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Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Since Bram Stoker's novel is part of the IGA timeline
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2018, 12:21:54 PM »
0
I don't understand what you're asking because I've been answering the same thing all along.

In the radio drama (Japan only) my understanding is that initially Richter stopped using the VK and went into hiding with Annette out of shame. This has been discussed and referenced in this thread https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=9340.0 which also mentions Belmonts not touching the whip.
I read that the whole shame thing was not the main reason, as I read that IGA had no idea why he left, or why they couldn't 'touch the whip I've heard that the shame thing was never really confirmed. and  what i'm asking is

my point is the weaken whip never came in to my points. aside from showing that they will  fight untill the end.


my idea only coverd why the belmonts left the whip  till 1999. 

Not what happen afterwould in AoS.  so why did you bring up that at all. That what I'm
asking
 ohhhh wait is your point that after SoTN the whip weaken so they left it to train to power the whip back up? cos other wise i don't see how  we got from richter leaveing the whip to find a way to cure them selfs from being affect by evil. To the whip being wekend?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 12:25:46 PM by Guy Belmont »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Since Bram Stoker's novel is part of the IGA timeline
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2018, 04:38:23 PM »
0
Okay, in the interests of putting Dracula's Nail in the coffin, I will try to be as factual and succinct as I can be.

I read that the whole shame thing was not the main reason, as I read that IGA had no idea why he left, or why they couldn't 'touch the whip I've heard that the shame thing was never really confirmed.

The radio drama is considered canon, whether we like it or not. This does tie into OOE for reasons I mentioned earlier, added to the fact that Alucard is thought to have sealed/ given Dracula's remains to Ecclesia.

If you're saying you've read or heard something otherwise or there's a citation from Iga himself, would you please be so kind as to provide this.

my point is the weaken whip never came in to my points. aside from showing that they will  fight untill the end.
Okay, no bother. Disregard.

my idea only coverd why the belmonts left the whip  till 1999.
Okay, understood.

Not what happen afterwould in AoS.  so why did you bring up that at all. That what I'm
asking
I brought it up to explain an idea that the Belmonts acquire a significant power boost when the VK is at full power. The difference between Julius in AoS and DoS being a prime example. The narrative reason being that the VK was "powered down" after the ending of AoS.

I'm not focusing on context here, I'm focusing on the behaviour (power boost) of the fully powered VK with a true-to-the-throne Belmont wielding it.

ohhhh wait is your point that after SoTN the whip weaken so they left it to train to power the whip back up?
It did but that's not my point, moving on.

cos other wise i don't see how  we got from richter leaveing the whip to find a way to
cure them selfs from being affect by evil. To the whip being wekend?

Are you saying this idea in bold is canon or is it your theory?
The Belmonts aren't invulnerable to evil. In one of the bad endings of Simon's Quest, he dies from the wounds inflicted upon him by Dracula in battle, in the other, he presumably dies from the curse.
Edit: Soleiyu was influenced by evil (Dracula) and Richter was primarily influenced by Shaft because Shaft's spirit entered his body after he was battered and weakened during the fight with Dracula. Any evil influencing Richter ceased after Alucard frees him from Shaft's control which is before he enters the inverted Castle. Hell, Trevor got blindsighted and was nearly killed by Isaac during CoD.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:39:48 AM by zangetsu468 »
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64        ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE     RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS
                                                                          v
                                                                          BE>*
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Since Bram Stoker's novel is part of the IGA timeline
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2018, 06:13:26 PM »
0
If you're saying you've read or heard something otherwise or there's a citation from Iga himself, would you please be so kind as to provide this.
I remember reading this a long  time ago, for my fan work, as I needed a reason why they would not be able to use there whip
 I seem to remember  But I found him saying this
PM[6]One of the big series mysteries regards the Belmont family's loss of the legendary whip, the Vampire Killer. We finally saw a little bit of this hinted in Portrait... was Richter Belmont the last Belmont to wield it?
 
(click to show/hide)
I will talk about this more.

I brought it up to explain an idea that the Belmonts acquire a significant power boost when the VK is at full power. The difference between Julius in AoS and DoS being a prime example. The narrative reason being that the VK was "powered down" after the ending of AoS.
I'm not focusing on context here, I'm focusing on the behaviour (power boost) of the fully powered VK with a true-to-the-throne Belmont wielding it.
In the games story he was no different, even doing something that soma thought should imposable, the only reason he lost was cos he was not the main character, sort like how Trevor took a back seat to hector. and if your going to blame anything for
losing, its his age, he  blamed it after he broke the seal. 

