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Offline Nagumo

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Multiple theories have been offered over the years as to why the Belmonts disappeared after Richter and why they lost the ability to use the Vampire Killer. However, none of them have been very satisfactory in my opinion. 

There have been a lot of them, but the two that stand out most in my memory are: 1) The Belmont bloodline got “tainted" because of Richter having been manipulated by Shaft, resulting in them not being able to touch the whip until 1999, and 2 ) for whatever reason no male heir was born and only male Belmonts can wield the Vampire Killer. Both explanations have obvious issues. 

The first theory doesn’t really explain why the Belmonts becoming tainted would result in them giving up vampire hunting all together. After all, the fact that characters like Hector and Alucard can defeat Dracula means the Belmonts don’t necessarily need the Vampire Killer. In that scenario, what would stop them, say, from borrowing Alucard’s Masumane and continue fighting monsters that way?  Secondly, why would they be cured of this condition after what is essentially an arbitrary amount of time? I know pretty any explanation for phenomena (both natural and otherwise) seems pretty much arbitrary if you dig deep enough, but as an answer to a mystery such as this it would come across as very forced.   

Aside from the second theory being lame for obvious reasons, as well as being very improbable, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense of either.  If this is attributed to the Vampire Killer not accepting female wielders, then that would be stupid because there's no reason for the whip to make such a distinction. Alternatively, if this is attributed to female Belmonts not being able to become vampire hunters because of them not being as strong as male Belmonts, then that would be even more stupid.  Based on the feats the Belmonts have shown in the games (being able to take down enemies which are many times their size and weight, pulling off impossible moves like falcon kicks and double jumps, etc.) they’re clearly something more than peak level humans. Since they’re more akin to demigod their power is clearly mystical rather than just physical. At that point, there’s no reason to claim the power of a Belmont would differ based on sex.

This brings me to my own theory. While I was thinking about it, I wanted to avoid the pitfalls of the above two theories: failing to answer the question adequately and arbitrariness. With this theory I will also try answering two other questions. Namely: "What makes the Belmont clan's bloodline 'purer' than its branch families?” and “After 1000 years, why aren’t there dozens of powerful Belmont vampire hunters operating at the same time?”   
 
There’s evidence the Belmonts derive their power from their bloodline. An obvious example is Juste whose magical powers are attributed to his connection with the Belnades family. We also know that because of their connection to the Belmonts,  the Wygol villagers have blood with special properties, which sometimes manifest itself in the form of special abilities. For example, Laura is a tarot card reader and Anna is sensitive to evil spirits.       

Here’s where I start speculating. It could be possible this special blood is weakened when members of the Belmont family intermingle with ordinary humans. Furthermore, it’s also possible that the Belmonts take active steps to prevent this weakening of their bloodline by intermarrying with people that possesses magical or divine ancestry like them (case in point: the Belnades family).  This special blood is definitely still running strong in the Morris and Lecarde families, but it’s possible their family trees contain more instances of marriages with regular humans, making them less powerful. This would also mean that Belmonts descendants from lines with lots of such intermarriages would eventually stop displaying overt magical powers and become almost indistinguishable from ordinary humans after a certain amount of generations. This could very well be the case with the Wygol villagers.

IGA has been on record stating the reason Richter passed on the Morris family because he felt shame for having been manipulated by Shaft. However, there has been some debate on whether or not that is still canon in light of information revealed in PoR (Eric saying that the Belmonts and the Vampire Killer should be kept separate until 1999).  Nevertheless, I decided to incorporate this information into my theory. Based on this statement and what I said earlier, I propose the following scenario:

Richter decides he longer wants to be a vampire hunter and after having entrusted the Vampire Killer to the Morris family, he elopes with Annette (who as far we know is an ordinary human). From that point on, the Belmonts no longer intermarry with members from other special families and lead peaceful, ordinary lives.  This is the reason why everyone believes they have "disappeared". After a certain amount they're rediscovered, possibly by the Lecarde family, but by that time their bloodline has weakened so much that wielding the Vampire Killer is even more dangerous for them that it is for the Morris family. As for how Julius fits into this picture, it’s possible his birth was foretold in Nostradamus’ prophecy, possible as some kind of divine miracle.

