Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [ID] Topic: Simon's Quest endings analysis  (Read 4173 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nagumo

  • Midnight Memory
  • Global Moderator
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Female
  • Awards Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention. Town Crier: Updates the forum with many news items, often not even Castlevania. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. Master Debater: Gracefully argues 'til the cows come home about topics.
    • Awards
  • Likes:
Simon's Quest endings analysis
« on: July 18, 2018, 08:20:08 AM »
+2
I recently bought the official Japanese guide for Simon's Quest. This books contains a special section dedicated to describing each ending and how to get it. 

(click to show/hide)

Two interestings discoveries I made:

First of all, the guidebook confirms that the ending text of the worst and middle ending have been mixed up. The text of the worst ending says Simon died of his wounds and that this is why the screen is colored gray and why he doesn't appear in the ending. The text of the normal ending says Simon is praying in front of Dracula's grave and describes it as the ending that looks the most happy.

So here's the correct combination of visuals and ending text:



"And the battle ended. But on account of the injury suffered during the battle, Simmon Belmont passed away. Until a young man to fight against evils like him comes again to this world, Transylvanians will keep praying forever. "



"And the battle ended. Now the peace and calm have arrived back at Transylvania just live before. The name of the hero will be etched upon our mind deeply. His name is Simmon Belmont, that is the name of yourself. "

Secondly, the guidebook mentions there are four endings instead of three. According to the guidebook, the third ending is unlocked after the game is beat in around 5 days and the accompanying visual is just Simon praying at Dracula's grave at dusk. The fourth ending is unlocked after beating in around 3 days and it's the same as the third ending but with the additional scene of Dracula's hand rising from the grave. I wonder if there's some kind of programming error in final version of the game which caused the third ending to never get triggered (instead showing the fourth ending). Is there anyway to check this?   

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
  • We fresh outta the Met Gala, express power
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 06:55:13 AM »
0
Hackers would have taken the game apart and found the 4th ending by now, the same way they confirmed there was no item in Zelda OOT called "Triforce", dispelling many myths.

When was the guide released?
This may be a case of the blue floating ghouls that were featured in the Japanese manual but never made it into the final cut of the game. Perhaps the 4 endings were considered too much and they thought 3 would be more straight forward.

If this guide was released before the game itself, I'm not really seeing that the level of QC would completely stuff up 2/3 endings.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

  • Midnight Memory
  • Global Moderator
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Female
  • Awards Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention. Town Crier: Updates the forum with many news items, often not even Castlevania. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. Master Debater: Gracefully argues 'til the cows come home about topics.
    • Awards
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 11:45:11 AM »
0
The guide was released in October 1987.

You'll be suprised at some the things that haven't been discovered yet. Case in point, did you know there's an unused graphic of Dracula's sixth body part in the game's code? I don't think even the game's Cutting Room Floor page mentions that.

Something that is possibly related: "The Japanese version contains an easter egg: If the game was beat exactly on day 69 (not before, not later), an extra line is displayed after the text: SEE YOU AGAIN. " (https://bisqwit.iki.fi/cv2fin/diff)

I wonder if that piece of text was misplaced and was actually supposed to be displayed after Dracula's hands appears. Perhaps the hand was supposed to be a "wave at the player" moment but done in a horror movie fashion.

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
  • We fresh outta the Met Gala, express power
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 03:17:19 PM »
0
The guide was released in October 1987.

You'll be suprised at some the things that haven't been discovered yet. Case in point, did you know there's an unused graphic of Dracula's sixth body part in the game's code? I don't think even the game's Cutting Room Floor page mentions that.

Something that is possibly related: "The Japanese version contains an easter egg: If the game was beat exactly on day 69 (not before, not later), an extra line is displayed after the text: SEE YOU AGAIN. " (https://bisqwit.iki.fi/cv2fin/diff)

I wonder if that piece of text was misplaced and was actually supposed to be displayed after Dracula's hands appears. Perhaps the hand was supposed to be a "wave at the player" moment but done in a horror movie fashion.


The unused graphic of the fang may be the 4th ending of that's the case.

