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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: cecil-kain on December 25, 2010, 12:56:22 AM

Title: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: cecil-kain on December 25, 2010, 12:56:22 AM
Comments welcome.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 25, 2010, 01:22:48 AM
oh man I could see this turn into a bash-fest real fast.


I say let Cox/MercurySteam handle the consoles & IGA should worry about the portables.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Rugal on December 25, 2010, 01:49:32 AM
Cox destroyed a 24 year legacy.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 25, 2010, 02:03:34 AM
Let IGA work on the other timeline. I see no problem with having 2 stories coexist simultaneously.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Kingshango on December 25, 2010, 02:29:27 AM
Let him continue work on the other timeline on the handheld/ digital distrubution front and let Cox and Mercurysteam deal with the big budget console alt universe.

Two timeline's, two development teams, more Castlevania's, everyone is happy. :)



Unless one of the timeline's get sent to the back old Yeller style by Konami......... :(
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Koutei on December 25, 2010, 02:30:11 AM
He should leave Konami, and make Nanosaga-Judgment.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Kale on December 25, 2010, 03:07:19 AM
I chose the second, but I would much rather prefer one that says "he should pay me to design a new game"
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: C Belmont on December 25, 2010, 03:22:00 AM
After OOE I don't get the feeling that Iga has much more to offer the timeline...  & I could use someone to shine my shoes ;D
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on December 25, 2010, 06:03:17 AM
I chose slot number 1. He sould leave Konami and do his own thing. I'd be good for him and good for Castlevania.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: CristopherLee on December 25, 2010, 08:50:39 AM
I feel the obligation to take slot number 4  :P
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Munchy on December 25, 2010, 08:55:52 AM
I guess my mind was violated by a dark priest because none of these apply. I'd say give the guy more time/budget to work with. (Though I'm not against a 1999 game either.)
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: shelverton. on December 25, 2010, 12:00:33 PM

People still seem to forget that Cox will not "take over" the series. So the term Coxlevania is very temporary. He will probably make one more game and that's it.

I say let IGA finish his own timeline, and then let someone else take over. We don't know who it will be, all we know is that it probably won't be Dave Cox.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Reinhart77 on December 25, 2010, 03:54:56 PM
i want to him always be hanging around and make the occasional CV game.  but i also want to see new teams takes on the series.  i just wish new teams' games could be made to "fit" in the canon somehow (not LoS though or any of its sequels, its too late for that now).  it seems like they'd need Iga's permission to do this, so I at least want them to work with Iga a little bit just so their ideas don't derail the whole timeline.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: thernz on December 25, 2010, 04:08:14 PM
He should leave Konami, and make Nanosaga-Judgment.
Everyone's dream come true.

I'd like to see a game where he's actually the director again. Then if that game's actually good then oh hey cool. Otherwise, we make him shave his beard.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Ahasverus on December 25, 2010, 04:22:40 PM
Give someone else the old saga, keep Mercury with the "cinematic" one. Fire IGA that man ran out of ideas since it's second game, they are well executed and his games are very good (or garbage, the last ones) but he has no ambition, no intention for the saga to have sense, to evolve, to change in any way onto the new trends of storytelling quality and gameplay, I'm just tired of playing a game with mehcanics of 1997. If it was in my hand, I would fire IGA (of the saga of course, he's fine with his other work: LOVE SIMULATORS and SCROLL SHOOTERS - prime genres they are - ) and I woulg get an ambitious fan team to work in the old timeline, erasing some games from it and reboot it... but from the old prespective.

The 1999 game can wait, IGA wouldn't make it justice.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 25, 2010, 05:09:38 PM
Lemme revise my previous statement. Let MercurySteam/Cox continue the console saga ONLY IF they decide to draw REAL inspiration from the old games and stop adding unnecessary Shadow of the Collosus/Uncharted elements. As good as LoS was it was just a bit too foreign for the series, and I sincerely think if IGA was on board the game would have benefited from his advice on what makes Castlevania Castlevania.

I would love to hear/read Kouji's opinion on LoS. I'm sure he'd agree that the soundtrack was shit too (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Flaugh.gif&hash=774571b7b8ce6b03f73d9ef2c58fd220ce38cf76)
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: CristopherLee on December 25, 2010, 06:28:18 PM
Quote
Lemme revise my previous statement. Let MercurySteam/Cox continue the console saga ONLY IF they decide to draw REAL inspiration from the old games and stop adding unnecessary Shadow of the Collosus/Uncharted elements. As good as it was LoS didn't feel like a "true" Castlevania game, and I sincerely think if IGA was on board the game would have benefited from his advice on what makes Castlevania Castlevania.

I would love to hear/read Kouji's opinion on LoS. I'm sure he'd agree that the soundtrack was shit too

I really don't want to enter i that debate again, but...

Shadow of the Colossus? That game is more than 4 years old. And there are only THREE titans in LoS.

Uncharted elements? Why? Because the main character can jump? C'mon, pal. I played 3D plataformers since "Pandemonium".

What exactly makes Castlevania Castlevania? I never had that "magical feeling" playing LoI. I only feel boredom.

Mercury Steam don't need the advice of Igarashi. David Cox don't needs the advice of Igarashi. The opinion of that guy is not more valid for me than the opinion of any other fanboy. He can say whatever he wants.

And Oscar Araujo music is not SHIT. It is quite repetitive? True. But that's not a fault of Araujo and the magnificient partitures he wrote. Actually, most of the themes are great neoclassical pieces. In my opinion, you shouldn't call it SHIT.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Hanniballistic on December 25, 2010, 06:31:54 PM
I'm sorry, but I love IGA and his work.  Sorry it's not epic enough for some of you but it's fine for me.  None of his games are perfect, but then again, what game IS?  Alot of companies don't make games like Castlevania anymore, and we should all be lucky that IGA is over there championing the series and giving us anything at all.  As far back as I can remember, all of his games got plenty of critical praise in the gaming press and the only people that get outraged are people here.  I get it, though, WE are the true fans so we can point out every flaw, and blame IGA-the-scapegoat.  At the end of the day, it's all business people.  IGA is putting out a game to make money for Konami.  

Have you all been sitting here for the past decade cursing IGA?  If he's been the showrunner for that long, and you despise his work, WHY are you a fan?  Seriously, I'm curious.

I think I will write a piece on why I like the series, because I don't know if I come across as this crazy IGA-defender (I like almost all the entries in the series, my favorite having nothing to do with IGA) because I'm not.  It just sucks to see almost every thread turn into an IGA-bashfest.  I think at this point we all know who likes and dislikes him.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Hanniballistic on December 25, 2010, 06:40:40 PM
I really don't want to enter i that debate again, but...

Shadow of the Colossus? That game is more than 4 years old. And there are only THREE titans in LoS.

And Oscar Araujo music is not SHIT. It is quite repetitive? True. But that's not a fault of Araujo and the magnificient partitures he wrote. Actually, most of the themes are great neoclassical pieces. In my opinion, you shouldn't call it SHIT.

The Shadow of the Colossus comparisons are valid, like you said, they don't take up the whole game but they are similar enough to say, "this feels familiar..."

I agree with CristopherLee, I don't think Araujo's music is bad at all.  It's kind of a slap to the face to call his music shit when it's actually quite beautiful.  Maybe it wasn't used well in the game but the music itself is very good.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: CristopherLee on December 25, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Quote
Have you all been sitting here for the past decade cursing IGA?  If he's been the showrunner for that long, and you despise his work, WHY are you a fan?  Seriously, I'm curious.

I wasn't aware of Mr. Igarashi existence. I discover his name like one year ago or so. Until then I was simply surprised because my favorite videogame saga was transformed into crap. Sorry for the bad word.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 25, 2010, 07:06:55 PM
In Reply To #16,

Thank you for your comments :)

I'm not gonna sit here and explain to you what makes an ideal Castlevania game, but myself & others across the internet agree that LoS was closer in design to several series other than Castlevania (although it did do its best to retain that classic feel, especially after Ch. 4). Remember the tagline "forget everything you know?" But it's still a great game nonetheless.

Apparently MS needed Kojima's advice, a guy that's never even worked on a Castlevania game, so why is it outlandish for them to have brought IGA on board as well? Your hate for IGA a man you discovered only recently is so apparent it's funny.

and uhh sorry if I offended you or anyone else by insulting LoS' lame music  :-[ I don't want a Hollywood-esque score in my castlevania plz


P.S.- Pandemonium isn't that old of a game. I've been playing platformers since they started btw.


EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0D2HgBjXiM&feature=related

Best song in the entire game
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: SIRHardle on December 25, 2010, 07:26:24 PM
Sometime it really scares me the "lack" of criticism that hovers around LoS. Even from the producers themselves, but especially from the community. If LoS is the ultimate depiction of CV greatness for the CV fan, then I believe something is wrong. With such a diverse universe that spawned dozens of good games, LoS was the most bland and derivative that a CV ever felt. What can some graphical embellishment and some big names can do to people senses.   

Those comparisons with SoTC are depressing too. LoS has nothing like anything SoTC has provided, the titans are just simple scripted boss battles, nothing less, nothing more.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 25, 2010, 07:27:21 PM
Araujo's music is beautiful... but terribly inappropriate.  It may not even be his fault.  Perhaps he was instructed to work it that way by higher ups.  I know there are some game companies that give the composer power enough such that he can make a song, and they'll build a stage around it, while others are the other way around and build a stage and show a concept sketch to the person and say "Make a song about something that looks like this".  Etc.

I wouldn't call it shit or lame music.  Inappropriate for CV is as far as I'd go... just not a good fit (most tunes anyway).
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: CristopherLee on December 25, 2010, 07:47:50 PM
Quote
I don't want a Hollywood-esque score in my castlevania

Why not? Hollywood music is good. John Williams, Howard Shore, Ennio Morricone... that people are geniuses. I don't have any problem with that kind of music. I like HoD music too (it is the only good thing about that game, actually).

Quote
Apparently MS needed Kojima's advice, a guy that's never even worked on a Castlevania game, so why is it outlandish for them to have brought IGA on board as well? Your hate for IGA a man you discovered only recently is so apparent it's funny.

When you suddenly discover that the reasons behind all the LAME things of the last games you played was one and only one man's faults... is very logical to hate that guy. Don't you think?

