Topic: My Vampire Killer whip question

[Phoenix7786]

Either way, I think had Richter and Alucard actually fought, Richter would have annihilated Alucard and the world would have been doomed. Good thing for Maria's help and for the Holy Glasses.

I'm inclined to agree. Trevor himself was able to defeat Alucard (and yes I know that Alucard wasn't fighting full-force but the point remains that Trevor defeated him), and the lore suggests Richter was stronger than Trevor. With Richter being mind-controlled I'm sure it affected his fighting capability in some way. But had the two had a legit fight, I'm inclined to think he'd have won.

[Thomas Belmont]

Yeah that  sounds really cool too.

growing stronger very time it kills him  i like that.

I'm inclined to agree. Trevor himself was able to defeat Alucard (and yes I know that Alucard wasn't fighting full-force but the point remains that Trevor defeated him), and the lore suggests Richter was stronger than Trevor. With Richter being mind-controlled I'm sure it affected his fighting capability in some way. But had the two had a legit fight, I'm inclined to think he'd have won.

I never bought that. I think Alucard gave it his all and Trevor kicked his ass.

[Gable Belmont]

LOL i love that man oh lol .

[crisis]

3. Richter was the strongest Belmont and was able to wield the whip at maximum power. Once it was passed from the Belmonts to the Morris' it's power weakened and retrograded.

Also to note that Jonathan had to defeat the Whip's Memory, AKA Richiter, to unlock it's full power. However it would've eventually drained his life & inadvertantly killed him like it did his father. Because of this, passing the whip to the Morris', despite being related by blood, seemed more like a burden than a blessing. All for the greater good, though~

[Phoenix7786]

I never bought that. I think Alucard gave it his all and Trevor kicked his ass.

Honestly I've always believed that too but you're the first to actually agree with me, so I had just kind of tossed that in there as a sort of concession.

[Profbeanburrito]

Hi there just wanted to ask something that’s been on my mind for some time.

Does anyone knows why some members of the Belmont clan’s Vampire Killer is a chain whip and others have leather whip. Is it something to do with power levels or which one matches the wielder’s personality best Has someone on the CV team ever said why, Is there a fan idea ?
So yeah thanks for the read. 

This has always been my thought: It's easier to animate a chain whip in 2D the a leather whip, and it's easier to animate a leather whip in 3D than a chain whip (up until LoS). This has always been my guess, I'm sure originally it's was also cause chain whips are stronger and it's the only upgrade to a leather whip, so that works gameplay wise. But I think it also may be the interpretation of the artist at the time

[BushidoViking]

Sorry for it being so long..But this answers A lot.

The whip was originally a less powerful magic weapon created with alchemy by Rinaldo Gandolfi prior to Castlevania: Lament of Innocence, known as the Whip of Alchemy. Eventually, it was transformed into a far, far more powerful weapon after the death of Sara Trantoul, the betrothed of Leon Belmont, wielder of the Whip of Alchemy. Sara, who had been fatally cursed with vampirism, had to willingly sacrifice herself to make the whip "whole" and able to defeat powerful vampires. This was because the whip needed a willing, yet tainted soul to unlock its true potential.
This whip not only does serious damage to vampires, but to any demon. Even the Grim Reaper, Death himself, is damaged by the whip. As Leon says at the end of Lament of Innocence - "I have the power to destroy all related to the vampires. Though you (Death) have divine powers, you are no exception." This signifies that the Vampire Killer whip now could damage most fallen angels that took tangible form in the physical world. Because it was made with alchemy it explains how it can turn from a leather whip to a chained flail.

The Vampire Killer was first used to destroy Dracula in 1476, by Trevor Belmont. After this, it was passed down through the generations of the Belmont family until the 18th century, when it came into the possession of Richter Belmont. After Dracula's defeat by his son, Alucard, in 1797, the Vampire Killer disappeared and the duty of opposing Dracula was taken up by organisations such as Ecclesia. Although the whip's exact location went unknown for some time, it eventually fell into the hands of the Schneider family, and later into the hands of the Morris Clan, who had been entrusted with holding the whip and using it until the rightful time, 1999, when it would be needed by the Belmonts once more.

