Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: darkwzrd4 on December 06, 2008, 09:32:22 PM
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In all the videogames I've played, Dracula has to be one of the most pathetic.
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Have you ever read Dracula? It's about Love and loss. So blame Bram Stoker. As or him coming back all the time, at least he has a reason, unlike Dr. Wily!
Anyways, I guess thats an alright point, but he's still badass.
Whats so pathetic about Sephiroth? he's awesome
Also, how is this a spoiler??
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The events of Count Dracula's ascension could've been dramatized a lot better and more clearer, but I wouldn't go as far to say he was pathetic.. there's still a lot we don't know about him, particularly his motives during the 12th-14th centuries.
Sephiroth wields his masamune gracefully.
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Whats so pathetic about Sephiroth? he's awesome
He tried to destroy the world just because he found out he was created through experiments instead of being conceived and born the natural way. Come on, that's pathetic! Even if the circumstances of by birth were the same, I wouldn't try to destroy the world. Instead, I would use my superior strength and special abilities to help people.
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In Reply To #2
Actually, I have read Dracula a few times, and I'm pretty sure there was nothing in Bram Stoker's original book about a dead wife, and cursing God etc. I think that was added to the Francis Ford Coppola movie so they could make Dracula a sympathetic character. In the book, you never really find out why/how he became a vampire, and there was no romantic subplot between him and Mina.
But to answer the OP, I think in the early days of the CV series Dracula was a badass villain. I think Dracula has become pathetic over the years as the story has become more convoluted, just because of repetition due to the number of games that are being tied in, and also the muddying of the story. Dracula's existence has been changed to basically "Get resurrected, get defeated immediately by a Belmont, Alucard or some other vampire hunters, go back to the void until the next time he is resurrected and quickly defeated." I think if they went back to Dracula as an evil villain pulling the strings, instead of the hapless villain who just seems to wake up for his obligatory fight with the latest Belmont, he would seem a lot less pathetic.
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The Dracula I'm talking about is the one from the castlevania series not Bram Stoker's book.
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He tried to destroy the world just because he found out he was created through experiments instead of being conceived and born the natural way.
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he woulda kept all the males in his life if he wasn't being a prick. ...great i just made him sound gayer than metroidvanias make him look...
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In Reply To #4
Incorrect. Sephiroth did not try to destroy the world cause he wasn't made naturally.
Sephiroth was taking up the culture of the beings that he was partially made from. He would subdue the planet and use it as his vessel to other worlds, to travel the stars. He assumed his birth right and acted on it.
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Dracula is foolish to think that his wife Elisabetha will agree his revenge against God for taking Elisabetha's life away.
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I think the whole Elisabetha storyline from Lament was a big factor in making him more "pathetic".
Take what little story we have from Dracula's Curse.
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In Reply To #5
You'll notice that TONS of people around here will try to use that damn movie as a literary reference. It's annoying as hell.
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It's only because that movie is so great, the way it portrays Dracula is very widely accepted because it makes him more than just some "bad guy." He has a human side to him thats vulnerable and understandable. (I don't know who wrote that movie, but I like what he did with Dracula.)
Plus, that movie also so flawless in terms of soundtrack, cinematography, mood and so on. We just have to forget that Reeves and Winona are in it!
Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula is my favorite telling of the story.
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Now in Lament, we find out he is doing these things not because of some evil desire for power, but rather because he is angry at God because his wife died.
while the reason for him to go batshit is kinda silly (2 wives died), it's still a lot better than the retarded cliche "i'm evil just because, for the lulz" thing.
also elisabetha's death was only responsible for him becoming immortal. he didn't start attacking humans until in 1470 they went and killed his second wife for no apparent reason. poor dude just wanted revenge and took it too far. :o
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RE: posts #13 and #14
That's what I mean though.
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In Reply To #13
I like the design of Dracula's armor in the movie, as far as I know, the costume designer is a japanese woman(I forgot what her name is).
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In Reply To #15
Adolph Hitler did many GOOD things. Vlad Dracula was a badass as he was keeping one of the most vicious and expansionist armies in the world at that time at bay pretty much on his own AND having to deal with the back stabbing methods of his fellow countrymen. Neither of these men just appeared out of nowhere and said "BOO! BWAHAHAHAH I'M EVIL! IMMA KILL YOU!"
And then you say that Dracula trying to rid the world of humans doesn't fit with him swarming evil monsters all over? Huh? He blamed the death of his first love on God, so he vowed to defy God by never dying. The death of his second love was due to human ignorance so he obtains the power to destroy them. It's actually a pretty logical progression.
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Blue Cheese... I disagree with several of your points.
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In Reply To #18
Hitler did do a great many good things, read a damn book.
And I'm not saying Vlad wasn't absolutely nuts, but he kept his people safe. Mathias's actions also were a bit over the top but damn, he went 400 years without love and snapped, we already know he had a sadistic streak with what he did to Leon. He was power hungry, selfish, and reacts with an exaggerated childishness that is epic in scale.
Yes you just might burn down your own house after getting hurt on you stoop if you were crazy,if there was no one to stop you, had the power to do so and no reason not to do it.
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Dracula's not pathetic, more tragic, as some have said. There are motivations behind his methods and, while they are extreme, they're understandable. They show that he hasn't totally lost his human side entirely and could probably be convinced to go back down that road for the right reasons, should he find something good.
I agree with OP about Sephiroth though. No villain has caused me to roll my eyes more than him. Good god he's an emo kid with a sword. ::)
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In Reply To #19
I'm still not convinced but whatever, everyone's entitled to their opinions.
But since you told me to read a damn book, can you name me five good things that Hitler did?
