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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 10, 2013, 02:34:06 AM

Title: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 10, 2013, 02:34:06 AM
I'm trying to remember, was it ever explained why Gabriel killed the blonde girl? That just seemed completely random and silly to me. "Oh, thanks for helping me kill this Golem I STAB YOU IN THE FACE NOW."

I've just been thinking about this, and it's bugging me.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: The Puritan on September 10, 2013, 03:52:33 AM
Wasn't it because
(click to show/hide)
?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Flame on September 10, 2013, 03:54:07 AM
Quote from: The Puritan on September 10, 2013, 03:52:33 AM
Wasn't it because
(click to show/hide)
?
The Devil mask.

Pay attention to Zobek's dialogue at the end. (as well as the cut scene imagery) He's been manipulating Gabriel the whole time with the Devil mask. He puts it on Gabe's face, and is able to control him.

He made him kill his wife, he made him kill Claudia.

It's the reason when Pan puts him through the puzzle, he sees himself stabbing Marie. That was the truth shining through.

The Dark gauntlet is inconsequential to Zobek's control over Gabriel. However, it is the reason he made him kill Claudia. So that Gabriel would fight the Black Knight Golem. he knew he would win, and he knew he would gain the Dark gauntlet from it. The Dark gauntlet being a dark magic artifact of Hell, which allows Zobek to manipulate it, using it to kill Gabriel with it's magic.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 10, 2013, 12:31:36 PM
I don't understand, what is the Devil Mask? I don't remember it being mentioned in the game. Is it missable?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: KaZudra on September 11, 2013, 03:59:04 AM
Quote from: Beaumont_Belmont on September 10, 2013, 12:31:36 PM
I don't understand, what is the Devil Mask? I don't remember it being mentioned in the game. Is it missable?

Devil mask is the broken-ish looking God Mask, Zobek plants it on Gabriel when he sleeps, note why Zobek makes a big deal why get is restless and such
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: jestercolony on September 11, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
Alright, this is purely speculation - but I have kept asking Cox time and time again, with no answer. So I am beginning to think I stumbled on to a plot device secret. If you paid attention to the old time line very carefully and understand Dracula as a character, you will see the huge twist.


Now, the whole reason why Claudia was killed was because Gabriel needed the Dark Gauntlet. How this was done was due to the Devil Mask this unholy artifact was used to manipulate Gabriel, but what is so important about it? Well, if you understand the relationship of Dracula and Death in the old time line, you will make some odd conclusions.

1. "I fought hordes of Demon's and become strong" - Zobek
1a. "I capture evil souls so that he may devour them." - Claudia.
1b. "The Gauntlet is the key, there will be a time when you will be in great need of it." - Pan

Now, these two applications, think very carefully with what you see Gabriel do with the gauntlet through out the game and especially at the end of the Resurrection DLC when the Forgotten One; and if you guessed right now that Dark Gauntlet wields the Power of Dominance; the ability to absorb and rule over ALL monsters.

Now as for the Devil Mask? Well, lets take a minute here... The whole story was about uniting the three powers, which we all assumed was the God Mask.  But we find out, the true power of the Mask was to see through God's Eyes. So we need to kick that out of the equation.  The actuality of the story was to unite the power of the Lords of Shadow

- The Dark Gauntlet: Death (The power of Dominance)
- The Cyclone Boots (Still trying to figure out this explanation to this.)
- The Seraph Shoulders (I assume used to make Gabriel a partial Angel during the battle with Satan)

Now as for the Devils Mask - you will need to understand these particular quotes from Zobek/Death very carefully.

"Reap the whirlwinds Scions of Death, for here comes the Prince of Darkness."

This quote was one of prophecy, Zobek knew that  Gabriel was going to slaughter The Forgotten One; this inheriting the title: Prince of Darkness.

But now we have this interesting journal entry from the journal, and you will need to read this very carefully if you understand Dracula.