And Kojima only make little suggestions. Most of them about the character design and the videos. Mercury Steam don't need him but, I would choose him too, even considering that "he ever made a Castlevania game before". Because he made GOOD ones, that is much more important. Actually, Hideo is a much more talented guy with much better ideas, my friend.

Quote
Those comparisons with SoTC are depressing too.

I'm agree. LoS is more challenging and fun to play.

Quote
Pandemonium isn't that old of a game. I've been playing platformers since they started btw.

Pandemonium, Crash Bandicoot, Mario 64... that was the first 3D platformers I have ever played. Because was the first ones.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: SIRHardle on December 25, 2010, 07:55:27 PM
Araujo's music is beautiful... but terribly inappropriate.  It may not even be his fault.  Perhaps he was instructed to work it that way by higher ups.  I know there are some game companies that give the composer power enough such that he can make a song, and they'll build a stage around it, while others are the other way around and build a stage and show a concept sketch to the person and say "Make a song about something that looks like this".  Etc.

I wouldn't call it shit or lame music.  Inappropriate for CV is as far as I'd go... just not a good fit (most tunes anyway).

There the whole cinematic atmosphere that also gets in the way. Not every game gets that there needs to be a balance between the cinematic feel and the gameplay itself. There's an immediate feedback involved, players are not only watching stuff, they are being active and making decisions. Even exploration music needs punch, we have other OSTs that provides that link, GoW, SoTC, Nier or Super Metroid for that matter. LoS OST was the weakest for me, especially since I've grown so used to having great soundtrack in my CVs. It was surprisingly short as well, for a 20 hours game it started looping really fast.

If Araujo is going to continue working for whatever LoS-related project they might have, someone better show him what's CV musically. There's a reason why Bloody Tears is reinterpreted, remixed, and played in all sorts of forms and scales by fans all over the world.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 25, 2010, 08:17:30 PM
Quote
Why not? Hollywood music is good.
Sure it is, just not for Castlevania my friend.

Quote
When you suddenly discover that the reasons behind all the LAME things of the last games you played was one and only one man's faults... is very logical to hate that guy. Don't you think?
As said by others, blaming one guy for all the series' disappointments is illogical reasoning that too many people make. Making games is a collaborative effort, and spewing hatred the likes of "GRRR IGA SHOULD DIE ALREADY" makes those butthurt fanboys seem more and more foolish with each sentence.

Quote
And Kojima only make little suggestions.
Exactly! IGA making little suggestions is a perfectly valid argument. He's qualified enough and it would've made the experience all the more enjoyable because they all have that passion (Cox, Kojima & IGA). People make it seem like his games are the equivalent to Atari games. Hey I know! Lets blame Symphony of the Night for raising the bar so high.


Can we please stop this bickering now CristopherLee. It's CHRISTMAS  :D
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: CristopherLee on December 25, 2010, 08:23:08 PM
Quote
As said by others, blaming one guy for all the series' disappointments is illogical reasoning that too many people make. Making games is a collaborative effort, and spewing hatred the likes of "GRRR IGA SHOULD DIE ALREADY" makes those butthurt fanboys seem more and more foolish with each sentence.

Are you kidding? If you are the director of a project you are the maximum responsible of the final result.

Quote
Can we please stop this bickering now CristopherLee. It's CHRISTMAS

You started

Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on December 25, 2010, 08:57:23 PM
Are you kidding? If you are the director of a project you are the maximum responsible of the final result.
You DO realize most of the games IGA gets slack for were NOT directed by him. Produced by him, maybe, but not directed. Actually, the ONLY game he has contributed his diretorial duties was on SotN, and that was as an ASSISTANT Director, not a full one.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 25, 2010, 09:16:18 PM
Are you kidding? If you are the director of a project you are the maximum responsible of the final result.

You started



And I will finish it.  What kind of stupid child response is that?
Stop with the nonsense already, what the hell!?
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Ahasverus on December 25, 2010, 09:59:29 PM
Chris man, you are screwed :P

LoS is not "foregin"... it's just that the mechanics that Castlevanioa should have had all this time have already been exploited by smarter developers before IGA. And, if you see the technical side of the things, IGa has no experiece in "serious" gaming, at all. I know most of you don't care about it, it's a matter of opinion, but LoS as flawed (?) as it could be was mature and serious enough to sho us how many potential there is in the mythos.

The titans were a SotC rip-off, but Cox never denied that, he said he loved that game and he wanted to pay homage to it. Again, they are fine, and they fit in the mythos well (We've had motorcycle eskeletons, titans are not an out of context idea) they ust need more "flow", they need to be less estatic and clock-precise, then they will be fine. When they work, they are thrilling, the feeling of jumping from the Stone titan hand's to his head was marvelous.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: SIRHardle on December 25, 2010, 11:15:51 PM
They could've waaay better worked or not added at all. Okay one well done giant boss is fine, three poorly implemented giant bosses is a little too much. And here's why it was a bad thing to focus in the wrong way on a feature that wasn't at all necessary for the game, except maybe for generating hype.

- First of all it's basically just one huge QTE setpiece, using the same mechanics you use to traverse the world. Nothing new there, plus very little for you to decide, not only the game dictates what you have to do, it shows you as well where you have to go. The only thing you can control is how fast you do them.

- What we have in SoTC, one among the many things that had made SoTC a fantastic game, is the incredible sense of scale as you're an actual part of what compose that world. When you travel miles with no end and finally climb that colossus you can actually see that "tree you just passed by, that valley, that lake, that waterfall, cave whatever. And you see them all so close together even though it took you a long time to cross those places. In LoS the camera stays so close to gabriel that you don't have much to see at all, you might as well be climbing a wall. Since there's also no physics play a role, all you have to do is wait for the shakes no strategic element whatsoever, just a minor road memorization and you're fine.

- Also in SoTC there a physics, one character and another character. It's up to you player to do everything. And the way the three characters (don't forget Agro) interacts is still unmatched so far.

- The best of the 3 titans was the Stone one. At least you have a little more to see before the camera crams you with his knee. And he has a few more tricks. Titan 1 and 3 are easily the worse ones, you just stand there doing repetitive work till they die.

- MS should made bosses like the Ice Titan a real boss. Give him a hurtbox and some attacks and patterns to control space for the player make good use of their skills and let them beat the crap of each other, little QTEs or climbing. Make the titan the center of the action and let the play use all angles around him etc.

- As a lot of things in LoS, the Titans had little to no exposition whatsoever. Another good use for giant bosses can be seen in God of War 2 and 3, they are part of what you're playing. They are there, you interact with them several times and little by little you find a way to end them. There's a lot of build up and anticipation on those things, in that sense the Ogre boss did it better.

I remember seeing someone posting somewhere that the Dracolich battle was more/as awesome than the Phalanx colossus. Man... what is wrong with people? ¬¬


   
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Gunlord on December 25, 2010, 11:23:08 PM
I really want a 1999 game. ;_;
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Kingshango on December 26, 2010, 04:35:17 AM
I really want a 1999 game. ;_;

 I do too but the chances of getting that 1999 game is as likely as getting a new Tales of game localized outside of Japan.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 26, 2010, 11:54:45 PM
I say let Iga finish his timeline with at least the 1999 game and then let Cox do his own thing separate from CV.  LoS is a great game, but it's just not CV.  It should be a different franchise with Cox in charge like how Iga is with CV.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Harrycombs on December 27, 2010, 12:32:27 AM
You DO realize most of the games IGA gets slack for were NOT directed by him. Produced by him, maybe, but not directed. Actually, the ONLY game he has contributed his diretorial duties was on SotN, and that was as an ASSISTANT Director, not a full one.

IGA was responsible for adding in the Metroid style elements to SotN. Pretty sure that he came in during development, and he was the one who was ultimately given control. Love him or hate him, IGA is responsible for the SotN we know and love. SotN would have been another Classicvania if it wasn't for him, and the franchise might have died then and there. Assistant director is a bit of an understatement (and you should usually ignore those roles in game credits, for instance Hironobu Sakaguchi created the battle system of Chrono Trigger and he wasn't credited for it at all in the game and it said he was only a Supervisor)

In the games where he served as Producer, he also many times wrote the scenario and such (thus DoS's horrible plot is his fault), and as producer he should have some system of quality control. He is still responsible when things go horribly, horribly, wrong, and that seems to be happening often as of late.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Innovator on December 27, 2010, 08:33:35 AM
LoS is a great game, but it's just not CV.

All Castlevania games since 2002 are not Castlevania. Okay ?
Can you tell me what is in common between Super Castlevania IV and AOS or LOI ? NOTHING.

"PLEASE I WANT THE 1999 GAME". People here dream about a "game" that DOESN'T EXIST (so it's not a game).

I played the Castlevania games since the early 1990', so please stop considering IGA games are Castlevania. They have nothing to do with Castlevania, it's IGA point of view about what Castlevania should be but NOT every Castlevania's 1st generation fans want to play. We have Metroid if we want to play Metroid games. We have RPG if we want to make some Level Ups to beat Boss in 2 strikes.

IGA had his time with the franchise. He showed us the best he could do. Why can't he let his place to another crew and talented team ? I don't care about MercurySteam or another one. I'm not a Coxfan, but his LOS game was pleasant to play and it was really a fresh new game and that's all I want when I play a Castlevania game.

People on this forum are really blind and unfair. Just like children.
Uncapable of hearing and debate without insults and stupid arguments.

Shame on you.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Viper on December 27, 2010, 11:25:21 AM
Oh my! And here is the same wars and "true-fans"...
Any game with "Castlevania" in title is Castlevania, ok?))
I'm really happy that Konami doesn't listen to fans.

Played Castlevania since early 1990.)))))
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 27, 2010, 11:40:25 AM
All Castlevania games since 2002 are not Castlevania. Okay ?
Can you tell me what is in common between Super Castlevania IV and AOS or LOI ? NOTHING.

"PLEASE I WANT THE 1999 GAME". People here dream about a "game" that DOESN'T EXIST (so it's not a game).

I played the Castlevania games since the early 1990', so please stop considering IGA games are Castlevania. They have nothing to do with Castlevania, it's IGA point of view about what Castlevania should be but NOT every Castlevania's 1st generation fans want to play. We have Metroid if we want to play Metroid games. We have RPG if we want to make some Level Ups to beat Boss in 2 strikes.