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At the very least, Hitler pulled Germany out of a hoirrible depression. Not like the good really compares to the evil he did.
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In Reply To #22
Thats true, but that was mainly due to military expansion, the end goal of which was to expand Germany's borders through force. Not sure if I would call that a good thing.
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In Reply To #23
Good and bad are assigned through perspective. Expanding Germany's power was good for Germany. Especially at the time since Germany was basically a broken country. Also keep in mind that the world didn't see it entirely as a bad thing either. When he took Austria and Czechoslovakia no one tried to stop him. Most of Europe didn't even see it as a threat. They saw it as a man who was successfully rebuilding his country. Hitler was even named Man of the Year by Time Magazine because of his efforts to promote peace.
Also keep in mind that Hitler basically invented the highway system and the modern car, and without the war and his push in nationalism, modern science and medicine wouldn't be as advanced as they are today.
Ultimately the good that came from Hitler and WW2 isn't as palpable as the bad, and most of the good was not intended to improve the world in the way it was probably used. But just because Hitler created a staging ground for some horrible things doesn't mean the same wasn't created for positive.
Regarding the topic: Loss is a powerful motivator. It may seem strange for a person to go to such extremes because they lost a loved one, but it happens all the time, especially in fiction. Anakin lost his mother and wife and became Darth Vader. Even in real life people do unimaginable things because of grief. I work in a hospital and I've seen more than one person lose it when they are given bad news about someone they love. It really just depends on the person and how they deal with grief, stress, and loss.
Also keep in mind that Mathias was an instrument of the Church. He believed in God and the Church's goals enough to fight for them, to help lead crusades against those who thought different. This leads me to think he was a zealot. When he returned and his wife was dead by sickness, which was thought beyond the influence of men and in the domain of God, it shattered all of his beliefs. He had done so much for God, yet God still turned his back on him. It seems that was his mindset. And when a zealot loses the beliefs they cling to so closely, they tend to react in extreme ways.
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In Reply To #21
1) He unified the German people and helped them regain their sense of pride
2) Stabilized the German economy and eliminated foreign debt
3) He instituted the standardized schedule
for the German train system and a standardized measurement for rail cars
4) Created the modern autobahn system
5) Encouraged the development of the Volkswagen
6) Instituted the Kindergarten system
7) Encouraged the development of jet aircraft, and rocket development
8) Encouraged the rapid advancement of medical sciences.
9) Instated tobacco free zones and refused to allow pregnant woman to use tobacco rations
10) Was an accomplished artist.
As for Mathias, like it's already been stated, he felt God had betrayed him. That wasn't just a little disappointing. It shook everything that he had ever thought he knew and believed to the core. It shattered his emotional and mental state.
For us that kind of thing would just make us depressed and eat a lot of icecream because, really, what else are we going to do about it? Mathias was able to do something about it.
Also have you never hear the phrase "going postal"? People get pissed at stupid things and go on rampages all the time.
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OK, I guess I see what you guys mean. The wife's death could have set him off and made him snap, and he just got worse from there over time. I do think it would be helpful if they expanded upon his becoming more evil in a future game set between Lament and Dracula's Curse.
Since RPGs that let you be totally evil seem to be all the rage these days, maybe they could make an Oblivion/Fallout 3/Fable/KotOR-style spinoff game where you play as Mathias/Dracula in between Lament and Dracula's Curse, where it shows what happens to him afterward and his descent into becoming more evil. That might be pretty cool (although it might seem too much like a Legacy of Kain ripoff...).
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Have you read Stoker's original novel or seen any of the movies? All this he became a vampire after losing the love of his life is Hollywood, in the original novel Dracula's origins are never explained
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In Reply To #27
Thank you for stating what's been already said twice before.
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Why the whitewashing of motives? The only way to become evil these days is for your parents to abuse you or possibly a loved one to die.
Both Dracula and Sephiroth were probably proud to a fault, and were not experiencing a normal grief reaction, but an egocentric response that many may find it difficult to relate to but which isn't merely 'childish.' Becoming a god, defying God, these are not typical grief reactions. Ah yes, Vader as well. With all his repeated talk about Obi-Wan holding him back, and his occasional skirting of the Jedi mores, selfishness and pride were the initial seed, not grief. This is the way Lucifer was said to have fallen. Should we dismiss the motivation laughingly as an outmoded 'pure evil', or was Lucifer all too human and just too big for his brithces?
When Hector asks Dracula why he started his war, he says nothing about his girlfriend, but something about humanity shunning him. This is consistent with the killing of his girlfriend as a witch, and is deeper than the killing of his girlfriend as a witch. Is society evil for fearing Dracula's withcraft prejudicially? Or is Dracula in fact evil? Probably both.
I conceive of Dracula's war against God as being more than the mere fact of 'living forever.' Probably his assuming the mantle of the 'Lord of the Vampires/Darkness' irks God too...While there is a gap in the timeline I would wager Dracula was up to no good in that timeframe. I'm sure he was doing something of significance, probably which God did not like.
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This whole Dracula being the "Lord of Darkness" is because one simple religious human couldn't deal with the death of his first wife.
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In Reply To #30
How did it feel rushed and thrown together?
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In Reply To #30
How did it feel rushed and thrown together?
