Topic: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (1999 Fan Project)

[Foffy]

I think you got most of it. I understand why you would keep things close: you don't want people to get the idea of X boss and it turns it X is missing or something, but probably in more profound concepts and ideas. I was asking largely because this seems very ambitious, and I hope you or those involved don't try to try and aim for far more than what you can reasonably do. It would suck a lot if the project got hindered because of complications in that arena, as that what usually stops a lot of fan projects. I've seen in myself with a few projects I've been involved in.

That and I'm on the hype train of wanting to play it, of course. :3c

You also mentioned 2017. Outside of this obviously being where we'll be in hours, would this be the same window where you believe the development of it will pick up in high gear?

Oh, one more question! Shopkeepers: are they in? ;3

[theplottwist]

I think you got most of it. I understand why you would keep things close: you don't want people to get the idea of X boss and it turns it X is missing or something, but probably in more profound concepts and ideas. I was asking largely because this seems very ambitious, and I hope you or those involved don't try to try and aim for far more than what you can reasonably do. It would suck a lot if the project got hindered because of complications in that arena, as that what usually stops a lot of fan projects. I've seen in myself with a few projects I've been involved in.

This is 1999 Demon Castle War we're talking about. The name alone makes fans shudder and refuse to see a game out of it for many reasons. One in special being that the expectations are so high that they fear that Konami themselves wouldn't live up to the hype -- what to say mere FANS can do it? There are some people who think I'm a complete idiot for even entertaining the idea of giving an interpretation for 1999, and I don't blame them at all. They have nothing more than some concept art and mountains of text to keep them updated.

However, we are confident that even if we don't live up to fans' expectations, we will do something good, because that's where we are putting our mind on, and not on "meeting expectations". If Konami can't meet their fans' expectations, we are not the ones who will promise that.

That's not to say we're not listening, though. We are. We have a couple of "conceptual secret weapons" up our sleeves to achieve the goal. Things that nobody on the entire Castlevania fanbase has realized yet about the 1999 event itself that we have. This may come as an arrogant/extraordinary statement considering how much fans have collectivelly nitpicked the series to death but, if you go some pages back, you'll notice how much research is being done on this, and I assure we have discovered things that we have not seen anyone even mention yet. I've got the support and trust of people who wouldn't even have given me anything but a scoff otherwise, thanks to these "conceptual secret weapons". Some people on this very forum are aware of what I'm talking about (The Bloody Aperture is one of these guys) and have agreed that I should make this information public ASAP, but I'm not doing it because this is what the 1999 hype is about.

Conceptually, we're aiming high, but on the mechanical side we're keeping it realistic. We don't have the time nor the power a big corporation has, but we know how to work things out creatively. We know what the player wants to see because we are also hardcore Castlevania players, and we are looking for the simplest ways to achieve it. We know that to pull off these concepts we don't need Universal Studios assets or funding. It's about doing it right, and not about doing it "grand".

These are also some of the reasons why we're taking so long to show things.

It will take long, we will hit roadblocks, but we're trying our darndest to predict and avoid these right now so, when we begin, things go smoothly.

You also mentioned 2017. Outside of this obviously being where we'll be in hours, would this be the same window where you believe the development of it will pick up in high gear?

Yes, it is. This past year I've spent gaining support and discussing concepts with the team members that have joined the project, beyond of course doing a lot of research and reaching out to people who have important info about the series. This year is when development begins and more tangible results are planned to be shown.

Oh, one more question! Shopkeepers: are they in? ;3

Yes. More than one. And one of them is a returning character in dire need for closure.

[Dracula9]

1. We are in NO WAY underestimating what it takes to create a high-quality game. We have previous experience with game development and we know how hard it is. I may appear to be oversimplifying things, but I'm not. Under every single thing I mentioned here, an ENORMOUS amount of debate and thinking and testing happened.

There really aren't enough ways to describe the sheer reality of this. I've even thrown out the idea of doing parody animations or something of a few of the arguments we've gotten into along the way--some of them are simply so insane and stretched-out that we look back at get a laugh or two out of it.

We've all seen that tip-of-the-iceberg image, but let me provide a modified version to really illustrate what Plot means.

[ProjectDread]

I think I've figured out the big secret PlotTwist is trying to hide:

(click to show/hide)

The Church and / or Belmont Clan are secretly the bad guys

[theplottwist]

I think I've figured out the big secret PlotTwist is trying to hide:

(click to show/hide)

The Church and / or Belmont Clan are secretly the bad guys

HA! Nice try, but nope.

