Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Dracula9 on July 28, 2013, 01:44:53 PM
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I was mulling over ideas for Haunted Castle, and the thought came to me.
Can he leave the walls of Castlevania, or is he confined to its borders?
I don't think he's restricted to the place, but he's never really actually left it AFAIK (bear in mind I've never played Curse, or beaten Dark Legacy or 64 fully, as well as a few other titles, so I may just be misinformed on this one). Granted, in some instances he's not IN his own Castle; like in Circle, he's in an already-existing castle in Austria, but the argument could be made that his power "takes over" the place and makes it into a placeholder Castlevania. There's also nothing mentioned in the traditional origin story (LoI) that says he's not allowed out of his domain's borders, either.
Anybody got anything more viable on this?
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Yes, Rondo's Stage 3' is your proof. If you pay attention to the background you'll know what I'm talking about.
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Yes, I think too. I think he met Lisa outside Castlevania so, yeah.
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Yes, Rondo's Stage 3' is your proof. If you pay attention to the background you'll know what I'm talking about.
That's supposed to be Drac? Huh. I never thought of that, I always thought it was just some guy who looked like a matador.
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Yes, Rondo's Stage 3' is your proof. If you pay attention to the background you'll know what I'm talking about.
Thats not a proof, because we need to prove that this shadowy figure is Dracula, a thing that even IGA knows as he stated in a interview xD
Yes, he can leave the castle as seen in the 64 games, in Carrie bad ending he leaves the castle with her (in Malus form). Also Dracula is out of the castle in SCIV opening in bat form, in Bloodlines he was in Castle Proserpina and IIRC we can see him in cutscene in Dracula X Chronicles for PSP, its him with Shaft (or Shaft alone, I cant remember) that invades the village to kidnap Annete. Also in Judgement he is outside the castle, in Bram Stoker too and we never received a information saying anything about him being stuck in Castlevania, so yes, he is free xD
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"Castrevania-chan, keep an eye on the intruders for me ~kay?"
"Hai, Dracura-sama! <3"
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I think he can too. Let's not forget that in AoS the castle exists before Soma even arrives. Thus, the castle doesn't need him to be present. Also, in SotN, the castle is there even though Dracula hasn't been resurrected yet. He just chooses not to leave. It's his seat of power. If he ever left for an extended period, it is likely that someone may attempt to usurp the throne.
As for why his castle always crumbles when he dies, my guess is that when he dies, there is some sort of energy wave released from his body that damages the castle enough to cause it to crumble.
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He just chooses not to leave. It's his seat of power. If he ever left for an extended period, it is likely that someone may attempt to usurp the throne.
This is what I was kind of looking for, thank you.
As for the "why" on my end, I've been mulling over the idea of giving Dracula a third form that isn't fought until the VERY end of the game, after escaping the majority of the castle (or escaping it entirely), and ambushing Simon and Serena as a final attempt to catch Simon off his guard and kill him. Don't know if I'll pursue it, but I just wanted this question pondered as a safety net if I do.
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People seem to have forgot, that Dracula actually survived his battle with Christopher in The Adventure (we see him depart in bat form right after the castle is destroyed*). He is dormant for 15 years until Soleiyu comes of age, and he corrupts him, etc. The question is, where exactly was he hiding for so long?
*In Mirror of Fate's ending, we also see Alucard in bat form depart the castle as soon as it's destroyed, most likely a nod to CVA.
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Also there was the beginning in DXC in the village where he and Shaft both capture Annette.
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Some info:
-I think the Rondo of Blood Dracula stage3' thing is made simpler in The DraculaX Chronicles, where the silhouette is even easier to identify.
-Carmilla's Castle in Circle of the Moon is not in Romania, but in Austria, I believe, and he resides there for a while.
-Dracula exists in The Castle Proserpina with Elizabeth in England.
-Also, the other examples people mentioned.
-In Lords of Shadow's epilogue, he's residing in an abandoned church somewhere in a city. That's most likely not his castle. :P
So it's safe to say that he can leave the castle.
This also matches the stories in Bram Stoker's Dracula, both book and movie.
It's possible that his power is weaker outside of the castle but 'citation needed'. :P
Maybe as long as he's got 'earth from his property' it'll work just fine, like in Bram Stoker's novel?
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It's possible that his power is weaker outside of the castle but 'citation needed'. :P
Maybe as long as he's got 'earth from his property' it'll work just fine, like in Bram Stoker's novel?
That's what I was thinking, but I figured it'd be safer to ask people who know more about the series than I do.
Also there was the beginning in DXC in the village where he and Shaft both capture Annette.
I thought about that, too, but there's one thing that kills it for me. He doesn't appear to really be "there," and looks more like he's projecting an astral body of himself. I don't personally count that as physically being outside his realm's grounds.