The story progresses slowly up until that point. We are given a little at a time about walter, his stone, finally finding sarah building the vk, etc. All of which I thought were very well thought out and well done. Then we kill walter and out of nowhere mathias comes down, Says a few words, goes away and we fight death. I mean it's like Iga ran out of money and was like, alright guys I need a way to end the game in less than 5 minutes, somebody come up with the shortest cheapest answer they can find. for something as epic as the beginning of of a 2000 year struggle against evil the last few cut scenes should have been much more elaborate and drawn out. Maybe with like Leon actually thinking he killed Mathias. Then mathias materializes out of the smoke and escapes or something. It just could have been done so much better with what we are given in the rest of the game. I felt no sympathy for him for one when I got to that point because I knew nothing about his character. other than the fact that he was a whiny brat who threw his religion and entire life away to kill people because his wife died of sickness. Besides if he only wanted to be immortal since mortality is "decread by God" to him what's the point of gaining anymore power? I just don't think the ending was really thought through and was more of a last minute thing because they were running out of money.
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what if he went insane from the loss, not just threw a temper tantrum like some people try to guess?
also leon wouldn't be able to fight him since it'd contradict cv3's "first battle between a belmont and dracula" thing. that was one of the reasons for which legends was kicked out of the timeline.
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In Reply To #33
So change Leon's last name slightly so that the Belmonts were descended from his noble bloodline, man. Would it have killed anyone to think outside the box?
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He wouldn't be a Belmont then. That would diminish his awesomeness.
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Sephiroth sucks.
Dracula..... well I guess he does seem pathetic, trying to destroy the world and losing to a man. ONE MAN! almost every time. Kind of sucks... But then again, I don't want this series to turn into a TBS or RTS or like JRPG, so I'm happy with how it currently is.
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trying to destroy the world and losing to a man. ONE MAN! almost every time.
As if they were just normal people. ::)
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In Reply To #35
That haircut and surcoat combination did more to castrate his awesomeness factor than any name change could have. And then he went and spoke in English, and... well... That was the end of that.
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At least Leon is a real man and didn't chop his dick off.
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Hey, man, Richter felt guilty about being brainwashed by the dark side. Cut him some--! I-I mean, go easy on him. It's not like he went totally off his nut and committed seppuku you know.
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In Reply To #37
It doesn't matter if they are normal or not. The fact is that, he's losing to a person. There are bound to be atleast 20 others with roughly the same amount of power if not more in the world. That's a modest number considering the number of people in the world.
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In Reply To #35
That haircut and surcoat combination did more to castrate his awesomeness factor than any name change could have.
Not as much as the Chronicles remake did to simon though, I mean pink hair? Don't even exist in nature. Didn't know people could die their hair in 1691.
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In Reply To #42
GAH! *shuts eyes and covers ears* I'm not listening! Nope-nope no-o-o! Remake only - Not the set original! Simon's still manly! FEE-GARO! FEE-GARO! FEEEE-GAHH-RRROHHHH!
*hauls-ass like the road runner outta' here*
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Not as much as the Chronicles remake did to simon though, I mean pink hair? Don't even exist in nature. Didn't know people could die their hair in 1691.
I love how people call his hair pink even though it's clearly red. It's always the same crap. "PINK HAIR HURR HURR S&M HURR HURR". So he has red hair. So what? I really don't understand what's so bad about it. Other than the red hair, he's very similar to CV1 Simon.
The shoulder-long hair is probably the issue, but if that's all you're going on when calling someone effeminate, then wow, you must have had some peculiar dates in your life.
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I actually like the Chronicles design for Simon a lot better than the original. At least now he looks a bit more like a nobleman and not a barbarian. I could understand Simon looking like a barbarian if he were the first Belmont(chronologically) in the clan, before they gained their noble status but he isn't so thats why I think the newer design works.
But I do enjoy the CV1 Simon look. It shows just how much more badass Castlevania can be!
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I think we can all agree that as far as strange or unusual looks go, Simon's Judgment duds really can't be topped.
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In Reply To #46
Wrong. Trevor beats him there. He'd rather use leather straps than bandages. :o
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What about Grant? D:
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Guys, guys. Perspective here. I was just talking about Simon's threads, not asking who looked the most ridiculous. We all know Judgment was just a steep downhill plunge in that department anyway.
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Eh, I thought Simon's Judgement outfit wasn't that bad compared to his super-effeminate Chronicles outfit...
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Eh, I thought Simon's Judgement outfit wasn't that bad compared to his super-effeminate Chronicles outfit...
How is it super-effeminate? I'd hate to see how the girls where you live look like.
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In Reply To #51
@Chronicles Simon:
They have outfits like that in Chelsea, NYC.
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In Reply To #52
lolno
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Speaking of pathetic. I sat down to try and finish trevor mode in COD and that mode is insanely pathetic. I have very bad eyesight and can't make out hardly any depth perception. Trevors attacks are slow as shit and his attack radius is garbage. He has a huge fuckin' whip, why can you only hit enemies directly around you? Bullshit. There's also no way to cancel out a combo once you start and it takes a good 3 to 4 seconds before you regain control of him afterwards. I've never finished that mode. I always get so pissed at the horrible programming that I break the controller. This one is about the 4th or 5th one that I've broke because finishing the mode is just sheer luck. CV should always be all about skill. It's like some kind of sick joke. They took everything that made the main game great and flushed it all down the toilet and gave us a turd sandwich. If yall like the mode I respects ya'lls opinion. Not trying to incite anything. Trouble is the last thing I wanna cause, I just don't have patience when it comes to games that require sheer luck. If all I gotta do is buildup my level of skill that's no prob. I'll sit and play for however long it takes to get good, but I have no tolerance for bad programming.
I love how people call his hair pink even though it's clearly red.
(http://castlevania.classicgaming.gamespy.com/characters/charsimon.gif)
I don't know man, looks like pink to me.
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I really like the Trevor Mode in COD. I can't be tired of playing it., Trevor is Just awesome, and his attacks are really welll done.