IGA had his time with the franchise. He showed us the best he could do. Why can't he let his place to another crew and talented team ? I don't care about MercurySteam or another one. I'm not a Coxfan, but his LOS game was pleasant to play and it was really a fresh new game and that's all I want when I play a Castlevania game.

People on this forum are really blind and unfair. Just like children.
Uncapable of hearing and debate without insults and stupid arguments.

Shame on you.

I'd like an explanation on what exactly you want in a Castlevania game because I'm a bit confused. IGA's game are not Castlevania, but LoS is? One could argue that LoS has little in common with the older games as well. Do you want Castlevania to still retain level-based 2D side-scrolling gameplay like the older games? You stated that LoS is a fresh new game and that's what you want, but I feel that if we kept level-based 2D side-crolling gameplay then they would eventually stop feeling so fresh. I'm not trying to pick your post apart and attack you, so please don't take it that way.....I just want you to clarify what exactly you want.

Also, it's not fair to come in here and start labeling others as "children". You say we are incapable of discussion without insults, then you go and do the same thing. Stop acting like your an angry parent or something. You're not the only old school 'vania fan around here.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 27, 2010, 12:52:03 PM
Wow!  I haven't posted here in half a year? and am not suprised that there is a "Cox vs IGA" war going on here.

The planet won't explode if we have two teams making CV games.  Earth survived the first time more than one company made a CV title simultantously.

In all honestly, I can't wait for that Alucard sequel to come out if it is ever comming out.  I personally think all the attacks toward IGA is bias at best.  Sure, his games feels a bit disappointing after finishing it, but a lot of 2d games feel like it nowadays.  It is so hard to make a 2d game that can last as long in today's gamming world because of technology - the average videogame prob takes you around 10-30 hours to beat whereas an average 2d game might take a few hours.   It is possible that IGA can go back and make a pre-Metroidvania game but I am sure if he does, people will co....I will just shut up there since he has w/ Castvania Adventures Rebirth and people complained about that from the game being too short, to reusing one recycled texture, to not being a "true" remake of the crappy gameboy ver.  A lot of you guys seem to look for anything to bash IGA.

As for Lords of Shadow, I  have started playing the game a couple days ago and love it!  It gives new breath to the CV series.  I like how the storyline (so far) isn't as cheesy as the IGA's games, though I don't think IGA should be completely blamed for the story since other people have worked on the games and it is so difficult trying to add new story plots to a decade old series with a strict background; try making developing a completely new storyline in a well established series with a villain returning from the dead every 100 years?  I fathom that it is not easy to come up with a good storyline since you can't ignore the history of the mythos established in the other games.  That is why after a certain point, every series, other than Mario (which does not really have a storyline), get stale.

I am not a IGA fanboy since I am a bit bored of his Metroidvania titles, but I don't think he should be bashed all the time.  He is the one of the key people who made Castlevania live so long.  IF not for him, Castlevania might be like Contra.

As for Mercurysteam's Castlevania, I would love to see other developing teams add titles to the series.  I would also like the new timeline has existing major CV characters like Alucard.

I realize this comment and the one after it makes me sound like a dick, oh well.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 27, 2010, 12:56:04 PM
All Castlevania games since 2002 are not Castlevania. Okay ?
Can you tell me what is in common between Super Castlevania IV and AOS or LOI ? NOTHING.

"PLEASE I WANT THE 1999 GAME". People here dream about a "game" that DOESN'T EXIST (so it's not a game).

I played the Castlevania games since the early 1990', so please stop considering IGA games are Castlevania. They have nothing to do with Castlevania, it's IGA point of view about what Castlevania should be but NOT every Castlevania's 1st generation fans want to play. We have Metroid if we want to play Metroid games. We have RPG if we want to make some Level Ups to beat Boss in 2 strikes.



I have been playing Castlevania since the late '80s, so what is your point?  Regardless on who played the series when isn't the point other than to brag something so trivial.   Just because a fan played the game at a certain length of time makes his opnions more valid than the next guy or to Konami?    The games are called Castlevania because they are Castlevania games.  You can kick and scream all ya want, but it won't change the game from not being CV games.  Give me a break!
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Innovator on December 27, 2010, 01:41:29 PM
I'd like an explanation on what exactly you want in a Castlevania game because I'm a bit confused. IGA's game are not Castlevania, but LoS is? One could argue that LoS has little in common with the older games as well. Do you want Castlevania to still retain level-based 2D side-scrolling gameplay like the older games? You stated that LoS is a fresh new game and that's what you want, but I feel that if we kept level-based 2D side-crolling gameplay then they would eventually stop feeling so fresh. I'm not trying to pick your post apart and attack you, so please don't take it that way.....I just want you to clarify what exactly you want.

Sorry, maybe I have to explain better.

It has nothing to do with 2D or 3D, for God sake. We can have good Castlevania in 2D or 3D. What determines a good game and a bad game ? Fun factor, difficulty, lengh, graphics, music, polish, originality.

On all these points, the franchise offers us the same and the same at a standart or poor level since HOD. Games are finished in 1 day, musics are always the same, it's always the same mechanics - find how to slide, find the double jump, find a powerful armor and keeping it until the end, finding a good weapon and keeping it until the end, killing Dracula in 2 slashes, making Level 99 to destroy everything in just RUNNING, finding lots of Save Rooms to get the life bar full again, or teleports to spare some walk time in the Castle, buy all that you want in a merchant shop, see poor dialogue with always the useless girl and always the traitor.

And make stupid things : save a cat on the tree, decorating a room, find a chair, throne or sitting on a water-closed, play a Guitar Electric, finding rubies/stuff to make a robe, ..... All these elements are NOT Castlevania. It's just out of the mind of IGA and his crew, who don't know how to give us some fun, and don't have any genious.

They have nothing to offer the player anymore. The last game : Judgment is a horrible "thing". I don't hate this game because it's a VS game. I hate it because it's non-fun at all, boring and repetitive. The same with LOI and COD which have no identity, full of useless rooms and same-corridors, with a dull level design because jumping is useless in these game : they are totally FLAT and there is almost no-platforms sequences. And portable games are each time the same with repetitive mechanics, ennemies and challenge.

You know, I'm not a LOS fan, but it was full of new ideas, fresh air, new atmosphere, dark story, gloomy levels, new areas to travel (Tower of Malphas), platforms, interesting music score and new artistic direction for the series. Old Castlevania are all differents, with always new Artworks made by different Designers, different producers, different composers --> this way we can say that Chi no Rondo has nothing to do with the first Castlevania, Simon's Quest is totally different from Super Castlevania IV, etc etc...

About LOS, one simple illustration : I loved to fight epic combats against Vampires. Iga and his team totally forgot during 8 years that Castlevania was a fight between a Hero/Vampire Hunter against evil creatures of the Night, including Vampires ! Althought we have a crazy large variations of Skeletons in IGA games, but absolutely no vampires (just final boss).


So Castlevania LOS is a Castlevania game because it's a very long and challenging gamen, it's not Level Up based, with Save Rooms, Teleports, and all I described sooner. I hope you understand what I mean now. Yes, I played Castlevania since I'm a little boy, but at least, I know WHY I like Castlevania. That's why I want a new direction for the series for each new entry. I don't want IGA games forever because they are useless for the gamers.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Ahasverus on December 27, 2010, 03:32:46 PM
Quote
So Castlevania LOS is a Castlevania game because it's a very long and challenging gamen, it's not Level Up based, with Save Rooms, Teleports, and all I described sooner. I hope you understand what I mean now. Yes, I played Castlevania since I'm a little boy, but at least, I know WHY I like Castlevania. That's why I want a new direction for the series for each new entry. I don't want IGA games forever because they are useless for the gamers.
This (sans the last part :P " I want a new direction for the series for each new entry" really? xD)
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: SIRHardle on December 27, 2010, 03:46:47 PM
Funny thing about the 2 slashes Dracula kill stuff.

Did any of you guys realized that you can't actually lose the final battle in LoS unless you're a very slow player? And that goes for any difficulty level. The final and most epic battle (still Zobek would have been a much cohesive boss story-wise) in the whole game is the easiest battle of the whole game as well. That's so counter-productive, takes away the whole thrill of the fight... technically the last real boss in LoS is the Gravedigger, there's the last battle where you're actually challenged as a player. Dracolich is a glorified QTE so that doesn't help much either...

Lots of bosses also share the same regular enemy pattern. Cornell, the ogre and the butcher are the best executed bosses in the game.

MS take notes please, don't be afraid to let people die and learn how face a boss. Also create a different set of patterns and AIs for your next LoS game bosses.   
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 27, 2010, 04:04:12 PM
People on this forum are really blind and unfair. Just like children.
Uncapable of hearing and debate without insults and stupid arguments.
Shame on you.

You are free to leave the forum if you so wish.  Or stay.  But I will not have you insulting the community every three of your posts.  All I have heard are complaints from you.  We appreciate the opinions you have to add to the discussion, but by the same token you have to appreciate the opinions other have as well.  Or you can ignore the posts and don't respond.  You speak paragraphs and paragraphs of opinion and get mad when others posts theirs, and then complain and resort to name calling.

You're not any better than any of these forum members, so please stop acting like you are.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 27, 2010, 04:10:45 PM
Quote
Quote
So Castlevania LOS is a Castlevania game because it's a very long and challenging gamen, it's not Level Up based, with Save Rooms, Teleports, and all I described sooner. I hope you understand what I mean now. Yes, I played Castlevania since I'm a little boy, but at least, I know WHY I like Castlevania. That's why I want a new direction for the series for each new entry. I don't want IGA games forever because they are useless for the gamers.
This (sans the last part :P " I want a new direction for the series for each new entry" really? xD)

Ugh, sorry but NOT THIS.