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That this question exists demonstrates the lameness of the "Prince of Darkness" -_-
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That this question exists demonstrates the lameness of the "Prince of Darkness" -_-
How so? Similar limitations have been placed on the undead in myth and folklore for thousands of years. Such as that a vampire must return to the soil he was buried in before daybreak for example. Part of the price of eternity.
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So he's the prince of the Castle or whatever, not the world greatest threat. The worst part is that he didn't leave his place at dawn, no, he never left his damn chair in 25 years, come on. I love the games as much as the next guy but trying to find a compelling villain in there is a fool's errand. The worst part is that the new series didn't give us that, as Dracul is a little more in the "tragic hero" side. Until the next reboot then, I fear.
This is my BIGGEST rant reason to the series, it's my favorite one but I'll argue until the end of time, no matter the developer no matter the quality even until I can have a villain good enough to match the potential of the series.
This is my little confession: Castlevania frustrates me.
It might as well be the series with the biggest potential in the medium (hell, it has the biggest potential to be /cross medium/) but for 25 years it's been met with such... baffling choices and managements, it makes me sad to think of what could be.
And sorry, I know this is me right now:
(http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud.jpg)
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Some info:
-I think the Rondo of Blood Dracula stage3' thing is made simpler in The DraculaX Chronicles, where the silhouette is even easier to identify.
-Carmilla's Castle in Circle of the Moon is not in Romania, but in Austria, I believe, and he resides there for a while.
-Dracula exists in The Castle Proserpina with Elizabeth in England.
-Also, the other examples people mentioned.
-In Lords of Shadow's epilogue, he's residing in an abandoned church somewhere in a city. That's most likely not his castle. :P
So it's safe to say that he can leave the castle.
This also matches the stories in Bram Stoker's Dracula, both book and movie.
It's possible that his power is weaker outside of the castle but 'citation needed'. :P
Maybe as long as he's got 'earth from his property' it'll work just fine, like in Bram Stoker's novel?
Of course someone has to beat me to it XD as long as he has dirt from his castle he can go anywhere he used it on his ship iirc.
So he's the prince of the Castle or whatever, not the world greatest threat. The worst part is that he didn't leave his place at dawn, no, he never left his damn chair in 25 years, come on. I love the games as much as the next guy but trying to find a compelling villain in there is a fool's errand. The worst part is that the new series didn't give us that, as Dracul is a little more in the "tragic hero" side. Until the next reboot then, I fear.
This is my BIGGEST rant reason to the series, it's my favorite one but I'll argue until the end of time, no matter the developer no matter the quality even until I can have a villain good enough to match the potential of the series.
This is my little confession: Castlevania frustrates me.
It might as well be the series with the biggest potential in the medium (hell, it has the biggest potential to be /cross medium/) but for 25 years it's been met with such... baffling choices and managements, it makes me sad to think of what could be.
And sorry, I know this is me right now:
(http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud.jpg)
Not the only one man it ranks up there with Zelda and stuff it's greatest advantage is that it's able to grab from so much yet it's not used to it's greatest ability . But dracs drac :)
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I've been wondering about this for years. Here's one fanon explonation.
Chaos gives Dracula immense power, but his curse confines him to stay inside the castle. The further he gets away from the castle and longer he stays, the weaker he gets. Think of the Castle as coffin of some vampire lore. I think essentially Drac got duped somehow or accepted this fate, because all he cared/cares is/was killing humans and cursing God. He's the lord of the castle, but he depends on its presence.
All in all, Drac is not and has never been the real big bad. He's a (willing?) puppet of chaos and, ironically, human wickedness.
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... Dracul is a little more in the "tragic hero" side.
I would go as far as saying that's all he is. Outside of cut scenes and back story anyway. Let's not forget that the only game in the trilogy where he appears as a boss he's encountered in the same throne room as in the original timeline.
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Thats not a proof, because we need to prove that this shadowy figure is Dracula, a thing that even IGA knows as he stated in a interview xD
I'm pretty sure IGA confirmed in an interview that it was Dracula. What more proof do you need? :P
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A question that pops in my mind that in one of the endings of Castlevania 2 and in the beginning of Super Castlevania 4, Dracula pops out of the grave. Is the grave even near to the castle? And does the previously destroyed castle rebuild itself before his arrival or at the time he reaches its location in this world or in another dimension?
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I can answer the castle question. The castle can be summoned with or without its master.
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Yeah I thought as much :D I just wonder if Dracula comes back and castle is waiting for him and he is like honey I am home :P or does he have to enter through a dimension and get back his impounded castle.
