Topic: Us Wacky Castlevania Fans

[DingusBelmondo]

Uh OH! Our argument is a bit of a paradox it seems. Castlevania Harmony of Dispair is TOO Castlevania for some of us, because it doesn't have anything new, yet Lords of Shadow is NOT Castlevania enough because it's too different and doesn't have enough series staples.
Should we be critical of gameplay, design, and innovation? Yes. Should we be condemning these games to be "BLARHGH THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO TEH CASTLEVANIAS" nope. Some people would only be happy with remakes of Castlevania IV and III for the rest of eternity. Some only with Symphony of the Night 2,3,4,5,6,7. What we have before us are two games that will clearly not be the last in our long line of games, a series that has had MANY good and BAD games in it's history. Many of which we will live to see. These changes are an inevitability in the game world as our minds and expectations progress. HOWEVER, if Order of Ecclesia (metroidvania), Adventure Rebirth (classicvania), Harmony of Despair (multiplayer), and Lords of Shadow (3D action adventure) will not be enough to satisfy your nostalgia, you are better off sitting home rehashing the past, and not on a internet board.

[crisis]

you forgot Encore of the Night 

[DingusBelmondo]

you forgot Encore of the Night 

hahahah. "Do you love castlevania, but wish it was a puzzle game!? Well, you are in luck!" Honestly though, it looks fun, and in no way jeopardizes the series' image. I doubt anyone had a fit when dr. mario came out.

[Abnormal Freak]

Eh. Lords of Shadow just doesn't look like a Castlevania game to me, and Harmony of Despair recycles sprites and seems to have no creative stage design. Neither is what I'd like to see.

The thing about the old games is many of them introduced new ideas from previous games, they had their own unique level layouts and sprites, and even though a game like Bloodlines or, for a more extreme example, Symphony of the Night do a lot of things different from previous titles, you can still look at them and see Castlevania.

Rehashing sprites and making half-assed efforts toward level design is not what older Castlevania games did. But they didn't do things so different that it's no longer recognizably Castlevania.

Harmony of Despair seems lazy, and Lords of Shadow should have remained the title of the game, rather than slapping "Castlevania" in front of it.

[Ahasverus]

I disagree with you abnormal, however, you l.o.s told al the thruth, we are very, very very wacky

[Abnormal Freak]

Well, and I play video games solo. :p Harmony of Despair almost seems to be what Four Sword Adventures was for the Zelda series, which is a helluvalotta fun with friends, but nowhere near as fun on its own.

[DingusBelmondo]

The thing about the old games is many of them introduced new ideas from previous games, they had their own unique level layouts and sprites, and even though a game like Bloodlines or, for a more extreme example, Symphony of the Night do a lot of things different from previous titles, you can still look at them and see Castlevania.

I agree with this, I really wish more classicvanias could be made. However, I think after a while, the format really would get old. Eventually it would get to where Zelda is now where the fans are actually upset that the series is repeating itself. If we could have classicvanias made on the side, like adventure, that would be great. But sooner or later we HAVE to move on.

[darkwzrd4]

What I like are the metroidvanias.  What I like about them are the RPG elements and the fact that each one has a different combat system.  Plus, I loved the map design in OoE.  It saved a lot of time that would have been used backtracking.  I also like games like LoI and CoD, except I would like the level design to be more varied instead of the repeating rooms.

[Wallachia]

Yep, these people are whacky.. and I believe this LoS guy is Mr Cox

[jimmay17]

We are a damn fastidious lot. I almost feel sorry for Konami sometimes.

. . .Then I remember they have jobs any one of us would sacrifice lesser parts of our anatomy for, and I don't feel so bad.

[Reinhart77]

ha, and all I care about is that it has "Castlevania" in the title and that it appears like a little love was put into the game.  i want a little of everything, some new stuff and some that pay serious homage to past greats.  as long as there's variety, i'm happy.  i want it to be made by someone new, and i want it to be made by the guys who have made it for a long time.  so i'm pretty happy with the way things are progressing.  i miss the days with Iga at the helm who helped create a unified storyline one tiny piece at a time, but i won't argue with the need to start fresh with LoS. 

[Abnormal Freak]

I agree with this, I really wish more classicvanias could be made. However, I think after a while, the format really would get old. Eventually it would get to where Zelda is now where the fans are actually upset that the series is repeating itself. If we could have classicvanias made on the side, like adventure, that would be great. But sooner or later we HAVE to move on.

I'm not even opposed to more Metroidvanias if they were done with the same caliber greatness as Symphony of the Night. But none of the GBA or DS games have, for me, captured the fun and style of that game. Part of it has to do with them being on handhelds, but a more crucial part is that the level designs are more often than not very lazy, and so much is just same-old: no new sprites, the character designs and art were for the most part done by Ayami Kojima, the music was too similar, and so on. Castlevania made its biggest step forward with SOTN, and then it came to a standstill—actually, the quality regressed, and quite a bit. The closest we probably got to a really good post-SOTN Metroidvania is Aria of Sorrow. That's the only one that really sticks out in my mind. The rest have their good aspects, but are on the whole kind of forgettable.