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It's very good theory, but i also think that after Richter was manipulated by shaft, that this was maybe because of the intense use of vampire killer for so many years or not, Alucard when realizing this he devised a plan, so that this would not continue to get worse, and he separate the belmonts and the whip for a few generations, so that the whip would recover, and the belmonts would only dedicate themselves to train and perfect their generational training, that's why alucard made the alucard spear and delivered it to the Lecarde that are probably descendants of Alucard and Maria, who maybe were persecuted for being together, and maybe for that reason their offspring changed their last name, that's why they have those powers and the whip was given to the Morris ... well it's just a theory that I've just occur jajaja of course there were also other anti-demoniacal institutions like ecclesia or what do I know?  :P

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It's an interesting theory Nagumo but it too suffers from its own issues, if you'll forgive me for saying. There is no such thing as a pure bloodline. This is where the theory falls apart. And it's not the blood of the Belmonts that makes them the formidable monster-mashing warriors they are (even though extensive physical training does help), it's the magical properties within their blood. Magic is not like DNA. It does not follow the laws of biology/physics the same way DNA does. Magic does not degrade overtime (of course that all depends on the story the writer wishes to impart to the reader). I believe that the magic within the Belmont family was imparted unto them by God's divinity. Whether male or female, main family or branch family, the magic within their blood is still as strong as it ever was. God knew what was to happen with the rise of Dracula so he had planned ahead, and imparted his divine magic to a particular family of hunters. How, why, and when we simply do not know. IGA wanted to make an explanation as to why the whip was no longer used by the Belmonts, but was instead wielded by the Morris family. By doing so however, he created a rather big plothole with no solid basis. It would have worked better had he stated that the Belmont name was lost to Morris as the hair of the whip (a Belmont woman) married a man of the Morris family. This is a very simple explanation and it works just fine. As for why the Belmonts cannot touch the whip until 1999, I feel that this also doesn't make sense. Sure Richter feels terrible shame about having been manipulated by a dark priest. But he shouldn't. Because Christopher's son Soleiyu went through the exact same thing. But that didn't stop the Belmonts from using the whip after the fact. So already we have several major inconsistencies that IGA didn't think too carefully about before he made his final statements.

Again, I apologize Nagumo for throwing a wrench into your hard work. Please forgive  :-\
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 09:15:16 PM by X »
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I think the male heir thing does kind of make sense when you look into the lore as a whole.  The primary games that seem to illustrate the father to son necessity are in taking certain rules and specifics together from LoI and PoR.  I don't think this is what caused the 200 year gap, because Julius still has the surname, but I think there is a logic to the father-to-son thing based on what we know.

First in LoI we learn about the Belmont family connection to the vampire killer.  It is based on the love and absolute trust between Leon and Sara.

We know specifically from PoR (though it was always assumed anyway) that the vampire killer only works for the Belmonts, as far as outright stating that for non-Belmonts it is essentially just a regular leather whip. This also applies to the Morris clan, who though as genetically related to Leon as any Belmont of their same era, cannot access the power of the whip without first proving to the whip that they are indeed a Belmont.  What exactly are they proving?  Well if you remember in PoR Jonathan had to fight an image or “memory” of Richter, the last Belmont to use the vampire killer.

So we know a few things now.  The vampire killer's connection to the Belmonts is based on the connection between Leon and Sara.  That connection seems to only work naturally(without magical aid) with descendants forming a father-to-son line all the way back to Leon.  And in order for a descendant outside of that father-to-son line to use it, they must prove to the whip that they are actually of the Belmont line, by measuring up to the previous Belmont wielder.

Now what does measuring up mean?  Is it just being able to beat them in a fight?  Why is this step unnecessary for the Belmonts who still bear the surname, thus are of a direct father-to-son line from Leon?  I think we have to imagine that it's more about appearing similar enough to the previous wielder than just beating them.  I think, and I know this is not confirmed, that the reason Leon's son, and his son, and his son afterwards all the way to Richter could always just take up the whip was because they were similar enough in mind, body, and spirit to the previous wielder, stretching all the way back to Leon, who the true bond of the vampire killer is based on.  You could easily say that the vampire killer loved Leon, and it's easy to imagine that in order for someone to wield it they would kind of have to pass for him, like a surrogate.