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That grave is also incredibly similar to the grave in Super Castlevania IV, which is why some people for a while thought Super Castlevania IV was a sequel to Simon's Quest (the intro text certainly did not help).
(http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/c2/c2ending1b.gif) and (http://tcrf.net/images/1/1f/Super_Castlevania_IV_intro_comparison_1.png)
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Well as a kid I thought of sequel too. Still I do like Dracula rising out of Grave better in SC 4 then in Castlevania 2. Maybe Simon or previous Belmont buried him outside of Castle before 4 so he would be weaker.
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If it is true that Dracula can't leave Castlevania, then he is probably the biggest threat and yet the smallest threat at the same time. I mean theoretically all you would have to do is put a gigantic holy/dimensional barrier around it to prevent his minions from getting out and that's that. Threat neutralized.
I hope that it isn't the case in the LoS saga (even though it already appears to be the case) and that who ever gets the series next decides to allow Dracula some more freedom and lets him out of the castle without any consequences.
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Concerning Dracula in the LoS series:
After Simon and Alucard team up to defeat him, right before Simon delivers the deathblow Dracula teleports away, so he must've fled the castle upon it's destruction.
In the LoS epilogue, that church he's hiding in was built around the remains of the castle, which is why Zobek has to smash through that sealed wall to get to him (pretty sure Cox confirmed this in one of his tweets). He's also briefly seen wandering on the street in the LoS2 trailer.
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If it is true that Dracula can't leave Castlevania, then he is probably the biggest threat and yet the smallest threat at the same time. I mean theoretically all you would have to do is put a gigantic holy/dimensional barrier around it to prevent his minions from getting out and that's that. Threat neutralized.
Except that his minions don't all come from the castle. There's hordes of them around the countryside in SQ, even though the castle is down. Or just simply bodies risen from the graves, like in Rondo's intro.
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I think Dracula could leave the castle. I mean, many accounts his resurrection was held outside of the castle's grounds(CV1/Chronicles and RoB he's seeming resurrected in an old defunct monestary). I don't think he needs the castle to exist more than it's an extention of his will. It's become something like a machine that he powers as it's battery. How far his control goes outside of the castle is the real question(there's perhaps some control if the castle immediately comes "alive" when he's resurrected, even if it's out of the castle grounds), but I doubt he can leave if he pleases and still retain his powers even if he does. He just chooses not to.
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I'm pretty sure IGA confirmed in an interview that it was Dracula. What more proof do you need? :P
You remember the site where I can find it? I've also seen a interview where he says that even he doesnt know the answer, but I've never seen a interview where he says otherwise. Im interested in this now :(
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Oh and has anyone mentioned the Bram Stoker explanation that Dracula carried boxes of the earth he was buried in and planted said boxes in different places in London so he would be able to return to it to rest? Depending on how canonical you consider the book to be to CV lore that could settle this question rather quickly.
So he's the prince of the Castle or whatever, not the world greatest threat. The worst part is that he didn't leave his place at dawn, no, he never left his damn chair in 25 years, come on. I love the games as much as the next guy but trying to find a compelling villain in there is a fool's errand. The worst part is that the new series didn't give us that, as Dracul is a little more in the "tragic hero" side. Until the next reboot then, I fear.
This is my BIGGEST rant reason to the series, it's my favorite one but I'll argue until the end of time, no matter the developer no matter the quality even until I can have a villain good enough to match the potential of the series.
This is my little confession: Castlevania frustrates me.
It might as well be the series with the biggest potential in the medium (hell, it has the biggest potential to be /cross medium/) but for 25 years it's been met with such... baffling choices and managements, it makes me sad to think of what could be.
And sorry, I know this is me right now:
Hm I don't agree with your assessment but I think I understand and can sympathize with it.
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Stoker's my-dirt-in-a-box notion has been brought up, yes. Twice, IIRC.
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You remember the site where I can find it? I've also seen a interview where he says that even he doesnt know the answer, but I've never seen a interview where he says otherwise. Im interested in this now :(
From Japanese DXC official guide book page 126 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-rob/tdxc-guidebook.htm)
Translation
IGA: I think that the person is ...... Dracula. (Laugh) He is quietly looking at the appearance from a long distance.
But, IGA isn't RoB staff. This is his speculation.
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I think Castlevania always had Dracula in the castle, and even more, in his throne room.
There's no official explanation, but I guess the clues lead to a Dracula who can never get out, or just doesn't want to.
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Stoker's my-dirt-in-a-box notion has been brought up, yes. Twice, IIRC.
Good, was feeling pretty tired and was skimming a bit, but wanted to make sure that point wasn't missed.