"Look at him, so dark, so beautiful, he has come for his revenge and he shall have it. A killing machine without remorse, without pity. What happen to you, Gabriel? Love has blinded you but you have changed, my friend. Your quest is almost over, the dream is in sight. Now you must face death and you must defeat it. The mask is a powerful device and he who wields it can do anything! Bring back the dead, rule the world, destroy the universe, challenge God himself. You are the one, Gabriel. You are the one!"

1. Bring back the Dead
2. Rule the World
3. Destroy the Universe
5. Challenge God Himself

...This doesn't sound like the God Mask, now does it?

At the beginning of the first DLC (Reverie) you see Gabriel holding the mask. At the "secret" ending prologue, you see that Gabriel/Dracula has worn the Devil Mask for so long, it has become apart of him.

But this is all pure speculation.

"

Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 01:55:41 PM
Quote from: KaZ on September 11, 2013, 03:59:04 AM
Devil mask is the broken-ish looking God Mask, Zobek plants it on Gabriel when he sleeps, note why Zobek makes a big deal why get is restless and such

I guess I missed both the God and Devil masks. I skipped some of Patrick Stewart's narration, was it in that?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Ahasverus on September 11, 2013, 02:25:56 PM
Quote from: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 01:55:41 PM
I guess I missed both the God and Devil masks. I skipped some of Patrick Stewart's narration, was it in that?
How could you miss the God mask? It was the point of the entire game

Quote
At the beginning of the first DLC (Reverie) you see Gabriel holding the mask. At the "secret" ending prologue, you see that Gabriel/Dracula has worn the Devil Mask for so long, it has become apart of him.
I don't remember this.

Edit: Oh I think you mean when the lighting strikes? I think that was Gabriel's young face, not the devil's mask, but that's just me.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 02:32:52 PM
I'm not kidding, this is the first I'm hearing of either the God or Devil masks. I remember Gabriel wearing a mask in a couple of scenes but I don't remember this ever having an explanation.

On a side note, a mask, really? Is this Castlevania or Splatterhouse?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Flame on September 11, 2013, 03:45:18 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_hYqwiWLj3-w%2FTKRvAXgrZ1I%2FAAAAAAAAAvA%2FLTiGXsWnhMI%2Fs1600%2Fcastlevania-lords-of-shadow.jpg&hash=56da089cf15a4eba46736942f4a0f8db6ecd9acf)

God mask on left, Devil mask on the right.

Quote from: jestercolony on September 11, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
The Dark Gauntlet: Death (The power of Dominance)
- The Cyclone Boots (Still trying to figure out this explanation to this.)
- The Seraph Shoulders (I assume used to make Gabriel a partial Angel during the battle with Satan)
Keep in mind, and this might be important, that the Dark gauntlet is said toi be a demonic artifact forged in hell. I mean, how the fuck did an Aghartan get a hold of such a thing?

Also, I thought it was obvious that the gauntlet was the power of dominance? Don't you get the ability to absorb orbs once you get it?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 04:23:18 PM
See, I would have just thought those masks were just part of the artwork, like the gargoyle in the back of SoTN's file select screen. I'll find the cutscenes on YouTube and filter through, them but I don't remember "God Mask" or "Devil Mask" being mentioned at all in the game.

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/273147-castlevania-symphony-of-the-night-playstation-screenshot-main.jpg
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Flame on September 11, 2013, 05:49:35 PM
Because the Devil Mask is never actually mentioned in game. It's never referred to by name. Zobek just shows up with it in the final scenes after the Dracolich, puts it on, and becomes the final Lord of Shadow. From there, we see flashbacks that show Gabriel killing Claudia and Marie while wearing the mask. usually with Zobek behind him.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 06:01:31 PM
Um...if it's never actually mentioned in the game, how do we know what it's called or what it does?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Ahasverus on September 11, 2013, 10:01:43 PM
Quote from: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 06:01:31 PM
Um...if it's never actually mentioned in the game, how do we know what it's called or what it does?
We don't. That's the point. The God mask IS the plt device of the whole game and it's mentioned since the first titan fight and becomes the last goal. I'm surprised how you NEVER saw it, as you now, it appears each time a lord is killed and stuff.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 10:50:21 PM
Well, the boss fights- especially the titans- were really tedious, so I probably left the room to get a soda or something. The one that throws the rocks took me like an hour to finish, so I needed a break.

