Topic: Lords of Shadow Opinions (has Spoilers)

[RegalX7]

Again it's a clear-cut case of people bitching about nothing. Seriously, all the complaints are over little shit. RELAX! This is NOT a Metroidvania, was never intended to be and thankfully is NOT. This is the 21st centruy and time to make a real new-gen game. End of story & bottom line.

I don't think I'm nitpicking... I couldn't care less about it not being like a Metroidvania - in fact, I prefer the Classicvanias, and hearing that LoS was supposed to be more like like them had me hyped. Most of the problems I have with it don't even concern the "Castlevania" in the title.

[whitedragon_nall]

Again it's a clear-cut case of people bitching about nothing. Seriously, all the complaints are over little shit. RELAX! This is NOT a Metroidvania, was never intended to be and thankfully is NOT. This is the 21st centruy and time to make a real new-gen game. End of story & bottom line.

I didn't see anybody even mention the game not being "Metroidvania". You seem to be making an assumption based on absolutely nothing. Not everyone has the same opinion as you in regards to this game.

[Valtiel]

I think Castlevania: Lords of Shadow may in many ways mark the defeat of quality gaming.

The sale numbers for Europe are just in; it would appear that for now LoS managed to sell around 20k units in Europe. It's the first week, there's still the US, and Japan; there's word of mouth and there's bargain bin deals, but still I guess odds of C:LoS of achieving "blockbuster" status are next to none. Something went definitely wrong in the marketing phase, I guess - when I have to explain to a GameStop clerk what game I'm talking about on release day there's something possibly very, very wrong. As of today, there's no Castlevania: LoS exposed on my local GameStop shelves. Either you know the game exist, or you never will apparently.

My first concern is that Konami and Mercury Steam in particular manage to make a profit out of it, because no matter what you may think about the final outcome, this is a game that has heart. At every single step you take in C:LoS' grim, gothic world you can feel the love that went into making every shot, every area something special.
This is a very, very special game; to me, it's definitely a contender for "Game of the Generation" and I said that fully understanding the implications of such judgement. I say that being a multisystem owner that played more or less anything worth playing in the last 25 years. C:LoS is in no way a perfect game; its flaws are both subjective and objective, and I won't waste time digressing on them.

What sets C:LoS apart, and makes it something unique, is how generous it is. This generation of gaming tried to teach us that we can't want too much from HD gaming. That "HD towns" are too long to develop, that reskinning a model should cost 5€ for each customer, that a gorgeous looking adventure game is meant to last 6 hours because games cost millions to make. Then comes this game made by an obscure european developer and you get a 20 hours adventure with graphics that would make God of War stare and an amount of attention to details that puts most current-gen RPGs to shame.

I understand at this point I may sound like payed advertisement for Konami, but I honestly think that despite the enjoyement you can get from it, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow is a very relevant game for this generation. Aside from the quantity of what it offers, the game does much I would want to see expanded on in terms of quality. Many observers commented on the elements C:LoS "borrows" from other games; if I can, I'd point out that while that may be true, when you do God of War better than God of War does, you can pat yourself on the back. But that aside, few people focused on the areas where C:LoS is different from games we're used to and the places where it innovates.

For example, the level structure is absolutely amazing. We live in an age where every developer strives to either create the most seamless gaming experience (aside from being literally drowned in sandbox games, the alternative is absolutely linear - albeit gorgeous - games like Uncharted). C:LoS introduces a system that has its roots deep into the conventions of 16 bit gaming, and that to most "modern" gamers will be an absolute discovery. Breaking up the game into thematically defined Chapters and then splitting Chapters in (often extremely short) levels is brilliant. Not only it helped diversity - I can't know what went on in the design phase of the game, but fracturing the game into so many sub-levels certainly pushes towards differentiating each segment from the others, while "seamless" designs often lead to uniform design. Each level of C:LoS has an identity, and this is one of the reasons the game feels so big. There's an amazing amount of different scenarios and different looking areas, and nothing drags on for too long. In an age where games strive to create massive permanent worlds that tend to flatness, the granularity of C:LoS design allows the developers to focus on a small or big idea, on a concept or a theme, or even just one enemy and build half an hour of fun around that without having to make that part of the game exceedingly consistent with the rest. An example of how bigger isn't always better.
Another consequence of the brilliant game design is that replayability and hunting for collectibles become a rare pleasure. I want to see more games borrowing this kind of design; navigating through C:LoS levels to get that one upgrade or see that one cutscene again or doing trials or simply exploring a level you just rushed through again is incredibly user-friendly. I love how this design completely removes the need for a New Game Plus mode: your entire experience with the game will consist of the same playthrough from beginning to end. Some of the best elements of online gaming applied to a single player experience.