The shit is when you fight Dracula... not even a little dialogue... oh yes!, there is one! when Dracula transforms and says "Power of Darkness, oooo!!!!" that's all. Not even a "We meet again Vampire hunter" or "I will destroy you again evil!".
NOTHING!
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(http://castlevania.classicgaming.gamespy.com/characters/charsimon.gif)
I don't know man, looks like pink to me.
It's clearly a crappy mistake/archaic thought process on the spriter's part, like Shanoa's brown locks, and Albus' purple pants. Artwork is what you should base your judgement on anyway, and the Chronicles design remains faithful to the original while forging its own identity.
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Dracula is far from pathetic. It wasn't just the loss of his wife. He defended the Church, defended God, and he felt that he was betrayed by God for taking his beloved away from him.
It's like working your ass off at a place for 30 years, until you became the best employee of the lot, and then coming home and finding your boss fucking your wife. If it were me, I'd say "Fuck you, I quit" and I'd try to ruin his business any way I could, just to smite the prick. I don't know if I'd sell my soul and become the lord of Darkness, while simultaneously screwing over all of my friends, but still.
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In Reply To #57
Agreeing here. Most people are just too blind to see the real drama in some things.
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In Reply To #55
*sigh* I've said it before and I ain't never gonna' stop saying it. - Curse of Darkness was not a well planned sequel to Trevor's original outing.
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the Chronicles design remains faithful to the original while forging its own identity.
how? it looks nothing like the previous sprites or artwork. Closest thing it resembles is the haunted castle sprite.
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In Reply To #59
I agree, I think its a shame that a weak game like Curse of Darkness serves as the direct follow-up to Dracula's Curse. I also think that the story aspects of Lament of Innocence and Legends (which I guess has been retconned) have somewhat lessened the importance of Trevor's adventure which, when it was released, was supposed to be the origin of the Belmont vs Dracula Castlevania story.
I guess I'm just biased because Dracula's Curse is my personal favorite, but I would have preferred it if they hadn't lessened the importance of Trevor's adventure with the plots of other installments, and with a mediocre "sequel" like Curse of Darkness.
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how? it looks nothing like the previous sprites or artwork. Closest thing it resembles is the haunted castle sprite.
(http://old-wizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/simonbelmont.gif)
(http://images.forbiddenplanet.com/image/detail/1466553.jpg)
You seem to have forgotten about about Simon's sword, furry leather boots, tight leather shorts, silver belt, tie-up-from-the-middle top, and studded leather arm thing.
EDIT: Both also have red tunics.
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(http://old-wizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/simonbelmont.gif)
(http://images.forbiddenplanet.com/image/detail/1466553.jpg)
You seem to have forgotten about about Simon's sword, furry leather boots, tight leather shorts, silver belt, tie-up-from-the-middle top, and studded leather arm thing.
EDIT: Both also have red tunics.
Yeah I'm just not seeing it. They're both wearing leather and part of their clothes are red but aside from that I can't see any similarities.
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In Reply To #63
...I listed the similarities, and if you can't see them, then something must be wrong with you...
Do I need to circle them in MS Paint or something?
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I think the specific articles they are wearing are similar, its just two very different art styles. One is more of the Conan look, a grizzled warrior-looking guy. The other uses that bishonen art that has become commonplace to the series: androgynous facial features, flamboyant costume details like the high-heels and fur accents, and exaggerated hair colors (in this case, pinkish).
So I guess when looking at a small 2D sprite on a screen, you really can't tell much of a difference (except for the pink hair), they pretty much look the same. I think its just the concept art where the two look completely different.
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In Reply To #64
Not to mention they both have one shoulder exposed, and one covered.
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(in this case, pinkish).
>:|
It's clearly red. I hate it when people say his hair is pink. It's as if they are color-blind.
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In Reply To #67
People say its pinkish because it doesn't look like a natural hair color. It may be closer to "red" than pink, but its not "red" in the way that natural hair is red. Look at the color of the guy's hair on your avatar. Can you honestly say that looks like a normal head of red hair? It looks like a color that a girl would dye it if she was going for a punk thing. So to represent that over-the-top, unnatural hair color, people say its pink.
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In Reply To #68
That, and the sprite's hair is pink.
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People say its pinkish because it doesn't look like a natural hair color.
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In Reply To #70
OK, then in the picture above. Its not red hair in the Carrot Top sense, its an unnatural color that you could only get out of a women's hair dye bottle. So I think when people call it "pink", they're really just trying to quickly describe the unnatural, exaggerated red color. I don't care really, the hair color goes with that particular art style, just trying to explain why some people would characterize his hair as "pink". The actual color may be red, but its not hair that any man would have, particularly one from the 1600s. Thats all I'm saying.
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In Reply To #63
...I listed the similarities, and if you can't see them, then something must be wrong with you...
Do I need to circle them in MS Paint or something?
uh those items don't look similar, at all. You just basically listed that each version wears items that would be necessary for the time period. The items don't resemble one another at all. It's like saying I'm similar to you because I wear shoes and a leather belt too when I go out.
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In Reply To #72
Your example is flawed. Because in this case it would be you and him having blue shoes, a leather belt, a red tie, black gloves, and a top hat all in common. The two designs don't simply have just two or three similarities.
I cant really judge if youre being intentionally short sighted for an attempted troll or if you really don't see it. If you honestly don't see it, your highest career aptitude may be akin to assembling plastic toys in a dirty factory all your life. And no, you wont get your own tv show about you and your family, along with random, but epic, musical segments.
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In Reply To #72
To add to what uzo said...