(click to show/hide)

No if only had the VK at full power, no age, as he is ageing. And even a year can make a diff a BIG diff.
And in terms of gameplay, he is  weaker, but that's only cos it was far TOOO easy in Aos as I've played it so much now that I can't be hit, and as Julius mode was story driven this time. That makes the game FAR to easy. And by your own idea this clashes with your idea as  you said
"
VK's power is fading, presumably because chaos has now subsided and Soma prevented himself from becoming Dark Lord."
But by this point soma is the dark load so chaos should be in full swing, so we should have  fully powered VK. Do you have any proof for this idea of the VK to give them a power boost other then what you have just told me?

Are you saying this idea in bold is canon or is it your theory?

No we all know how may times this has happen, that's why in my idea it would make sense for them to after Richter got cursed, he would what to find away to make sure this never happened again and finding out that the count will rise  in 1999. they needed to find cure as the last thing they what is this happing in 1999, but to get something as powerful as that there is often a trade off,  hints the Belmont's losing the whip and the fact it being something they can get round,
not just training, as to me that sounds like they trying to built its power, and if in your idea they get a boost off the VK, would it not make sense to train with the whip.
Also, Simon worried that was it him or the whip,  as he said this

(click to show/hide)

So this whole Belmont's getting a power boost from the fully powered VK, as Simon must be using a fully power VK and you may be thinking but the whip in DoS is chain, but many times the art work shows the whip to be leather So we can't really use that as a guide.
And why stick Simons whole thing in there if it is a fact that the Belmont's get a boost from the whip, it really doesn't work.
The idea really falls down here as this game came out after DoS as well. Also could you be more Precise about the a Full Powered VK, as by the time Julius got the vk back in Aos it may not have been full power,
 so no boost.  :-\
And in my book i always thought that the VK became fully powered When ever a Full blooded Belmont used it.


So again our idea seem to clash and i don't think we will ever agree, so lets just leave it here.  :)


« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 06:39:43 PM by Guy Belmont »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Since Bram Stoker's novel is part of the IGA timeline
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2018, 07:46:35 PM »
0
So again our idea seem to clash and i don't think we will ever agree, so lets just leave it here.  :)

I think this is for the best.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64        ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE     RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS
                                                                          v
                                                                          BE>*
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline DragonSlayr81

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Re: Since Bram Stoker's novel is part of the IGA timeline
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2018, 08:01:52 PM »
0
For me, at least how I took it, CV's depictions of the events of the novel happened differently from that in the novel, like an alternate version (alternate reality). I see is similar to the events of 1476. In reality, our world, that's when people thought Dracula (Vlad III) was killed/died. In the CV universe, Dracula was killed by Trevor, Sypha, Alucard and Grant. In reality, Vlad III was a man, in CV, he was a vampire. The difference between our world's real Dracula and CV's depiction would, IMO, be similar to the difference between Stoker's events of the novel Dracula and CV's take on those events. The main gist might be the same, but the changes between the two would make the differences apparent. In Stoker's novel, Quincey's a bachelor who is there to woo Lucy. In the CV's depiction, I could see him being a widower looking for a woman to love and that could be a mother figure to his young son, John, and Quincey sees something in Lucy.

Mathias assuming Vlad's name makes more sense than somehow becoming the son of Vlad the Dragon, but it's still a weirdly underdeveloped plot point. It really just comes across as IGA having watched Coppola's Dracula and wanting to do his own twist on the prologue.



Humperdoo!
Personally, I think "Dracula" is a symbol of who Mathias is. He is the successor of Walter Bernhard, and I've always considered Walter to be CV's "Dracul". He wears red dragon armor, and has dragon heads for his knee guards. Mathias uses the Crimson Stone to steal his soul and use it to become a powerful vampire, becoming "Dracula".

Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Since Bram Stoker's novel is part of the IGA timeline
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2018, 04:35:52 PM »
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Quincey's a bachelor who is there to woo Lucy. In the CV's depiction, I could see him being a widower looking for a woman to love and that could be a mother figure to his young son.
I Have read this some where before, was that ever in the canon?  or is it just one of those fan ideas that have been around for so long that its almost canon. I only ask as I can't find where I read it.
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Offline DragonSlayr81

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Re: Since Bram Stoker's novel is part of the IGA timeline
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2018, 03:40:42 PM »
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I Have read this some where before, was that ever in the canon?  or is it just one of those fan ideas that have been around for so long that its almost canon. I only ask as I can't find where I read it.
I could be a fan theory (not sure if they mention it for any of the Bloodlines material). I just brought it up because it seems like a logical reason why he'd bring young John to Europe. Though one could be liberal with the Stoker's Dracula reference because we don't know how CV's version of those events went down. For all we know, Quincey wasn't a part of the whole "courting Lucy" bit and came over after hearing rumors of Dracula arriving in England.

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