Topic: So what exactly is the in-game logic behind unlocking Aria's true ending?

[Nagumo]

Providing you absorb a vampire's soul.

I always thought this was a weird rule. Couldn't IGA have taken the opportunity to connect Lament and Aria's stories and say Mathias used the same soul stealing powers that Soma has to absorb Walter's soul. Plotwise, why is the stone even neccessary? It almost feels like Dracula's powers operate under different rules depending on the game. 

[zangetsu468]

I always thought this was a weird rule. Couldn't IGA have taken the opportunity to connect Lament and Aria's stories and say Mathias used the same soul stealing powers that Soma has to absorb Walter's soul. Plotwise, why is the stone even neccessary? It almost feels like Dracula's powers operate under different rules depending on the game.

They kind of do I suppose. The Crimson stone itself has ties with Alchemy, as an "object" it's arbitrary, as a plot device it's necessary because Dracula was once human. I would believe IGA didn't want Mathias being turned, because it would weaken him as a character and he'd be a lesser form of vampire from the being that turned him. With the act of absorbing the soul of a powerful vampire without having to become one prior to doing so, it solidifies his place as a mastermind in battle as a game of strategy. He manipulates everyone in the end, well, almost.

I also believe the whole scenario with Sara being turned is indicative of a weaker or lesser vampire. She can't enter Rinaldo's shack (due to the barrier) because she's tainted. Where as Rinaldo specifically states that Walter allows him to be there to help the humans that go after him. Walter, as a higher form of vampire could go into Rinaldo's shack and kill him at any time, he just chooses not to. Walter would be impervious to most attacks, even holy elements, which is evident by other hunters leaving behind weapons such as crosses and holy water.

The fact that Mathias can overthrow the strongest vampire without himself being supernaturally gifted (without the Crimson Stone) states a lot about his character. I don't understand how the soul steal technique would work as a human without some kind of occult , magical or alchemical intervention. If he simply had it, I'm not sure if buy that either as it would mean he should've absorbed Walter's soul before all the events of the game. While my impression initially was Mathias (throughout the events of LOI) could indeed still be crafting or completing the CS, which may also explain why he doesn't absorbs Joachim's soul - should one choose to view it this way.

I always believed that Dracula's "soul steal" may have come from mastering the Crimson Stone over X amount of centuries. In POR we see him actually stealing Death's soul.

[Holy Diver]

I don't understand how the soul steal technique would work as a human without some kind of occult , magical or alchemical intervention. If he simply had it, I'm not sure if buy that either as it would mean he should've absorbed Walter's soul before all the events of the game. While my impression initially was Mathias (throughout the events of LOI) could indeed still be crafting or completing the CS, which may also explain why he doesn't absorbs Joachim's soul - should one choose to view it this way.

I always believed that Dracula's "soul steal" may have come from mastering the Crimson Stone over X amount of centuries. In POR we see him actually stealing Death's soul.

Don't know if it's true, but I've just noticed this bit on the same page:

As it turned out, Mathias was in the midst of re-creating the gem. He then had Death absorb Walter's soul...

That would explain soul steal.
Now, about the whole "why didn't he take his soul before the game thing", I'm assuming that it's like pokemon(you have to damage it before capturing it).
Although, I'm unsure why he couldn't use Death to beat the crap out of Ronhill.
Probably because Death isn't strong enough and Mathias "knew without a doubt Leon could acomplish it".

[zangetsu468]

Don't know if it's true, but I've just noticed this bit on the same page:That would explain soul steal.
Now, about the whole "why didn't he take his soul before the game thing", I'm assuming that it's like pokemon(you have to damage it before capturing it).
Although, I'm unsure why he couldn't use Death to beat the crap out of Ronhill.
Probably because Death isn't strong enough and Mathias "knew without a doubt Leon could acomplish it".

Yes. Mathias did use Leon, what I'm saying is being in the midst of completing the stone explains why he didn't and couldn't absorb Joachim's soul.

I do believe Walter would've had to have been significantly injured for this to happen, he has to be vulnerable. Once Leon had shattered the Ebony stone with Walter's defeat, stealing his soul was basically guaranteed.

[Holy Diver]

Yes. Mathias did use Leon, what I'm saying is being in the midst of completing the stone explains why he didn't and couldn't absorb Joachim's soul.

I do believe Walter would've had to have been significantly injured for this to happen, he has to be vulnerable. Once Leon had shattered the Ebony stone with Walter's defeat, stealing his soul was basically guaranteed.