(http://i44.tinypic.com/5fnask.jpg)
Note: CV1 Simon's tunic is circled twice due to the tie-up-from-the-middle.
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Just because it's not natural, carrot-red doesn't make the color not red. Natural, carrot-red is more like orange, while Simon's hair is flaming red. Pink is a different color.
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OK, from now on when describing Simon's hair from that picture, instead of using the term "pink", I will instead say that its a "strange, unnatural, straight out of the punk girl's L'Oreal bottle, inexplicably exaggerated flaming RED". Thanks for the correction guys.
I do agree that both versions of Simon have all the same costume elements: red tunic, fur on the boots, armband, belt, one shoulder uncovered, etc. I think they just look incredibly different because of the art styles. One is a dead-ringer for Conan the Barbarian, the other looks like a transvestite at a Halloween party.
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In Reply To #76
::) ::)
His hair is red. It doesn't matter if it's unnatural IRL. It's natural for Simon, and it's fantasy.
And about the transvestite comment, you're just as silly as the rest of the people who complain about his design. I really don't see why people call Simon girly or a transvestite. Just because he doesn't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, it doesn't mean he isn't manly. He has big muscles and a fierce, serious face. It annoys me when I see these half-assed, biased, and hypocritical complaints pop up.
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In Reply To #77
People call him girly because thats what the art style depicts him as. He is purposely drawn to appear androgynous and also to appear as a youthful teen. That is the style that is popular in Japan, so I understand why they use it. Nothing wrong with it, thats just the art style the series uses now. But whether you like one design or the other, it is clear that the "Conan-Simon" has more masculine features than the other design.
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In Reply To #78
It's just that people always call Simon girly, yet say nothing about Trevor, Leon, or Richter. He gets called girly more often than Juste, and that's just flat out wrong in so many ways. I never see anyone call SotN Richter a silly pirate, or call Leon Tidus. Simon, Trevor, and DXC Richter are Kojima's manliest characters. The complaints are half-assed, biased, and hypocritical.
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In Reply To #79
No I'm with you there, I think Leon, Richter, Juste, they all pretty much look girly in the same way Simon does, and some look even more so. Again, I think its just the art style the series has now, the men are drawn to look that way.
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instead of using the term "pink", I will instead say that its a "strange, unnatural, straight out of the punk girl's L'Oreal bottle, inexplicably exaggerated flaming RED".
oh boy, then the n64 games, dos and pork will make you commit suicide. there's bright blue hair, blue, purple, flaming red (!) etc.
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In Reply To #81
I think the N64 games were slightly more forgivable than console games of today because the graphical limitations on the system made it impossible to make realistic looking characters, they had to look blocky and cartoony.
As for Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of ruin, yeah, I'm not a fan of the art style of those games. I'll take the effeminate look of Simon/Leon/etc. over the foolish cartoon anime.
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Face it, Swapper, Chronicles simon looks like his outfit was designed for a woman. Juste and Leon might not look the most masculine, but at least they dress manly while Simon wears the trannie boa and hooker boots.
Judgement's redesign is more manly than Chronicle's design, TBH.
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Crotch and neck tattoos and studded, chest bearing open jackets are manly?
Judgment Simon looks like he's a stripper from some bar with a name like The Rectum.
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In Reply To #83
Yes, hooker boots. ::)
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Conan Simon doesn't have ponted toe boots. ::)
Tattoos aside, at least Judgement Simon looks like a man, unlike Chronicles Simon.
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In Reply To #86
but judgement's simon also has fabulous red hair and androgynous face. :o
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Here's what I'd like to see a Belmont look like in a future game, just for the sake of trying something new:
1. Manly facial features: thick jaw, beady eyes, grizzled face.
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In Reply To #88
So, you want the Belmonts to look like generic mideval warriors? That's not something new. Not at all. It's pretty damn boring, really. It's also an image that died out in the 90s. Mideval warriors don't work in this day and age.
Also...
not because it looks all cool and emo
UGH! Why did you have to use "emo"?! *repeatedly bangs head on desk*
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In Reply To #89
Well, I'd prefer they looked like generic medieval warriors than generic Japanese manga characters. After all, the Belmonts... ARE medieval warriors.
And I use the word "emo" because thats exactly what the characters' hairstyles look like. If you can think of a better word to describe them I'd love to hear it.
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if you want a real emo, look no further than portrait. :o
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In Reply To #90
...long hair is emo? Hot damn, I didn't know old-school Simon and Christopher were emos!
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3259/byzzi78024902wd1.jpg)
I've yet to see a Castlevania character with the emo haircut as seen here.
Oh wait, there was one. The 'manly' Judgment Simon.
The Belmonts aren't medieval warriors, no more than Bill Rizer is a Vietnam war veteran or Solid Snake is a resistance member from a post-apocalyptic future. Simon's garb was based off Conan, which was...prehistorical. I love the old-school Simon, but his design died out when video games shed having to rip-off films of the time. Bill Rizer is decked out in futuristic space marine armor; Snake has the sneaking suit; Simon has gothic wear.
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In Reply To #92
I'm not saying they should go back to the Conan clone look. But they can make him look different from Conan and unique without the femininity and flamboyance that you see in the Judgment and Chronicles designs. I just wouldn't mind seeing a design that actually looks something like what a warrior from the 1600's would look like.
And just one more quick thing: in the original Castlevania, wasn't Simon's hair and outfit brown, not red?
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That picture reminds me of Judgment Simon.
