Topic: Castlevania 64: The Beta, What We Got VS What There Was!!

[Dark Nemesis]

In Reply To #12

The same you can say about Sotn. The game was rushed. Also what Jorge said. They were able to captured the spirit at how a true 3D Castlevania game was supposed to be. Graphics are nothing if they don't have a part at the game from just being there. Example God of War!! Castlevania 64 was having that, but Iga's 3D games, they didn't have that element. I prefer to play older Castlevania games from any new one that it will come out, because it only has better graphics!!

[uzo]

In Reply To #12

The same you can say about Sotn.

And you might seem to forget, surprise, SotN is a GREAT game. Castlevania 64 was, well, not. So now you're comparing the worst game in the series, to the best game in the series.

I guess that really just proves my point further.

[thernz]

In Reply To #12

I respectfully disagree, if only because I think they captured the spirit of Castlevania with their enemies and platforming aspects.

The recent 3D Castlevanias fit the recent 2D games more by that reasoning with that super platforming. Ha. Ha. ...Ha. *cough*

[Dark Nemesis]

And you might seem to forget, surprise, SotN is a GREAT game. Castlevania 64 was, well, not. So now you're comparing the worst game in the series, to the best game in the series.

First, i'm not making a comparison between SotN and 64, but at the teams that they have work for each game respectively. The 64 team has rush the game, so the same has done the SotN team.

Second, the new 3D Castlevanias, they only have good graphics. So, if you remove graphics, 64 is far better than them! I'm not playing a game for it's graphics, but first for it's game play and second for the scenario. Also the platforming thing is almost not there at the new 3D Castlevania games. Also from the screenshots, even Resurrection was having more platforming.

To end this, i have a ps3 and many games, but i don't play any, because they might have great graphics or scenario, but their game play is flat.

[uzo]

So, if you remove graphics, 64 is far better than them!

Haha, no. You'd need to remove not only the graphics, but the combat engine, the music, the artwork, the character designs, and most notably, the CAMERA. If you remove ALL of those, then maybe, just maybe, CV64 could top them.

[Ralph]

The only thing I saw going for the CV64 games were the pseudo-interesting storylines and the atmosphere/music. The graphics towards the end of the game and the combat system were abominable and clunky. Sure, they weren't the worst games in the world (I'd play Legacy of Darkness over Curse of Darkness), but they could have been so much better.

[Long John Silver]

In Reply To #20

dunno, i found carrie's design to be superior to similar ones from igavanias. i mean, compare her to the travesties called dxc and judgement maria. one looks like a dude, another one like a cheap cosplayer from japan teleported to middle ages. enough said.

the combat engine wasn't that bad, i mean it was a classicvania in 3d. i don't see people hating on cv1 because it has clunky combat engine, no equippable weapons or combos, and lod's about as clunky in control as cv1.
the only thing wrong with it was the hit detection - it could be improved a lot (hitting stuff with reinhardt was annoying).

other than that it had everything a cv title should. a primary attack, subweapons, hearts (well jewels, but it's just a graphic thing), crouching/jumps that actually meant something (3digavanias have no crouching and jumping is there just to be there. you can beat most of the game without touching the button even once, all you need to do is mash attack buttons to fight through copypasta rooms filled with lots of repetitive copypasta enemies) etc.

i agree about the camera though. it was annoying, especially when it switched into the auto mode and usually positioned itself in an annoying way that obscured stuff and had to be reset manually.

[Dark Nemesis]

If the 64 team was having the same sources as Iga's team has now, i believe that they could beat Iga's 3D vanias blindfolded.

[RichterB]

If the 64 team was having the same sources as Iga's team has now, i believe that they could beat Iga's 3D vanias blindfolded.

Agreed. They had a handle on what makes Castlevania Castlevania, even if they didn't have the time and resources to implement it all. I mean when IGA got a second chance at 3D after LoI, he decided that what was missing was a Pokemon-like Familiar system in CoD. That was the "key" element missing in LoI that would make a better 3D Castlevania. : (Not more platforming or swinging over gaps  or interactive level design, etc etc). It was a level-based Familiar system and more hallways than ever before that was needed. And, if not that, then a 3D fighting game (Judgment).

I enjoyed CV64 and LoI when I first played them. Recently, I went back and played both.

I found myself refreshed by CV64 in that the level designs actually used 3D space dynamically. IE: The clock tower actually has 3D gears you can stand on and take multiple paths through!

