Topic: Ideal Castlevania movie

[VladCT]

Honestly, I would be okay if the Castlevania movie establishes its own canon as long as it doesn't end up a shallow retread of any of the existing ones and still manages to capture the spirit of Castlevania.

[Chernabogue]

For some reasons, I always picture a CV3 movie being made. I think it'd be awesome to start with a flashback of Dracula losing Lisa and casting his curse on Europe, with Alucard witnessing it. My amateur filmmaker's mind is full of ideas.

[AlexCalvo]

I liked what I read from the Ian Jeffars script...  Trevor, Alucard, Sypha, a retooled Grant, references to Leon and Mathias' history.  Lot's of cool creatures.  But sadly we'll never know what the finished product would have looked like. 

I guess if I were in charge I would want to make something that honored the continuity of the series, let's say... at least 85%.  Give them a little creative liberty breathing room.  I always thought that the origin of the Morris clan would make a good movie.  You can build the Belmont' up as a legend within the world of the movie, playing up their absence as a plot point, as OoE did.  And then boom, third act you find out the Morris guy is a Belmont descendant, play the whole lecarde ritual, and get some reaction shots of the villagers seeing the return of the Belmonts.  Just mesh the story of the first Morris whip weilder with the story of OoE and there you go, throw in a healthy portion of the 64 games' story and blamo, which is exactly what I do in my Castlevania mini-series script that I am 7 episodes into writing. #notkidding 

[zangetsu468]

LOI with a short prologue that takes place before the game's events.

[TatteredSeraph]

LOI with a short prologue that takes place before the game's events.

That could be cool, showing Mathias and Leon in the middle of the Crusades...  I'd actually want to see a full prequel movie leading up to the events of LoI.  A while ago, I read a rather good fanfic set in around this time, before Mathias succumbed to darkness.  I can see events in the Crusades where you see how effective they are, all while Mathias is practicing alchemy in secret.  In the fic (or another for that matter?), I remember Mathias holding an old family grimoire, and it had a dragon emblem on it, as a possible link as to why Mathias changed his name to Dracula.

Edit: I've found the fic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1915428/1/Castlevania-Tales-Prelude-to-the-Dark-Abyss .

[Belmontoya]

For some reasons, I always picture a CV3 movie being made. I think it'd be awesome to start with a flashback of Dracula losing Lisa and casting his curse on Europe, with Alucard witnessing it. My amateur filmmaker's mind is full of ideas.

This. If the movie turned out well it could stem into a film adaption of the NES trilogy.

I totally agree that Dracula's Curse would make the best movie.

But deep down I feel that we're better off not having a CV movie. Odds of it being worth while are just too slim.

[Dracula9]

It isn't like we've had very many good game-to-film adaptations to establish a good track record of them being made, after all.

[Claimh Solais]

It isn't like we've had very many good game-to-film adaptations to establish a good track record of them being made, after all.

We've had GOOD ones. Can't think of many that are above "good". Granted, I guess what's good or bad is really subjective, but...

I honestly thought Prince of Persia was a really good adaptation, and Assassin's Creed looks to be really shaping up quite well. The first Mortal Kombat was pretty awesome, and I actually really enjoyed the first (just the first) Resident Evil film.

Outside of that, though... Eeeeeeeh. Good point. Not much of a good track record.

[zangetsu468]

That could be cool, showing Mathias and Leon in the middle of the Crusades...  I'd actually want to see a full prequel movie leading up to the events of LoI.  A while ago, I read a rather good fanfic set in around this time, before Mathias succumbed to darkness.  I can see events in the Crusades where you see how effective they are, all while Mathias is practicing alchemy in secret.  In the fic (or another for that matter?), I remember Mathias holding an old family grimoire, and it had a dragon emblem on it, as a possible link as to why Mathias changed his name to Dracula.

Edit: I've found the fic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1915428/1/Castlevania-Tales-Prelude-to-the-Dark-Abyss .

That's cool, I'd like that.