Innovator, way to act like a glorified troll by continuously bashing the community for literally nothing at all. We consider IGA's games Castlevania games because they're CASTLEVANIA games, it doesn't matter what you want them to be. And LoS is a Castlevania game as well! But wahhh they include save points & levelling up, the Japo-influences make me poop my pants. Please stop spamming this forum with how much you hate half the games of the series, I think we get your point by now. Sheesh.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on December 27, 2010, 04:12:34 PM
About LOS, one simple illustration : I loved to fight epic combats against Vampires. Iga and his team totally forgot during 8 years that Castlevania was a fight between a Hero/Vampire Hunter against evil creatures of the Night, including Vampires ! Althought we have a crazy large variations of Skeletons in IGA games, but absolutely no vampires (just final boss).
Yes, IGA N-E-V-E-R used vampires in his video games OTHER than final bosses. I mean, y'know, Olrox, Joachim Armster, Walter Bernhard, Brauner, Loretta and Stella, and even Vampre Annette in DXC were only set pieces. You never really fight them as, say, BOSSES! *wipes the sarcasm off lips*
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: shelverton. on December 27, 2010, 05:09:11 PM

Konami should make up for the lack of vampires by releasing a Castlevania game with 8 Vampire Masters in their own levels. You should be able to choose which order to tackle the levels, and for every Vampire Master you beat, you gain a new ability/weapon.  Finally, when you've beaten all the 8 Vampire Masters you should be able to enter Dr Wily's... eh, Draculas Castle.

Great idea on paper, this.  ;D
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Successor The Cruel on December 27, 2010, 05:14:50 PM
I'd like to see him continue to make Castlevania games.  Or, you know what?  Maybe not even him, but someone who doesn't betray the spirit of the series and can do it proper justice.  I think that's all I really need to be happy.  It doesn't have to be IGA, but I feel Mercury Steam and Dave Cox should have nothing to do with Castlevania.

EDIT:
This is really an aside, but is it really necessary to broadcast my operating system and internet browser choices to the world? : x
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: ganonfloyd on December 27, 2010, 05:26:52 PM
Konami should make up for the lack of vampires by releasing a Castlevania game with 8 Vampire Masters in their own levels. You should be able to choose which order to tackle the levels, and for every Vampire Master you beat, you gain a new ability/weapon.  Finally, when you've beaten all the 8 Vampire Masters you should be able to enter Dr Wily's... eh, Draculas Castle.

Great idea on paper, this.  ;D

Pffffft, there's no way that setup would ever work with anything...
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: SIRHardle on December 27, 2010, 05:32:26 PM
Konami should make up for the lack of vampires by releasing a Castlevania game with 8 Vampire Masters in their own levels. You should be able to choose which order to tackle the levels, and for every Vampire Master you beat, you gain a new ability/weapon.  Finally, when you've beaten all the 8 Vampire Masters you should be able to enter Dr Wily's... eh, Draculas Castle.

Great idea on paper, this.  ;D

I would sooo buy this play to play as BelmontMan. I already fear the MedusaheadMan stage. o__O

Oh yeah, and what about these browser stuff. What if someone comes up with a PornoFox or XXXXplorer?
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Innovator on December 27, 2010, 06:28:41 PM
You are free to leave the forum if you so wish.  Or stay.  But I will not have you insulting the community every three of your posts. You're not any better than any of these forum members, so please stop acting like you are.

Where are my insults ? When I say there are children on this forum, it's because those kind of emails :

And I will finish it.  What kind of stupid child response is that?
Stop with the nonsense already, what the hell!?

Child is your own word, okay ? And I felt it's very justified because this dispute was useless.

There's no hate in my messages, just LOVE for Castlevania. You and Crisis only concentrate on "why I despise IGAvania" (it's easier !) but you should better read why I love real Castlevania games since 20 years. It's okay I don't have to speak about IGA and his team anymore, because they look like dead and buried since 2 years now ! There's no use to speak much about that. So I just hope people will begin to forget him in playing this wonderful Despair shit...

I prefer to speak about the good news for Castlevania : the adds for LOS and the new direction Konami wants to give to the series.

Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 27, 2010, 06:56:09 PM
Quote from: Crisis
Making games is a collaborative effort, and spewing hatred the likes of "GRRR IGA SHOULD DIE ALREADY" makes those butthurt fanboys seem more and more foolish with each sentence.

I should just make this my sig
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 27, 2010, 07:40:41 PM
Not gonna bother quoting.

I only posted "what a childish response" because it was directly at single bickering between two people where one resorted to saying "You started it".  That one response does not reflect my response to the entire Castlevania Dungeon Forums populace, and if you think that's what I meant, then you have gravely misunderstood.

"I" personally don't care whether you hate IGA or worship the ground he walks on.  I just want civility and order in here, and in order to maintain it, sometimes people need to stop with the name-calling amongst themselves and put things in perspective.  If I'm personally calling a response childish it's because it really is, such as the example above, and I get to do that because I'm the person modding around here, and it was a warning to NOT do that, and it wasn't even directed at you, but at someone else. 

My personal opinion on IGA does not get mentioned... I don't mention it because most people already know it and I don't want to waste my time typing it over and over again.  What I do mention is that you continue to cause enmity in every few posts you post.  Why do you even bother posting them if all it is is an overly verbose paragraph insulting the community forum you're posting on.

This is a Warning, Innovator.  Do not continue your behavior.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 27, 2010, 07:53:02 PM
Yes, IGA N-E-V-E-R used vampires in his video games OTHER than final bosses. I mean, y'know, Olrox, Joachim Armster, Walter Bernhard, Brauner, Loretta and Stella, and even Vampre Annette in DXC were only set pieces. You never really fight them as, say, BOSSES! *wipes the sarcasm off lips*
That's so true.  Actually, having vampires as normal enemies was one of the redeeming features of the N64 CVs.  It's also what I like about LoS.  For Dracula being "lord of the vampires", he doesn't have a lot of them as underlings.
Konami should make up for the lack of vampires by releasing a Castlevania game with 8 Vampire Masters in their own levels. You should be able to choose which order to tackle the levels, and for every Vampire Master you beat, you gain a new ability/weapon.  Finally, when you've beaten all the 8 Vampire Masters you should be able to enter Dr Wily's... eh, Draculas Castle.

Great idea on paper, this.  ;D
LMAO.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Innovator on December 27, 2010, 08:56:00 PM
Jorge,

Actually, this entire topic is childish.
I shoul'nt have participate in this debate, the very same neverending since 3-4 years.
However, you can talk about all hate you want, you notice it isn't I who initiate "IGA --Le Requiem?".

I guess man is a wolf to man.
Crisis was right when he said : "oh man I could see this turn into a bash-fest real fast."

Everyone keeps on his position so it's useless to continue on speaking about it. Like I already said, I prefer to speak about the good news for Castlevania : the interesting adds for LOS and the new direction Konami wants to give to the series. That's my point.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 27, 2010, 09:00:53 PM
This (sans the last part :P " I want a new direction for the series for each new entry" really? xD)


Ugh, sorry but NOT THIS.

Innovator, way to act like a glorified troll by continuously bashing the community for literally nothing at all. We consider IGA's games Castlevania games because they're CASTLEVANIA games, it doesn't matter what you want them to be. And LoS is a Castlevania game as well! But wahhh they include save points & levelling up, the Japo-influences make me poop my pants. Please stop spamming this forum with how much you hate half the games of the series, I think we get your point by now. Sheesh.

I would like to add your post that all game developers tries to innovate(pun inted) their titles to make them fresh and new to gamers.  With that said, IGA is trying to change up the game to make it fresh, which is the same thing Mercurysteam is doing with LOS. 
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Maedhros on December 27, 2010, 09:03:38 PM
Sorry for the Off-Topic Jorge, but I want to ask something: this forum have a account ban/suspension system? I never saw anyone here being suspended at all... just asking.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 27, 2010, 09:19:43 PM
How come every post he makes is dripping with smugness and attitude. Relax. Keep in mind, we're all Castlevania fans here. Just that we have different ideas on what we want with the series.

Maybe we should all start posting hot pics of Carmilla again. I think that's something we all can agree on.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 27, 2010, 10:11:05 PM
Sorry for the Off-Topic Jorge, but I want to ask something: this forum have a account ban/suspension system? I never saw anyone here being suspended at all... just asking.

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Honestly, the administration/moderation here (myself and others) really try and give people a chance.  The rules are obvious and stated at the topic "Rules Thread".  Mostly it's "Don't be douchey" or something. :P  I give people a few warnings and if they persist with their shenanigans, then all of a sudden you guys don't see them post anymore.  It's low-key, the way moderation happens.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: cecil-kain on December 28, 2010, 05:32:42 AM
Well, it seems about two-thirds are supportive of IGA's involvement, --but most of that support seems to call for some measure of closure as well.

This is my opinion...

Konami needs to acknowledge their art.  Don't get me wrong, I think Castlevania's rebooting was inevitable, but damn ill-advised to leave their existing mythology and artistic legacy unfinished.  Downright contemptible to strings us along --building up to something epic --for several years --and then being told to forget everything we know about Castlevania and play *this* instead.  LoS was a good game, but not good enough to make me forget Castlevania --and certainly not good enough to replace Castlevania as we know it.  I'm very angry about all this --angry that businessmen are making business decisions, instead of letting the devoted artists finish their work.  Order of Ecclesia came out over 2 years ago --there are NO announcements concerning IGA's future --NO reassurances that Konami will support the classic timeline --NO promise whatsoever of any closure for the Castlevania Mythology's most supportive fans.

If there's nothing hopeful announced by the time 3DS arrives...

--well, that's as good as a big, chocolate GAME OVER cake with a blazing, corporate, middle-finger-shaped candle on top.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: C Belmont on December 28, 2010, 07:06:54 AM
I don't get it? What more closure could another Iga game possibly bring? Don’t we already know that Dracula loses in the end & that the Belmont line may even finish with Julius as well since he failed to produce an heir? For me Iga's last real game (OOE) felt less connected to Castlevania's mythology than most other Castlevania games usually are - it's almost like a filler episode.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: GummiCandyful on December 28, 2010, 07:31:19 AM
I picked the third option, but all jokes aside, he should probably give his timeline closure with the 1999 game if he leaves. If he does a good job, great. If not, oh well, then. And after that, they could have some other Japanese developer handle the rest of the series, and Cox continue the LoS story on the main consoles.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Nagumo on December 28, 2010, 12:06:59 PM
I don't get it? What more closure could another Iga game possibly bring? Don’t we already know that Dracula loses in the end & that the Belmont line may even finish with Julius as well since he failed to produce an heir? For me Iga's last real game (OOE) felt less connected to Castlevania's mythology than most other Castlevania games usually are - it's almost like a filler episode.

Most Castlevania games are fillers, but OoE wasn't as pointless storywise as PoR or something because it at least explained what happend to the Belmont family.

