Topic: Will the old timeline be used again ?

[olrox2]

Hello, i am new here, i discovered the website because it was on first answer on Google when i googled castlevania forum(for the first time since before first answer was  a website in my country).

I have played lots of Castlevania, almost all the old Platform games, the gba games, the psx and PS2 games, i am only missing the ds games which i may buy one day at the same time as a Nintendo 3DS.

I have checked informations stating Lords of Shadow has a new timeline (which is true since his story happens in the same century as Leon, they cant have lived at the same era)

I wanted to know if the classic timeline would be used again when Lords of Shadow is over, or if they will build a third timeline. I like the idea of a huge timeline, because it means you can say, ten years ago i played that game, and now this new one is about the conséquences of that episode-a prequel,etc.

[Chernabogue]

Nobody knows for sure. Maybe, maybe not.

[KaZudra]

The LoS games have given the Castlevania games enough popularity to get the mainstreamers to play SoTN and other Castlevania Titles...

If the LoSverse could be added to, I'm sure Konami would jump on that first....

on the other hand, more people have played games from the old time-line giving a whole new opportunity to add to it.

But I would think it would be best to give the old timeline the New 52 treatment with a semi-reboot, changing enough of the story to add or redo games without changing it completely

[A-Yty]

At the moment, it seems very unlikely. Those who jumped on board when LoS started don't know much or care about the original canon.

As for Konami? Well, they have neglected Castlevania for so long. I don't think LoS is going to make them rethink their attitude. Original fans are the one who care about finishing the story and they're not "economically viable".

The only one who could have a personal interest in concluding the original timeline, is IGA. And he's not working on CV anymore.

[Shiroi Koumori]

First of all, welcome to the dungeon! 

As for your question, the answer depends on Konami.
I personally want to return to the old timeline just for the 1999 game.
I don't know if the LoS saga can have any more additions. I really prefer it to be a trilogy.
Konami might allow another reboot of the original timeline if they choose another developer to have their take on Castlevania.

[Pfil]

I don't think so. Konami doesn't care about CV, and even less about life-long fans.
Chances are we'll be seeing a new reboot by a new team, so that Konami can collect the money without doing nothing.
We can always hope for a Kickstarter by Iga.

[olrox2]

I knew Castlevania wasnt a "best-seller" licence but i had always seen it as a solid series of game( for me its one of the only konami games i keep following with interest having given up any kind of hope for silent hill, and being less interested in MGS than before).
I know letting a studio make the game is supposed to reduce costs, but i feel it may be better if companies like Konami or Capcom developed once again their games by themselves.

[Beaumont_Belmont]

I'm hoping they come back to it eventually. It looks to me like LoS is pretty much a closed thing with 2 as an end and I hope they don't continue it beyond that. The series had been a fairly uninspired zombie for a while (as much as I enjoyed PoR and OoE they didn't really deviate heavily from the "safe" things we came to expect from Metroidvania) and LoS is just a different kind of uninspired.

I want a 1999 game. Julius is too cool to leave him by the wayside and forget he exists. And at the same time I'd kind of like to see the series returned to its roots, with the enemies drawn primarily from gothic horror rather than mythology or random other things (Ninja maids gotta go). I'd like to see it stripped of some of the things that have made the post SoTN games so safe and cozy. I want Castlevania to be spooky and dangerous again, but I doubt that's gonna happen.

[Nagumo]

Lords of Shadow is done after LoS2. Get over it, guys. 

Anyway, a while back, someone leaked a (supposed) email with an MercurySteam employee, which revealed something interesting. Sometime after or during the development of the first Lords of Shadow there talks about how they handle the continuity in the series. At first they were considering either letting Lords of Shadow taking over the continuity entirely or constantly switching between the old continuity and the reboot canon. Eventually, it was decided that Castlevania wouldn't have one definite history anymore, just like Final Fantasy.

I'm going to assume it's true for the sake of the discussion. I agree with A-Yty that only IGA would want to continue the old storyline because it's his story and he is the one who created it. However, I have a feeling he will be back. Contrary to what many people say, he was never taken of the Castlevania series because of Lords of Shadow. The only reason exists in the first place is because IGA cancelled his next 3D attempt (all of this is straight from Cox's mouth). So, I think there's a solid chance he will be back.

However, I also think there most likely will be stories in other continuities produced alongside his games. Especially after 2009 and onwards, there has been a boom in AU games, with the Arcade, the Pachislot games, and possibily Adventure Rebirth, too.             

[A-Yty]

it's his story and he is the one who created it.         