So the mask had something to do with Gabriel defeating the Lords of Shadow and eventually
(click to show/hide)
then? And Gabriel killed the blonde girl under its influence?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Flame on September 12, 2013, 12:18:01 AM
The pieces of the God mask were given when you defeated a Lord of Shadow. (also when you defeated the Dracolitch i think)
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 12, 2013, 12:27:40 AM
Ahh, the Dracolich. Just in case I thought MercurySteam had frontloaded the tedious boss fights at the start. All I'm really remembering is how much I disliked the game now.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: KaZudra on September 12, 2013, 01:30:49 AM
Dracolich, the reason you praise the existence of the dark crystal...
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Ahasverus on September 12, 2013, 02:15:17 AM
Hey, beaumont, you haven't played the game. Stop lying.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 12, 2013, 03:36:12 AM
I played it about a year ago. In fact I think that was probably what spurred me to sign up for this forum.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Ahasverus on September 12, 2013, 03:38:49 AM
Quote from: Beaumont_Belmont on September 12, 2013, 03:36:12 AM
I played it about a year ago. In fact I think that was probably what spurred me to sign up for this forum.
Sorry but the whole "I saw the artwork never saw them in game, oh so they were there I skipped the (unskippable) Patrick Stewart narrations, oh they weren't in the narrations? aah I was totally going for a soda in the 45 cutscenes of the game" is unbelievable by any means.
And if it's right, you need serious memory check.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 12, 2013, 03:42:30 AM
Again, I played it a damned year ago. I don't remember exactly the circumstances under which I missed these apparently critical plot details. Why would I have this question if I had not played the game and it was subsequently bugging the hell out of me?

Seriously? I have questions about the plot and I get "Oh, well obviously you haven't played the game". If that's how you're gonna be, you're not helping in this thread. Get lost.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Gunlord on September 12, 2013, 04:27:46 AM
Yeah, I think I'm with Beaumont here. No reason to be so confrontational, Ahasverus. Memories can get jumbled up in a year, if it's been that long it's unsurprising he doesn't recall a lot of stuff, especially if he wasn't paying close attention. I myself zone out of cutscenes a lot if they're unskippable. If you can answer his questions, then answer them cordially and peacefully. Act cool and he, I, and everyone else here will be happy to be cool to you in return. However, if you're just going to accuse him of "lying" or whatever, I'll politely ask you to leave the thread. No reason for any of that off-topic stuff.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: DoctaMario on September 12, 2013, 11:34:12 AM
I've played the game a bunch, but I won't lie, there are still things that don't quite make sense to me about the story. I wondered about why Gabe killed Claudia, but I assumed it was just because he needed the Gauntlet and the only way to get it would be to get the Dark Knight riled up. And of course the only way to do THAT would be to kill Claudia.

But the Devil Mask is one aspect of the game I felt like they could have explained better. Or at all.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Flame on September 12, 2013, 12:13:00 PM
They do though. Or rather, it explains that Zobek has been manipulating Gabriel, causing him tragediesto push him on. The mask was simply a device to do that
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 12, 2013, 06:19:23 PM
Beaumont, did you play the game blind, or muted, (or blind AND muted) or something?
Or, did you play someone else's completed game file and just his "SKIP" on every cutscene?

Because the whole God Mask thing is, like, the main driving force of the game.  Though there's no mentioning of the Devil Mask in-game, it is alluded to quite a few times.
I do agree that the Devil Mask bit could've been explained a little better.

The Devil Mask is right there during the end credits.  You see the Zobek has it on during the cutscene after the Dracolich battle.
He mentioned that he 'traveled to hell itself' and that there he 'found knowledge'.  The devil mask is how he uses such knowledge.