The synopsis of SQ is currently that Dracula uses the fang to attack Simon, the body part which in inside Dracula's throne room. However, what if it wasn't and it was an item you could find? Then there'd be a 4th ending where Simon and Dracula didn't fight, rather Simon would burn the body parts and walk away due to the curse being broken. However, they probably figured they couldn't have scenario/ ending with no boss fight.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline theplottwist

  • Canon Literalist
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • プロットツイスト君
  • Awards 2018-06 Sprite Contest First Place 2017-07-Sprite Contest 2nd PLace 2016-09-Sprite Contest First Place 2015 - Christmas Award First Place 2015 - Halloween Sprite Contest - Second Place
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania Adventure Rebirth (Wii)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 04:23:40 PM »
+1

The unused graphic of the fang may be the 4th ending of that's the case.

The synopsis of SQ is currently that Dracula uses the fang to attack Simon, the body part which in inside Dracula's throne room. However, what if it wasn't and it was an item you could find? Then there'd be a 4th ending where Simon and Dracula didn't fight, rather Simon would burn the body parts and walk away due to the curse being broken. However, they probably figured they couldn't have scenario/ ending with no boss fight.

The fang is drawn (and grouped) along with the other relics. Implying it was really a collectable item along with the others.

Also, it's it's a pair of vampire fangs. I posted the graphic here years ago, but the host took it down. Maybe its time I posted again via a better host:



At the time I used this to demonstrate that the fang was always intended to exist and not just a made up information from the guide. But this along what Nagumo found out and yout hypothesis about the 4th ending makes me wonder if this rabbit hole goes deeper.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 04:27:33 PM by theplottwist »
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.


Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
  • We fresh outta the Met Gala, express power
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2018, 02:00:31 AM »
0
The fang is drawn (and grouped) along with the other relics. Implying it was really a collectable item along with the others.

Also, it's it's a pair of vampire fangs. I posted the graphic here years ago, but the host took it down. Maybe its time I posted again via a better host:



At the time I used this to demonstrate that the fang was always intended to exist and not just a made up information from the guide. But this along what Nagumo found out and yout hypothesis about the 4th ending makes me wonder if this rabbit hole goes deeper.


We know Simon is attacked by Dracula who uses the fang(s), so I will bet that the 'dual fangs' are literally what are depicted in Drac's attack sprite frames.

Perhaps initially these were intended as a Gradius-like shield/ projectile that could spin around Simon/ be launched as a whip projectile (similar to Sonia or Christopher). It may not have been the strongest sub-weapon but could've been the more versatile.

I am convinced there's something to this which relates to a 4th ending.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

  • Midnight Memory
  • Global Moderator
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Female
  • Awards Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention. Town Crier: Updates the forum with many news items, often not even Castlevania. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. Master Debater: Gracefully argues 'til the cows come home about topics.
    • Awards
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 11:08:36 AM »
0
Giving what we now know, I think the order of the endings is logical. 

Bad ending: Simon breaks the curse but takes too long and succumbs to his wounds.

Normal ending: Simon breaks the curse and survives. However, there is no guarantee Dracula will stay dead forever. (This is most likely the current canon ending considering Rondo has Dracula reviving like it's business as usual).

Best ending: Simon breaks the curse and destroys Dracula forever. (Most likely the former canon ending).

All of these endings are dependant on how much time passed within the game's story. So I personally don't think there's any reason (at this time) to assume one of the endings might originally have been triggered by getting a specific item.   

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
  • We fresh outta the Met Gala, express power
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2018, 12:42:04 PM »
0
Giving what we now know, I think the order of the endings is logical. 

Bad ending: Simon breaks the curse but takes too long and succumbs to his wounds.

Normal ending: Simon breaks the curse and survives. However, there is no guarantee Dracula will stay dead forever. (This is most likely the current canon ending considering Rondo has Dracula reviving like it's business as usual).

Best ending: Simon breaks the curse and destroys Dracula forever. (Most likely the former canon ending).

All of these endings are dependant on how much time passed within the game's story. So I personally don't think there's any reason (at this time) to assume one of the endings might originally have been triggered by getting a specific item.

The problem with the "normal" ending being canon means that the hand coming out if the grave should've been in this ending, but instead it was in the best ending..