Oh, sorry. Just reread it and saw what you meant.
I basically agree with most of what you said.
Still, it virtually doesn't matter if he was completing the CS before or during the game.
Cause he couldn't do it without Leon anyways.
But, nevermind that, we are too far off topic as is.

[Nagumo]

Moving on to Harmony of Dissonance. Why does the ending change depending on in which castle you fight Maxim? Why are Maxim and Lydie in two places at the same time? 

[zangetsu468]

Moving on to Harmony of Dissonance. Why does the ending change depending on in which castle you fight Maxim? Why are Maxim and Lydie in two places at the same time?

The Maxim's are two different entities, one is the false Maxim.

Why, because the game is based on outcomes..
How can Maria in Sotn be in about 3 places at the same time.. How come Child Link can fight Majora when the canon dictates it's always Fierce Deity Link, why did the maiden not tell Simon about Dracula's Nail.. #gamelogistics

[theplottwist]

Moving on to Harmony of Dissonance. Why does the ending change depending on in which castle you fight Maxim? Why are Maxim and Lydie in two places at the same time?

Maxim is on the castle in the real world. Evil Maxim is on the bizarro castle.

Evil Maxim is trying to overcome Maxim so he can manifest in the real world. If Evil Maxim is killed before it separates from Maxim, he dies. If you manage to free Maxim from Evil Maxim, he lives.

Lydie can be taken to bizarro castle via portals, just like Death and Juste himself. So this technically isn't a problem in the logic.

[Nagumo]

Maxim is on the castle in the real world. Evil Maxim is on the bizarro castle.

Evil Maxim is trying to overcome Maxim so he can manifest in the real world. If Evil Maxim is killed before it separates from Maxim, he dies. If you manage to free Maxim from Evil Maxim, he lives.

Lydie can be taken to bizarro castle via portals, just like Death and Juste himself. So this technically isn't a problem in the logic.

I might not have phrased my questions very well, sorry about that. I was wondering why Evil Maxim seperates from Maxim in castle B but not in castle A. I know that this happens because Maxim notices Juste wearing the bracelet he gave him, thus giving him the strength to overcome Evil Maxim. However,  this outcome is impossible to achieve while fighting Maxim in castle A. I was wondering if there was a particular story reason for this.
Regarding my second question, I was wondering if there is a story reason for why Evil Maxim takes Lydie to the center of either castle A or B. In the game this is soley determined by the player's decision, but I don't think there's an event in the story that impacts Evil Maxim's decision about which castle he takes Lydie to. It's a minor thing but I think it's odd.         

[Dracula9]

isn't castle B the castle "made by maxim's mind/will" or whatever?

if i'm recalling right, that might be it--the mind-castle would be more reactive to maxim's emotive state

[X]

If I recall correctly both castle were a creation of Maxim's will coupled with Dracula's remains. However having Dracula's remains also gave rise to a separate spirit. Thus two castle were born; one of the original Maxim and the other to house the other spirit. Death explained it better in-game 

[Nagumo]

isn't castle B the castle "made by maxim's mind/will" or whatever?

if i'm recalling right, that might be it--the mind-castle would be more reactive to maxim's emotive state

The strange thing is that Maxim is only able to overcome Evil Maxim in castle B (the castle associated with Evil Maxim) and not the castle that is associated with himself. You would expect it to be the reverse.

[Shiroi Koumori]

The strange thing is that Maxim is only able to overcome Evil Maxim in castle B (the castle associated with Evil Maxim) and not the castle that is associated with himself. You would expect it to be the reverse.

Maybe this is like a symbolic fight where you overcome your greatest fear/evil at its root.

[zangetsu468]

The strange thing is that Maxim is only able to overcome Evil Maxim in castle B (the castle associated with Evil Maxim) and not the castle that is associated with himself. You would expect it to be the reverse.

The thing is there is a sequence of events with with HoD which plays out between the 2 castles. Where as with Sotn it was linear, Normal Castle>Inverted Castle.

HoD is more complex, Death mentioned the two castles were supposed to eventually merge and  they were 2 "layers" or planes of the same castle. Lydia's sacrifice - which never ended up happening in game - was supposed to resurrect Dracula. It's my contention that at this instance (which occurs in the throneroom) the castle becomes "Castlevania" rather than 'formerly Castle Maxim' and this point there is no turning back for Maxim, as the influence of the remains consumes him once the sacrifice occurs. (The notion of the castle potentially becoming CV was touched upon by IGA in an interview from memory).