Don't have much else to add to the topic personally, except that I think Dracula is best when he is that fellow waiting at the end. Generally, he doesn't send out his minions because he's weak or afraid of the hero, but because the hero is beneath him. Sitting on his throne he shows his contempt for the Belmont or whichever other hunter might be foolish enough to come after him, even when they arrive he doesn't take them seriously until the fight starts to go against him, and he shows his (current) true form. Like all great and truly menacing evil doers he could get his hands dirty but chooses not to, he's a master planner, a general brooding in the shadows.
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Generally, he doesn't send out his minions because he's weak or afraid of the hero, but because the hero is beneath him. Sitting on his throne he shows his contempt for the Belmont or whichever other hunter might be foolish enough to come after him, even when they arrive he doesn't take them seriously until the fight starts to go against him, and he shows his (current) true form. Like all great and truly menacing evil doers he could get his hands dirty but chooses not to, he's a master planner, a general brooding in the shadows.
This. It's pretty much his magnificent bastard personality that makes him one of my favorite villains. I hope that whatever reboot happens, there will be an arrogant Dracula to throw wine glasses and look down on everyone.
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Don't have much else to add to the topic personally, except that I think Dracula is best when he is that fellow waiting at the end. Generally, he doesn't send out his minions because he's weak or afraid of the hero, but because the hero is beneath him. Sitting on his throne he shows his contempt for the Belmont or whichever other hunter might be foolish enough to come after him, even when they arrive he doesn't take them seriously until the fight starts to go against him, and he shows his (current) true form. Like all great and truly menacing evil doers he could get his hands dirty but chooses not to, he's a master planner, a general brooding in the shadows.
My opinion is that that modus operandi should have been present in the first 2 or 3 games, but after 10 defeats you'd think he'd change his strategy, wouldn't he? He's a master tactician after all.
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But he's died so many times he hardly remembers who he used to be. After SotN, I don't think he is seen to show in reminiscing anything about his pre-Dracula life.
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That's because you guys KEEP trying to make the history of the game relevant. It's a game, specially on the NES days, the story was relegated to a manual. It wasn't supposed to be deep or anything like that, it was a game to be played, only. It was a cliche, the big, bad guy on the last room, always thinking that no one would touch him.
I think they never thought that Castlevania would grow that big.
Plot was always secondary in Castlevania. That's why the story isn't really that good on the old canon. And with LoS, it's even worse, they used another cliche, making the first hero the villain.
The only aspect I'm interested in Dracula is how much difficult it is to defeat him. Only the first games, COTM, Rondo (PSP) he poses somewhat of a danger... but mostly, he's really a cakewalk. I wish to fight a very hard Dracula someday...
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Dracula in CV1 on NES is extremely difficult.
I agree though. I don't think Konami thought CV would become so big.
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That's because you guys KEEP trying to make the history of the game relevant. It's a game, specially on the NES days, the story was relegated to a manual. It wasn't supposed to be deep or anything like that, it was a game to be played, only. It was a cliche, the big, bad guy on the last room, always thinking that no one would touch him.
I think they never thought that Castlevania would grow that big.
Plot was always secondary in Castlevania. That's why the story isn't really that good on the old canon. And with LoS, it's even worse, they used another cliche, making the first hero the villain.
The only aspect I'm interested in Dracula is how much difficult it is to defeat him. Only the first games, COTM, Rondo (PSP) he poses somewhat of a danger... but mostly, he's really a cakewalk. I wish to fight a very hard Dracula someday...
Yes, we know that. But it's more fun to think of in-universe explonations to old game design restrictions. Certainly more interesting than ignoring that Big Boss is terribly ineffective as a stealthy super soldier in MG and MG2 and all the other silliness Kojima hardly needs to even handwave. Just to draw a comparison to a series that, if handled in ways other than retcon and ignoring in order to build a coherent continuity, would have a huge burden to deal with.
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Of course he can leave the castle. Dracula showed up at my house last Halloween asking for candy.
He was shorter than I was expecting.
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But, IGA isn't RoB staff. This is his speculation.
Thanks, thats the exact same interview where he says that even he doesnt know for sure, so yeah, atleast in RoB we cant have sure. IDK if in DXC its more obvious :(
Only the first games, COTM, Rondo (PSP) he poses somewhat of a danger... but mostly, he's really a cakewalk. I wish to fight a very hard Dracula someday...
Try Castlevania: Dracula X for SNES.
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Thanks, thats the exact same interview where he says that even he doesnt know for sure, so yeah, atleast in RoB we cant have sure. IDK if in DXC its more obvious :(
Try Castlevania: Dracula X for SNES.
That fight is extremely difficult. Unlike other Dracula battles, you are on a set of pillars. Each of which are different heights. Dracula does the same old teleport/fireball routine, but one hit (especially from the black flaming orbs) is enough to knock you off into a bottomless pit.