What I'm saying to you Nagumo is that the final body part was potentially omitted because it causes a logistical issue of having no boss fight -
A) With the official Japanese guide stating that Dracula attacks Simon with the fang ie no fang = no boss fight
B) All the endings are based upon a timer, therefore the inclusion of such an item doesn't work.

However, plot-wise if Simon could've gathered the final body part, we know there's nothing for Dracula to attack Simon with, there's therefore no boss fight. This also would've potentially complicated the endings and game mechanics; say the player did find all the parts and the fang but it took too long, you'd have Dracula being destroyed, but Simon succumbing to his wounds because of the time taken.... So many potential outcomes were more than likely simplified.

Simon's Quest is so different than the rest, if they had included the fang as a hard to acquire item with a potential for no boss fight at the end, it would've broken the mould of gaming even moreso than it did.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

  • Midnight Memory
  • Global Moderator
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Female
  • Awards Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention. Town Crier: Updates the forum with many news items, often not even Castlevania. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. Master Debater: Gracefully argues 'til the cows come home about topics.
    • Awards
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2018, 03:58:28 AM »
0
It's possible, but it's pretty much impossible to proof unless one of the developers confirms it in an interview or something. Who knows, though.

The problem with the "normal" ending being canon means that the hand coming out if the grave should've been in this ending, but instead it was in the best ending..

Actually, the fact that the hand doesn't come out makes it plausible it's the canon ending. Otherwise the opening scene of RoB/DXC wouldn't match up. As for what the deal with the hand is, I still have nothing concrete on that, unfortunately.

By the way, is there any way to see what happens if you beat the Japanese version of Simon's Quest within three days or less? There's no speedrunning video of that version as far as I know. I could try and do it myself but it would be convenient if there's an easier way to check.     

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
  • We fresh outta the Met Gala, express power
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2018, 04:19:09 AM »
0
It's possible, but it's pretty much impossible to proof unless one of the developers confirms it in an interview or something. Who knows, though.

Actually, the fact that the hand doesn't come out makes it plausible it's the canon ending. Otherwise the opening scene of RoB/DXC wouldn't match up. As for what the deal with the hand is, I still have nothing concrete on that, unfortunately.

By the way, is there any way to see what happens if you beat the Japanese version of Simon's Quest within three days or less? There's no speedrunning video of that version as far as I know. I could try and do it myself but it would be convenient if there's an easier way to check.     

I have to agree to disagree. The hand is canon, it's not to be taken literally, it's simply indicative that Dracula will return. Best text = best ending which the fastest ending contains both. If anything was mixed up in the text in the middle ending with the black and white (worst) ending - I say this because it mentions Simon couldn't survive his wounds and another hero will have to step in to fight evil.

https://youtu.be/JyFDP6Ee0dk

3 days or less = hand
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

  • Midnight Memory
  • Global Moderator
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Female
  • Awards Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention. Town Crier: Updates the forum with many news items, often not even Castlevania. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. Master Debater: Gracefully argues 'til the cows come home about topics.
    • Awards
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2018, 04:58:32 AM »
0
I have to agree to disagree. The hand is canon, it's not to be taken literally, it's simply indicative that Dracula will return.

It's possible but this is a very specific interpretation. You would need confirmation from one of the developers to know that for sure. As far as I'm concerned, this mystery hasn't been solved yet.   

Best text = best ending which the fastest ending contains both. If anything was mixed up in the text in the middle ending with the black and white (worst) ending - I say this because it mentions Simon couldn't survive his wounds and another hero will have to step in to fight evil.

Yes, the guide confirms the text for the worst and middle ending were mixed up. I suspect it's because nobody on the development team could read English and thus nobody could tell the difference. Or did you mean someting else was mixed up?

https://youtu.be/JyFDP6Ee0dk

3 days or less = hand

The ending says: "Toast to your 7 day's battle". 

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
  • We fresh outta the Met Gala, express power
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2018, 05:12:27 PM »
0
It's possible but this is a very specific interpretation. You would need confirmation from one of the developers to know that for sure. As far as I'm concerned, this mystery hasn't been solved yet.   

Yes, the guide confirms the text for the worst and middle ending were mixed up. I suspect it's because nobody on the development team could read English and thus nobody could tell the difference. Or did you mean someting else was mixed up?