Dracula's resurrection never happens so the Castles remain unmerged. The next part is more technical; Maxim(A) in Castle A is the original component of Maxim, Maxim(B) in Castle B is the 'influenced' (by the remains; morally weak, evil, etc) component of Maxim. If you fight the original component only, you'd kill the whole Maxim(A) and Maxim(B) also ceases to exist. As opposed to killing Maxim(B) where you fight the 'influenced' portion of Maxim... (However you can still kill Maxim(B) in his entirety unless Lydie's bracelet is worn.)

If what Death says holds water, what happens in one layer effects the other layer, which is what I've explained above. If Maxim(A) dies, his will and both Castles go with it. The reason they've only made Maxim(B) react to Lydie's bracelet is twofold imo:

1) Evil/ 'influenced' (by Dracula, his remains or whatnot) individuals often react unfavourably to "good/pure things" or triggers that resemble them. The way this is handled CV games is by equipping something like a bracelet.

The bracelet resonating with Maxim is what finally purges Maxim(B) out of him, and then the remains resonate - in Castle B only, being associated with chaos, or whatever one wishes to call it.

I do believe if Juste had lost this battle, the castles would still merge, but with Maxim as the host body for Dracula: notice how the remains turn into Dracula Wraith whose second form is (you guessed it) a cluster of actual remains.. If Maxim(B) had won, Dracula would return the way he did with Isaac in COD imo. This may also have happened in Castle A, but it makes little difference if the Castles then merge. 

My take:
Why this only happens in Castle B is because B imo is the "Chaotic" or more demonic side of the castle which is why it's associated with Maxim(B); 2 Maxims with the same will except one is still clinging to good and retaining his humanity(A), while the other(B) is trying to resurrect Dracula, has extraordinary powers (compared to the original, which is the one you play as in Maxim mode) and has almost succumb to the influence of the remains.

Because the theme of the story re: Belmonts is a hero defeating evil/ Dracula, the shit only goes down in Castle B.

I could go more into this but I'm on a mobile device, so I'll try to summarise.. Let's say I'm leaning towards Castle B being the side from which "chaos" (perhaps via the influence of the remains, as we've seen Barlowe undergo in OOE) flows.. Therefore the Maxims(A+B) are the same physical being, fought at the same instance under slightly different circumstances. Fighting Maxim(B) would be like fighting Richter with the Holy Glasses, while fighting Maxim(A) would be like fighting Richter without them.

 
2) There's a logistical quality whereby the developers provide a number of endings. For example, there's no reason stated explicitly as to why Richter Belmont dying causes the Castle to collapse(or both Castles) in Sotn. (Shaft wanted Dracula's resurrection, he was using Richter to ward off other Vampires [and most likely open the seal in the 'infinite corridor' as per plottwist's theory] but in reality Alucard killing Richter should still allow him to progress, but it doesn't.)

Pertaining to my take in (1):
The purely straightforward way to see this outcome is that the Maxim(A or B) battle in the final room is when the 2 castles are starting to merge or overlap (like an eclipse); Either Maxim winning causes the merge, either Maxim losing stops the merge, but if good Maxim(A) loses then Maxim is lost, if 'influenced' Maxim(B) loses then the real ending happens.
I do believe with CV it can be that simple as the gameplay and design will come first with the story to support the themes/ ideas of the gameplay.

[Nagumo]

That seems like such a complicated explanation, though. Couldn't it be simply the case that they messed up the programming and accidentally made it only possible to unlock the best ending in castle B while I should have been castle A?  That way everything would make sense. It almost seems that way if you read the dialogue when you go fight evil Maxim in castle B. He mentions how the real Maxim no longer exists within him and Juste also mentions something about being too late to save Lydie (supposedly because she already got a large portion of her blood drained by evil Maxim). All of this suggests the player got locked into a path to the worst ending. Compare this to the situation in castle A where Maxim is still struggling against evil Maxim and Lydie is unconscious but in better condition. There really is no reason why the best ending shouldn't have occured in castle A which makes me think the programmers pulled a Simon's Quest and messed up the endings.

I know the Double Pack version made some small tweaks to both AoS and HoD. I wonder if perhaps they fixed the endings in that version but nobody ever noticed the difference?