I will spend few words on the art style, because the quality is so obvious that everyone, even the stronger detractors, mention it. Once again, when you have epic set pieces that put multimillion productions to shame you can be proud of yourself. This is an aspect where I honestly felt that it wasn't simply a matter of appreciating a small team putting all their passion in a product that could stand head to head with the competition; Mercury Steam's art department is top notch and I dare say they got no competitors at this point. Just get to the shot where you approach the sewers entrance and you can see the castle on the horizon. This is one incredibly beautiful game, and not because of its sheer graphical prowess.

I could go on to the combat system - once again, you can feel MS trying to make the best game they can in this department too, trying new things and creating something that will legitimately challenge players. I could discuss the approach C:LoS has to boss design and how HD gaming made me desperate for seeing something like this. Once again, I may sound like payed advertisement at this point; I think the reason is that I feel that LoS is a love letter to 16 bit gaming, and I bloody love 16 bit gaming. I'm also a PnP RPG player, and a fantasy fan, and a game with fantasy art and scenarios this good is basically porn for a guy like me. I love this game, and you always sound like a fanboy when you talk about things you love. Last week I picked up Lords of Shadow and suddenly I had a surge of hope for this and the next gen of gaming.

However, this morning I went to read the European sales charts, and I woke up from my dream. Once again, almost 3 million people rushed to buy the umpteen, identical football simulator that still plays exactly like it did 1 or 10 years ago, while a genuine masterpiece like LoS was apparently ignored. I guess that's how things should be; we (the customers) will eventually kill quality gaming. It's apparently very important for us to make sure that our last football game has Cristiano Ronaldo wearing the correct shirt or that we do get the last reskin of the exact same military FPS set in Afghanistan so that we can snipe terrorists for 3 hours or frag other players for 300 this year too; we should not complain if one day all we have is sport games or FPSs. It's a reductive analysis, but sometimes it feels like all gamers want is that.

My plea to David Cox and Mercury Steam is that, if you do get a second go at Castlevania and I really, really hope you do, don't change what you did here. You got it right the first time. There's nothing wrong in C:LoS. You can improve, expecially technically, and you can expand; it can be better (even if at times I wonder how - I mean, it feels like Gabriel has already been everywhere) but it shouldn't be different.

Thanks for the amazing gaming experience. I never wrote something like that before, I'll admit, but you made my inner kid happy.

[Ahasverus]

Your post was the most feeling-silled thing I've ever read in this forums
...
Abd fear not! LoS history It's not over, remember that LoS was released in Europe at Thursday!   it's a very impressive number for 2 day-sales don't you think?

[Heuss]

Latest UK Software Charts

TOP 40 ENTERTAINMENT SOFTWARE - INDIVIDUAL FORMATS (UNITS), WEEK ENDING 9 October 2010

1 1 FIFA 11 XB360
2 2 FIFA 11 PS3
- 3 PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER 2011 PS3
5 4 HALO: REACH XB360
6 5 DEAD RISING 2 XB360
- 6 PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER 2011 XB360
4 7 F1 2010 PS3
3 8 F1 2010 XB360
7 9 DEAD RISING 2 PS3
13 10 JUST DANCE WII
- 11 CASTLEVANIA: LORDS OF SHADOW PS3
- 12 WII PARTY WII
- 13 ENSLAVED: ODYSSEY TO THE WEST XB360
8 14 FIFA 11 WII
- 15 CASTLEVANIA: LORDS OF SHADOW XB360
- 16 ENSLAVED: ODYSSEY TO THE WEST PS3
10 17 FIFA 11 PSP
9 18 SPORTS CHAMPIONS PS3
15 19 WII SPORTS RESORT WII
40 20 DANCE ON BROADWAY WII
18 21 NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. WII WII
19 22 NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. DS
20 23 TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 11 PS3
16 24 SUPER MARIO GALAXY 2 WII
12 25 FIFA 11 PS2
- 26 FIFA 11 DS
- 27 WRC: FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP PS3
- 28 CALL OF DUTY: MODERN WARFARE 2 XB360
26 29 FORZA MOTORSPORT 3 XB360
22 30 WII FIT PLUS WII
17 31 ART ACADEMY DS
27 32 TOY STORY 3 DS
11 33 CIVILIZATION V PC
- 34 WRC: FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP XB360
- 35 CALL OF DUTY: MODERN WARFARE 2 PS3
14 36 GUITAR HERO: WARRIORS OF ROCK XB360
35 37 MARIO KART WII WII
23 38 SNIPER: GHOST WARRIOR XB360
- 39 TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 11 XB360
29 40 GREASE: THE OFFICIAL VIDEO GAME WII