This isn't to say that a female Belmont could never possibly use the whip.  But there is some reason the Morris clan has to jump through special hoops while the Belmonts do not.  Maybe a female Belmont would have to undergo something similar to the Morris clan?

It has only ever been officially stated that the whip passes from father to son in the Dracula X manual, and I know that game's canoninity is dubious at best, but given that nothing in any other games seem to contradict it, and in fact everything present goes right along with it, I see no reason to brush it aside.

It just seems to be what the evidence strongly implies in the canon series.  I love the female characters of this series, and I would love to see female Belmonts as strong badass hunters.  But I kind of like this father-to-son dynamic with the whip, and it seems to have a strong internal logic to me.  That said, I wouldn't really be upset if this were bucked.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 11:27:58 AM by AlexCalvo »
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It has only ever been officially stated that the whip passes from father to son in the Dracula X manual, and I know that game's canoninity is dubious at best, but given that nothing in any other games seem to contradict it

Though a reboot, Super CV4's US manual does mention that the whip is passed on to the eldest child. It never stated whether the child is male or female. I don't know what the Japanese manual states though.
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Offline Guy Belmont

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The idea of the Morris clan having such a hard time when the Belmont's don't, isn't  really hard to figure out
The magic is just really specific one.

and the key word being here Magic meaning all sense and logic doesn't apply

there must be some difference
in what ever quality that the Belmont have that  Morris's don't and the magic just reacts to that.






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Interesting. I always thought that Richter just corrupted the Belmont's magical blood by his weakness of being manipulated. Probably because of his last victory against the Count he let his guard down and the manipulative magic of Shaft corrupted his blood.
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I want to comment on how the connenction between the Belmonts and the Vampire Killer works, but I have to admit that I'm not sure I fully understand the in-story logic behind it. So going into "asking questions" mode: Why is a "tainted soul" needed in order for the whip to gain it's "complete form" and why does this make the whip so effective against vampires? What's the purpose of the "soul and blood contract" (from the Japanese version) between Leon and Sara? (Not asking these questions to anyone in particular, by the way)

It has only ever been officially stated that the whip passes from father to son in the Dracula X manual, and I know that game's canoninity is dubious at best, but given that nothing in any other games seem to contradict it, and in fact everything present goes right along with it, I see no reason to brush it aside.

The "father to son" bit seems to have been an invention by the English manual. The original just says the whip is an hereditary weapon without going into further detail.

Again, I apologize Nagumo for throwing a wrench into your hard work. Please forgive  :-\

No worries, X. Thanks for commenting! 

It's an interesting theory Nagumo but it too suffers from its own issues, if you'll forgive me for saying. There is no such thing as a pure bloodline. This is where the theory falls apart. And it's not the blood of the Belmonts that makes them the formidable monster-mashing warriors they are (even though extensive physical training does help), it's the magical properties within their blood. Magic is not like DNA. It does not follow the laws of biology/physics the same way DNA does. Magic does not degrade overtime (of course that all depends on the story the writer wishes to impart to the reader).

Well, the idea does have some support in mythology, which I think is relevant because Castlevania takes a lot of inspiration from it. Take the concept of demi-gods, for example. They're half-god, half-human and are considered less powerful as a result. To me, that implies that magic blood can degrade.       

I believe that the magic within the Belmont family was imparted unto them by God's divinity. Whether male or female, main family or branch family, the magic within their blood is still as strong as it ever was. God knew what was to happen with the rise of Dracula so he had planned ahead, and imparted his divine magic to a particular family of hunters. How, why, and when we simply do not know. 

I'm OK with the concept of people born with special powers because this is a common trope in mythology and fantasy fiction, and there are instances of this happening in the Castlevania univere, too (Hector, for example). However, if you have a family of powered individuals, the first thing I would assume is that this is because of genetics (the magical kind, at least). Otherwise why introduce the concept of a family into your story? Of course, this may be subjective.

Because Christopher's son Soleiyu went through the exact same thing. But that didn't stop the Belmonts from using the whip after the fact. So already we have several major inconsistencies that IGA didn't think too carefully about before he made his final statements.
   

