the hearts of people which made them do things such as falsely accuse other humans of being Witches - or whatever was going to get them killed or burnt at the stake - with absolutely no ramifications. (?)
Sounds a lot like Chaos doesn't it. Chaos existed long before Dracula, it has always existed, yet after becoming Dracula it is the source of his power; also the source of Dracula being able to resurrect. Dracula had always cursed God since LOI, he vowed to live for eternity and curse him for eternity. (He had not, however, yet waged his war on humanity).

So isn't it curiously ironic and tragic that it was Chaos' very existence - the source of the Dark Lord's power - which prompted humanity to take Lisa's life, thereby causing Dracula to wage his war on humanity in the first place?

[TatteredSeraph]

Well, more 'wise-woman'/herbalist type.  A medicine woman, if you will.  You have to remember that around the 15th century, formal education and qualifications weren't quite as common as they are now.  A lot of things such as medicine was still taught from one person to another.  Yes, as you say, due to the church, a lot of medicine women and similar people were persecuted for witchcraft.