[Shiroi Koumori]

I agree with the image D9 posted.
I know some things beneath the waves but not all of them. Mostly concerning the stuff that plot needs me to translate.

[Chernabogue]

Secrets everywhere!

[SecretWeapon]

Oh my Laura comment was just following up the "come before she does" joke but I'm glad she's in aswell.

-------------------------------------

I think i have said it before but this project is basically the only reason i check the forum. So i wish you luck guys :3

[BLOOD MONKEY]

I know one of the items that are in it. Yay?

[theplottwist]

Hello! Today, the post will be a bit negative. Nothing about the project ITSELF, it is doing fine. It'll be more about an specific criticism I found of my work that is not only unfair -- it is objectivelly incorrect. If you cannot take a bit of vitriol, please ignore.

(click to show/hide)

Walking the internet, I stumbled upon some curious anon posts over 4chan concerning the conceptual sprites used on this project's planning phase. While the anons expressed a dislike over Julius Belmont's design (which I can understand, this happened before and I don't care), I've been accused of "sprite editing." Let me squash this right now and prove objectively that anon doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about:

Here is the page, saved on an archive (which is why I was even able to find it at all). I'll be taking prints from it:
http://4archive.org/board/v/thread/340124469#p340131642

First print:


So, smartass anon (which now I know who it is because he's apparently a complete idiot and spaghetti'ed everywhere) shows up. He thinks the main character conceptual sprites are "sprite edits". Apparently, if I draw Alucard in a way that it is thematically recognizable as Alucard, for instance, then I'm "editing" the original. Please compare Alucard yourself and tell me how "edited" it is to you:



I happened to have one progress sprite, too, as you can see on the print. Alucard not ONCE on the entirety of SotN does a similar pose to this, at all. So I can't even to some sweet ass Frankenspriting. In fact, his entire spritesheet is readily available on the internet so anyone can debunk me right here where the shame will be public. Donoffrio is the one who created Lenora's and Timothy's conceptual sprites. He spent hours tweaking them to my liking, just so some anon who knows not a single thing about sprites could say they are edits.

Anon could've stopped there, but nooo. Anon gets really bold in a really short amount of time:



Anon doesn't not think anymore they could be edits. Now he's absolutelly sure and wonders if the other anon (who can quite clearly see they are not edits) has ever played Castlevania. Because HOW COULD HE NOT SEE they are not edits and that I'm a lazy hack? And it gets worse:



So now anon has resorted to objectivelly pointing out how these sprites were edited and says "some are barely even edited". Well anon, you're wrong. Let's see how your extraordinarily specific claims compare to reality , shall we?

"The first knight only has some spiky shield added."



Look on the entire Castlevania series for a sprite that is the exact same as this one only without the shield. I even put in two process sprites of mine (two of which don't have a shield) to make your work easier. I could compare them myself, but the sheer amount of knight sprites on the series is so incredibly huge the image would not fit on here at all.

But, by all means, find one and debunk me, please.

"The following five sprites don't even seem to be edited at all."



Wow, anon! How could I not tell they're exactly the same!!!!!!

To be fair to our (mentally handicapped) anon, the colors are similar. In some of the sprites the colors are the exact same, even, and this is because at the time I was using similar/same palettes to evoke the similar aesthetic cohesion of the originals. But anon can't even tell apart the Skeletons' skulls. Because his own is too thick.

"The green scorpion tail eye is another typical starting enemy, which he again added spikes to"



In red the Peeping Eyes I made. So, to anon, if you draw a "typical starting enemy", then you're editing sprites. Anon, you need to try harder. This is not the expert analysis I expected from you.

This next one is so out of touch with reality that it's hysterical:

"The dragon heads look identical to the game sprites. The mermen are just colour edits"



CAN'T YOU SEE THEY'RE EDITED?!! No you can't, because they aren't.

"The medusa heads aren't even colour edited?"



Not a single pixel changed at all. And I would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for this meddling anon!

"The wolf is based on the punching wolf (might have a new head?)"



>might have a new head
rarest_pepe.jpg

Anon goes on and on, and gets to compare me to a guy who did use graphics from Order of Ecclesia's Wygol Village to build his own game, which is really deep offense to me, actually, because I did no such thing whatsoever. You may be thinking "Why is PlotTwist paying any attention to what some neckbeard thinks on /v/" but these things actually DO reach me as a pixel-art professional. My clients do question me and do wonder if I'm ripping shit from other games, to which I must offer a lengthy explanation in technical terms why this is not happening. My work has been featured before on places with big audiences. I cannot let any 17-year old idiot say things of this nature and let it slide.