I also see his descent much like Griffith's in Berserk which is also reflective if Lucifer's fall from grace... Something incredibly alluring and poetic about that. Somehow the most brilliant minds turn to darkness, seems to be a recurring theme.

This could also tie in with the Stoker novel where it states something to the effect of Dracula once being a man who sought certain beings beyond the mountains (Carpathians) that dabbled in the black arts. Perhaps we could know how he acquired the Crimson Stone or made it, whether it required a blood oath or a blood sacrifice etc. This could perhaps also clear up whether it indirectly caused Elisabetha's death or if her death was a coincidence and it pushed Mathias over the edge..

Maybe the logical sequence is that Mathias is already practicing alchemy, Elisabetha dies pushing him over the edge, after the crusades he learns of her demise and tries to create the philosopher's stone (edit: maybe he did this because he learned it granted eternal life and he wanted to bring her back). Failing to do so being unable to reach the final stage he inadvertently creates the crimson stone which requires his own blood and thus he's bound to the existence/ title of The Lord of the Vampires. LOI ensues.

[AlexCalvo]

That is basically the idea I go with in a Mathias pre-LoI fanfic I am writing, which I am already 28 pages into.  I took it down more of a Lovecraftian/Occult road so that I can eventually make it into something original.  But it is all about how what Mathias is doing is the actual reason he loses everything.  He blames god because he cant face the truth, that it's his fault.  This and his quest for knowledge and power leads him down the road of what I like to describe as the demonic/alchemist Walter White.

[zangetsu468]

That is basically the idea I go with in a Mathias pre-LoI fanfic I am writing, which I am already 28 pages into.  I took it down more of a Lovecraftian/Occult road so that I can eventually make it into something original.  But it is all about how what Mathias is doing is the actual reason he loses everything.  He blames god because he cant face the truth, that it's his fault.  This and his quest for knowledge and power leads him down the road of what I like to describe as the demonic/alchemist Walter White.

So in your fanfic is it his dabbling in alchemy and the dark arts that cause Elisabetha to die or be sacrificed?

[AlexCalvo]

Yes. Basically he is using some kind of dark, occultish magic to help his company. For a while the give and take nature of this kind of magic is handled by the scores ofndead enemies. I.E. you get enhanced on the battlefield, we take your fallen enemies as sacrifices. But as power seeking people often do, Mathias steps over the line, and a higher, more personal sacrifice is required.  Elisabetha falls ill for this reason, but Mathias refuses to accept it. He's kind of justified to himself that if he is fighting for God, whatever he does is justified. End justify the means and what have you.

[zangetsu468]

Yes. Basically he is using some kind of dark, occultish magic to help his company. For a while the give and take nature of this kind of magic is handled by the scores ofndead enemies. I.E. you get enhanced on the battlefield, we take your fallen enemies as sacrifices. But as power seeking people often do, Mathias steps over the line, and a higher, more personal sacrifice is required.  Elisabetha falls ill for this reason, but Mathias refuses to accept it. He's kind of justified to himself that if he is fighting for God, whatever he does is justified. End justify the means and what have you.

I can see Mathias using Alchemy as a means which he rationalises as provided "by God" to win God's War during The Crusades.
At a base level he uses it to give his soldiers a boost or advantage (be it physical, out of the enemy's field of vision by cloaking etc). At a secondary level the tables turn more in his favour but the blood sacrifice of the enemy's on the battlefield are required. The third level would be the blood sacrifice of fallen enemies as well as those of his own soldiers who fall. The final stage is the oath - bound by the Alchemist's own blood -  where you sacrifice your own humanity and hence what connects you to God. The catch is that a detail is omitted that you must shed that very humanity (by the loss of a something (i.e. someone) who you hold dearest to your [Human] Heart). Once the blood oath is made it's too late to be reversed even though the terms were not clearly stipulated and Mathias may have believed he would simply be losing the part of himself that feels emotions like love, empathy, and so forth. Not fully realising the terms and believing the last battle couldn't be won he thought of everything and everyone he'd lose if he didn't turn to Dark magic. He thought of Elisabetha and of their lives and futures together, all of which would be nought if they lost their battle. So he took the oath and underwent the ritual. (This embodies a darker version of the 4 stages of Alchemy.)