In my experience, the boomerang and holy water don't work well. I just find the lowest pillar and use the axe. It seems to work pretty well for a strategy.
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Yeah, there's that one...
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Dracula in CV1 on NES is extremely difficult.
I agree though. I don't think Konami thought CV would become so big.
Try Albus Mode in OoE or Max Level 1 in PoR.
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Even better, try Albus Mode in Hard Mode, its really difficult, Im almost beating it (I stopped trying for a time), only one more boss and then I will battle Dracula.
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I'm not gonna read through four pages...
Did anyone even once bring up Haunted Castle? He flies out and steals Simon's bitch.
Haunted Castle (Intro) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Aif3hqTYQ#)
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Yeah, in the very first post, lol
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I'm not gonna read through four pages...
Did anyone even once bring up Haunted Castle? He flies out and steals Simon's bitch.
Haunted Castle (Intro) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Aif3hqTYQ#)
Yeah, I'm remaking Haunted Castle, and this thread's question is relevant to it.
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He also leaves the castle in DXC when he tells Shaft to snag Annette.
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There's also this bit from CV64's manual:
In earlier times, peace and prosperity reigned across the land, and no-one thought to question their good fortune or fear for the future...
Then, in the middle of the 19th century, a dark shadow spread across Wallachia, Transylvania, home to many a vampire legend. The spirits of the depraved and corrupt had roused the king of evil from his enforced sleep of 100 years...
Shapeshifting into a bat, a wolf, or coils of mist, he stalked the land...
(...)
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Which is also (I think) part of his legend in Rondo of Blood.
I think it can be confirmed that he can indeed leave the castle.
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Come on guys, your answer is here:
Castlevania The Dracula X Chronicles - Opening - PSP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLA6UEGNBQ0#ws)
He is in a church outside the castle and he can use his powers, since he can transform to a bat and as the intro says in the end, he walks among us and fist upon our blood.
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I dunno... I think we need more proof. At least another page's worth.
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I suppose the summary is: he can leave the castle, but is strongest inside it. Or just likes it better there. Or both.
Meh, what's there's to do for him outside? Just loathsome humans. I suppose the slaughters were amusing to him once upon a time, but after hundreds of years even the "embodiment of suffering" might get bored of it. But a man's got to be consistent, especially when you've got style. So he sits on his throne, looking like a badass, sipping blood (or wine) and probably takes a nap or plays Angry Birds until someone storms the throne room.
Either way, the answer to the question is yes.
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To me its like that:
He can leave the castle and thats it, he isnt stronger inside it or anything like that. Castlevania is only one more of his servants that wish his lord to return and rule the world.
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I probably should have been more specific in the beginning, lol.
I guess I was needing to know more if his powers waned with distance between he and the Castle, moreso than "can he walk out the door?"
It'll probably make more sense if I spill the beans. I thought about having his first two forms be close enough to the original (complete with goofy bighead), and once he vanishes there, you leave (with Serena if the good ending's done). Once you're outside the castle/right at its threshold, he ambushes you in sooper-dooper monster form as a last-ditch effort to ice you. All while the sun's about to come up (that part might have to change, I don't think Drac would be SO desperate to kill Simon that he'd outright risk immolation, but we'll see). I needed speculation/clarification on whether he'd even be able to manage a Greater Demon form while outside his Fortress of Solitude AND weakened in status.
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I probably should have been more specific in the beginning, lol.
I guess I was needing to know more if his powers waned with distance between he and the Castle, moreso than "can he walk out the door?"
To me, that makes the most sense. As a lord, he probably also considers leaving his castle beneath him.
Or maybe Walter's cat and mouse playing mentality infected Mathias's genius tactician mind. DUN DUN DUNN.
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Castlevania is a product of Dracula's own power. He can leave and return whenever he wants. It's not a prison, it's his own house of horrors that he made. He's the master of Castlevania and the Master is never the prisoner in his own domain.
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I can only say that: I would never expect Dracula to leave his castle only to kill a Belmont, but if its at last near the exit, its plausible. I've only seen he using dirty tricks out of his castle (like mind control, kidnapping, etc) but never saw he killing a Belmont with his own hands. Otherwise he could have killed Soleiyu and everyone in the village instead of kidnapping him.
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Bear in mind this is on the assumption the player gets the good ending. The bad one will result in Serena being turned. You can imagine how that goes. I'm also planning on having Dracula's mentality allude towards him losing Elisabetha, but not be totally aware of his past life. He'll have the pain be his motivator for taking Serena (and also to give that pain to Simon and potentially halt the continuation of the Belmont line), but the memory is mostly gone.
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It seems that you think like me in some aspects, I dont think that he is not aware of his past life (atleast until symphony) but I think that he kidnaps ladies only to make humans feel the same thing that he have gone through in the past.