The Vampire Killer ultimately returned to the Belmonts by 1999, when Julius Belmont sealed it in Dracula's Castle to weaken Dracula during the Demon Castle War. Julius retrieves the whip during the events of 2035 and uses it against Soma Cruz. Julius again uses the whip during the events of 2036.


In most games, the Vampire Killer is a standard leather whip, but there are several titles in which the Vampire Killer is actually depicted as a chain whip or even as a flail of sorts. The most famous and most used version of the Vampire Killer was the Morning Star form. This form is a chain whip with a small mace ball tip. The length is normally about 1 to 1 ½ length of a man's height (5-7 feet long).
The Vampire Killer can be upgraded in most games by collecting a Morning Star symbol; changing from a leather whip to a chain whip, then to the morning star. Alternatively, in Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, upgrades to the whip are purchased. The first upgrade is a Thorn Whip, which increases attack power and also the length of the whip slightly. The next is the Chain Whip, which raises the whip's attack power. The last upgrades are the Morning Star Whip, which extends the length of the whip again while increasing damage, and finally the Flame Whip, which maxes out the Vampire Killer's power.

In some games, the whip can be left dangling or spinning by holding the attack button. It helps by protecting against projectiles and weak, hard to hit enemies such as Medusa Heads and Flea Men, but does comparatively little damage.

In Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin, it is revealed that use of the whip by a person who is not a direct descendant of the Belmont clan is potentially deadly, and that it was indeed the Vampire Killer that killed John Morris, whose life was drained away by the legendary weapon. However, before it can reach this level of power, the specific indirect descendant who wants to use the Vampire Killer must undergo a trial to unlock its true strength. Otherwise, the whip will not manifest its legendary power, and seem for all intents and purposes to be a fairly ordinary leather whip, inferior to most kinds of combat weaponry. One thing to note is that when not fully powered up the whip looks the same as that of a steel whip, however when fully powered, the whip glows red, green, and blue; all within the length of swinging the whip.It is possible that this is the true appearence of the Vampire Killers power because this is the only difference in appearence between the two. Many other games such as Rondo of Blood, Bloodlines, etc. also shows the whip glowing multiple colors while landing ordinary attacks. John's son, Jonathan Morris, is given the opportunity by the daughters of Eric Lecarde to unlock the whip's true strength at the potential cost of his life; whether or not Jonathan takes them up on this offer is up to the player.

[Shiroi Koumori]

^ Thank you for that amazing post!  +1

[JoshuaKadmon]

The Vampire Killer was first used to destroy Dracula in 1476, by Trevor Belmont. After this, it was passed down through the generations of the Belmont family until the 18th century, when it came into the possession of Richter Belmont. After Dracula's defeat by his son, Alucard, in 1797, the Vampire Killer disappeared and the duty of opposing Dracula was taken up by organisations such as Ecclesia. Although the whip's exact location went unknown for some time, it eventually fell into the hands of the Schneider family, and later into the hands of the Morris Clan, who had been entrusted with holding the whip and using it until the rightful time, 1999, when it would be needed by the Belmonts once more.

The Vampire Killer ultimately returned to the Belmonts by 1999, when Julius Belmont sealed it in Dracula's Castle to weaken Dracula during the Demon Castle War. Julius retrieves the whip during the events of 2035 and uses it against Soma Cruz. Julius again uses the whip during the events of 2036.

It always made me wonder how the whip got from Richter to its later users.  This is my theory...

**POSSIBLE SPOILERS**

First, let's look at what we DO know.  After SotN's true ending, the whip obviously stays with Richter for quite some time, but we're told that the Belmonts disappeared in the 1800s and were replaced in their duties by organizations like Ecclesia.  Nathan Graves used a whip in CotM (1830), but I think we all agree that it was not the Vampire Killer.  The next time it appears after Richter is in the hands of Reinhardt Schneider (1852), but then it's absent during the events of Bram Stoker's Dracula.  Or at least, we know that Quincey Morris does not use it in the showdown against the count, instead stabbing him with a Bowie knife.  Despite this, Quincey's son John gets the whip somehow, even though he was only two years old when his father died and couldn't have actually followed him around the Transylvanian countryside as Bloodlines (1917) implies.  John dies from the Vampire Killer's effect on non-pure Belmont descendants, and his son Jonathan inherits it for Portrait of Ruin.  With Julius, the pure Belmont bloodline suddenly reappears, he seals Dracula in the Battle of 1999 and leaves the whip inside the castle, only to retrieve it 36 years later.

