Topic: Where do you stand on "mistranslations?" aka Orlok vs. Olrox.

[theplottwist]

As far as I know, the word "Akuma" does not necessarily mean "the christian Devil" as in "Satan" or "Lucifer", but is more of an umbrella term for "evil spirit", under which Satan belongs too. "Akuma" seems to be non-specific.

Satan has its own name in japanese (サタン). Check this japanese wiki entry.

Also, the word used to describe Dracula is "Maou (魔王)" which means "Demon King." When translating the Satan's Ring, for instance, the translator(s) misunderstood this word as referring to THE christian Devil, and not to Dracula. This caused the item to be called "Satan's Ring" instead of "Demon King's/Dark Lord's Ring" -- which caused quite a big misunderstanding of the plot amongst my country's fanbase, because there is no "Satan" in Castlevania. Dracula is the big shot.

By what I have researched, this word is more appropriate to refer to THE Devil of christianity as it is an specific term for the highest "evil being" of a belief system. Here this is mentioned.

But I think only a true japanese speaker/native can elucidade this beyond doubt.

[Dracula9]

Well, in Japanese Akuma is most normally used to mean THE Christian Devil.

Uh, no. You'll find instances where it is used to refer to Christian Satan, but it means "demon" or a generalized "devil" far more commonly.

Also, in Christian culture dragons are often used as symbols for the Devil, so that is where that comes from.

Also no. Not even counting things like religious appropriation (i.e. Satan as a name deriving from the Islamic Iblis (known also as Shaitan), many Satan characteristics being similar to Ahriman, the horns-and-hooves appearances deriving from Baphomet, etc.), Satan being represented as a dragon is more symbolic on account of dragon=serpent=deceiver=human ego=sin, as well as dragons being representative in so many Western cultures as beings of immense power and cunning that only the most resolute of people may triumph over them (here meaning to abstain from sin as the religion calls for).

There's about a thousand and one reasons why Satan has representations as a dragon, and naming conventions within a video game series is not one of them.

[zangetsu468]

@plottwist When Akuma is translated to English, the translation obviously being "devil", I always interpreted it more like "A devil" i.e. an entity and not "THE Devil" i.e. Satan. There are numerous devils but only one Satan. The term devil just bares heavy overly heavy association in the Western world due to Christianity.

[chainsawmidget]

I'm not entirely sure Olrox is a mistranslation.  It could very well be that the translators looked and the name and thought rather than using the Orlock name, they'd take the guy and make him into his own character and using him more as a tribute than a direct reference. 

[Inccubus]

Mistranslate means translate incorrectly.
Out of context it does not necessarily tell us whether the incorrect translation is by mistake or by intention.

オルロック Orurokku (Orlok) is the original name in Japan.
You could argue that the ru and ro getting reversed might be a mistake, but the kku being ox is highly doubtful if the translator knew what they were doing.
The original would have to be Orurokkusu in order for it to hold water as purely a mistake.
So while it is definitely a mistranslation it is very likely to be at least partially intentional as they are adding sounds that did not exist in the original.
It is just as likely that they could have used Orlox, but they may have been indeed trying to make it reminiscent yet as different as possible from Orlock.

[AlexCalvo]

I would call that a mistranlation, because the original intention in Japanese was clearly that he was Orlock, and given his initial look and the pastiche horror nature of Castlevania, it's just a certainty.  I don't think a mistranslation necessarily needs to be a mistake... maybe there is a better word for what I am talking about?

[zangetsu468]

I like old rocks

[theplottwist]

I would call that a mistranlation, because the original intention in Japanese was clearly that he was Orlock, and given his initial look and the pastiche horror nature of Castlevania, it's just a certainty.  I don't think a mistranslation necessarily needs to be a mistake... maybe there is a better word for what I am talking about?

It's a mistranslation. "オルロック" is Orlock. You can check this on the japanese entry for Nosferatu on Wikipedia.