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Honestly, I don't think the conjunction between Elisabetha from LoI and Lisa from Symphony were thought about UNTIL Lament, myself. If it even was at all. It's hard to think about it from a full plot perspective if that's the case (which I really think it is). I don't think Dracula retains all memories from being Mathias, personally. I think he slowly loses more of his humanity with each successive resurrection, as that involves some form of being bathed in pure evil and chaos (or something like that). That being said, memory of events and memory of emotion are not mutually exclusive. I think he can remember the pain caused him by humanity and "good," but not entirely so what those completely were.
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I've always wondered how Dracula met Lisa. Maybe, before when the Belmonts were still exiled (before CV3), Dracula would occasionally go out for blood himself and happened to notice Lisa walking around one night and stirred something within him. It could have been "love" (or maybe lust) at first sight for him and he could have started to seduce her and eventually she came to live in the castle. Eventually, she puts up with enough of the evil in the castle and leaves with their son. Years later, a plague comes through the village and Lisa uses her knowledge of herbs (which she could have learned from someone or something in the castle) to help reduce to suffering of the sick (she probably couldn't cure them). The religious authorities mistake her use of herbs for witchcraft and execute her. I bet that the execution was done during the day so even if he still loved her and knew where she lived, he wouldn't be able to save her. Humans killed to one person he loved, but he didn't know who so they had to die.
My guess is that with each resurrection, he forgets more and eventually forgets why he wants to exterminate all humans. It's only when confronted by someone he has an emotional attachment to (like Alucard) that he remembers things.
As for why he doesn't leave much, he probably hates the humans so much that he won't get his kill them himself. Or, he just thinks it's beneath him.
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Except that Mathias wasn't evil before Lisa was murdered. I mean, he wasn't a nice guy before. Having your best friend's betrothed vampirized and using him as a pawn are not nice things to do. But he wasn't like evil in a kill-everyone-kind-of-way. Not quite a dark lord. According to IGA, Mathias lived rather peacefully until Lisa died.
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I've always wondered how Dracula met Lisa.
Lisa treated his wounds. Atleast that is what I've read somewhere.
Or, he just thinks it's beneath him.
Thats what I think.
Honestly, I don't think the conjunction between Elisabetha from LoI and Lisa from Symphony were thought about UNTIL Lament, myself. If it even was at all. It's hard to think about it from a full plot perspective if that's the case (which I really think it is). I don't think Dracula retains all memories from being Mathias, personally. I think he slowly loses more of his humanity with each successive resurrection, as that involves some form of being bathed in pure evil and chaos (or something like that). That being said, memory of events and memory of emotion are not mutually exclusive. I think he can remember the pain caused him by humanity and "good," but not entirely so what those completely were.
Oh, you are talking about Mathias memories, I was talking about his memories as Dracula. Its obvious that after SoTN he starts to forgot things and lose is real motive, to me he is like a empty jar after hearing Lisa's last words.
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See, that's something about the series that's always bothered me. You'd think after hearing her true final words, especially with the message they were carrying, Dracula would have had some sort of revelation/epiphany and die peacefully. But no, he keeps on coming back and causing shenanigans. So, either there's yet another plothole in CV's timeline, or Dracula's intentions are relevant to the intentions of those who resurrect him before his time, I think. That case is pretty fucking disturbing, in that it renders Dracula a literal puppet to chaos and/or the evil desires in the hearts of those who summon him (man, talk about getting Shafted), and it really downplays him as a villain and makes him more of a tragic Faust than anything. Which kind of defeats his purpose as Dark Lord/Demon King, IMO.
I've always wondered how Dracula met Lisa. Maybe, before when the Belmonts were still exiled (before CV3), Dracula would occasionally go out for blood himself and happened to notice Lisa walking around one night and stirred something within him. It could have been "love" (or maybe lust) at first sight for him and he could have started to seduce her and eventually she came to live in the castle. Eventually, she puts up with enough of the evil in the castle and leaves with their son. Years later, a plague comes through the village and Lisa uses her knowledge of herbs (which she could have learned from someone or something in the castle) to help reduce to suffering of the sick (she probably couldn't cure them). The religious authorities mistake her use of herbs for witchcraft and execute her. I bet that the execution was done during the day so even if he still loved her and knew where she lived, he wouldn't be able to save her. Humans killed to one person he loved, but he didn't know who so they had to die.
