Topic: General Mega Man Discussion Thread

[Flame]

The laws of robotics don't apply to any of the franchise robots that we know of. Theres nothing to suggest they do. They EXIST, but that doesnt mean robots were ever forced to follow them.

Also, the "original" Zero series concept was inti's mainly. Inafune, when they asked him about doing a megaman game, asked them to put Zero in it. The tyrant X was inti Creates Idea. they joked about what if X was the final boss, and Inafune said "sure go for it!"

the change to Copy X was also inti creates idea. they didnt feel comfortable with turning kids hero into a villain.

"terminate that copy of [his] with extreme prejudice"

X refused to come back to life, deciding to rest, and a copy of him, whom everyone thinks is him, does all these atrocities. X was understandably upset.

also it's not so much that he broke down about his enemies more than he just became "battle hardened". he stopped caring. he became kind of like Zero essentially.

[VladCT]

Since you've disappeared I've been fighting this war alone against an uncountable number of Mavericks for nearly a hundred years... Battle after battle...so painful and so sad...but the hardest part was when I discovered that I no longer cared about the enemies I fought...

Still, for him to feel hurt by it, I suppose it was somewhat of a breakdown to him. And I kinda feel that Zero's personality rubbing off on him was more of a coping mechanism.

Then again, going by what you said, I suppose TVTropes exaggerated things a bit.

Despair Event Horizon: It's implied that he got hit with this between his series and this series, specifically in the Elf Wars in which he fought most of it alone. The original concept was that he would lose all hope for human and reploid coexistence and begin the oppression and genocide of his descendant species, since they were incapable of living peacefully with humanity (this concept became Copy-X later). Fortunately he's still Genre Savvy enough to Take a Third Option and he chose to seal what caused the war, the Dark Elf. While most of his dialogue as a Cyber-Elf is fairly normal, there are a couple times when he implies his Ax Crazy/Blood Knight tendencies he's holding back, which is extremely jarring coming from a former Reluctant Warrior and poster android for Incorruptible Pure Pureness. The fact it could break The Messiah (a trope he fits, only without the Marty Stu aspects) shows how bad things really are.

[Flame]

That is exageration to the extreme. their supposed "original idea" has never been explained by inti enough to make that assumption that not caring caused him to become a tyrant. Given that Cyber X was inserted into the story and given his own lines, I doubt that would have been how it went. Im guessing that besides not wanting to make children's hero a villain they also figured there was nothing to make it work without a convoluted solution. Given that X worrying means he constantly weighs the value of Reploids and Humans, an impossible task which makes him care so much about both sides and dream of perfect coexistence. The most you can do to the character is make him battle hardened where he just is not emotionally affected by killing reploids anymore. But for that to go to the extreme of mass genocide for the humans sake? nah.

[X]

Laws of robotics doesnt apply to Reploids since they are free to follow or ignore them. Thats why Dr. Light sealed X in a capsule to test him. Only because he is a good person at the time, it doesnt mean that he cant change his behaviour after.

I have to disagree respectfully. A reploid is like a robot in that they are both machines. The rules of robotics apply just as much to a reploid as it would to a robot. A robot must not harm a human being. 1st rule. If a robot or reploid under any circumstance wilfully harms a human (not due to a malfunction) then they must be destroyed. Which is the case for the Mavericks and which is why maverick hunters exist. Issac Asimov was the one to write up the rules of robotics. But even then you can't ignore the possibility that these rules will come to pass when we actually create sentient robots. Like rules that we write for ourselves to help govern ourselves, so do we the same for robots, or in this case reploids.

[Lelygax]

The laws of robotics don't apply to any of the franchise robots that we know of. Theres nothing to suggest they do. They EXIST, but that doesnt mean robots were ever forced to follow them.

Megaman 7. That "Wily, Im most than a robot" phrase is bullshit from the US.