What chainsawmidget meant is that the translator got creative with the names as to create an identity for the characters instead of referencing things all the time. As in "he knew what the word meant, and changed it anyway."

The problem with this logic is that Blaustein IS fond of referencing literature -- as seen with his many references to Tolkien (some present in japanese, some not) and his localization of the creature "Evil" to "Cthulhu" due to the creature obviously looking like Cthulhu. Unfortunatelly this got mismatched, but we know where his intentions were.

"Olrox" IS most likely a mistranslation than an "attempt to give the character more personality" because Blaustein has confirmed to not being as skilled in japanese then than he is now. He was probably not aware that the character was meant to be Orlock, too, because he has told me he didn't have access to all of the character graphics and just had a brief description of them to work upon sometimes. Could also have been the case of Olrox.

[Inccubus]

As far as I know, the word "Akuma" does not necessarily mean "the christian Devil" as in "Satan" or "Lucifer", but is more of an umbrella term for "evil spirit", under which Satan belongs too. "Akuma" seems to be non-specific.

Satan has its own name in japanese (サタン). Check this japanese wiki entry.

Also, the word used to describe Dracula is "Maou (魔王)" which means "Demon King." When translating the Satan's Ring, for instance, the translator(s) misunderstood this word as referring to THE christian Devil, and not to Dracula. This caused the item to be called "Satan's Ring" instead of "Demon King's/Dark Lord's Ring" -- which caused quite a big misunderstanding of the plot amongst my country's fanbase, because there is no "Satan" in Castlevania. Dracula is the big shot.

By what I have researched, this word is more appropriate to refer to THE Devil of christianity as it is an specific term for the highest "evil being" of a belief system. Here this is mentioned.

But I think only a true japanese speaker/native can elucidade this beyond doubt.

For what it's worth, Japanese speakers and amateur translators on ROMHacking.net that I have talked to have told me that akuma is most commonly used to refer to THE Christian Devil. That said, it is not used exclusively in this way. That's why my preference is to translate "Akuma-jou Dracula" as "DEMON Castle Dracula". That and I have a distaste for the word devil in general. I blame my Christian upbringing for that as I don't even identify as Christian any more myself.

[Dracula9]

I would still say it's not worth much--that would mean Street Fighter characters have been fighting the actual Satan all this time.

I've seen it as the exception far more than I have the rule.

[zangetsu468]

I would still say it's not worth much--that would mean Street Fighter characters have been fighting the actual Satan all this time.

Oh God.. (no pun intended) Akuma is not Satan.
Gill parting the sea and resurrecting is more than enough.

I wonder though, will Akuma's presence in Tekken 7's story play a part to do with Kazuya's Devil Gene...

[Inccubus]

I would still say it's not worth much--that would mean Street Fighter characters have been fighting the actual Satan all this time.

I've seen it as the exception far more than I have the rule.

Wait, what?
Akuma is not even the character's real name.
His name is Gouki in Japan so it has absolutely no bearing on how Japanese speakers use the word.

[Dracula9]

Yeah, it's called me poking fun at the ridiculousness of "yeah a few Japanese speakers told me this, it's gotta be right."

It literally means "devil" but the word "devil" is not automatically synonymous with the Christian devil.

Period.

[TheTextGuy]

I wonder though, will Akuma's presence in Tekken 7's story play a part to do with Kazuya's Devil Gene...

Oh yeah, he's in the game.  I almost forgot.

The moment Akuma was revealed, Tekken 7 went from a "maybe" to a "okay gonna have to get this somehow."  Mainly since I'm curious as to how Akuma plays in Tekken.

[zangetsu468]

Wait, what?
Akuma is not even the character's real name.
His name is Gouki in Japan so it has absolutely no bearing on how Japanese speakers use the word.

Exactly right, he's Gouki brother of Gouken, disciple of Gotetsu.
Akuma was more appealing to the western audience.

@Textguy there's gameplay footage. He looks really interesting to play.