   
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on December 28, 2010, 06:47:58 PM
OoE didn't really explain anything regarding the dissapearence of the main Belmont family line. It just said that they dissapeared. That's it. No real explination. I've played throught the game more then twice and read the story over and over again and still it was all very grey and hazy. That's why we need the 1999 game. It will clear things up if not screw things up even more (story wise).

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Nagumo on December 28, 2010, 07:11:56 PM
OoE didn't really explain anything regarding the dissapearence of the main Belmont family line. It just said that they dissapeared. 


You must have skipped the part where it is revealed they have become villagers with amnesia.  :-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Alutwon on December 28, 2010, 08:07:07 PM
The whole "Belmont's can't use the whip because Richter was corrupted" thing is just dumb. Soliyeu was corrupted in the same way and they had no problems then. I honestly don't care about the stories anymore in Iga's games. I just with he'd stop trying to connect everything and give us more Belmont doing his thing.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 28, 2010, 08:19:17 PM
It's been forever since I played that game, but if I remember correctly, Soleiyu didn't use the Vampire Killer to commit his evil acts. If he did, then what did Chris use to stop him.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 28, 2010, 08:34:23 PM
The whole "Belmont's can't use the whip because Richter was corrupted" thing is just dumb. Soliyeu was corrupted in the same way and they had no problems then. I honestly don't care about the stories anymore in Iga's games. I just with he'd stop trying to connect everything and give us more Belmont doing his thing.
It's been forever since I played that game, but if I remember correctly, Soleiyu didn't use the Vampire Killer to commit his evil acts. If he did, then what did Chris use to stop him.
Both of these statements have a point.  Richter wasn't the first Belmont to be corrupted, but he was the only one who wielded the vampire killer while being corrupted.  Soleiyu hadn't yet received the title of vampire hunter and thus, he didn't have the whip yet.
The real heart of the controversy is that all of a sudden the Belmonts have disappeared and we are told that they can't touch the whip until 1999 without a legitimate and detailed explanation.  Supposedly, the Alucardvania, which may or may not be made, was going to explain it.  This is why I think Iga should stay for a while and give some closure through the Alucardvania and 1999 game.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: e105beta on December 28, 2010, 09:36:57 PM
I'm pretty sure Richter corrupted the whip so that IGA wasn't expected to make games with Belmonts anymore.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 28, 2010, 10:38:14 PM
Most Castlevania games are fillers, but OoE wasn't as pointless storywise as PoR or something because it at least explained what happend to the Belmont family.

   

With the exception of the cornball twist that the villain is the guy you work for (the game is old, so if it is a spoiler then :P) I thought Ooe had the best storyline other than SOTN.

I can see this title being redone in the LOS universe with the order and all.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 28, 2010, 10:41:59 PM
I'm pretty sure Richter corrupted the whip so that IGA wasn't expected to make games with Belmonts anymore.

I thought he did that in trying to explain why John Morris ended up with the whip.  I would expect ppl blaming IGA for his decision in doing so, but it isn't his fault since the Bloodline storyline was the game that tried to fit the Stroker's novel into the CV continuity.  He gotten enough flack for putting the gaiden CV games into an alternate timeline.  

I honestly think he shouldn't have publicly released a timeline since the CV community can be quite vicious.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 29, 2010, 02:42:41 AM
I honestly think he shouldn't have publicly released a timeline since the CV community can be quite vicious.

Surely you don't mean us....... ;D /sarcasm

Didn't IGA say somewhere that he only removed games from the timeline if the directors didn't consider them canon? I swear I read that somewhere. Maybe he was forced into a position where he had to come up with some kind of explanation for why the Belmonts didn't wield the whip in Bloodlines.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 29, 2010, 02:57:33 AM
A simple one would've just been "They're Belmont Descendants".  There was really no reason to make it all "My last name is my power".
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: thernz on December 29, 2010, 03:10:13 AM
I felt that both PoR and DoS added things to the storyline that harmed it.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: e105beta on December 29, 2010, 03:38:11 AM
A simple one would've just been "They're Belmont Descendants".  There was really no reason to make it all "My last name is my power".

We can't have those mudbloods mucking up the bloodline.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Nagumo on December 29, 2010, 07:30:10 AM
The whole "Belmont's can't use the whip because Richter was corrupted" thing is just dumb. Soliyeu was corrupted in the same way and they had no problems then. 

That's just fandom. The real reason hasn't been explained yet.     
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crystos on December 29, 2010, 11:17:44 AM
i think iga can bounce.. i think he's all vania'd out. I'm sure he has other ambitions,how much timEs can he work the SOTN formula?

The new timeline can work in a new version of all the belmonts after this game.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: cecil-kain on December 29, 2010, 02:43:12 PM
I think alot of people forget that IGA didn't create the "Belmont hero disappears" problem.  That came before IGA, from Bloodlines --a rather awkward attempt to shoehorn Bram Stoker's novel into the evolving canon --which BTW was just fine without it.  Once the Belmont surname became disposable, certain elements of Castlevania needed to be reconciled with the well-established world of Van Helsing, Harker, and Morris...  Things like making Quincy an offshoot Belmont --making the Vampire Killer -dangerous- to anyone without the surname --Richter's mysterious curse that forces the main family into the wilderness till Julius...  and the list goes on and on --in fact I could still point to half a dozen things that haven't been properly reconciled yet...  IMO the biggest mistake IGA made was failing to retcon Bloodlines along with Legends and the CV64s --but DAMN, for all the criticism Portrait gets around here I wonder how any of you might have solved the story-telling problems he made an honest attempt to tackle.  Anyone?
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on December 29, 2010, 03:26:30 PM
That's just fandom. The real reason hasn't been explained yet.
The curse bit IS just fan speculation. The official word is that the Belmonts went into hiding(with no description to why they did this). People think it's Richter because he seemingly WAS the last Belmont to wield Vampire Killer before the Belmonts went into hiding. This is proven by the fact that in PoR, the Whip's Memory appears in the form of Richter(Whip's Memory appears in the form of the last Belmont who wielded it).

I think alot of people forget that IGA didn't create the "Belmont hero disappears" problem.  That came before IGA, from Bloodlines --a rather awkward attempt to shoehorn Bram Stoker's novel into the evolving canon --which BTW was just fine without it.  Once the Belmont surname became disposable, certain elements of Castlevania needed to be reconciled with the well-established world of Van Helsing, Harker, and Morris...  Things like making Quincy an offshoot Belmont --making the Vampire Killer -dangerous- to anyone without the surname --Richter's mysterious curse that forces the main family into the wilderness till Julius...  and the list goes on and on --in fact I could still point to half a dozen things that haven't been properly reconciled yet...  IMO the biggest mistake IGA made was failing to retcon Bloodlines along with Legends and the CV64s --but DAMN, for all the criticism Portrait gets around here I wonder how any of you might have solved the story-telling problems he made an honest attempt to tackle.  Anyone?
Yes, IGA didn't create the Belmonts disappearance, just like IGA didn't create the bit about Dracula being an estimated 800 years old in the late 1700s . People critcize him from making Dracula "different" than Vlad the Impaler(How stupid, he's OLDER than the REAL Dracula! That sucks!!) and believe that SotN and LoI brought that bit up first, when it was actually put into canon by RoB(which wasn't written by IGA). The only thing IGA did was attempt at damage control(try to explain why those things are the way they are). He hasn't done so yet withthe whole "Belmonts disappearance", but I think I think it's one of those things he'd feel obligated to getting around to.

Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 29, 2010, 08:52:54 PM
The curse bit IS just fan speculation. The official word is that the Belmonts went into hiding(with no description to why they did this). People think it's Richter because he seemingly WAS the last Belmont to wield Vampire Killer before the Belmonts went into hiding. This is proven by the fact that in PoR, the Whip's Memory appears in the form of Richter(Whip's Memory appears in the form of the last Belmont who wielded it).
Yes, IGA didn't create the Belmonts disappearance, just like IGA didn't create the bit about Dracula being an estimated 800 years old in the late 1700s . People critcize him from making Dracula "different" than Vlad the Impaler(How stupid, he's OLDER than the REAL Dracula! That sucks!!) and believe that SotN and LoI brought that bit up first, when it was actually put into canon by RoB(which wasn't written by IGA). The only thing IGA did was attempt at damage control(try to explain why those things are the way they are). He hasn't done so yet withthe whole "Belmonts disappearance", but I think I think it's one of those things he'd feel obligated to getting around to.


Yes, I whole-heartedly agree.  The problems with the overall story aren't really Iga's fault.  His predicesors screwed things up by making Dracula older than Vlad the Impaler (RoB) and by trying to work in Bram Storker's Dracula (Bloodlines).  While he did do a somewhat decent job, he is still criticized because he is currently the one in charge and there are plot wholes even though he isn't the one who created them.  I, as well as others on this forum, applaud him for his attempts at damage controls.  A lot of the plot holes could have been solved simply by removing Bloodlines from the timeline and then saying that in the castlevania universe, Count Dracula Vlad the Impaler were two different individuals.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: uzo on December 29, 2010, 08:59:54 PM
Recall that in the Radio Drama episodes Richter was still actively hunting and had the whip in its full usage, or so I recall.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: C Belmont on December 29, 2010, 10:53:32 PM
Quote
I think a lot of people forget that IGA didn't create the "Belmont hero disappears" problem.  That came before IGA, from Bloodlines --a rather awkward attempt to shoehorn Bram Stoker's novel into the evolving canon --which BTW was just fine without it.


But in Bloodlines wasn't John Morris simply intended to be the next Belmont hero, the idea of a purer separate line that just inexplicably disappeared was something that Iga introduced not bloodlines.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 30, 2010, 02:16:19 AM


But in Bloodlines wasn't John Morris simply intended to be the next Belmont hero, the idea of a purer separate line that just inexplicably disappeared was something that Iga introduced not bloodlines.