Now, let's consider the plot holes and how they may be filled logically.

Richter was angry with himself over being mind-controlled, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that he never had children or even an apprentice.  Or if he did have children with Annette, he may not have wanted his child to share his vampire-hunting fate, even though we know that the whip eventually came back into the Belmonts' possession.  Upon Richter's eventual death, the Vampire Killer must have been passed to another relative, possibly separated from the Belmonts by marriage or other family connections.  We can assume that it fell into the care of a Schneider ancestor, who I believe must have originally lived in Wygol village during Ecclesia.

Now, according to the events of Ecclesia, we're told that Wygol village was home to the last known descendants of the Belmont clan (which would have included the Schneider and Morris families).  If we believe that Ecclesia's loose 1800s timeframe was actually closer to the mid-1840s (somewhere between Circle of the Moon and Legacy of Darkness, since the Belmonts were also absent during those events), what if Professor Van Helsing of Bram Stoker's Dracula was actually a prodigious student of Ecclesia prior to Barlowe's fall?  If that were true, and it is totally believable considering Van Helsing's knowledge of Dracula and the arcane, then he could have been privy to the Belmont connection to Wygol village.  He may have even made the acquaintance of some of the villagers during and after Ecclesia's main story.

Reinhardt may have been the son of one of Wygol's residents, which would logically fit his age, and he must have taken up the whip unaware of its true power.  In that case, Dracula was acting through Malus and was attempting to force reincarnation instead of waiting for his 100-year resurrection.  He would not have been at full power, but he probably believed that he could get away with it since no Belmonts were around.  As a result, Reinhardt was able to defeat him without pushing the Vampire Killer's power to its limit, plus he had the assistance of Carrie Fernandez.  He may have escaped the Vampire Killer's deadly effects because of this, but he probably suffered some adverse reaction anyway, perhaps enough that he would have sought to get the Vampire Killer out of the Schneiders' possession.

If Reinhardt was suffering ill effects from the Vampire Killer and realized that it needed to be in the care of a higher authority, he may have asked Van Helsing for help.  The young professor would have helped treat Reinhardt and would have undoubtedly been excited to take the Vampire Killer off his hands until a proper Belmont wielder could be found.

Of course, people of Belmont blood are drawn to Dracula and his castle like moths to the flame, and although the Morris family had apparently emigrated to America following the events of Ecclesia, Quincey found his way back to London and eventually Transylvania for the showdown depicted in the Dracula novel.  My guess is that the Morris and Schneider families decided to separate from their common residence in Wygol to prevent Dracula's forces from being able to corner them in a single location ever again, with the Schneiders staying in Europe while the Morrises left for the American West.

I like to imagine that Van Helsing had a secret conversation with Quincey in 1897, identifying him as a Belmont descendent and entrusting him with the Vampire Killer.  Van Hellsing probably believed that reuniting the whip with a Belmont would greatly improve their chances of slaying the Count, but Quincey would never have actually wielded it because he was never trained to control its power.  Instead, I assume Quincey kept the Vampire Killer concealed under his coat, and although the whip's presence may have weakened the Count enough for Van Helsing's / Jonathan Harker's party to succeed, it may have also been the reason why Quincey couldn't survive his injuries.  Van Helsing would have logically taken the whip back from Quincey post-mortem, since the rest of the party would have been completely unaware of its role in the battle.