Meanwhile, I was shocked at how simplistic LoI was. The graphics and music were cool, but everything was so flat and the combat was more boring than I remembered. (And then it hit me...why can Leon walk in the air as he jump-whips--it looks ridiculous. The Belmonts aren't super heroes, and therefore, any future 3D combat system should be based on more realistic mechanics. It creates a better balance for the use of things like sub-weapons).

I think the gritty art direction of the CV64 world was more compelling and immersive than the more fantasy-esque, cut-and-paste worlds of IGA. Whereas IGA's are eerie, CV64 was downright creepy.

Now, I like that a camera control system was added to CoD, and the general idea of more combat options is nice, but the makers of CV64/LoD just had a much better grasp of what Castlevania is in the classic sense. Castlevania does not = SotN. Symphony is a side-story, much in the same way that Megaman does not = Battle Network/EXE. Are both legitimate game formats? Yes. But the pedigree runs deeper than the latest trends, and that has to be observed. It'd be like someone deciding every new Mario game better follow Sunshine's example and have a water cannon, because that was an "evolution" of the series. I think Castlevania's been hamstrung in recent years by trying to repeat Symphony of the Night, when it was kind of a one time affair.

Regardless, the real test is coming. Castlevania for PS3 better not simply be 'God of War' or 'Devil May Cry' with a Castlevania skin. And it better not be a fanboy's tribute send-off to Alucard and SotN. It has to define itself, and feel like the soul of Castlevania in 3D, just as the N64 titles did.

[uzo]

If the 64 team was having the same sources as Iga's team has now, i believe that they could beat Iga's 3D vanias blindfolded.

Oh yes. Lets just balance this by giving the CV64 team a DECADE OF TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES. Brilliant. Man I bet if HITLER had technologies from a decade in the future, he'd have won the war. So that means Hitler was better than the allies. You sir are incredibly brilliant.

Despite your complete lapse of any logic there the point is still moot, because good gameplay has nothing to do with technological advances a decade ahead. Mario 64 did a good job, CV64 should have too. Bad gameplay transcends technological advances, even a decade ahead.

The development time for CV64 and Legacy of Darkness combined is quite large. They were not pressed for time or rushed. This is for what essentially should have been ONE game as well. In that entire time they failed to fix any issues the game had. That is true evidence of a failure in project management and ability.

And Serio, you just like loli's Though yes, I admit her design was pretty well done.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

In Reply To #25

lol Hitler StrawMan argument.  For shame, Uzo.  XD

Konami did not have much to go on when they came out with their game back in that time.  And to further get sucker-punched, Ocarina of Time came out while they were developing.  That must've hurt.

Still, for a novice team I think they captured the spirit of Castlevania well given the tools, the time, and the 3D technology of that time period.

The N64 (and the PSX actually) all suffered from camera-angle issue games at that time.  I think we're looking at stuff with today's standards and it's not fair to games of the time anymore than it is to look at CV1 and complaining about the play control (as someone mentioned previously).

It was a good game for the time at which game out.  I can probably only count a fistful or two of games which had better camera angles and play control and told a decent story (Zelda's one... maybe I'd count Mario but its story is, well... Mario, haha... what else was there?).

[uzo]

Come to think of the camera thing, I guess that is why FPS were very popular to develop. There wasn't any camera issues.

But still, I disagree that CV64's camera issues was due to its time period, the camera should have been MUCH MUCH better. Goemon 64 (first one) had a great camera for its time. (Goemon2 for N64 doesn't count, wasn't 3D movement.) Also done by Konami. Leagues above CV64 in just about every aspect. That team certainly didn't have major issues with making a good platforming 3D game with good controls, good graphics, and interesting levels.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

In Reply To #27

Yeah but wasn't that a different team?  It's not like an entire branch of Konami works on one game.  Yeah it could've been better (the camera)... but it's not nearly as bad a problem as people make it out to be.

I beat the entire game, and only found it to be a minor inconvenience at the time.

That particular team was a novice team, just like the LoI team was a Ps2 novice team when it came to programming in 3D (or so I've heard).

[A n t r a x x]

The camera can be awful in parts...

But it could be pretty bad in LoI too.

[uzo]

In Reply To #28

I know its a different team. That's the main point. The team apparently wasn't any good in comparison to many others. However that doesn't mean developers in the same house don't share ideas and techniques.