I have to disagree respectfully. A reploid is like a robot in that they are both machines. The rules of robotics apply just as much to a reploid as it would to a robot. A robot must not harm a human being. 1st rule. If a robot or reploid under any circumstance wilfully harms a human (not due to a malfunction) then they must be destroyed.

Its not a rule that a robot decide to follow or not when they apply. A robot simple cant oppose this rule, thats why a reploid doesnt apply in this case, because they can break this rule whenever they want, while a normal robot in the MM universe cant. As I said, thats why Dr. Light sealed X, because of these risks.

[X]

But even then if it is a reploid with it's own will, the rules still apply. We have our own wills and yet we follow laws. It would be the same thing for reploids. What happens when a human breaks the law by committing a very serious and heinous crime? Capital punishment aka death penalty. It's the same thing when a reploid harms a human; Termination of that reploid. Dr. Light knew he wouldn't live 30 more years to see the results of the testing so he sealed X away. Personally I think Dr. Light should have put himself in suspended animation for the duration of 30 years, and then checked on X reliability. We could argue back and fourth about this all day but I don't think we really need to. But just try to trust me on this. if you wish to learn more about said rules of robotics then either read 'I Robot' or watch the film based on it titled; I Robot. The book was written by Issac Asimov and it makes you think about the fine line in more ways then just black and white.

[Lelygax]

I've watched this movie and it seems that we are having a misunderstanding here because of the meaning of the word. I will try to explain what Im trying to say in a different manner.

Law in the world: You follow them because otherwise you will be punished for doing things that are considered wrong. You choose to follow them or not. You can ignore the rules.

Law in robotics: You follow them because they are implanted in your "mechanic brain", you simply cant do otherwise, you dont have a option, it restrict your actions. If a machine has been programed to do squares, it will not do round things. If it break this law, it simply doesnt apply to these laws, it being a bug OR as in the case of reploids, because they arent there as a law.

IDK if someone here is understanding what Im trying to say.

[X]

No, I get what you are saying. Believe me I do Lelgax    But even a reploid must follow the law whatever those laws might be. Both you and I have minds of our own yet we choose to stay within the confines of the law. Moral sense of choice if nothing else. A reploid would be in the exact same situation. And it would be considered a danger to human life and/or society if it chose to go against the confines of the law just like any one of us would be.

[Lelygax]

 Yes, but reploids like X can harm people and be punished. While robots like Rock can't harm people without. Thats is more or less what Im trying to say, but only now I found a way to put it in more simple words. English not being my native language can be a pain sometimes. xD

 Im not saying that you are wrong or something like that, Im only trying to say that models before the Reploids (Maybe Protoman is a exception, I cant guarantee) doesnt have total free-will to harm people, while Reploids have.

[Flame]

Like I said, the laws EXIST in some form. Light mentions them in X1's intro text.

However, again. There is nothing to suggest that Classic series Robots are incapable of breaking them just as Reploids are. Classic robot AI is not as advanced as Reploid AI because despite having free will and consciousness, they still follow the personalities they were programmed with. Which is why Wily's robots all have these quirky personalities. Rock is a good person because Dr. Light programmed him that way. He still however, chose of his own will, to go stop his reprogrammed brothers in Mega Man 1. That was not a pre-programmed response. He was designed as a Household robot, not a a battle robot. But hefelt the need to step up to the plate and defend the world from his brothers, and Light accepted it.

X, is a good person not just because his personality was programmed that way, but because he's just a nice person. He chooses to be a good guy. His personality can and DOES change over the X and Zero series. What sets aside Classic robots and Reploids is the ability to grow. X was designed with the mental age of a 17 year old, but his mind grows like a Real human's does. He learns and his personality evolves with it.

Keep in mind, that the difference between Classic Robot and Reploid may be technically big, in terms of AI complexity and capability, but they are not that different. They are close enough that a Reploid would consider them another Reploid. In tatsunoko Vs. Capcom, (dont give me that not canon crap, I know that, but it's still made by Capcom, and it is worth mentioning) If you beat Roll as Zero, he calls her a Housekeeping Reploid. Implying the difference is not that big.

