Topic: Exolutionary Steps to make Metroidvanis better...?

[KaZudra]

Wow, alot of suggestions are with/against the level system, I got a few Ideas to help out

Enemies that Grow with you at certain level Ratios, FFVIII did this and it made grinding a tactical choice since enemies will get harder as you level

a Borderlands style EXP system, allow yourself to see the exp bar, get Rewarded for quests and Challenges.

OR

a Nerfed lvl system (like simon's quest and HD) that applies to assential stats and the rest relies on equipment.

[Pemburu Vampir]

Yeah, but even in games with experience levels, isn't leveling up STILL an optional thing. You can grind if you want an easier game, but if you want to go through the "hard" mode, you could opt to try the low level playthrough that you see sometimes on YouTube. It's not like a traditional RPG, where you're stuck in an actual battle and if you are underleveled, there's no way to escape. In CV, you if you know enemy movement, you can try your best to avoid harder enemies, or slug away until they die.

The thing is, I do not like to force myself in a low level run, if I could beat the enemies and bosses easier in higher level.

I'd rather have the game to force the player to fight the enemies and bosses with strategies, like the old Classicvanias or the 2D Metroid series.

[X]

They could make level 1 cap mode being disponible from the start.

They did this in PoR. God that was torture!

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

The thing is, I do not like to force myself in a low level run, if I could beat the enemies and bosses easier in higher level.

I'd rather have the game to force the player to fight the enemies and bosses with strategies, like the old Classicvanias or the 2D Metroid series.

So basically you just want a metroidvania to be more like a classicvania?

[Pemburu Vampir]

So basically you just want a metroidvania to be more like a classicvania?

Yes, and to be more like Metroid. It is Metroidvania after all.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Yes, and to be more like Metroid. It is Metroidvania after all.

But IMO that kinda defeats the purpose of a metroidvania.

The one thing that really sets it apart from the classicvanias is the level up system.

Taking that away would really dampen a metroidvania IMO.

It would be kinda weird adding a level up feature to a classicvania now would it not?

[Pemburu Vampir]

But IMO that kinda defeats the purpose of a metroidvania.

The one thing that really sets it apart from the classicvanias is the level up system.

Taking that away would really dampen a metroidvania IMO.

No, what really sets it apart from the classicvanias is the Metroid-style map and the collectible power-ups, weapons and items.

leveling up is really not an important part for a Metroidvania games. See Lament of Innocence for example.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

I'm not denying that the map and level design also play a part in setting it apart from the classicvanias.

But I think it is pretty obvious that the level up system also plays a major part in separating it from the typical classicvanias.

To me a metroidvania would not feel the same without it.

We have come to expect it somewhat with all the handhelds games having it afterwards.

And to be honest I really never considered LOI to be a true metroidvania considering it had a hub area.

I'm not saying that it would not be a metroidvania without the leveling up system.

But I am saying that it would not feel the same without it IMO.

Like I said earlier, would it not feel kinda weird having a classicvania with a leveling up system?

[C Belmont]

The problem with Levelling systems is that they sometimes force the player to tune the game to their own difficulty level by doing boring & repetive activities rather than the designers using their brains to make it widely playable & challenging to begin with.I think here are certainly far better ways of dropping struggling players a lifeline.

[KaZudra]

But IMO that kinda defeats the purpose of a metroidvania.

The one thing that really sets it apart from the classicvanias is the level up system.

Taking that away would really dampen a metroidvania IMO.

It would be kinda weird adding a level up feature to a classicvania now would it not?

http://www.ugo.com/games/best-metroidvania-games
http://www.diygamer.com/2010/01/indie-10-metroidvanias/

Mojority of these do not have Level up, yet are metroidvanias,

It'll probably do better without the Level up or Drop rate RPG elements since majority of the time in Igavanias are spent Grinding and Farming,
It also forces the game to be longer since you'll actually be playing.

[Deko21]

An idea just hit me while i was at the store. What about have the player play as a person who actually serves Dracula rather than one that's out to kill him? It'd be a rather interesting take and really different from the norm.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

http://www.ugo.com/games/best-metroidvania-games
http://www.diygamer.com/2010/01/indie-10-metroidvanias/

Mojority of these do not have Level up, yet are metroidvanias,

It'll probably do better without the Level up or Drop rate RPG elements since majority of the time in Igavanias are spent Grinding and Farming,
It also forces the game to be longer since you'll actually be playing.

Read my post above carefully.

I NEVER said that it would not be metroidvania without leveling up.

I only said that it would not feel the same IMO.

Of course the level up system does not make it a metroidvania.

I never said that at all.

I do however think that It feels better when a metroidvania does have the level up system.

I have become used to it actually.

[Kusanagi]

Wouldn't it be easier to make another type of vania instead of classifying it as a metroidvania?

As things are, the leveling up is just something most people will expect from a metroidvania. Some will probably hold some issue against using the term just because of what they expect from a metroidvania game from Konami.

I may be with the minority, but I do like the leveling up system for the games. At the same time I don't mind the game not having a leveling up system and you just sweep through the game like Rondo of Blood (Rondo of Blood I always find myself going back to because of my usual time constraints).

Picking up items only to boost stats I don't mind at all , but the leveling up system shouldn't be scrapped altogether is all. Some of us like myself enjoy that aspect of the game.

Edit: To tell the difference, I usually call characters getting stronger via found Equipment/Items "Equipment based leveling system" or "item stat booster system". When I say leveling up system, I'll mean the traditional kill things for exp, just cus thats what I usually reference to and what most people will think of right off the bat.

Don't know why I felt the need to mention this, but I might as well be clear on what I meant xD

[PFG9000]

Read my post above carefully.

I NEVER said that it would not be metroidvania without leveling up.

I only said that it would not feel the same IMO.

Of course the level up system does not make it a metroidvania.

I never said that at all.

IMO a metroidvania is not a metroidvania without a leveling up system.

I think this is back when you were defining "leveling up" differently than everybody else, but you did say it. 

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Yea but check my comment afterwards.

After thinking about it a bit after posting that I changed my opinion on that as evidenced by my latest comments.

I still however think that the level up system holds a major part in the metroidvania genre.

And I metroidvania would not feel the same without it.