To be fair, IGA did address the Soleiyu incident somewhat by stating the event got covered up. After all, it would have been bad publicty for the Belmonts. Also, everybody reacts differently to certain things that have happend to them, so I'm OK with that.   

and the key word being here Magic meaning all sense and logic doesn't apply
   

I don't really agree with that statement. There's often still an underlying logic behind magic. For example, the reason why Arthur is able to pull the sword from the stone and everybody else failed was the sword judges the worthiness of whoever tries pulling it. It's not because the sword felt like getting pulled out that day. Even if you write a story about magic, you still need logic otherwise anything can just happen arbitrarily. 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 10:22:51 AM by Nagumo »

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To be fair, IGA did address the Soleiyu incident somewhat by stating the event got covered up. After all, it would have been bad publicty for the Belmonts. Also, everybody reacts differently to certain things that have happend to them, so I'm OK with that.

Covering up an incident is one thing, but both Richter and Soleiyu were corrupted. IGA's Cover-up story doesn't explain away the difference between the two Belmonts. It's also interesting to note that while Richter was corrupted by Shaft, Soleiyu was corrupted by Dracula. Even in his weakened state Dracula still outranks Shaft in terms of power. This being the case why is Richter's corruption far greater then Soleiyu's? Again this wasn't very well thought out or addressed. But IGA did state that he glossed over certain details in order to fit the series together. This could be one of those elements that he chose to slightly overlook.
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Offline Guy Belmont

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Why is a "tainted soul" needed in order for the whip to gain it's "complete form" and why does this make the whip so effective against vampires? What's the purpose of the "soul and blood contract" (from the Japanese version) between Leon and Sara?

well  there is no greater thing then the soul, as  holds a part of the divine, a part of Christ.

 And the blood "is the soul.
The soul is not separate from the body.

(click to show/hide)

also  she is a redeemed sinner, who has given her life for others.



(click to show/hide)

Also some  belive that Jesus has left behind the old body and brought his inner divine self, the Christ body, into his consciousness, and made it his own reality and it said we can do that too  because we are all come from  the divine, and we all have that  divine essence, or the Christ body, within ourselves.

i think thats what she did when she whent in to the whip
she reapted by becoming the whip thus a holy scarfice, as when there souls joined, leon being chousen by god cleansed her soul, thus letting her to reach that state. thus the blood packed was made

she gave him the power to slay, so that no one else would ever have to meet with the same fate she did. And she trusted him to one see it to the end, and he tutested him ennuff  to enter a blood packed with him.

And i also think that you can't trick  the ritual, i could be wrong, but i think thats why its so hard to do. cos the steps are very hardcore.

And it has to be 100% real, i don't think you could just have someone you know get bitton then do it on them.
no it has to be pure.

I don't really agree with that statement. There's often still an underlying logic behind magic. For example, the reason why Arthur is able to pull the sword from the stone and everybody else failed was the sword judges the worthiness of whoever tries pulling it. It's not because the sword felt like getting pulled out that day. Even if you write a story about magic, you still need logic otherwise anything can just happen arbitrarily.
 
Ahh i ment plot magic, as anyone woth there salit knows that magic has logic to it. no i ment the story teller playing the

 "oh its magic you don't have to worry about it as it just works"
but to BTH i think that as her soul joined  with leons  she can sense the the holy power in his soul/ blood. and so all belmont must have the same, or very similar energy signature coming from there souls

As death said 

"The color of your soul... You must be a Belmont..."

I don't know if thats in the JP one.

But if it is, then its what i've thought for sometime. And so then if thats the case then morris clan would not matter how close thay are linked, would have a diffrant energy signature coming from there souls. And the signature the belmonts have is the one that is needed.


And i really don't see the belmonts being unable to touch the whip cos it could kill them. as its  holy magic  its never going to go away.

and  as what happen to Richter
I understand why he left out of shame


  the belmonts  are these super holy fighters  that are known as the worlds best vampire hunters.
Richter in particular, as at that time he was seen as the most powerful member. and they   
 have the Vampire killer.

 yet even they still can't resist the counts evils. and I think  there was more then just shame.  think about it,

Richter was used and things could have been very bad if alucard had not stepped in.