You're right.  Actually, now that I think about it, the whole mess started with AoS in that Julius had the Belmont last name.  And I believe that Iga was in charge when it came out.  So, it is partially his fault for plot holes, but there is one plot hole that he isn't responsible for: in the instruction manuals of SotN (and possibly RoB) Dracula is said to be around 800 years old in the 1700s which would make him 500 years older than Vlad the Impaler.  Iga tried to sort of fix this by making Dracula not Vlad the Impaler, yet Iga was still at least 100 years off.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: cecil-kain on December 30, 2010, 02:35:22 AM
Both of you are forgetting Belmont's Revenge established the passing of the Vampire Killer as a father-son tradition.  Bloodlines ruined that by removing the Belmont surname --all for no other reason than to force the Stoker novel into the mythos.  IGA included Julius in AoS to show that the male line of Belmonts never died out --and moreover to restore them to their rightful place as Dracula's rival...  All the complications in PoR work toward correcting the mythos problems imposed by Bloodlines.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 30, 2010, 02:40:57 AM
and St. Germain is gonna be there too.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: thernz on December 30, 2010, 02:44:06 AM
you would think that the clan would just select the most able and prodigious of the youths for the heir to vampire killer. i mean, it would just be mere coincidence that they mostly turned out to be belmonts but you wouldn't have story-muck.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 30, 2010, 03:25:20 AM
Both of you are forgetting Belmont's Revenge established the passing of the Vampire Killer as a father-son tradition.  Bloodlines ruined that by removing the Belmont surname --all for no other reason than to force the Stoker novel into the mythos.  IGA included Julius in AoS to show that the male line of Belmonts never died out --and moreover to restore them to their rightful place as Dracula's rival...  All the complications in PoR work toward correcting the mythos problems imposed by Bloodlines.

True.  I wouldn't blame Iga for trying to bring back the Belmont surname since they are as much iconic to the series like Dracula.  If I am not mistaken, people were going to go all up in arms if Gabriel wasn't a Belmont.  Gamers in Japan were also pissed when IGA tried to title the GBA titles as Castlevania.  I am just saying that fans will be in rage if the games get altered by removing the title of the game or removing the belmonts as Dracula's rival.


What is also bizarre with Bloodlines is that they made the person with the whip an american.  Having him american just doesn't make sense unless Dracula's castle re emerged in the US.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 30, 2010, 03:30:37 AM
I guess technically Bram Stoker made John Morris an American since Stoker created John's father, Quincey. However, there is no mention of Quincey having a son in Stoker's novel.

Odd.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 30, 2010, 03:37:01 AM
Surely you don't mean us....... ;D /sarcasm

Didn't IGA say somewhere that he only removed games from the timeline if the directors didn't consider them canon? I swear I read that somewhere. Maybe he was forced into a position where he had to come up with some kind of explanation for why the Belmonts didn't wield the whip in Bloodlines.

He did, but he also regretted having the timeline released since he received blacklash from it.  Besides, if he did included all those games in canon, it would be more harder than it currently is to connect them to one continuity.  Iga has to explain why the whip keeps jumping back and forth from Belmont to non blooded sucessors or descendences and etc. I think the only game that wasn't canon, but was a bit contradicting was Castlevania legends.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: le052383 on December 30, 2010, 03:42:44 AM
I guess technically Bram Stoker made John Morris an American since Stoker created John's father, Quincey. However, there is no mention of Quincey having a son in Stoker's novel.

Odd.

I've never read the book and thought Quincy was the british guy.  My bad. 

The son was only created to make him the sucessor of the belmont clan.  It is stupid to even try to fit the book into castlevania because not only did they make the son somehow watched Quincy fight Dracula when he was five.  Wasn't Quincy supposely single in the book?
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: C Belmont on December 30, 2010, 03:53:52 AM
Quote
Both of you are forgetting Belmont's Revenge established the passing of the Vampire Killer as a father-son tradition

The manual describes a ceremony where Soleiyu is bestowed with some form of power & the title of vampire hunter but there is nothing about him receiving the whip. I don't even think the whip was regarded as the Belmont’s main source of power at that stage was it? I mean both Christopher & his son have whips in the games ending.

Quote
am just saying that fans will be in rage if the games get altered by removing the title of the game or removing the belmonts as Dracula's rival

...and yet Iga has a record of letting just about anyone take on the Count & his Castle.

Quote
Wasn't Quincy supposely single in the book?

I think he was also a bit of an adventurer & "a rough fellow, who hasn't perhaps lived as a man should"
Obviously it's a stretch but he could have had an illegitimate child
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: cecil-kain on December 30, 2010, 04:35:11 AM
The manual describes a ceremony where Soleiyu is bestowed with some form of power & the title of vampire hunter but there is nothing about him receiving the whip. I don't even think the whip was regarded as the Belmont’s main source of power at that stage was it? I mean both Christopher & his son have whips in the games ending.

This is one of those things where you wonder what details might have been lost in the translation.  But the concept here is very clear --Soleiyu has come of age and to become the next "Vampire Killer" --although no specific age is given, Belmont's Revenge is specifically dated 15 years after Castlevania Adventure --so you could easily conjecture Soleiyu as a teenager...  Considering the young age and the corruption by Dracula, you have to acknowledge Solieyu's weakness --as if he were just beginning his training...  As for the source of the Family's power --well that's really a secondary issue.  The point here is the father-son relationship of Belmont's Revenge building upon the patriarchy that was established between Trevor and Simon.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 30, 2010, 11:54:41 AM
I've never read the book and thought Quincy was the british guy.  My bad. 

The son was only created to make him the sucessor of the belmont clan.  It is stupid to even try to fit the book into castlevania because not only did they make the son somehow watched Quincy fight Dracula when he was five.  Wasn't Quincy supposely single in the book?

Yes, he was single.
!!!! MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW !!!!

(click to show/hide)

Bloodlines is a fantastic game.....one of my favorites. However, I could really do without the connection to the novel. It only complicates things.

I think the only game that wasn't canon, but was a bit contradicting was Castlevania legends.

CotM was a little contradicting too, IMO. Here we have a different vampire hunting bloodline with a different vampire killing whip. A mentor named Morris(lol) and the castle is in Austria. How many diifferent families and whips are there? You would think that if another family made a weapon to hunt vampires, they would at least use a sword or something.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on December 30, 2010, 05:39:10 PM
CotM came out before AoS was even a glimmer in IGA's eye so at the time it fit. The Baldwins are not members of the Belmont family but Nathan is. Chronologically, Nathan's mother would've been the child of Annet and Richter. She would've married into the Graves family and then given birth to Nathan.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Nagumo on December 30, 2010, 05:52:57 PM
CotM was orginally supposed to be an alternate universe story, making it not very likely Nathan had any ties to the Belmont family at all. Since it's a sidestory now the explanations that makes the most sense is that there exist similair whips to the VK such as Nathan's Hunter's Whip or Curtis' Holy Whip. Families such as the Baldwins are perhaps one of the clans mentioned in OoE that arose to replace the Belmont family after they disappeared, or they're only active in Austria.     
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on December 30, 2010, 07:05:25 PM
CotM came out before AoS was even a glimmer in IGA's eye so at the time it fit. The Baldwins are not members of the Belmont family but Nathan is. Chronologically, Nathan's mother would've been the child of Annet and Richter. She would've married into the Graves family and then given birth to Nathan.

-X

But has that ever been confirmed? Or is it nothing more than a theory? Your post makes perfect sense, but unless it was confirmed by someone at Konami, we don't really know if it's true.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on December 30, 2010, 07:11:47 PM
I love how Dracula mocks Morris about his looks.

The pot calling the kettle black  :P
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 30, 2010, 08:35:52 PM
The Baldwins are either successors to Belmonts, or they are an alternate family.  Nathan Graves has no relation to the Baldwins.
In CotM's Introduction, when Dracula is revived by Carmilla in Austria, he recognizes the old man "Morris Baldwin" (Hugh's father, and teacher to both Hugh and Nathan Graves).  He specifically says "You have aged."  This puts another adventure and another Dracula resurrection around the times of Symphony of the Night, as Circle of the Moon takes places a few decades afterwards.

The is an Epileptic Trees (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees) theory that Morris Baldwin was actually Richter Belmont, as an outcast, with his name changed, and thus a Belmont Line is lost, and an alternate whip had to be used since the Vampire Killer couldn't be used for some crazy reason.

Of course it makes more sense if there are alternate timelines.  With St.Germain and Aeon now part of an IGA vision, it is no longer as farfetched as it was before.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on December 30, 2010, 09:27:28 PM
I've never read the book and thought Quincy was the british guy.  My bad. 

The son was only created to make him the sucessor of the belmont clan.  It is stupid to even try to fit the book into castlevania because not only did they make the son somehow watched Quincy fight Dracula when he was five.  Wasn't Quincy supposely single in the book?
It a case of secret history of sorts. In Stoker's novel, Quincy's single, but in the CV's version, he was a father. It's a different take, and I, frankly, never had a problem with this. It's just like Dracula, who's "different" in CV than any other Dracula lore. Dracula in CV isn't the same Dracula we read about in Stoker's book, but in CV, the events described in Stoker's book take place, but differently. Just like how Dracula is older than OUR Vlad III, yet died the same year. But in CV's world, their Vlad III was really the vampire Dark Lord, ours isn't. Same for Elizabeth Bartley initiating WWI. You don't have to like the new takes on history or literature, but I, personally, don't see them hard to swallow. I have no problem with viewing Stoker's novel and CV's take on the events as being two separate entities.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on December 31, 2010, 04:10:40 AM
But has that ever been confirmed? Or is it nothing more than a theory? Your post makes perfect sense, but unless it was confirmed by someone at Konami, we don't really know if it's true.

Exactly. It's not officially confirmed nor will it ever be. It was just my way of putting the pieces together as do a lot of other series fans and it does fit as one plausable senario.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Nagumo on December 31, 2010, 07:48:00 AM
I have no problem with viewing Stoker's novel and CV's take on the events as being two separate entities.

Me neither. If I would read that book and pretented it fitted in Castlevania's chronology, I would probably give up in frustration because of how out of tone it is with the series.     
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 08:41:21 AM
I think he should give the series closure with the 99 war, but at the same time, I really cant bear to see the modern era end with Dawn of sorrow. It was fun, but come on. Aria was better, and the artstyle blew. The plot was sorta bland too. a cult outta nowhere has a castle base connected to hell? Celia as a villain was pretty damn shallow too. about as shallow as Dracula in the original castlevania. she just banters a bit, laughs, and teleports. Teleports, mind you. Not to mention it went into this new direction of turning Dracula into this sort of opposite of God figure, a "dark lord" who is the anthesis of God, when he was always just an evil immortal angry at God.

