Topic: Which Dracula's origins do you prefer? SPOILER ALERT!!!

[Renonsgoods]

But Dracula shows up the last few minutes in EVERY Castlevania game

Hey, I'm just putting that out there for all the Mathias lovers out there that like to harp on how lame Satan's appearance at the end of LoS was.  Point is...Mathias' entry onto the stage in LoI was no different.

If we fought him at the end of LoI then people would say it contradicts CVIII since Trevor was the first to battle him.

Umm, what the hell does that have anything to do with it?  Are you really trying to argue that legions of CV fans would have had a fit if we'd actually gotten a chance to see Leon and Mathias lock swords???  Besides which, he wasn't Dracula yet at that time...so that argument still doesn't hold water.

The only reason Gabriel chose to become Dracula was because his enemies told him he would. Even after he clearly repents his sins & BEGS God to forgive him, probably a mere hours later he forgets all that & becomes a vampire anyway. That's pretty much it.

Gabe became what he became because of the steps he took leading up to that point.  I don't think he decided to become a dark lord because someone told him that it would be a good idea.  And yea, he tried ONE LAST TIME to be God's good little foot soldier...and repent....but his reward ended up being "Hey, thanks for smiting the Devil for me.......your wife is staying dead though".  Really, is it THAT hard to believe he'd get pissed after that?  Remember, Mathias didn't go on some big trek to somehow bring his wife back from the dead...only to have the whole thing end up being a big FU at the conclusion.  His wife just died, and he goes on some kind of rampage against God for it.  IMO his motivations for being pissed at God and/or the world just weren't as strong as Gabe's precisely because Gabe had the rug yanked out from under him despite all his good work and intentions.

At the end of the day, we're all just arguing a personal preference.  And in reality, all this "Gabe vs Mathias" stuff is really just a "Lament vs Lords" debate.  People who preferred LoI are going to support the Mathias Drac.....people who preferred LoS are going to support Gabriel Drac.  Simple as that...no matter how we dress up the poll questions


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[Flame]

At the end of the day, we're all just arguing a personal preference.  And in reality, all this "Gabe vs Mathias" stuff is really just a "Lament vs Lords" debate.  People who preferred LoI are going to support the Mathias Drac.....people who preferred LoS are going to support Gabriel Drac.  Simple as that...no matter how we dress up the poll questions

/thread

[Puwexil]

People's opinions about video games aligning with their opinions about major characters in said story-intensive video games? Why, I never.

[crisis]

Are you really trying to argue that legions of CV fans would have had a fit if we'd actually gotten a chance to see Leon and Mathias lock swords???

Sure, because the canon dictates that Trevor was and will always be the first Belmont to battle him. If IGA changed that by making "pretty-boy Leon" the first, there'd be even more of a fracture with how the fans feel about his decisions.

Or do you mean like a friendly spar or something??
 

Gabe became what he became because of the steps he took leading up to that point.

Same thing can be said for Matthias. He went on a big trek during his fighting in the Crusades in God's favor. When he returned to a dead wife, he took it as a big FU, too. Only difference between the two is we don't get to play this part of his life. So he DID get his rug yanked from underneath him, just in a different fashion.

At the end of the day, we're all just arguing a personal preference.

omg no shit. that's what forum debating is for!

[whitedragon_nall]

Hey, I'm just putting that out there for all the Mathias lovers out there that like to harp on how lame Satan's appearance at the end of LoS was.  Point is...Mathias' entry onto the stage in LoI was no different.

While what you say is true, we at least knew of Mathias beforehand. He didn't just come out of no where like Satan, unless I missed something mentioning him. I always expected Mathias to show up, but that's because I knew of all the Elisabetha stuff before I played the game. Both Dracula reveals were very predictable to me.

My reasons for liking Mathias over Gabe are, admittedly, a bit shallow. When it comes to villains, I prefer smarter, calculating enemies over enemies that are simply all power.....and Gabe just came off as the "power" type.

[Renonsgoods]

. Both Dracula reveals were very predictable to me.

Same for me.  As I said, picking Gabe over Mathias is mostly a "lesser of two evils" type of thing.  I really didn't care for either as an origin for the king of vampires.  Bram Stoker's version trumps both IMO. I liked Drac alot more when he didn't have an origin in the CV continuity.

My reasons for liking Mathias over Gabe are, admittedly, a bit shallow. When it comes to villains, I prefer smarter, calculating enemies over enemies that are simply all power.....and Gabe just came off as the "power" type.

I can respect that.

[Renonsgoods]

People's opinions about video games aligning with their opinions about major characters in said story-intensive video games? Why, I never.

Actually, it being the other way around was my point, but I'm glad you got the gist of it.