Everything after 1:53:43 is about this.
http://youtu.be/NM81xmwakOg?t=1h53m43s (http://youtu.be/NM81xmwakOg?t=1h53m43s)
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Asgardwolf on September 12, 2013, 08:57:16 PM
I thought it was absolutly clear and explained in the cut scene above... To me it was obvious after watching this the first time that Zobek found this devil`s mask when he traveled to hell looking for power and it was used/gave by Satan to manipulate him as it was used by him to manipulate Gabriel the whole game...

But after reading this thread is hard to tell if he really missed the whole plot thing of the game or if he`s just trolling arround...
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 12, 2013, 09:00:19 PM
Jorge, isn't that introductory line in violation of the rules that you yourself posted against insulting/belittling other forum members? That aside, here's the Chapter 12 trophy to put to rest the idea that I didn't play the game.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BT_2Js2CAAAnShL.jpg)
See, I didn't know that was an actual mask. I thought that was just Zobek's face or something. My lack of understanding probably wasn't helped by the overly florid/theatrical language and the interminable length of the cutscenes (I have a short attention span sometimes, sorry). Still, none of this answers to me why Gabriel needed that Gauntlet and by extension why Gabriel murdered the blonde girl. How did this help Zobek? How did Gabriel's wife know about Zobek's plan? I understand Gabriel's motivations (wanting to resurrect his wife) and no one else's.

I apologize for forgetting what the game's McGuffin was, FFS. I haven't played the game since I finished it last year. I think some lapses in memory can be forgiven.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Mike Belmont on September 12, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
I understand our friend Beaumont´s situation. The whole story of LoS is in times complex and plot-twist in the end (thanks to Kojima, I believe). The stuff with the masks was Cox creation. I remember that in the begining, he said that masks was important part of the Castlevania lore... well, aside from the Carmilla mask in Simon´s Quest and Dracula´s mask in SCVIV, I don´t know of other games wher the masks were an "important part" of Castlevania (Maybe the Dracula´s third form in CVA Rebirth...).

I play and finish the game a few months ago, and I find the Zobek dialogues a little tired... in fact, at the final chapters i prefer to skip it when the combat cross/loading was full, and the same to the messages of the fallen soldiers (I don´t remember his names). In resume, I simply don´t like the LoS history, but, as always, it is my opinion...

...I remember the old times, were the whole plot was to enter the castle and kill Dracula...
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: beingthehero on September 12, 2013, 11:02:41 PM
The primary thing I remember about Zobek's narration was about how DARK and CONFLICTED and SLEEPLESS gabriel was supposed to be even though he acted and looked the exact same way from the very beginning to the very end.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 12, 2013, 11:11:52 PM
Quote from: Beaumont_Belmont on September 12, 2013, 09:00:19 PM
Jorge, isn't that introductory line in violation of the rules that you yourself posted against insulting/belittling other forum members? That aside, here's the Chapter 12 trophy to put to rest the idea that I didn't play the game.

I don't think so, and I think you'll find few who would agree with you that it is.
I did not call you any belittling names.

I will concede that it's been a while since the game came out, so it's possible that the finer details of the story may have been obstructed by time... but the deal with the God Mask and Devil Mask were quite well shown (I even showed you the video and pointed to the specific cutscene in question), and as Asgardwolf's post shows, there are people who picked up on those details enough to remember them.

Moreover, the previous posts of yours, as shown the opinions some people have, lead me to be confused as to whether you've honestly forgotten what happened in what are possibly the most important cutscenes the games has, or whether you are trolling (and yes, I see the image, but that could've been a family member finishing the game - I have a PS3 with a nearly-completed Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 file, but I never touched the game).

As an administrator, I have to look at all possibilities here.  I will give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume you're trolling, but in that case, you've forgotten what are very important parts of Lords of Shadow's plot, something which the other forum members have made you well aware of.