http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=110032

Only UK

Castlevania (PS3) + Castlevania (X360) = 20.000 in EU?      200.000 only UK
    

[bobby digital]

It doesn't really help that people who wanted the special editions didn't get to purchase them thanks to konami of europe not even releasing it until later.  I'm pretty sure there are people that wanted the game who are waiting for those.

Overall I can't begin to understand why Konami didn't spend more marketing this game.  Did they really think it would sell simply through word of mouth and good reviews?  Chances are they will see the mediocre sales and assume that they didn't do a good job with the game.

[Ahasverus]

I don't think so. Also, keep in mind.

Castlevania LoS Release date EU: October 7.

But yeah, markething sucked. Hard.

[Heuss]

Castlevania overcomes Eslaved in UK. The soccer games and Wii minigames it's much sales in UK. I think he can get 250,000 sales or more in Europe... million seller in the world.

Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (DS): 259,808
Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (DS): 209,298
Castlevania Judgment (Wii): 73,384

[ShinAkumaXX]

I just got to Chapter 8. I can say now I love the game! I was a bit frustrated early on... cause I sucked. It however seems to keep getting better and better. Sad to hear that a lot of you aren't really into it, or think it's kind of weak. I agree with Valtiel on a lot of stuff. I'm okay with medusa heads being absent by the way. I think the marketing should of been better as well. I am actually seeing a bit of advertising on gamespot.com or ign. Halo has tons of commercials and everyone seems to buy those games, I was at wal-mart earlier and there was a 20 ft wide Halo Reach banner hanging from the ceiling. But then again that's the 360 flagship series I suppose. And I suppose Konami might not have the cash to advertise like that? Or do they? It is sad, nobody I know has any clue about this game. They are missing out!

[Heuss]

Mmmmmm... A Halloween castlevania poster in Wallmart? 

[Death]

Valtiel, well said man. I completely agree with you.

I'm absolutely LOVING LoS! I know most die hard Castlevania fans are against a reboot, but I think this is exactly what the series needed. The timeline was getting way too ridiculous and the story was getting repetitive. LoS has BY FAR the most AMAZING art style i've ever seen in any videogame. MercurySteam really put their hearts into this game and it shows. The combat is great and i'm loving the story so far.

The thing that really depresses me and pisses me off though is that this game will have poor sales. I REALLY, REALLY hope this doesn't stop MercurySteam from making more sequels because I love the new direction they have taken the series. Konami should've marketed the hell out of this game damnit, because these days marketing is everything. That new Medal of Honor game is total garbage, but it will sell 5x more copies than LoS just because of marketing. It's a shame because LoS is a real gem and it deserves great sales.

[crisis]

The timeline was getting way too ridiculous and the story was getting repetitive.

I'm curious, what was so ridiculous about the timeline?

[thernz]

the story was kinda repetitive from the start. its kinda the point.
los's own story shares a lot of tropes with the other more recent castlevanias too.

[e105beta]

the story was kinda repetitive from the start. its kinda the point.
los's own story shares a lot of tropes with the other more recent castlevanias too.

Particularly the Zobek twist. Graham, Mathias, Barlowe, etc.

Then there was the final boss twist. Just replace Satan with Dracula and you have PoR. We think we're fighting the Lords, but wait! ULTIMATE EVIL! Not that I didn't like it, but it was there.

[Thomas Belmont]

I stayed away from these forums for a while to avoid any spoilers. However, I just beat the game tonight and I'm proud to say that I feel the game is awesome! I can understand some people being upset about it not feeling like a traditional Castlevania but there's no denying that it's a great game. And now reading today that a sequel is in the works has me really excited.