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Enough with this emo shit. People overuse the word emo so much it's losing its meaning, and generally everything that points to someone being a pretty boy is now emo. If a guy is slightly femenine he's emo. If his hair is slightly longer than the general length, he's emo. I'm not fond of the general, typical emo look myself, but at least I'm staying true to what really IS the emo look. I've never encountered anyone in the Castlevania series looking emo. Femenine, yes. Gothic, yes, but never emo. An emo is a variant of punk rocker, and Castlevania isn't very ''punkish'' to me.
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In Reply To #72
To add to what uzo said...
(http://i44.tinypic.com/5fnask.jpg)
Note: CV1 Simon's tunic is circled twice due to the tie-up-from-the-middle.
Yeah I noticed that and uzo don't be stereotypical man. I've just started going to medschool to be an assistant surgeon. Judging somebodies entire aptitude based off of one observation. Man that's trolling right there. But like I said before, I think it's more of a case of being similar by coincidence because those elements are necessary for the time period.
In Reply To #77
People call him girly because thats what the art style depicts him as. He is purposely drawn to appear androgynous and also to appear as a youthful teen. That is the style that is popular in Japan, so I understand why they use it. Nothing wrong with it, thats just the art style the series uses now. But whether you like one design or the other, it is clear that the "Conan-Simon" has more masculine features than the other design.
exactly.
Face it, Swapper, Chronicles simon looks like his outfit was designed for a woman. Juste and Leon might not look the most masculine, but at least they dress manly while Simon wears the trannie boa and hooker boots.
I agree, if I was a newcomber to the series I'd think that simon was a chick.
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"They're the same damn boots as CV1 Simon but with heels."
I don't really agree with that either.
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I agree, if I was a newcomber to the series I'd think that simon was a chick.
I don't understand how people could possibly misstake Chronicles Simon for a girl. It's not the face or hair that defines the gender - it's the body. Does his body look femenine? Not really. He's broadbacked and pretty hunky. Only a blind moron would misstake him for a girl.
Even if Chronicles Simon has furry ''hooker boots'', Conan Simon has an armor plate covering his balls and a bandana looking like a tiara. If you look closey, you can find something gay about pretty much anything ;)
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The "Armor plate covering his balls" is part of that style of armor. EVen the original Conan had armor like that. It's there to protect against castration. Nothing really gay about that.
As for the tiera, that is a little gay. However, Marth (Fire Emblem) has a Tiera, and we know for a fact he isn't gay (If anything, he's got a sister complex).
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I think it's more of a case of being similar by coincidence because those elements are necessary for the time period.
What?! Coincidence?! How? They're the same character. Do you have common sense? It's a faithful redesign. Also note that Kojima isn't good at giving characters clothes that fit in the time period.
I agree, if I was a newcomber to the series I'd think that simon was a chick.
I don't understand how people could possibly misstake Chronicles Simon for a girl. It's not the face or hair that defines the gender - it's the body. Does his body look femenine? Not really. He's broadbacked and pretty hunky. Only a blind moron would misstake him for a girl.
Also, if you're going to call Chronicles Simon gay or something(which is a silly thing to call him anyway), please note that CV1 Simon shows more skin. ;) :P
The only feminine things about Chronicles Simon are his face, and only his nose and chin are "feminine".
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In Reply To #100
And the hooker boots. Don't forget the hooker boots.
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In Reply To #101
::) ::) ::)
They aren't hooker boots.
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In Reply To #102
Oh yeah, those finished pointy-toed high-heeled fur-lined boots arn't hooker boots. And Jonathan Morris doesn't have Emo bangs. ::)
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In Reply To #103
You sure are stereotypical.
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Moving on to another similarity, the fact that both Simons have a bare right shoulder.
The Conan-Simon is wearing a breastplate with left shoulder pauldron, which is appropriate armor for the time period. The right pauldron is missing, however. We can assume this is because it was lost or damaged in battle, or Simon in acquiring armor for his adventure wasn't able to get a breastplate with both shoulder pauldrons intact.
The Chronicles-Simon is not wearing a breastplate with shoulder pauldrons, but instead he is wearing some kind of apparel with a fur (feathers?) covering of the left shoulder, and that attaches at the collar of his neck in a stylish buckle. The right shoulder is left bare, not because a piece of the armor is missing, as is the case with Conan-Simon, but instead its because that's what the outfit is designed to look like. We can only assume that the fashion designer responsible for Chronicles-Simon's outfit left that spot bare intentionally, because Simon's right shoulder is just too damn sexy to be hidden from the world.
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One Simon is wearing metal wrist guards, which are armor designed to protect the forearms from attack. The other Simon is wearing long fingerless black leather gloves that extend up the forearm and end in an oversized cuff. These are obviously designed to... umm... look fabulous..? :-\
I will say that the tiara that Conan-Simon is wearing does look a little silly. I'm just glad she left that out when adapting the look for Chronicles. If you were to put a tiara on the head of Chronicles-Simon, he really would look like he's auditioning for the Village People.
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I don't understand how people could possibly misstake Chronicles Simon for a girl. It's not the face or hair that defines the gender - it's the body. Does his body look femenine? Not really. He's broadbacked and pretty hunky. Only a blind moron would misstake him for a girl.
Guess you've never seen women like this (http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/muscular-woman.jpg) before. Women can have muscles too man. Not all of them look like this (http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_02/LaurenBailey5EN_468x398.jpg). You need to get out more man. I don't know why people think only men can be muscularly fit. Anybody can have toned muscles, and some women like men are born with alot of strength. Not all women look like the hollywood stereotype, in fact only 9% to be exact.
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Guess you've never seen women like this (http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/muscular-woman.jpg) before. Women can have muscles too man. Not all of them look like this (http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_02/LaurenBailey5EN_468x398.jpg). You need to get out more man. I don't know why people think only men can be muscularly fit. Anybody can have toned muscles, and some women like men are born with alot of strength. Not all women look like the hollywood stereotype, in fact only 9% to be exact.