So I can see why he passed it on

 


 




« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 08:44:18 PM by Guy Belmont »
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Why is a "tainted soul" needed in order for the whip to gain it's "complete form" and why does this make the whip so effective against vampires? What's the purpose of the "soul and blood contract" (from the Japanese version) between Leon and Sara?

For me this never really worked well for a plot device as souls cannot be tainted. The soul is part of god and therefore cannot be tainted. What happens with vampirism effects only the body; putting the flesh in an undying state. Very much like a disease when you think about it as the person in question must drink the blood of vampires in order to become a vampire. Thus the soul becomes trapped in the undying body and cannot escape until the body is destroyed. But even still the soul would remain unaffected, as it's not biological in nature. The soul is none-linear, none-mechanistic, non-newtonian. And just because some people do very bad things doesn't mean their souls are dark. A Light Soul cannot be corrupted (become dark). But a Dark Soul is already corrupt and has been since first creation. Said individuals doing bad things are merely acting out their roles in life as intended by choice according to their charts. Through this they learn things that help advance their soul's growth and potential. Soma must have gotten some serious spiritual knowledge and growth being Dracula for god-knows how many centuries!

Also in terms of sin, Sara couldn't have sinned. She never had the chance to. Walter corrupted her body but she never fully transformed and fed on anyone. A person can only sin if they do-so willingly by choice. Sara was given no choice in that regard so she's an innocent victim in my book.

Interesting fact: Sin is actually a name and not an evil action. Sin is the name of the ancient moon god.

Sin/Nanna
Nationality: Sumerian
Moon god.

For more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_(mythology)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 11:00:52 PM by X »
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Also in terms of sin, Sara couldn't have sinned. She never had the chance to. Walter corrupted her body but she never fully transformed and fed on anyone. A person can only sin if they do-so willingly by choice. Sara was given no choice in that regard so she's an innocent victim in my book.
Its more of  a vampire trope, its seen as a cosmic sort of sin, sort of like super Saiyan  version of  original  sin, as they been born again, by evil.
 This sort of thing has been seen in  Dracula the book and  some other  vampire media

(click to show/hide)

i mean some do have very diffrant veiws on what god is like, some see god as this loveing father. Others see him as a harsh but fair loveing father. And it would be the latter people who think that someone who becomes a vampire after an attack has sined.

I heard that when somehting evil  leaves its mark on a perosn, like make them a vampire.
Its sort like being born again by evil. so even if there still good inside,

there whole being has fliped to unholy. You could say that the victim's  cosmic  body now vibrates at the frequency  that is weak against  the frequency thats seen a holy power


and as for the a soul bing tanted.  I have read may Things. some people say that no you can't others say you can

as places i've read say, if your got by a  something like a vamapire or join evil by choice  Your whole being is born again by evil and your being now  tainted.

I think  there are  degrees. Like Mina could be saved , but I don't think the count could ever be saved as he joined evil by choice, there for his soul is darker then Minas.

he may find  salvation  in death. but that's a maybe.  and of course there are other religions that have there own view on the soul. So its one of those things that up in the air.
But for Sara I think its just one of those tropes that if you become a vampire its a cosmic sin.

The way I see it is
God has not shunned them but sadly  they now  vibrates at the frequency that is weak to holy. But god will end up getting them back so there safe. that's my take on the whole thing.


But like I said there 100000 of ideas about the soul and good vs evil. So its really up to what one wants to think on this matter
As no one really knows.
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Pretty much. It's all up to the person in question and what they feel is true to them.
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Pretty much. It's all up to the person in question and what they feel is true to them.

Well put sir.
 and I really don't think unless IGA comes out and says "hey guys here what happen" I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of it.  But the whole being killed by the Vampire Killer reminds me of those Japanese sword legends. So and here's the thing.

so it seems that  a lot of stuff from all sort of mytholgy has been mashed in. So sadly its up in the air.
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In essence that was what the original CV was; a monster mash-up. Even the newer games still followed that trend but went deeper with it.
"Spirituality is God's gift to humanity...
Religion is Man's flawed interpretation of Spirituality given back to humanity..."

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