The ending says: "Toast to your 7 day's battle".

A specific interpretation, are you really having a go? In how many movies and games etc is the villain not really dead, leaving an opening for a sequel. A classic example being Metroid Prime, finish the game on the hardest difficulty with 100% items and the same thing occurs. The canon ending isn't necessarily the one with the best outcome, it's the one where the player is shown the most information. This often involves leaving an opening for a sequel.

Your logic: the guide confirms nothing, it merely shows that at some stage there were 4 endings intended in a specific order, not 3. I'm afraid your interpretation of the guide is too specific and you'd need a developer's confirmation for good measure... I kind of sound condescending now don't I..

"Good Ending: Complete the game in 7 days or less" - It's counting days in-game, not actual days.
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Castlevania_II:_Simon%27s_Quest/Endings
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

  • Midnight Memory
  • Global Moderator
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Female
  • Awards Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention. Town Crier: Updates the forum with many news items, often not even Castlevania. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. Master Debater: Gracefully argues 'til the cows come home about topics.
    • Awards
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2018, 02:44:54 AM »
0
Hold on, I didn't intend to sound condescending. I'm just trying to explain why I think you're being a bit hasty with your conclusion.

A specific interpretation, are you really having a go? In how many movies and games etc is the villain not really dead, leaving an opening for a sequel. A classic example being Metroid Prime, finish the game on the hardest difficulty with 100% items and the same thing occurs. The canon ending isn't necessarily the one with the best outcome, it's the one where the player is shown the most information. This often involves leaving an opening for a sequel.

Yes, but you said in your previous post:
Quote
I have to agree to disagree. The hand is canon, it's not to be taken literally, it's simply indicative that Dracula will return.

You were talking about a cliff hanger that is not to be taken literally. That's already getting very specific. Speaking from personal experience, all the cliff hangers I've seen were meant to be taken literally. Furthermore, even if such a thing was common in fiction, that fact would only serve as secondary evidence for your theory, not as primary evidence. There would be no guarantee the developers intented that specific interpretation of their ending. It could still be possible, I'm just saying there's no conclusive evidence for it.

Quote
"Good Ending: Complete the game in 7 days or less" - It's counting days in-game, not actual days.
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Castlevania_II:_Simon%27s_Quest/Endings

I don't understand what you mean. In the Japanse, the game counts the number of in-game days it took to beat the game. At the end of the video it says the player beat the game in 7 days. Therefore, it doesn't show what happens if you beat the game in 3 days or less.

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2931
  • We fresh outta the Met Gala, express power
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2018, 03:37:00 AM »
0
Hold on, I didn't intend to sound condescending. I'm just trying to explain why I think you're being a bit hasty with your conclusion.

Okay. Your conclusion re: my conclusion sounds hasty to me.

Yes, but you said in your previous post:
You were talking about a cliff hanger that is not to be taken literally. That's already getting very specific.
No it isn't. It's been done in plenty of movies and games that never even had sequels and some that did, but the next iteration had little to nothing to do with the prequel.
Examples of movies:
Masters of the Universe - Skeletor returns after credits
Street Fighter the movie (live action) - Bison returns after the credits (hand goes up, which is the same cliché element)
Lawnmower Man - at the end of the film every telephone in the world rings meaning the villain succeeded, even though the sequel has nothing to do with the first
Examples of games:
Alone in the Dark - games ends, main character gets into a car, the driver turns around and a skeleton is driving the car, laughs loudly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd9WLFlXnz8

I can go on but I will leave it there. It's an interpretation of the ending signifying that Dracula never dies - or at least he didn't back then prior to AoS' backstory, given he resurrects every 100 years.

Also if you want to argue that it's a specific interpretation, there is an alternate one being that the Japanese version of SCVIV never explicitly states it's not a sequel to SQ. Therefore anyone can marry up the grave which Simon is standing by in SQ's ending with the one in SCVIV's intro and call it a sequel.

The grave itself in the ending is also more than likely retconned by now, given that Iga's timeline never considered Vlad III to be Dracula.

The thing to all of this is, my interpretations are just that but they are also based on reasonable assumptions which I've listed - they're not specific to this game. Your interpretations are also based on assumptions - yes you have a guide, but that guide is obviously not referencing the latest version of the game which has 3 endings.