Haha, I never said all women are basically skeletons with skin. I never said women can't have muscles. I'm just saying women with the same ammounts of muscles as Chronicles Simon has is... very unusual.. don't you think? thus making Chronicles Simon look like a man - not a girl.
I'm not sure what planet you're from, but if I were to ''get out more'' as you're suggesting I should, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't see women like that, walking down the streets.
(http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/muscular-woman.jpg)
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Haha, I never said all women are basically skeletons with skin. I never said women can't have muscles. I'm just saying women with the same ammounts of muscles as Chronicles Simon has is... very unusual.. don't you think? thus making Chronicles Simon look like a man - not a girl.
I'm not sure what planet you're from, but if I were to ''get out more'' as you're suggesting I should, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't see women like that, walking down the streets.
(http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/muscular-woman.jpg)
never said that, just emphasizing that only a small percentage look like what hollywood thinks they should and that percentage skyrockets downward as you increase the age factor.
I'm just saying women with the same ammounts of muscles as Chronicles Simon has is... very unusual.. don't you think? thus making Chronicles Simon look like a man
And the belmonts would be unusual, they're trained from birth to kill supernatural beings with crazy strength. You couldn't be a stick or you wouldn't last 5 minutes. If you rely on your own physical strength like belmonts do you have to be able to match them blow for blow.
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never said that, just emphasizing that only a small percentage look like what hollywood thinks they should and that percentage skyrockets downward as you increase the age factor.
I wasn't trying to insult you or anything with the planet thing :P All I meant is that a woman as hunky and Chronicles Simon would be so rare, so you'd make the assumption it's a man, not a girl. At least I would.
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http://castlevania.armster.org/artbook/artbook09.jpg
http://castlevania.armster.org/artbook/artbook10.jpg
There's no way someone could think Simon was a woman at first sight unless some very strange standards were involved. It's also silly to bring all of these things up. Has there been a single bulky woman like that in a video game or even an anime?
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Has there been a single bulky woman like that in a video game or even an anime?
(http://serio.piiym-net.com/image/10_sei_ika_s.png)
yeah it's real and from a game. :o
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In Reply To #112
It's still ridiculous and pathetically desperate to bring something like that into this kind of arguement.
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i just posted that to prove you that there are bulky he-man type girls in video games. :o
i'm sure animu has some like that too, but then again i don't watch it that much anymore.
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Operation by Milton Bradley doesn't count as a medical degree, Last Belmont.
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In Reply To #115
I don't see what that has to do with anything...
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In Reply To #116
You obviously haven't been paying attention.
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In Reply To #117
I've been paying enough attention to know that nothing TLB has said would need a medical degree for credibility.
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In Reply To #118
(http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/19.gif)
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(http://serio.piiym-net.com/image/10_sei_ika_s.png)
yeah it's real and from a game. :o
...oh dear god I'm scared D:
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Operation by Milton Bradley doesn't count as a medical degree, Last Belmont.
man you askin' for it now. What the hell is your problem? Do you like being punched in the face?
In Reply To #117
I've been paying enough attention to know that nothing TLB has said would need a medical degree for credibility.
that was directed at uzo who likes being an ass for no reason.
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Do you like being punched in the face?
dayum dude, you learned the ancient martial art of punching through the internets too? ;D
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man you askin' for it now. What the hell is your problem? Do you like being punched in the face?
lolinternet threats
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dayum dude, you learned the ancient martial art of punching through the internets too? ;D
hellz yeah boi!!!, my super diabolical devastating ancient chinese fatality punches'll punch through anything. Cyberspace, no problem. ;)
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In Reply To #111
Yes, watch "Hunter X Hunter."
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In Reply To #125
Ok, but it still doesn't prove anything.
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I never said it did. I was just saying that that show has a bulky woman in it. Which is of course, in reply to your question of asking if any video game or anime had bulky women in it.
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I don't think the argument was whether people mistake Chronicles-Simon for a woman. I think the argument was whether Chronicles-Simon looks effeminate, which its pretty clear he does, and whether Chronicles-Simon has a more manly appearance than Conan-Simon, which its pretty clear he doesn't.
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Swapper also claims that Chronicles Simon looks more manly than Judgment Simon...
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In Reply To #129
He does, and it's not just me. Azmodan already proved you wrong. Stop being an idiot.
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In Reply To #130
I think Chronicles Simon and Judgment Simon are a toss-up, they both look pretty dandy in their own way.
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In Reply To #130
I think Chronicles Simon and Judgment Simon are a toss-up, they both look pretty dandy in their own way.
Judgment Simon is gay like a professional wrestler. Chronicles Simon is gay like a late night trannie. Which is more manly again?
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In Reply To #132
Wut? I'm just going to ignore you, now. Stereotypical people like you get on my nerves.
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In Reply To #133
Oh, yeah, like hooker boots and tight black leather DOESN'T make you look gay. As in FABULOUS~! gay, at that.
And Judgment Simon really, REALLY looks like he's trying to get into the WWE.
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In Reply To #133
Oh, yeah, like hooker boots and tight black leather DOESN'T make you look gay. As in FABULOUS~! gay, at that.
And Judgment Simon really, REALLY looks like he's trying to get into the WWE.
You're pretty much being as unreasonable as someone who were to say blonde people with blue eyes are swedish.
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It's "If the Boot Fits" reasoning. It worked for centuries, it can work here too.
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In Reply To #124
Id advise you go back to playing Trauma Center and pretending to be a doctor. Fighting games are out of your league.