I just want more teams to create Castlevania games. It was so varied in the past, with completely different people making each new installment. Different designers, artists, composers, programmers, everything. That form of intense variation died off long ago. But then, maybe nobody else but IGA and co. are even interested in making Castlevania games, and perhaps if it weren't for IGA we wouldn't really have Castlevania anymore, or at least not as many games as we've gotten over the past decade.

[Thunderbrand]

I'm not even opposed to more Metroidvanias if they were done with the same caliber greatness as Symphony of the Night.

Good luck with that. Aint gonna happen. SOTN was lightning in a bottle. Countless attempts have been made to copy it, and although some efforts have been valiant, the magic that SOTN had has never, nor will ever be re-created IMHO. That game was a "reboot" of sorts at the time, and it skyrocketed. Hopefully LoS has a big impact on the series too...

That said, I agree people need to quit their pissing & moaning. All the comparisons to other games and the gripes about the gameplay, load times, combat, etc etc...WE'VE ONLY SEEN A F'ING DEMO SO FAR, and the intro at that!!! They still have a couple months to get things straightened out before release. Plus, the final product will have 50+ stages, recurring characters, an orchestrated score with re-worked classic CV tunes, and many nods to past games. I'm sure there will be PLENTY to satisfy the diehard, lifelong CV fan, plus attract many new fans. People need to RELAX a bit...

[crisis]

I believe that one day we'll see a title that will make us say "..this is arguably better than Symphony." And by us I mean we, the hardcore fans. You see, casual players think every installment that's been released has already surpassed Symphony (from what I've observed over the years), but we've been playing CV since day 1 (most of us, anyway), & despite a vast catalogue, only a few titles stand out in everybody's minds that are the absolute best of CV. Does anybody here hate SotN? Almost impossible to, despite it's lack of difficulty it still shines. Maybe it'll be IGA's long-anticipated 1999 game, his "trump card" of sorts, that blows us away, or maybe it'll be a different team altogether, but I still have faith that in the coming years we'll see a truly phenomenal 2D game that not only trumps Symphony but all the other metroidvania's.

So, a true hybrid of classic/"metroid" would be incredible if done properly, using elements of CV2's mystery, CV3's presentation, SCIV's gameplay, SotN's beauty, etc. Make it happen, Konami!!!

[RichterB]

I agree with a lot of what Abnormal Freak is saying...Though, one key addition for me:

Because it was released before Castlevania's portable boon, and newer fans generally aren't familiar with it in context, I think we forget the Castlevania evolution that was dropped mid-evolution: CV64 and Legacy of Darkness. First off, these were supposed to be ONE game, but development time and hardware difficulties got in the way. Moreover, they were supposed to include more features that appeared in beta videos that never made it into either retail version, such as whip-swinging over gaps ala Castlevania IV.

The short-lived, misunderstood 3D N64 era was just as ambitious, if not more ambitious, than SotN or anything since. KCEK took Castlevania kicking and screaming into 3D, and made many innovations along the way. We had cinematic elements such as the trees getting hit by lightning, falling, and burning up on the ground in the intro of stage one. There were lesser vampires for the first time in eerie survival horror moments married alongside action & cliff-grabbing platforming with a mostly 3D camera. There were item- and time-sensitive events and puzzles, status ailments, night and day mechanics, a shop with consequences to greed, stage-based levels with exploration, and classic Castlevania memes alongside a fresh gothic/Industrial Revolution-inspired art design and a main hero with both a whip and a [strategic] sword. Furthermore, there were multiple characters and routes through the game with their own stories, a mixture of ambient and heroic tunes (new and old), and, well, the list goes on...And again, all of it was in 3D!

There were no hack-n-slash combos or box-based design–-it utilized all the dimensions of the 3D space. Was it rough around the edges and a bit eccentric (everyone talks about the motorcycles)? Sure, sure. But there was no doubt in my mind that it was "CASTLEVANIA." That all that ambitiousness and headway on such limited hardware was dropped is something that 3D Castlevania has never recovered from to date. Things should have been cleaned up/expounded on that template, I think.

Now, from all the trailers thus far, Lords of Shadow is so much so a reimagining, that it could have been the start of its own franchise, suitably called Lords of Shadow. It's nice to grace it with the name of Castlevania due to its high production values that the Castlevania series has never gotten before, but IMO most similarities feel like tokens to me compared to what was brewing on the N64. No disrespect to LoS, which will be a fine game in its own right. (I personally haven't felt much of the Castlevania vibe yet, which is based in classic horror and adventure more than dark high-fantasy). And yes, CV fans are indeed a wacky brood.