Now, let's assume that in their secret talks, Van Helsing also questioned Quincey about his young son and why he was courting Lucy in the first place.  Van Helsing was often intrusively straightforward anyway, and he would be interested in the future of Quincey's bloodline.  Quincey would have revealed that he was actually back in Europe to find a suitable home for his two-year-old son John, whose mother died in childbirth.  Quincey states that he cannot raise a child by himself in the wild American West, and it is his hope to gain the favor of a wealthy English family to adopt John.  After Quincey dies in the fight against Dracula, Van Helsing takes up his cause and finds a home for John Morris.  He selected the Lecarde family of Spain for several reasons: 1) They possessed another powerful artifact/weapon called the Alucard Spear that had a rich history of demon-slaying as recognized by Van Helsing's Ecclesian mentors, 2) They had a son close to John's age, and 3) Their home in Spain would keep them out of Dracula's sight until John and/or Eric became strong enough to face him.

Van Helsing would have left the Vampire Killer in the Lecarde's care, along with Quincey's Bowie knife and other belongings for John.  We know from Castlevania lore that the Vampire Killer carries memories of its past encounters with the Count, and if the whip was around John and Eric as they were growing up, it may have given them false memories of following John's father in the fight against Dracula.  By the time they were of age (1917), John and Eric would have been fully prepared to bring the fight to Elizabeth Bartley, the daughter of a long-slain vampire lord who exalted herself by claiming Dracula as her "uncle".  Of course, John's usage of the whip eventually killed him, and it passed to his son Jonathan for the events we're all familiar with in Portrait of Ruin.

After Jonathan and Charlotte manage to save the lives of the Lecarde twins, I imagine that the two families helped one another locate a suitable Belmont heir for the whip, since the twins obviously have the most intimate understanding of the Vampire Killer's powers yet seen in the Castlevania series.  Julius may have been the first to claim the surname Belmont once again, as he was obviously of pure blood even if his family's name had been obscured by marriage or immigration.  This may have been intentional, of course, as the Belmonts may have cast aside their surnames in their time of weakness, in order to protect themselves and their children from Dracula's vengeance.

In 1997, 100 years after the events of Bram Stoker's Dracula, the Count could have been resurrected, but learning from his past defeats (and possibly sensing the reappearance of the Belmonts), he willingly delayed his awakening, knowing that the solar eclipse of 1999 would bring him to his absolute pinnacle of dark power.  Nevertheless, Julius was ready for him, and with a band of compatriots that likely included members of the Belnades, Danasty, Morris, and Lecarde families, he killed Dracula and sealed his power once and for all.  To accomplish this, he decided to strengthen the seal by leaving the Vampire Killer inside the Demon Castle itself, but because of the whip's memory effects, separating from it also caused Julius to develop amnesia.  This is resolved when Julius meets Soma Cruz and retrieves the whip in Aria of Sorrow.  The rest is history.

That's my theory on all of those so-called plot holes, and I would love to hear your thoughts on it.

[Thomas Belmont]

It always made me wonder how the whip got from Richter to its later users.  This is my theory...

Richter was angry with himself over being mind-controlled, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that he never had children or even an apprentice.  Upon his eventual death, the Vampire Killer would have been passed to his next of kin, possibly separated from the Belmonts by marriage or other family connections.  We can assume that it fell into the care of a Schneider ancestor, who I believe must have originally lived in Wygol village during Ecclesia.

I like to believe that Richter had children with Annette. After all, we do have Julius hundreds of years later. I've always hated that "the powers that be" had the Belmonts lose the Vampire Killer. I really enjoy Bloodlines but don't feel it should have been considered canon. However, if a reason had to be given why it happened I think I'd keep it short and simple. The church, never trusting the Belmonts from the very beginning, found out about what happened to Richter and forced the whip from him and his family. Having had it's own clan of mighty warriors, trained in secret for many years as a "backup", one that it can control, the church handed over the whip to the Morris'. When the time was "right," it was handed back over to Julius.