I can take /v/ shitposting, no problem. You can tell me my sprites suck and that I have no imagination, I will try to do better, I really will. You can be relentless on your critique, I can take it like a big boy. But don't accuse me of stealing (oh oh "editing"), or I'll have to debunk your shit to hell and back.

Really, this is a small thing. But it is a small thing that is stored forever on the internet and that, if I could find, others will.

If you, anon who typed this stuff, is reading, then know this: You are not a video game connoisseur because you like shitposting anonymously. You're not a graphics expert (I am). And you have not played Castlevania nearly enough to tell a mere sprite from one another (I did, and I can even tell what sprites you're comparing mine to without you even mentioning them). Ideally, your best bet when you don't know something, is to shut the fuck up.

Although, I have to say, if this guy couldn't tell the difference from my sprites to the official Konami ones (which I adore, as they are works of art whose level I aspire to achieving), then I'm a bit flattered. On that regard, you're welcome, anon.

Closure:

The enemy sprites used here were not even meant to become final Umbra sprites. They were concepts/practices which I quite clearly stated to be recreations here. The objective was to reimagine the enemy in a way it doesn't deviate too much from the originals but still provide something new to look at, hence why you'll notice that my Merman is similar to the original Merman but has a more defined pose, or why palette similarities are present. But are they "edited"? No.

The objective of this post is demonstrate that I won't stand idly to accusations without evidence as small as they may be, and show transparency on my part. These dudes don't come here say this kind of shit to my face, I wonder why would that be.

[Foffy]

If I can offer advice, don't talk anything sincerely on 4chan. It's a vacuum of hostility and anger. One could find something universally cherished and be guaranteed to find four users shit talking it. Worse still, standing up to it is very much like creating a balloon and handing out pins to others: they'll just come and poke further. Get advice (and criticism) from something resembling a static human being, not a number with a post. Those are the only people you'd be able to adequately feedback on your talents and vocation. If they have no name, don't play that game.

I must also say that your ability to really hit the "pulse" of the works you're reflecting shows a willingness to adapt to a "style," which may be why it was incorrectly asserted as sprite editing. They look like sprites I'd actually expect from Konami, and I mean that with utmost praise.

The concept sprites do have me wanting to ask a question in my mind as of late about the game: are there equippable items for the cast, or are they stuck with "static" weapons like Circle of the Moon or Dawn of Sorrow's Julius Mode? I'm super duper curious about what you guys have planned, and if I can be honest, I am probably more hype for this than most games already dated for the coming year. More interesting to me than even HITMAN, and I love that game.

[darkmanx_429]

Yeah bro, save yourself the headache and just don't post on 4Chan.

[theplottwist]

I must also say that your ability to really hit the "pulse" of the works you're reflecting shows a willingness to adapt to a "style," which may be why it was incorrectly asserted as sprite editing. They look like sprites I'd actually expect from Konami, and I mean that with utmost praise.

Thank you, and I agree. Fightining anon is ultimatelly a futile cause. I just gave this guy much more voice than what he'd ever have, but I cannot allow a client of mine to locate this (believe me, they do) and challenge me on unfounded grounds. So here's a response if this ever happens.

The concept sprites do have me wanting to ask a question in my mind as of late about the game: are there equippable items for the cast, or are they stuck with "static" weapons like Circle of the Moon or Dawn of Sorrow's Julius Mode? I'm super duper curious about what you guys have planned, and if I can be honest, I am probably more hype for this than most games already dated for the coming year. More interesting to me than even HITMAN, and I love that game.

I'm fairly certain we won't go back on this, so yes, the characters are stuck with their main weapons. This means that Julius cannot change the Vampire Killer, Lenora cannot change the Belnades Staff, etc.

However, either the characters have more than one weapon, or a different way to use it. If you check Alucard's concept art, you'll notice he's holding a card in one hand, and the spear on the other. The spear is his main weapon, while the card (Sword Card) is the secondary weapon. Julius, also, can use the VK in two different ways (which we dubbed Combat and Platforming modes). I can tell you more through PM, since here is still subject to change.

Plus, there are equips and accessories planned. Character specific equips, too (like in Portrait), and even items that do better with one character than with the other. About the weapons, expect equips that slightly changes their behavior, too.

Yeah bro, save yourself the headache and just don't post on 4Chan.

Thank you for the support, dude. AND you're also correct.

[Shiroi Koumori]

Never ever go to 4chan.

And I love your sprites!

[X]

If 4chan is really that bad, then why doesn't somebody out there in the netherworld of the internet do us a favour and crash the site. Cause it sounds like a haven of haters, trolls, and white knights.