To be honest- was Dawn really needed? It was fine with Aria. Soma plot twist discovers his true identity, and manages to finally destroy the flow of chaos that fuels the castle and Dracula's powers, banishing the castle back into the eclipse for good, if not outright destroying it- putting an end to Dracula, and freeing himself of his dark destiny, basically living his life out as a normal person. Same for Julius, who had mentioned that as Chaos was defeated, he felt vampire killer weaken. That could be interpreted as Sara's soul finally being able to rest now that not only Dracula has been defeated for good, but his essence, his source of power, and his very estate.

shit. I overthought again.

Er- yeah. closure. give us that damn young Julius '99 game, and make Koijima do her thing, Making a pretty boy 18 year old Julius to kick ass with.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 08, 2011, 06:31:23 PM
I think he should give the series closure with the 99 war, but at the same time, I really cant bear to see the modern era end with Dawn of sorrow. It was fun, but come on. Aria was better, and the artstyle blew. The plot was sorta bland too. a cult outta nowhere has a castle base connected to hell? Celia as a villain was pretty damn shallow too. about as shallow as Dracula in the original castlevania. she just banters a bit, laughs, and teleports. Teleports, mind you. Not to mention it went into this new direction of turning Dracula into this sort of opposite of God figure, a "dark lord" who is the anthesis of God, when he was always just an evil immortal angry at God.

To be honest- was Dawn really needed? It was fine with Aria. Soma plot twist discovers his true identity, and manages to finally destroy the flow of chaos that fuels the castle and Dracula's powers, banishing the castle back into the eclipse for good, if not outright destroying it- putting an end to Dracula, and freeing himself of his dark destiny, basically living his life out as a normal person. Same for Julius, who had mentioned that as Chaos was defeated, he felt vampire killer weaken. That could be interpreted as Sara's soul finally being able to rest now that not only Dracula has been defeated for good, but his essence, his source of power, and his very estate.

shit. I overthought again.

Er- yeah. closure. give us that damn young Julius '99 game, and make Koijima do her thing, Making a pretty boy 18 year old Julius to kick ass with.
This.  AoS should just be the end point on the time line.  With that in mind, all we really need is two or three games to fill in some gaps in the story:  1) the 1999 game, 2) a game explaining why the Belmont's can't use the whip until 1999 after SotN and why they seem to vanish aside from that one village, 3) a game between LoI and CVIII explaining how Mathias went from being a just a very powerful vampire to "The Dark Lord".
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 09:36:02 PM
Mind you, the Belmonts were still around, but they handed the whip to the Morrises while they dropped off the map. After all, they WER, as you said, in the village in OoE.

My guess? They were likely training and preparing in hiding to prevent another Richter from happening. As he was not only mind controlled by Dracula's followers, but almost caused the Belmont bloodline to be forcefully ended by Alucard. And hey, looks like whatever they did worked, because Julius was and is a fucking beast, replacing Richter as "most powerful" (If "most powerful Vampire hunter" is to be taken that way)
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on January 09, 2011, 09:33:56 PM
As he was not only mind controlled by Dracula's followers, but almost caused the Belmont bloodline to be forcefully ended by Alucard. And hey, looks like whatever they did worked, because Julius was and is a fucking beast, replacing Richter as "most powerful" (If "most powerful Vampire hunter" is to be taken that way)

Julius's powers fizzled out in DoS. He was as badass nor as powerful as he was in AoS. AoS should've been the only game made as it didn't do any of the characters justice. Least of all, Julius.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Lumas on January 14, 2011, 11:00:42 PM
This.  AoS should just be the end point on the time line.  With that in mind, all we really need is two or three games to fill in some gaps in the story:  1) the 1999 game, 2) a game explaining why the Belmont's can't use the whip until 1999 after SotN and why they seem to vanish aside from that one village, 3) a game between LoI and CVIII explaining how Mathias went from being a just a very powerful vampire to "The Dark Lord".

I totally agree with this. Though I would like to see them fix the Mathias thing maybe have Vlad go after him kill him, claim his powers in order to save his home land then after Lisa's death get pissed at humanity for betraying him since he damned himself to save them from the invasion of Mathias' monsters, but thats just me.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on January 14, 2011, 11:05:07 PM
I don't think a single game would be adequate to fill in the 300+ years between Lament & CVIII. That period alone could be filled by several games for the next 10 years.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Lumas on January 14, 2011, 11:09:07 PM
I don't think a single game would be adequate to fill in the 300+ years between Lament & CVIII. That period alone could be filled by several games for the next 10 years.

True.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on January 14, 2011, 11:13:11 PM
Then again, Cox is starting a new timeline with LoS so who knows if Konami even cares about the old mythology anymore!
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Lumas on January 14, 2011, 11:17:49 PM
Then again, Cox is starting a new timeline with LoS so who knows if Konami even cares about the old mythology anymore!

Again very true, but is HoD considered cannon? Ive been away from some time now so I dont know if it is or is not. However if it is considered "cannon" then maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel for the timeline.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: KaZudra on January 15, 2011, 12:01:55 AM
IgaVania - Stays and should stick to innovating his games, GIVE HIM Inafune, they can make the next best castlevania no doubt
CoxVania - Lord of the Whips is a great timeline!
AlternaVania - This is where the Non-canon games go, you can make a really good timeline (most of my fan material is in this)

3 universes. Marvel has...... 10,209,072,309,434,536,624,757,433,456,846 and produces 1/4 more each year
I don't see why not, I dno't think the term Reboot should have been used, more like in an alternate timeline since IGA is working on the new Castlevania for the 3DS (not officially announced but hinted toward it in an interview) and COx is Preping LoS : the Two Towers for later this year i bet.

Long live Igavania and Castlevania : the Fellowship of the Whip!
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on January 15, 2011, 12:15:21 AM
I totally agree with this. Though I would like to see them fix the Mathias thing maybe have Vlad go after him kill him, claim his powers in order to save his home land then after Lisa's death get pissed at humanity for betraying him since he damned himself to save them from the invasion of Mathias' monsters, but thats just me.

I want to see this fix too. It would allow IGA's game to remain in the timeline and "fix" up the blunder he made.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: KaZudra on January 15, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
hint: Gabriel was adopted and was given the name Gabriel, he gave himself the name Belmont because he liked mountains, his birth name unknown, but since everyone in LoS has lived up to thier Namsake... that means......

WHAT IS A MAN!?
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on January 15, 2011, 12:29:43 AM
Quote from: Kamui Zero
COx is Preping LoS : the Two Towers for later this year i bet.

hahahaha i wouldn't be surprised.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 15, 2011, 03:27:22 AM
I totally agree with this. Though I would like to see them fix the Mathias thing maybe have Vlad go after him kill him, claim his powers in order to save his home land then after Lisa's death get pissed at humanity for betraying him since he damned himself to save them from the invasion of Mathias' monsters, but thats just me.
Well, if something like were to happen, it could make some sense.  I mean, Mathias never had a problem with humans.  He just became a vampire so that he would be immortal and thus defy God's decree of limited life.  The Dracula we all know from the early games hates humans and wants to make them extinct.  But, why Vlad would want to go after Mathias?  For all we know, Mathias has no intention of harming humans.  Also, Death seems loyal to Mathias.  Why would he betray Mathias?
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on January 15, 2011, 05:13:04 AM
But, why Vlad would want to go after Mathias?  For all we know, Mathias has no intention of harming humans.  Also, Death seems loyal to Mathias.  Why would he betray Mathias?

Death obeys those who possess the Ebony and Crimson stones. If Vlad got his hands on them then Death would turn on Mathias. As for Vlad going after Mathias? It would be out of revenge. According to history, King Matthias imprisoned Vlad for a duration of six years while his younger brother was given the Romanian throne; by none other then king Matthias. Eventually Vlad got on Matthias' favorable side and regain his freedom. With Matthias' help, Vlad raised an army and retook the throne from his brother. In the castlevania story, it could be presented that Vlad, after winning his freedom and regaining control of Romania, went after Mathias and exacted his revenge. Mithais dies and Vlad takes the two stones back with him. Death becomes his eternal servent and so-on and so-fourth.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on January 15, 2011, 06:50:19 PM
But, why Vlad would want to go after Mathias?  For all we know, Mathias has no intention of harming humans.  Also, Death seems loyal to Mathias.  Why would he betray Mathias?

Death obeys those who possess the Ebony and Crimson stones. If Vlad got his hands on them then Death would turn on Mathias. As for Vlad going after Mathias? It would be out of revenge. According to history, King Matthias imprisoned Vlad for a duration of six years while his younger brother was given the Romanian throne; by none other then king Matthias. Eventually Vlad got on Matthias' favorable side and regain his freedom. With Matthias' help, Vlad raised an army and retook the throne from his brother. In the castlevania story, it could be presented that Vlad, after winning his freedom and regaining control of Romania, went after Mathias and exacted his revenge. Mithais dies and Vlad takes the two stones back with him. Death becomes his eternal servent and so-on and so-fourth.

-X
Death does NOT obey the one who possesses the Ebony stone, only the Crimson Stone, and even the specifics to this relationship isn't touched upon. Death simply states, "This power I offer to the king who wields the Crimson Stone!". That's it. At most, Death basically offers a soul to his master, which is Mathias, but it doesn't state specifically that Mathias is his master because of the Crimson Stone, only that Death is offering Walter's soul to the one who wields the Crimson Stone. Again, Death has no alliance with Walter.

And as far as IGA's timeline is concerned, Mathias and Vlad are one-in-the-same, just like Samuel Langhorne Clemens and Mark Twain are one-in-the-same, as are Reginald Dwight and Elton John.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on January 15, 2011, 08:11:14 PM
I have to respectivly disagree. Vlad and Mathias are not the same and here's why:

1. Vlad was a medieval butcher who took delight in torturing his enemies as well as his own people. He wasn't a very handsome dude either and he ruled Romania with an iron fist. He lost his own wife to suicide (like in Bram Stoker's Dracula), but Vlad remained stronge and continued on till his assassination in 1476. Vald was also praised as a hero to his people for defending them from the Ottoman turkish invasion.

2. Mathias is an emo-prettyboy who became bedridden at the lose of his wife and could only gain any form of real power through alchemy (The Chrimson stone) because he wasn't strong enough to pick himself up. He was merely a tactition and had no battle experience (Unlike Vlad).