[JoshuaKadmon]

I like to believe that Richter had children with Annette. After all, we do have Julius hundreds of years later. I've always hated that "the powers that be" had the Belmonts lose the Vampire Killer. I really enjoy Bloodlines but don't feel it should have been considered canon. However, if a reason had to be given why it happened I think I'd keep it short and simple. The church, never trusting the Belmonts from the very beginning, found out about what happened to Richter and forced the whip from him and his family. Having had it's own clan of mighty warriors, trained in secret for many years as a "backup", one that it can control, the church handed over the whip to the Morris'. When the time was "right," it was handed back over to Julius.

I changed the wording of that paragraph to allow for the possibility of Richter having children, but I think it's established at this point that the Vampire Killer was passed between extended relatives and trusted caretakers, never truly lost to the Belmonts.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Also to note that Jonathan had to defeat the Whip's Memory, AKA Richiter, to unlock it's full power. However it would've eventually drained his life & inadvertantly killed him like it did his father. Because of this, passing the whip to the Morris', despite being related by blood, seemed more like a burden than a blessing. All for the greater good, though~

**in a droning voice** -THE GREATER GOOD

This has always been my thought: It's easier to animate a chain whip in 2D the a leather whip, and it's easier to animate a leather whip in 3D than a chain whip (up until LoS). This has always been my guess, I'm sure originally it's was also cause chain whips are stronger and it's the only upgrade to a leather whip, so that works gameplay wise. But I think it also may be the interpretation of the artist at the time

Except a chain whip and a leather whip (and a laser light whip) were all animated just fine in Legacy of Darkness. >.>

[X]

Except a chain whip and a leather whip (and a laser light whip) were all animated just fine in Legacy of Darkness. >.>

They did make a successful chain whip in LoD and it's a shame it wasn't the final powerup. While I thought the laser whip was interesting it just wasn't as nifty-looking. I think when LoI and CoD were made they got lazy with the Vampirekiller's design.

[darkwzrd4]

I think that the reason the whip changed forms in the early games was to show the change in whip's power when you got an upgrade.  As we can see in the PS2 games, the whip always seems to be made from what looks like leather.  In other words, it's just an artistic choice.

As for why the Belmonts disappear from 1797 - 1999, I believe that when Richter was being controlled by Shaft, he was tainted by darkness.  It is my theory that when the connection between Richter and Shaft was severed, there was a reaction that gradually took effect on Richter that prevented him and his descendants from wielding the whip.  As a result, the whip was eventually passed from the main branch of the Belmont family to the extended family.  The reason Julius was able to wield the whip in 1999 is because over time, the darkness that tainted Richter and the bloodline went away.  With each new generation, would be less tainted than the previous one and by the time Julius was born, the darkness would be completely gone.  Thus, Julius is untainted and able to wield the whip again.

As for who win if Richter or Trevor and Alucard fought to the death, the Belmont would win.  I hate to admit it, but I think that would be the case.  However, I believe that Alucard has never actually tapped into his true potential.  If he did, it would mean fully embracing his vampire side and losing his humanity.  At the same time, I believe that because he never gives up his humanity and remains half-human, the power of the whip may not hurt him as much as it would a full vampire.

[crisis]

As for why the Belmonts disappear from 1797 - 1999, I believe that when Richter was being controlled by Shaft, he was tainted by darkness.  It is my theory that when the connection between Richter and Shaft was severed, there was a reaction that gradually took effect on Richter that prevented him and his descendants from wielding the whip.  As a result, the whip was eventually passed from the main branch of the Belmont family to the extended family.  The reason Julius was able to wield the whip in 1999 is because over time, the darkness that tainted Richter and the bloodline went away.  With each new generation, would be less tainted than the previous one and by the time Julius was born, the darkness would be completely gone.  Thus, Julius is untainted and able to wield the whip again.

[insert impending "b-but Soleiyu was tainted by evil too!" counter-argument here]

As for who win if Richter or Trevor and Alucard fought to the death, the Belmont would win.  I hate to admit it, but I think that would be the case.  However, I believe that Alucard has never actually tapped into his true potential.  If he did, it would mean fully embracing his vampire side and losing his humanity.  At the same time, I believe that because he never gives up his humanity and remains half-human, the power of the whip may not hurt him as much as it would a full vampire.

If Alucard has a demon form like his father, I wonder if it would look like this