Speaking from personal experience, all the cliff hangers I've seen were meant to be taken literally. Furthermore, even if such a thing was common in fiction, that fact would only serve as secondary evidence for your theory, not as primary evidence. There would be no guarantee the developers intented that specific interpretation of their ending. It could still be possible, I'm just saying there's no conclusive evidence for it.

Then interpret the endings in a better way and use other evidence. All you're currently telling us is that you believe this guide is evidence the endings were mixed up. However, if we're going by what is in-game this doesn't hold water unless you chop it up to a programming error.

However, when I propose a theory, you cry foul and state I require developer's commentary. No sorry, there's one set of rules in this dungeon.

I don't understand what you mean. In the Japanse, the game counts the number of in-game days it took to beat the game. At the end of the video it says the player beat the game in 7 days. Therefore, it doesn't show what happens if you beat the game in 3 days or less.

You previously mentioned 3 days or less and queried whether there was a video.
I'm not certain where the 3 days or less came from regarding the endings which is why I sent the link which states in the final version of the game, the endings are as follows:
7 days or less = Good
8-14 days = normal
15 days + = bad

I'm not even sure it's possible to beat the game within three days, given the youtube link I sent is still relatively fast for a run. (EDIT: I did write "3 days or less = hand" which wasn't intentional, it was a reply to your initial post)

Double Edit: this thread talks about the Japanese endings https://legendsoflocalization.com/did-castlevania-iis-endings-get-mixed-up/
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 04:57:31 AM by zangetsu468 »
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

  • Midnight Memory
  • Global Moderator
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Female
  • Awards Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention. Town Crier: Updates the forum with many news items, often not even Castlevania. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. Master Debater: Gracefully argues 'til the cows come home about topics.
    • Awards
  • Likes:
Re: Simon's Quest endings analysis
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2018, 08:57:59 AM »
0
 
Okay. Your conclusion re: my conclusion sounds hasty to me.
No it isn't. It's been done in plenty of movies and games that never even had sequels and some that did, but the next iteration had little to nothing to do with the prequel.

There's indeed a bunch of movies where the cliffhanger of the previous film got ignored. However, this can be caused by all kinds of reason and it's not evidence the cliffhanger is not to be taken literally in-universe, just that it was ignored. None of the movies you listed are examples of what you argued in your previous post.

All we know for sure is that CVII's best ending and Rondo's opening don't match up. If this is because, as you proposed, the cliff hanger was not meant to be taken literally, or because of various other explanations, we can't tell because there's no primary evidence and not enough convincing secondary evidence. That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure why that upsets you.

Quote
Then interpret the endings in a better way and use other evidence. All you're currently telling us is that you believe this guide is evidence the endings were mixed up. However, if we're going by what is in-game this doesn't hold water unless you chop it up to a programming error.

However, when I propose a theory, you cry foul and state I require developer's commentary. No sorry, there's one set of rules in this dungeon.

Here's my reasoning for why the worst and middle ending text are mixed up:

[secondary evidence]: According to the manual, the mystery woman tells Simon he needs to burn Dracula's body parts "while the curse is still weak". This adds a time element to the story, and solidifies the fact the endings change depending on how much time has passed rather than other factors.

[secondary evidence]: The middle ending text sounds worse than the worst ending. When you have an ending system based on time, it's more logical the ending order is "worst - okay - best" rather than "okay - worst - best".

[secondary evidence]:  Simon doesn't appear at grave in worst ending but does in the normal ending. The normal text informs Simon has died while the text of the worst ending mentions no such thing. It would make more sense that Simon dies in the worst ending but lives in the normal ending.

[primary evidence]: The official guide mentions Simon dies in the worst ending and lives in the normal ending, contrary to the in-game text. On top of that, it explicitly says Simon doesn't appear at the grave in the worst ending because Simon died and the visuals are grey to reflect this, meaning it's not a mix-up by the author of the guide.

[secondary evidence]: It's known that a lot Japanese people can't read English, even moreso during the 80s. This makes it plausible nobody on the development team noticed the endings texts were mixed up and explains why it was never fixed.

Tags:
 

anything