Lastly, I'm quite aware of what the rules are, here.  If you feel I've wronged you, you're welcome to send me a private message with your grievance, but I will defend my opinion and my conclusions when confronted about them.

I don't think it's out of line to say, essentially, that you forgot the main plot points of the end of the game, so you were either playing blindly or muted everything, or weren't paying attention.  You even said it yourself:

Quote from: Beaumont_Belmont on September 11, 2013, 01:55:41 PM
I guess I missed both the God and Devil masks. I skipped some of Patrick Stewart's narration, was it in that?

The God Mask was mentioned.  The Devil Mask was not mentioned, but was both worn, and alluded to in the game (you could not miss it unless you weren't looking at the game, or listening to the dialogue, during those scenes, hence my statement), when you see Zobek put it on in the cutscene I posted.  Then, during the ending credits, it's staring at you in the face for a while.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 13, 2013, 12:09:01 AM
Quote from: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 12, 2013, 11:11:52 PM
Moreover, the previous posts of yours, as shown the opinions some people have, lead me to be confused as to whether you've honestly forgotten what happened in what are possibly the most important cutscenes the games has, or whether you are trolling (and yes, I see the image, but that could've been a family member finishing the game - I have a PS3 with a nearly-completed Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 file, but I never touched the game).

I don't know why everyone is so stuck on telling me I didn't play the game when I did. I don't know how to convince you that I did if photographic evidence doesn't do it. I'm the only one that uses my PS3, for what it's worth.

I did watch the video you provided, and it was pretty difficult to sit through to the point where Satan showed up (about 6 minutes)simply because most of it was Zobek grandstanding and saying a lot of words without actually saying anything of value. I've reiterated that I have a short attention span for that sort of thing.

I didn't ask this question to troll. I asked this question because I have one playthrough of the game under my belt almost a year ago. I thought I would ask a question that could be answered by people that understood the plot better than me and perhaps had the benefit of more numerous and recent playthroughs of the game. I guess I asked the question in the wrong way or something because people started jumping down my throat and telling me I didn't play the game instead of answering my question.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 13, 2013, 12:22:52 AM
Nah, it's all good, dude.
The first responses pretty much nailed it with regards to what happened.

It's only when you said that you didn't know about the masks that people went like this
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F006%2F026%2Ffuturamafry.jpg&hash=05a3c9b07490ad631b9c422fa9db9bef348ff103)

Now that it's all been cleared up, was your question answered?
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 13, 2013, 12:28:54 AM
The main question, yes. I still don't really understand Zobek's motivations (unless it's just power?) or how he actually is going about fulfilling them, but I'm trying.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Ahasverus on September 13, 2013, 12:35:15 AM
Quote from: Beaumont_Belmont on September 13, 2013, 12:28:54 AM
The main question, yes. I still don't really understand Zobek's motivations (unless it's just power?) or how he actually is going about fulfilling them, but I'm trying.
He wanted to kill the other Lords of Shadow but he couldn't do it so he used Gabriel, to get the God Mask that was said to be so powerful to challenge god himself, however he was ALSO played with by Satan who used zobek to use gabriel to get the mask and challenge god.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 13, 2013, 12:37:35 AM
Well, that pretty much answers that.
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: KaZudra on September 13, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
...You see we are all wearing masks, Metaphorically speaking...
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Flame on September 13, 2013, 03:12:26 AM
Quote from: KaZ on September 13, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
...You see we are all wearing masks, Metaphorically speaking...

Yes... It is time to end this charade, and remove our masks...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: LOS question
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 13, 2013, 10:11:30 AM
Quote from: KaZ on September 13, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
...You see we are all wearing masks, Metaphorically speaking...

Ha ha! :D
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tpriskblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FThe-Mask.jpg&hash=a351d9ab5814171ea35a3de9c8e76def76c062b5)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.tinypic.com%2Fvhfalv.jpg&hash=f98d3670ad6bb045407e9371ac2aa0ecd3878972)