Topic: Are the Belmonts the only ones to defeat Drac at his full strength?

[TheCruelAngel]

If we consider ambiguously canon CV titles, Reinhardt Schneider/Carrie Fernandez defeated a full powered Dracula, since in LoD Dracula absorbed Cornell's power to fully resurrect himself, no?

[Nagumo]

Besides, even if it was, that conversation between Dracula and Alucard would never have happened because either Trevor or Simon, who ever fought him first, would have defeated Alucard.

I guess Alucard was just sandbagging during CV3 and SotN, with all this talk about him holding back etc. I like Trevor as well but if they say he didn't fight Dracula at full strength, then that's how it is.

If we consider ambiguously canon CV titles, Reinhardt Schneider/Carrie Fernandez defeated a full powered Dracula, since in LoD Dracula absorbed Cornell's power to fully resurrect himself, no?

There's also Vampire Hunter and Lady Gunner. Sonia as well, maybe.

[X]

Maxim had prematurely brought Dracula back for the 2nd time (since Simon did it too), so Dracula barely being able to manifest as a ghost was really good continuity with the lore. Even then though, Juste being a full-fledged Belmont was overkill.

Maxim never prematurely brought Dracula back to life. He simply found all the remains which then created a separate entity out from Maxims' dark desires and brought Castlevania back to the Earth realm. This entity is the one who kidnaps Liddy, taunts and fights Juste once prior to the end of the game, and uses the remains at the end of the game to make himself his own body. And there we have the 'Dracula Wraith'. Dracula himself was never in HoD.

[Phoenix7786]

Maxim never prematurely brought Dracula back to life. He simply found all the remains which then created a separate entity out from Maxims' dark desires and brought Castlevania back to the Earth realm. This entity is the one who kidnaps Liddy, taunts and fights Juste once prior to the end of the game, and uses the remains at the end of the game to make himself his own body. And there we have the 'Dracula Wraith'. Dracula himself was never in HoD.

I've got save-states of all the dialogue in HoD but it's going to be too many pics to post. But HoD is really ambiguous. Death and Maxim identify the "evil" Maxim as Dracula, while Evil Maxim identifies himself as some other spirit. Personally, I don't see Death serving someone who isn't Dracula.

Maxim: Ju- Juste...
Juste: Maxim!  Is it the real you?
M: ...  The other one...  So you met him...
J: Yeah...
M :Oh...  Dracula's power is great...  soon he'll swallow me completely.

Here Maxim ID's the power as Dracula, and claims that he will consume Maxim's consciousness.

Juste: Ah, it's you!
Death   : You know a man named...  Maxim, I believe.
J:   And, if I do?
D:   That man...  He's obtained something which contains Lord Dracula's power, has he not?
J:   Could it have something to do with Dracula's relics?
D:   Relics?  I see, then it all adds up.
J:   What do you mean?
D:   Yes, that explains everything.  You have my thanks.  It's so simple...  That man brought forth the castle.
J:   What?  There's no reason Maxim would do such a thing!
D:   Perhaps not at first.  But, if he obtained Lord Dracula's relics, then it's a different story.  Two
   spirits have received Dracula's power, and brought this castle into existence once again.
J:   Two spirits?
D:   At the moment two spirits dwell within Maxim.  There is his own soul...  The other is the evil spirit of
   my lord, Dracula, which came from his relics.
J   That's absurd.
D   Still, I wonder why two castles have materialized...  Dracula's spirit alone should have sought to call
   forth the castle, but...

Here Death corroborates Maxim's tale about the evil spirit belonging to the count.

EM   Oh?  You're still alive, eh?
Juste   Maxim!  No, it's not him.
M   Oh, so you've found me out, then?
J   Who the devil are you?
M   I am myself.  Though, I'm not the same Maxim you know.  I am the desires that were once sealed away in
   this man.  Since he obtained the relics of Dracula, another spirit took form within him.  I am that
   other.  I don't know if he's even aware of me.
J   Is abducting Lydie your work, then?
M   Heh, heh, heh, obviously...  That is of course my doing.  But the fool has lost his memories.
   He doesn't even know where he is right now!  His memories will soon be revived.  If we come to share those,
   the woman will be mine.
J   Bastard!
M   If I perish, your dear friend will die along with me.  Is that all right with you?
J   Damn!
M   You will die here, scum!