I know that these "Mathias Vs Vlad or Dracula" stuff has been done to death. But IGA's personal view of Dracula just pales in comparison to the one we all knew.

Death does NOT obey the one who possesses the Ebony stone, only the Crimson Stone, and even the specifics to this relationship isn't touched upon. Death simply states, "This power I offer to the king who wields the Crimson Stone!"

I do remember that line, but what it does tell me is that Mathias, who has the Chrimson stone, is Death's lord and master.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on January 15, 2011, 08:29:21 PM
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debate over
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 15, 2011, 08:37:22 PM
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debate over

what he said ^^^
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on January 15, 2011, 08:38:43 PM
Exactly. You don't have to like that Mathias is Vlad, but in IGA's CV, he is.

I do remember that line, but what it does tell me is that Mathias, who has the Chrimson stone, is Death's lord and master.

-X
But that's exactly what I said too. Mathias IS Death's lord and master, and happens to be the wielder of the Crimson Stone(as well). Same thing. But it didn't specifically say that the Crimson Stone is the reason why Mathias is Death's master. It's one of those accounts where people might read too much into things. And, considering how IGA treats the Crimson Stone as simply a plot device for Mathias to gain his power to become the Dark Lord, and it's significance and power is lost, YET Death remains loyal to Dracula after his reincarnation as Soma(no doubt Death would love Soma to claim his Dark Lord status so things could go back to normal).
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on January 15, 2011, 10:14:45 PM
YET Death remains loyal to Dracula after his reincarnation as Soma(no doubt Death would love Soma to claim his Dark Lord status so things could go back to normal)

Where did you read this? I've played AoS and DoS but have never encountered such info, cut-scenes or otherwise. You fight death in both those games but there is no dialogue. Is there a website?

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: KaZudra on January 15, 2011, 10:46:45 PM
yeah, but since soma was good, he is stonger that evil to truimph, but to turn evil at his peak is what makes Soma's Boss fight Much Harder than Dracula, and dracula didn't fully use the power of dominence, thus his reincarnation did.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Lumas on January 15, 2011, 11:43:40 PM
what he said ^^^

Debate not over, because it would be an attempt to fix that little crazy thing IGA did with Mathias being Dracula really no one is debating that they are different yes they are the same in IGAs universe but what we were discussing is if they attempted to fix that whole mathias being dracula thing if they decided to do that. Not saying they should, though i would prefer it personally. But anyway there was no debate over the two being different just that if they did fix it and if they were debating then thats just silly you guys.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Lumas on January 15, 2011, 11:47:34 PM
Debate not over, because it would be an attempt to fix that little crazy thing IGA did with Mathias being Dracula really no one is debating that they are different yes they are the same in IGAs universe but what we were discussing is if they attempted to fix that whole mathias being dracula thing if they decided to do that. Not saying they should, though i would prefer it personally. But anyway there was no debate over the two being different just that if they did fix it and if they were debating then thats just silly you guys.

Course by that logic then yeah the debate would be over since there should not have been one to begin with lol
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: KaZudra on January 16, 2011, 12:51:56 AM
If Mathias was not Dracula, why does Soma Resemble him so much?
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Munchy on January 16, 2011, 12:58:04 AM
Wait... Mathias changes his name and outfit? Oh man, I'd love some artwork with Mathias wearing one of those Groucho nose-and-glasses things in the middle of a crowd.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on January 16, 2011, 02:00:10 PM
YET Death remains loyal to Dracula after his reincarnation as Soma(no doubt Death would love Soma to claim his Dark Lord status so things could go back to normal)

Where did you read this? I've played AoS and DoS but have never encountered such info, cut-scenes or otherwise. You fight death in both those games but there is no dialogue. Is there a website?

-X
Again, the little hints when Dracula's not around shows Death's loyalty. Especially in PoR. Then, of course, there's the novella that takes place after DoS(the one with Curtis Lang) where Olrox seeks to take over Dracula's reign of darkness, and is super pissed at him because of it. Death still seems loyal to his long gone Master, and that's after both Sorrow games. Though, it would be interesting to have a full translation of the novella to get the specifics.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 16, 2011, 09:19:00 PM
I surprised that Death didn't have a bigger role in the Sorrow games, especially in AoS (I don't really like to think of DoS as cannon due to the fact that it doesn't really impact the overall story).  I mean I would think that he can sense Soma's dark power.  I would have made it so that Soma encounters Death several times.  The first time would be the following:
Death: Interesting.  What is a kid doing in my late master's castle? 
Soma: I'm not here by choice.  Some how I was transported.

A battle begins.
D: You're pretty strong kid.  I also sense that you have a dark power.  Who are you?
S: My name is Soma.  All I'm looking for is a way to get home.
D: Well Soma, I'll let you live for now.

The second meeting:
D: Still alive I see.  You seem to have gotten stronger and your power is very familiar.  Fascinating. 
S: What do you mean familiar?
D: Your powers resemble those of my late master.  How does a human possess them?
S: I don't know. I first became aware of my abilities when I came to this castle.
D: Is that so?  I wonder...  No, it can't be!!!  I must be going, there are others in the castle to deal with.

Third encounter:
Soma arrives in a room where he witnesses Arikado and Death arguing
Arikado: What are you planning?  Your master is gone.
Death: You forget the prophecy.  I am waiting for the new master to ascend to the throne.  I have already encounter a few individuals how may be the one. You are one of them.
A: Never!!! I'll never follow in His footsteps!!!
Soma: Arikado!!! What is going on!?  What does he mean that you are one of them!?
A: That doesn't matter.  You still have to do what I told you.
D: Arikado?  So, that is the name you're using now.  Interesting.  Farewell for now.
S: What does he mean "the name you're using now"?
A: It's irrelevant.  You just need to focus on getting to the throne room.

Forth encounter:
After beating Graham, but before the fight with Julius.
Death: So, I was right.  You're the one.  You're my new master.
Soma: I want nothing to with you.  All I want is to return to the way I was before I came to this castle and go home.
D: You would abandon all this power?  So, be it.  We'll see if the next person will ascend to the throne.  However, in the mean time.  I will destroy you.

After the fight:
Death: Damn you!!!  You could rule the world if you want too.
Soma: Sorry, but I have no interest in that.

The rest of the game is the same until after the final boss:
At the shrine game
Mina: You're finally awake
Soma: Are we back
M: yes.
S: Good.
Arikado: You did well.  Yoko has been brought to a hospital for further treatment.
S: Now that it's over, I want to know everything:  Who are you, really? And, why did it seem that you had encounter Death before?  I was as if you two knew each other for a long time.
A:  Fare enough.
Arikado transforms into his true form (Alucard)
Soma & Mina together: What!!!
M: So beautiful!!!!
A: This is my true appearance.  My name is irrelevant.  I am Dracula's one and only child.  However, my mother is human.  And, yes, I've known Death for centuries.
S: Then why not ascend to the throne?
A: I'm not evil and I don't want to follow in my father's footsteps.
S: What about Julius?  Aren't you worried that he may try to kill you?
Julius: I won't.
S: Why?
J: He has been my family's greatest ally for centuries.

This is some of my thoughts that could have been used in AoS that would have given Death a bigger role.  I'm thinking about writing a fan fiction of AoS using these ideas.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Flame on January 17, 2011, 01:12:59 AM
I'm surprised that Death, y'know, the master of souls, doesn't recognize his master's soul. I would think he would want to stop Graham from claiming his master's powers. And that he would want Soma to become Dracula once more.

Although then again, by the time Soma was already on the brink of light and dark, Death was well, dead. (defeated again, anyway)
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Chernabogue on January 17, 2011, 09:05:32 AM
The storyline of AoS/DoS would have been a lot better than it is with a more important role for Death. In almost every newer game, Death had an important role (final LoI boss, Zead in CoD, final boss in PoR w/ Dracula, etc.) I can't believe they didn't make any dialogue with him.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: CapComMDb on January 17, 2011, 05:03:16 PM
There's this same kind of Sakamoto bashing on practically every Metroid forum. People on the get so riled up about someone they haven't even met just because he makes a game they don't like. So much anger, yet so impotent to do anything...  ;D

Let's put it this way:

Iga has made good games in the past.
Iga's other main contribution was to solidify a timeline that had previously been a random collection of games.
Practically nobody in this industry can write for beans (and now Kojima is included), so hire the people who can.
If Iga can make another good Castlevania, then who cares?

The only trouble is Iga needs to do something fresh. He's been remaking the same game for the past 10 years. 2D Castlevania is thus starting to look a lot like Mega Man. If he can't do anything new that sells, then Konami will give the series to someone else. That's really what it comes down to, and Lords of Shadow is proof of that.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: X on January 17, 2011, 05:17:58 PM
That whole Death/Soma/Arikado thing would've put a lot more substance into the game. But I was thinking on just how non-productive DoS was and I could see this whole affair giving it much, much more substance then what was already there. It would've made the story progress just that much more and DoS would be a much better game. That and minus the whole using souls to make weapons thing. That dragged the game on too long  in a bad way.

-X
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Sumac on January 17, 2011, 06:12:42 PM
Quote
Iga's other main contribution was to solidify a timeline that had previously been a random collection of games.
Actually solid timeline existed before IGA.
He added new stuff, retconed some things, and overcomplicated it with some...questionable elements, like Dracula origin and Sorrow plot.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Flame on January 17, 2011, 06:20:41 PM
The Death/Dracula thing works in Julius mode in DoS, since Soma is Dracula, buuut since he fights you regardless of Dracula...
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 17, 2011, 08:00:18 PM
Death really should have either become the new dark lord or played a more active role in finding a new one.  He also should have tried to get Soma to question how trust worthy Arikado really is.  I mean, Soma knows next to nothing about him.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: crisis on January 18, 2011, 09:24:02 PM
picture's worth a thousand words

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Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Munchy on January 18, 2011, 11:46:15 PM
Not that this has anything to do with anything, but I'd like to see a new Sorrow game with a 50 year old Soma so he has a mustache and looks as badass as Julius.
Title: Re: IGA --Le Requiem?
Post by: Alutwon on January 19, 2011, 02:17:56 AM
Death really should have either become the new dark lord or played a more active role in finding a new one.  He also should have tried to get Soma to question how trust worthy Arikado really is.  I mean, Soma knows next to nothing about him.

That actually would have been pretty cool, but way too complex for the rest of story