My view on that has always been that of Lisa being an exception (this is on the assumption that she and Elisabetha aren't the same person/reincarnation. I know they look different, but Dracula drastically changes forms sometimes (DXC's Spanish look, anyone?)) amidst the humans. It would have to be that she was the only human who didn't look at Dracula as a monster, but as a man, and could love him for she bore no prejudice in her heart. That would naturally come as a surprise to the guy who's spent centuries being called "monster" and had his death sought for just as long. I would imagine that not only served as more than enough for him to spare her, but enough for him to regain just enough of his humanity to love her. I'd kill(or just savagely maim) for Konami to release something that told the story of their time together.
Buuuuuut, then assholes had to happen and piss him off again. Oh, joy. I wouldn't mind a trailer or something showing his massacre the night after. That'd be fun.
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Well, after LoI, he only hated God for taking away someone he loved deeply. He became a vampire to defy God's decree of limited life for humans. I don't really think he hated humans until after Lisa was killed.
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I'm sure they had to be a nuisance to him, though. I mean, there's a seven hundred year gap between Lament and Symphony. If he didn't harbor some degree of contempt for humans during that period, why would it have taken THAT long for him to fall for someone? I'm sure there would have been at least one other human female who was good-hearted in that span.
Also, I just realized this whole tangent is eerily similar to Sparda's tale in the (original canon) Devil May Cry plot.
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I think that, upon dying and returning, something is always lost, but the 'instincts'... the underlying raw, bare emotions, those desires... that is what manifests.
Anger, Rage, Hatred, Lust... Hunger...
...I think I saw somewhere that that's the reason zombies are still able to move.... their unending hunger is one of the baser instincts, and thus, it is what keeps them moving upon being reanimated.
So upon being resurrected, Dracula's memories become blurry, but he seems to remember the hatred; that hatred for humans. At times he seems to remember where it came from. Other times, he has a very one-track mind and lmost no fortitude nor desire to tactically carry out a full-blown plan (which we also have discussed as being so possibly due to early resurrections taking yet another toll on both his strength and his mind).
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I think that, upon dying and returning, something is always lost, but the 'instincts'... the underlying raw, bare emotions, those desires... that is what manifests.
Anger, Rage, Hatred, Lust... Hunger...
...I think I saw somewhere that that's the reason zombies are still able to move.... their unending hunger is one of the baser instincts, and thus, it is what keeps them moving upon being reanimated.
So upon being resurrected, Dracula's memories become blurry, but he seems to remember the hatred; that hatred for humans. At times he seems to remember where it came from. Other times, he has a very one-track mind and lmost no fortitude nor desire to tactically carry out a full-blown plan (which we also have discussed as being so possibly due to early resurrections taking yet another toll on both his strength and his mind).
This is also relative to LoS's Dracula, where as in the Trailer in LoS2 he wonders how he has got there and slowly remembers his past.
If this also applies to the Main CV Timeline, it would make sense since post-SoTN it seems Dracula is always being killed shortly after resurrection.
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Or maybe being "dead" for Dracula is just like a severe coma. He's brain dead, really. When they resurrect him, his brain has been dead for not just months or years, but for decades. When a person is comatose for months (or year), if and when they regain consciousness, there's typically some memory loss. Now multiply that by 20 or 30 or even 50. Then multiply that by how many times someone lopped off big D's head. That's some serious potential memory loss. But then, since the Japanese are romantics, a bit of memory of the heart remains like in "The Girl Who Leapt Through Time" (2010).
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SotN's ending may have been the end of the remnants of Mathias Cronqvist's personality. There was a big ball of light and beams that pointed upwards. I know they probably didn't mean anything particular with that, but I thought that was interesting. All the other times he explodes into a meaty mess or burts into flames after transforming into something hideous. He hears Lisa's words - the ones that basically eat away his motivation (you know, Al could have told him about that sooner, don't you think? Could it be our stalwart dhampire do-gooder actually thought humans deserved to die?), says farewell to Al and makes a kind of peace between them. Then he disappears into the light. About the happiest ending he could hope for.
But he cursed himself willingly centuries ago and chaos or whatever doesn't just let him go. There was a price to pay for all that power. So from that point, he's basically just a shell that remembers only hate. I mean, there are powers above him, obviously. The kind of powers Death is suggested of truly serving instead of him. Only Julius finally freed him from that.
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(you know, Al could have told him about that sooner, don't you think? Could it be our stalwart dhampire do-gooder actually thought humans deserved to die?)
It's either that (in this case Magnus might have been saying the truth) or Allie just wanted to have a conversation with his dad without any outsider listening in.
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What did Magnus say exactly? I've been meaning to listen to that radio drama, which, I assume, you're referring to.
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I dunno about SotN marking his shift to pure monster. I mean, he was straight-up monster-mashin' in all of Simon Belmont's adventures against him. I just think he was more personal in SotN because he was up against his son one-on-one. Makes me wonder how the conversation would go in a remake of CV3, and I don't mean no pachislot title either.