Yet here Evil Maxim identifies himself as some latent desire within Maxim, rather than the count. Personally I'm on Maxim and Death's side that the evil spirit is indeed Count Dracula and not Maxim's psyche.

[Thomas Belmont]

I guess Alucard was just sandbagging during CV3 and SotN, with all this talk about him holding back etc. I like Trevor as well but if they say he didn't fight Dracula at full strength, then that's how it is.

There's also Vampire Hunter and Lady Gunner. Sonia as well, maybe.

First of all, I don't even think Iga's parents would consider Judgement canon. Secondly, why the hell would Alucard hold back against Trevor? He didn't know who Trevor was. Alucard gave it his all and Trevor kicked his ass. He even told Trevor that he was surprised that Trevor defeated him.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Alucard could very easily know who Trevor was by the scent of his blood.
The evidence is shown later in Symphony.

Death seems to have a similar ability though it could be a translation issue
"The scent of  your blood... you're a Belmont!" - Alucard, SotN -
"Halt! The color of your soul... you must be a Belmont!" - Death, HoD -
(translation for 'scent of your blood' and 'color of your soul' is ambiguous but I need a Japanese Linguist to corroborate)

Since Alucard has these powers, and he has met a Belmont before (Sonia Belmont), he could easily know who Trevor was, and even hold back as he did with Sonia.

It can be argued that Alucard holds back but not back enough where he won't put up a fight, similar to how Julius 'holds back' but still puts up a fight against Soma in AoS.
"I'm surprised you beat me. I've been waiting for you" could also be an implication that Alucard did not expect Trevor to have gotten as strong as he had, in his young age (he's not very mature in CVIII yet, he matures in Curse of Darkness, where he is only 23 years old).

[Flame]

I have absolutely no problem with Death being able to see souls. I mean, he's death. that would be right up his alley of expertise.

[Nagumo]

First of all, I don't even think Iga's parents would consider Judgement canon.

Well, on what do you base that on aside from personal opinion? As far as I know Judgment is meant to tie into the storyline.

Secondly, why the hell would Alucard hold back against Trevor? He didn't know who Trevor was. Alucard gave it his all and Trevor kicked his ass. He even told Trevor that he was surprised that Trevor defeated him.

Alucard was looking for an ally who could help him defeat Dracula. He attacked Trevor in order to test his strength.

[Attila]

Up till now no one knows what happen on Dracula resurrect at Year 1999 when Julius put a full stop on him. Might he gains full strength at end of 20th century?

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Supposedly he was super powerful in 1999, but was still defeated.
It took an army and a special team of Vampire Hunters, both of light (Yoko, Mina's parents) and dark alignment (Alucard).

And he still wasn't truly defeated.  His method of resurrection and his domain (Castlevania) were sealed.  The former prevented his soul from escaping and resurrecting, a byproduct of which was that he was reborn as Soma Cruz. The latter meant that the Castle itself, the source of his power (Chaos) would be unable to corrupt his reincarnated soul... for a time.

Cut off the source of power and give the soul a fresh start and you get a dude like Soma.  Said dude behaves similar to the OLD Vlad, before Elisabetha died.  If Mina is harmed or dies, however, as it happens in Dawn of Sorrow's non-canon endings, history repeats itself.

[X]

Maxim: Ju- Juste...
Juste: Maxim!  Is it the real you?
M: ...  The other one...  So you met him...
J: Yeah...
M :Oh...  Dracula's power is great...  soon he'll swallow me completely.

Here Maxim ID's the power as Dracula, and claims that he will consume Maxim's consciousness.