Mathias tactician mind of doing God's bidding and being merciless to those who oppose God had taken any means necessary when he had known certain battles were heavily not in his army's favour. He sacrifices his own humanity so that he and his army/ people can win God's battle and serve God. He could have believed that God would protect him and his loved ones regardless of the means he sought to ensure the success of God's children. Since he sacrificed everything for God and gave the biggest sacrifice of all (himself; his humanity) he feels abandoned by God and blames him for letting Elisabetha die, not realising or refusing to see that her sudden illness was nobody else's fault but his, that all along he himself was in fact responsible for her death. The sacrifice of his own humanity could be rationalised as him believing it was an offering to God, much like the way Kain believed slaying Abel would be an offering to God.

After what he believes was his sacrifice to God meant nothing due to Elisabetha's death, he attempts to create the Philosopher's Stone - which he is already part way through - in an attempt to revive Elisabetha. He the genius, fails, however, and blames God for the outcome. Since in the process he creates the Crimson Stone with the aide of the aforementioned blood oath ritual, he vows to live for eternity cursing God. Only later this War eventually includes humanity when Lisa is burned at the stake for accusation of witchcraft.

[Dracula9]

>reads last few posts
>see alchemy being assigned absolute morality
>see alchemy being confused with black magic
>see alchemy being turned into something that's not alchemy at all
>see alchemy being applied as an umbrella term because it sounds cool or whatever



Like I know CV's already got a slightly off-center concept of alchemy and how it works thematically and symbolically, but this is ridiculous. There's no "dark" version of alchemy because alchemy is inherently neutral; how it is used and why assigns morality and only then to the specific instances--the alchemy itself doesn't care one way or the other, its practitioners are the ones with the moral attachment. It's nice to see that there's some actual understanding of the alchemic process and consideration for the steps of the Magnum Opus, but even that's more surface-level understanding than anything.

If you want a better look at a theory to incorporate the Magnum Opus into Castlevania, look no further than Mathias' collarbone--the Crimson Stone IS the Philosopher's Stone, born from the Prima Materia that is Chaos and providing eternal life through vampirism.

What I'm seeing here isn't much more than something loosely inspired by Fullmetal Alchemist's equivalent exchange principle, which while effective and well-researched thematically into real-world alchemic philosophy, isn't a strong enough concept on its own to just run with.

"You want more power, shed your humanity?" That's not really how equivalent exchange would work, and in this context it would only really make sense if there was a presiding force or entity over the exchange which had a bias as far as what counted as "equal," if the power being described here can be bought simply by relinquishing a mortal lifetime. That kind of exchange assumes an exchange of the human soul, which only has the necessary inherent value if some morally-committed entity or force controls the exchange--right, like God. And if a morally-biased force presides over the exchange, and by extension/inference all of alchemy, then all of alchemy is morally-charged, and if alchemy is morally-charged, then it's not alchemy and citing real-world philosophies and principles and steps and processes is folly.

Alchemy thematically is about understanding the universe, existence, and one's place within it at large and vice-versa, with attachments to the divine being present or absent depending on which sect or school of alchemic teaching one looks at. It's not "good" or "evil" or "light" or "dark." It just is. Creatures of morality such as humans determine their own usage's morality on their own terms--alchemy as a process doesn't really give a shit one way or the other.

This isn't really alchemy. It's black magic and occultism being worded as alchemy purely for the sake of semantics.

Remove the moral veil from the overarching process and you begin to have something which can be called alchemy. With an assigned morality one way or the other, it ceases being the potential that is alchemy and becomes a singular force for the given moral preference.

[TatteredSeraph]

Sorry guys, but I'm with D9 on this.