Also, I know that die wily was an American addition. In the original, Wily goes something along the lines of: "You..? Shoot me? But I'm a Human!" to which Rock just stands there and goes "...", not saying anything. But the very fact that he considered it, shows that he is not mentally BOUND by the laws of robotics. He follows them because it would be a bad thing to not do so.

Keep in mind he attacks Wily directly many times while he's in his machines. If Rock were BOUND by the laws, he would not be able to oppose Wily's machines for the possibility of hurting him. And sure enough, when Wily's machines explode, you often see Wily singed with his clothes torn up. Sure it's for comedic effect, but the point stands that blowing Wily's machines up with him inside would violate the first rule of robotics

Also, Wily could just order Rock around if he were bound by the laws, since the 2nd law states a Robot must follow any command a Human gives, as long as it doesnt violate the first law.

The laws of robotics are RIDICULOUSLY restrictive for Mega Man series robots.

On X series Reploids- We never really see what happens when a non-maverick Reploid harms a Human, since the series revolves around Mavericks, but most Reploids don't harm Humans not because of some arbitrary rule of robotics. It's because they have no reason to. They have no reason to harm a Human or Reploid, like I would have no reason to harm any of you. It would make no sense, and I'd have to be crazy to do so for no reason.

I assume (this is conjecture here mind you) that Regular Reploids are tried under the law like anyone else. Of course they would have to decide wether it was a maverick attack or not, but those are pretty obvious. He would be tried, go to jail, or if they have a death penalty, get scrapped.

Keep in mind, that in maverick Hunter X, in Day of Sigma, Vile is sent to a penitentiary for being overly destructive. He's led away by two officers (Hunter or not who knows- most likely) in handcuffs. He's disarmed, and his hands and legs are cuffed, and he's placed into a cell. So obviously Reploids don't just get killed for crimes, they get treated like anyone else does. they get jail time.

[X]

Yes, but reploids like X can harm people and be punished. While robots like Rock can't harm people without. Thats is more or less what Im trying to say, but only now I found a way to put it in more simple words. English not being my native language can be a pain sometimes. xD

 Im not saying that you are wrong or something like that, Im only trying to say that models before the Reploids (Maybe Protoman is a exception, I cant guarantee) doesnt have total free-will to harm people, while Reploids have.

I can understand you just fine so no biggy    We've both now have come to the point of understanding each other's points of view so it's all good. Also Flame has a very good grasp on his Mega Man lore so reading his posts is very informative.

[Flame]

I'm a huge Megaman fan.  I mostly visit Megaman forums. I also occasionally contribute to the Megaman. Network Wiki.


This is probably a blasphemous thing to say on a Castlevania forum, but I love Megaman more than any other franchise! XD

[Lelygax]

I love Megaman too, its one of my favorites, maybe he i top 1 and Sonic is my top 2.

Like I said, the laws EXIST in some form. Light mentions them in X1's intro text.

They exist, but doesnt aplly as a lock anymore. So they act as a real lawm not a lock. Even Dr. Light says that he didn't know if X will follow the rules, because he have free will and doesnt is restricted.

Mega Man X Intro

However, again. There is nothing to suggest that Classic series Robots are incapable of breaking them just as Reploids are.

The video above suggest that, since Dr. Light didn't needed to seal any other robot and didn't even cared about that before creating X. Also this is another proof (we have mentioned it here, but a video may help for people that didn't have seen or doesnt remember):

Megaman VII (SNES) Ending

ロックマン7 エンディング

[Flame]

The Japanese one doesn't help much if you can't read Japanese. But regardless, It still provides the very fact that Rock considered aiming at Wily directly, proving that Classic series robots are not programmed with them.

[Flame]

http://www.rockman-corner.com/2013/03/one-of-these-d-arts-proposals-is-not.html

Oh shit son.