Juste: Ah, it's you!
Death   : You know a man named...  Maxim, I believe.
J:   And, if I do?
D:   That man...  He's obtained something which contains Lord Dracula's power, has he not?
J:   Could it have something to do with Dracula's relics?
D:   Relics?  I see, then it all adds up.
J:   What do you mean?
D:   Yes, that explains everything.  You have my thanks.  It's so simple...  That man brought forth the castle.
J:   What?  There's no reason Maxim would do such a thing!
D:   Perhaps not at first.  But, if he obtained Lord Dracula's relics, then it's a different story.  Two
   spirits have received Dracula's power, and brought this castle into existence once again.
J:   Two spirits?
D:   At the moment two spirits dwell within Maxim.  There is his own soul...  The other is the evil spirit of
   my lord, Dracula, which came from his relics.
J   That's absurd.
D   Still, I wonder why two castles have materialized...  Dracula's spirit alone should have sought to call
   forth the castle, but...

Here Death corroborates Maxim's tale about the evil spirit belonging to the count.

EM   Oh?  You're still alive, eh?
Juste   Maxim!  No, it's not him.
M   Oh, so you've found me out, then?
J   Who the devil are you?
M   I am myself.  Though, I'm not the same Maxim you know.  I am the desires that were once sealed away in
   this man.  Since he obtained the relics of Dracula, another spirit took form within him.  I am that
   other.  I don't know if he's even aware of me.
J   Is abducting Lydie your work, then?
M   Heh, heh, heh, obviously...  That is of course my doing.  But the fool has lost his memories.
   He doesn't even know where he is right now!  His memories will soon be revived.  If we come to share those,
   the woman will be mine.
J   Bastard!
M   If I perish, your dear friend will die along with me.  Is that all right with you?
J   Damn!
M   You will die here, scum!

Yet here Evil Maxim identifies himself as some latent desire within Maxim, rather than the count. Personally I'm on Maxim and Death's side that the evil spirit is indeed Count Dracula and not Maxim's psyche.

Is all this of the Japanese script? If so then I guess Dracula really is in the game. But that is not what is mentioned in the American version.

[Phoenix7786]

Yeah that's the Japanese script. The Americanized translation is more ambiguous.

[darkwzrd4]

Yeah that's the Japanese script. The Americanized translation is more ambiguous.

So, once again the translators change just a few sentences and the whole thing gets messed up.  Why can't translators just do straight translations with the only changes made for sake of grammar? This a perfect example.

[Thomas Belmont]

Alucard could very easily know who Trevor was by the scent of his blood.
The evidence is shown later in Symphony.

Death seems to have a similar ability though it could be a translation issue
"The scent of  your blood... you're a Belmont!" - Alucard, SotN -
"Halt! The color of your soul... you must be a Belmont!" - Death, HoD -
(translation for 'scent of your blood' and 'color of your soul' is ambiguous but I need a Japanese Linguist to corroborate)

Since Alucard has these powers, and he has met a Belmont before (Sonia Belmont), he could easily know who Trevor was, and even hold back as he did with Sonia.

It can be argued that Alucard holds back but not back enough where he won't put up a fight, similar to how Julius 'holds back' but still puts up a fight against Soma in AoS.
"I'm surprised you beat me. I've been waiting for you" could also be an implication that Alucard did not expect Trevor to have gotten as strong as he had, in his young age (he's not very mature in CVIII yet, he matures in Curse of Darkness, where he is only 23 years old).

How would Alucard even know what a Belmont smelled like at the time of Dracula's Curse? His first meeting with a Belmont was with Trevor. Legends wasn't even made yet, and it's not even canon. Alucard is just a weaker version of his father. In SotN, he fought a weakened Dracula whose "true form" was him sitting on his throne. He didn't even stand up. If Alucard was able to defeat a fully powered Dracula, he would be the one battling him every hundred years instead of the Belmonts. However, that is not the case.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Yeah that's the Japanese script. The Americanized translation is more ambiguous.

Jesus, dude.  Did you have to take the huge 1080p images and upload 'em as attachments?