Now Im curious where Mobius is. Shouldnt he be sticking up for tranny rights?
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*walks in zipping up leather pants*
EDIT: Please remember we have some younger forum members browsing here too. Try to keep the graphic comments to a minimum.
Thanks for your cooperation. It is appreciated.
*blinks*
Oh... Never mind. *turns around and leaves* Uzi there made it sound like something interesting was going down. He hee. - Going down. ^_^
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...Goddamnit... And I thought Mobius was a chick this entire time...
...I... Oh god... OH GOD!!
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...Goddamnit... And I thought Mobius was a chick this entire time...
...I... Oh god... OH GOD!!
Even when the avatar looks suspiciously like Denise Richards?
Oh, and for my two pence on the original topic: Dracula is not pathetic, he must get defeated constantly in order for the player to actually complete the game and have a sense of achievement. How would you feel if he teleported away every time you got that final hit from 1986 'til now?
And lastly, anyone saying Sephiroth is pathetic needs to try and wield a Nodachi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodachi) with one hand!
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In Reply To #139
*hands you a plastic barf bucket*
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In Reply To #140
Ho! If that had been Drac's final move in the last twenty-plus years, I would've chucked my controller against a wall and given up on the series long ago. T'would not be the first time I shouted "COWARD!" to the screen either. All simply because in my mind, this last-second cop-out move would seem less a means of keeping the series going and more like some empty gimmick to leave all of us waiting for some big, dynamic showdown someday. - Which Igarashi-sama would probably be too unsure of at this point to deliver.
At any rate, yes it goes to show that Dracula really isn't as poor a villain as some give him credit for. At the very least, he fights to the finish. With the only exception really being his first confrontation with Christopher.
*looks around*
By the by, it took this long for someone to censor me? Man, I'm impressed. I've done s*** on this site that would have made pedophile priests puke and call me a blasphemer. Wow, somebody finally raised the red flag on the redhead. Tee-hee! I's flattered.
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You all seem to be missing my point. I realize that both Dracula and Sephiroth are powerful enemies, but when I say that they are pathetic, I mean psychologically. Which I have explained in the first post. It's fine if you disagree with me, but I'm asking you to look at the facts I've presented and see if you could get where I'm coming from. You all are welcome to your opinions, but I thought this would be an excellent topic to discuss. Maybe I should have posted this in the hardcore gaming area instead of the area for General Castlevania Dicussion.
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You all seem to be missing my point.
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In Reply To #143
I see your point as well. We just seem to differ on how we view it. What would indeed look to you like psychological weakness, I look at simply as more of a single-minded resolve. The kind brought upon by rage so unfathomable that it could make a man give up his own soul and turn to an evil that consumed, transformed, and ultimately became him. Yes, I realize it would take a stronger mind and greater will to overcome such fury, so Drac and Sephie are effective failures in the whole Resisting The Dark Side department. In my estimation though, some of the most powerful villains -- and sometimes a few heroes -- have to fall in order to rise up as something truly great.
And... I can't believe that I am defending both Dracula and Sephiroth, of all silvery-haired lunatics, here in the same post... But personally -- personally, mind you -- until I (A) am so driven by pain and angst that I renounce god and everything holy to give myself fully over to darkness, effectively becoming the being opposite to god, or(B) find out that I am in fact the result of some morbidly perverse science experiment to perfect the ultimate warrior, I think I'm going to reserve judgment on how pathetically weak-minded others are.
....Hell, if we were to use me (my namesake, that is) in the context of this topic... It could be said that I myself am the more pathetic example of badness here.
- Let's see here, I am a two-thousand-plus year-old demon that was molded into female form by the underworld hierarchy with the express purpose of tempting and seducing the man known as the christ on earth. But I failed, was sentenced to be obliterated from existence, and picked up by a former high-ranking demon official now in league with the opposing dominion. Y'all would know him as Sulaco, yes? Well, he took me in and guided the only instincts I had been created with towards a more personally fulfilling outlet; killing, seducing, betraying and destroying for me and no one else. See, in a way I enjoyed what I do seeing as how pleasure was one of the things I had been made for. But all that I am, all that I do, is in the end just the result of how I was designed. Not one of my actions are made from choice. I have no choices; no free will. I do what I do because that's what I was made for. Heh, let's see Dracula or some long-haired momma's boy top that for pathetic.
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I quote myself.
Dracula never did something so important to be THE LORD OF DARKNESS.
He's just a weak vampire who make walachians life a little funnier each 100 years.
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By the by, it took this long for someone to censor me? Man, I'm impressed. I've done s*** on this site that would have made pedophile priests puke and call me a blasphemer. Wow, somebody finally raised the red flag on the redhead. Tee-hee! I's flattered.
What did you say, exactly? I probably shouldn't ask that I must admit my curiosity has gotten the better of me.
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In Reply To #147
Removed by moderation for a reason buddy ;)
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I wasn't saying she had to repost it, she more then likely could've gotten away with a brief and heavily 'censored' summary, or even a PM of the posts contents.
Either way, as a Dracula related topic I must say this is failing quite horribly, not that I'm helping matters at all. Pages upon pages on Simon's pink hair and tranny boots/boa?
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Welcome to Gattaca, son. 8)
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I wasn't saying she had to repost it, she more then likely could've gotten away with a brief and heavily 'censored' summary, or even a PM of the posts contents.
First off, I'm pretty sure Mobius is a male. Secondly, if you want to know what was edited out, perhaps you could send Mobius a Private Message requesting the information you seek. ;)
Asking him to reiterate what was edited out in the same thread is obviously going to be tantamount to further editing out of the same content. That's just common sense. :P