[whitedragon_nall]

Bram Stoker's version trumps both IMO.

Yes. He kinda creeped me out in the novel...in a VERY good way. He seemed like such a nice guy when Jonathan first moved in, then....well, you know what happens.

[Renonsgoods]

Sure, because the canon dictates that Trevor was and will always be the first Belmont to battle him. If IGA changed that by making "pretty-boy Leon" the first, there'd be even more of a fracture with how the fans feel about his decisions.

Why would having a fight between Leon and Mathias cause a riot amongst CV fans???  Like I said......Mathias was NOT Dracula at that point.  Having him show up, spew his diabolical plot Scooby Doo style, and then run out before Leon could get some satisfaction from him just doesn't lend him any badass credibility IMO.  But as I said, it does stay in holding with the kind of Dracula he eventually turned into...so I guess I can't knock Iga for keeping him in character.

Or do you mean like a friendly spar or something??

I mean a physical conflict between two former friends turned enemies.  Obviously it wouldn't have been a fight to the death, but having some sort of battle (no matter how short) would have gone a long way towards showing how committed to his plans and beliefs he really was.
 

Same thing can be said for Matthias. He went on a big trek during his fighting in the Crusades in God's favor. When he returned to a dead wife, he took it as a big FU, too. Only difference between the two is we don't get to play this part of his life. So he DID get his rug yanked from underneath him, just in a different fashion.

That's stretching it a bit I think.  His wife died while he was on duty.  Not quite the same as having someone make you kill your wife without your knowledge, tell you you can bring her back if you retrieve a certain mask, and then have it all be for naught after you've completed your task, piled up a mountain of dead foes, and defeated the Devil.  You can make an argument that Mathias took it just as hard as Gabe after all that, but I'd say that just furthers the point that he was more "emo" than Gabe ever had been.

omg no shit. that's what forum debating is for!

/smartass retort

[Tanatra]

At the end of the day, we're all just arguing a personal preference.  And in reality, all this "Gabe vs Mathias" stuff is really just a "Lament vs Lords" debate.  People who preferred LoI are going to support the Mathias Drac.....people who preferred LoS are going to support Gabriel Drac.  Simple as that...no matter how we dress up the poll questions

True, which is why debating such things is a huge waste of time. Seriously you guys, go outside and talk to girls or something.

[whitedragon_nall]

I think the only way we'll solve this is with Castlevania Judgment 2. Only playable characters will be Mathias and Gabe and it'll include an online mode that keeps track of the win/loss ratio between the 2 characters. What do ya say? I think I'm onto something here.

[Renonsgoods]

I think the only way we'll solve this is with Castlevania Judgment 2. Only playable characters will be Mathias and Gabe and it'll include an online mode that keeps track of the win/loss ratio between the 2 characters. What do ya say? I think I'm onto something here.

Pure.....WIN.

[crisis]

Why would having a fight between Leon and Mathias cause a riot amongst CV fans???

Because we riot about every little thing as it is, from hairstyles to the way a character walks. I'm not necessarily objecting to the idea, it woulda been pretty neat be it gameplay-wise or a cutscene. It's just the fact that IGA wanted to keep Trevor the first to fight him, and I guess I agree with him, which is another reason why Legends was disregarded.

Not quite the same as having someone make you kill your wife without your knowledge,

Just thought of something, how the hell did Zobek get him to put on the mask in the first place?? I don't think that was ever shown/explained. Just does more to prove the whole "you're just a puppet" thing Gabriel has going on.

/smartass retort

Oh come on, do you not see the TROLLMEISTER award??  

True, which is why debating such things is a huge waste of time. Seriously you guys, go outside and talk to girls or something.

Nobody's forcing you to sit down and read through our posts.
..or maybe somebody is? Wanna talk about it?

[Flame]

..or maybe somebody is? Wanna talk about it?

I-It's Shaft... He... violated my mind and forced me to sit here and read posts.

[Renonsgoods]

Just thought of something, how the hell did Zobek get him to put on the mask in the first place?? I don't think that was ever shown/explained. Just does more to prove the whole "you're just a puppet" thing Gabriel has going on.

I don't know either.  It was a horrible and unnecessary plot element IMO.  MS could have done so much better with the plot if they had followed the KISS protocol.  Lots of little things that, if had been done a bit different, could have made the whole story so much better.  After playing Reverie and Resurrection, I'm now in firm belief that ALL the narration should have been done by Gabriel as an internal monologue...rather than by Zobek (which just came off as...wierd...after a while).  It could have given more insight into Gabriel's mental/emotional state throughout the game, instead of us having to extrapolate how all those events were effecting him.  If you're going to have the first Belmont make a descent that leads him to become Dracula....you WANT to make that transformation as transparent to the player as humanly possible.