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Not to pure monster, but a monster without self.
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Yes, it seems as though after SotN he is just after destruction pure and simple. He just doesn't care about anything anymore. It's as if he's had a psychotic break or something. He has literally gone from revenge to just because I can. Although he seems calm on the surface, he is likely nothing more than someone who craves destruction almost like Kefka from FF6 (just not outwardly insane). All this after SotN. Beforehand, he would just await in his throne room for the "hero" and simply fight to the death, or he would use some insidious plot like with Christopher's son or what he did in RoB/DXC. We never see that after SotN. Not only that, but he seems to take pleasure in dealing with intruders as well. In PoR, he just writes off Jonathan and Charlotte and in OoE, when Shanoa says that she will kill him, he says that he hasn't danced in ages. He was never that arrogant before SotN.
It just seems like after he heard what Lisa's last words were, anything left of humanity and attachments disappeared leaving only that thirst for destruction. Makes me wonder how he would react to Alucard in the 1999 event (something we will probably never know).
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Hey, thanks for you guys considering my theory, expanding and adding/mixing it instead of making fun of it. IIRC in HoD acts strangely too, maybe it is somehow connected with his powers too? Like "more memories = more anger and agony = more power"?
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SotN's ending may have been the end of the remnants of Mathias Cronqvist's personality. There was a big ball of light and beams that pointed upwards. I know they probably didn't mean anything particular with that, but I thought that was interesting. All the other times he explodes into a meaty mess or burts into flames after transforming into something hideous. He hears Lisa's words - the ones that basically eat away his motivation (you know, Al could have told him about that sooner, don't you think? Could it be our stalwart dhampire do-gooder actually thought humans deserved to die?), says farewell to Al and makes a kind of peace between them. Then he disappears into the light. About the happiest ending he could hope for.
But he cursed himself willingly centuries ago and chaos or whatever doesn't just let him go. There was a price to pay for all that power. So from that point, he's basically just a shell that remembers only hate. I mean, there are powers above him, obviously. The kind of powers Death is suggested of truly serving instead of him. Only Julius finally freed him from that.
Perhaps that heavenly beam took with it the total remainder of his humanity, similar to the Lords of Shadow? His last remnants of goodness and love left his body to ascend to Lisa's company(or Elisabetha if they're two different entities, never quite clear on that), and all that's left is a semi-immortal shell of the centuries of festering hatred and anger, bringing about the drastic change in his behavior after SotN.
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Well, lets remember that this beam can also be only a common special effect for the castle destruction, since it happens even if you didnt reach the inverted castle endings and they've used the same effect in HoD. Anyway it sounds interesting and even if the beam is irrelevant I dont think that the rest is.
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What did Magnus say exactly? I've been meaning to listen to that radio drama, which, I assume, you're referring to.
If I recall correctly, Magnus told Maria that Allie is not the man she thinks he is, since Allie had done evil deeds in the past.
Makes me wonder how he would react to Alucard in the 1999 event (something we will probably never know).
Hmmm... we can speculate on how it might go but, in the end, we need that game! ;)
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If I recall correctly, Magnus told Maria that Allie is not the man she thinks he is, since Allie had done evil deeds in the past.
Hmmm... we can speculate on how it might go but, in the end, we need that game! ;)
It's possible that Alucard was evil at one point. After all, in SotN, when you first encounter Death, he alludes to that:
Death: Ah Alucard, what is your buisness here.
Alucard: I've come to put an end to this.
Death: Still befriending mortals? I will not ask you to return to our side, but I demand you cease your attack.
Alucard: I will not.
Death: You shall regret those words... We will meet again.
It really makes you wonder if Alucard sided with his father at one point against humans. Possibly right after Lisa's death. I could see an emotional Adrian (Alucard) going berserk after witnessing his loving mother's death at the hands of humans. I'm sure I would have if I was in his shoes. He probably left Dracula's side after calming down, but not after terrorizing some humans. That's also why he decided to fight against evil instead of just living a quiet life somewhere. He may be trying to atone for any evil he may have done.
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I have seen Alucard in full Turncoat mode before:
(http://f.ptcdn.info/987/006/000/1373205289-AlucardCap-o.jpg)
LAWLz! :3
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I have seen Alucard in full Turncoat mode before:
(http://f.ptcdn.info/987/006/000/1373205289-AlucardCap-o.jpg)
LAWLz! :3
I've always hated this depiction of him.
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I have seen Alucard in full Turncoat mode before:
(http://f.ptcdn.info/987/006/000/1373205289-AlucardCap-o.jpg)
LAWLz! :3
ALL RIGHT! VAMPIRES RULE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2dqMxzYnBU#)
You need to hear the dialog to truly appreciate captain n Alucard