I'm not sure I'd express it like this (nor would IGA, probably) but he definitely has contributed to the story more than any single person. However, he also respects and has taken into consideration the storylines made by people before him. This hasn't always worked to his advantage. For example I love Bloodlines, but forcing Stoker's actual story to CV canon instead of using it as an inspiration doesn't work well. Maybe in gaiden, but that's about it.

My hope is that he will be involved in the Demon Castle War game, but he should not handle it alone. He would need help with writing the story and gameplay decisions and such. And I doubt he would disagree with this (I think he himself has stated he doesn't think he could live up to the expectations placed on DCW). But he is experienced and he cares about the canon. Even if he hasn't always done well, he has certainly tried to keep the whole 25+ flustercuck of a canon together.

How do you guys feel about the possibility of CV canon turning into a recurring story without that much of a history? My opinion is: it may appear to have benefits over trying to keep a fairly simple setting together, but that opinion may be affected by how the original CV premise has been represented over the years.

Tl;dr: I think the FF way would not be my kind of CV, because it hasn't really been shown that an actual history isn't necessary.

[Intersection]

The general consensus so far places LoS as an alternate and completely separate timeline with regards to the original chronology. In part because of the way it was presented and constructed, I can't see the Shadow universe being as heavily exploited as the original continuity has been over the years.
It's very probable that Konami will return to the "classic" timeline at one moment or another; but once it does, I'm fairly certain that it won't remain there for very long. A few reasons why:

- The LoS series is too sprawled out and unfocused for its chronology to become a useful template for future games. MercurySteam has run through a millennium in the space of three games; LoS2 is clearly intended to bring closure to a timeline which never intended to supplant the classic continuity.

- MercurySteam will be leaving Castlevania after LoS2; it is difficult to imagine its trademark universe being extended by a different developer.

- The style of LoS is considerably different from that of previous Castlevania games; future games in that timeline would be expected to follow the same formula, something which isn't very viable as a single track for later titles.

- Having two principal timelines would be far too chaotic for a series whose chronology is already haphazardly kept together.

- DCW is too good of an opportunity for Konami to pass up, especially since the series is running out of space.

- Konami might feel the need to clean up its existing timeline -- resolve inconsistencies, explain plot holes. It might also eventually need a viable closure for the canon timeline (again, DCW?). And it will need closure.

- The original continuity is too dense, too crowded, too confused -- after (and if) it returns to it, Konami will be forced to leave it at a later time.

How do you guys feel about the possibility of CV canon turning into a recurring story without that much of a history?

- This seems to be the only option in the long run. Castlevania will keep its vampire-hunting essence but will be freed of the constraints of a consistent history. I'm not suggesting a FF parallel, but it seems the only option is a slight shift from a stiff chronological continuity to more of a "spiritual" continuity.

[A-Yty]

I don't agree, because in my opinion it's the storyline being relatively low in CV teams' priorities that makes it seem like the advancing continuity itself is the issue.

I mean, would it make it any better if it's basically the same thing, but without the possibility of referring to previous events? I feel it would make it kind of shallow. To me, moments like Richter talking about Trevor or Alucard referring to DC are cool. The story may feel thin, but I can't say it's not part of CV's charm. It's mainly because the CV storyline didn't conform to modern video game storytelling as much as many others have that makes it seem antiquated or in need of a complete change.

If the continuity would be fleshed out better in the next reboot, I think it would be a better alternative to FF-styled, self-contained settings. I'm not an FF fan, but can some FF fan honestly say that the series hasn't gotten incredibly stale - despite being free of the constraints of continuity?

[shelverton.]

I don't think so. Konami doesn't care about CV, and even less about life-long fans.

I actually think Konami care a lot about Castlevania. Out of all Konami franchises (not counting DDR) it's the one with the most entries. In fact, I think Konami was getting increasingly frustrated that one of their beloved flagship series didn't sell as much as they wanted to. But it's clearly their own fault, not giving developers bigger budgets and not doing proper marketing.

Maybe they were relying too much on critical acclaim (something Castlevania has had a lot of.) thinking the games would keep selling themselves without much effort. It's like they were thinking: "Wow! Our GBA/DS games gets pretty great scores! Let's make the same game over and over!" (And I'm a huge fan of those games, but even I realize that they are incredibly similar. No wonder the fascination wore off.)

 I do however agree that the "life-long fan" thing is not something Konami care that much about. I honestly don't think they care about storylines like the players do - it's more of a necessary evil to them. So, no. I too doubt we'll ever see a return to the original timeline.

But still; Lords of Shadow is proof for me that - regardless of the quality of those games - Konami do care about Castlevania. They're willing to go out of their way to make Castlevania popular again. Personally, I think they're doing it wrong. But that's from a gamers perspective, not a business one. And it's all about da money for them!

[Intersection]

I don't agree, because in my opinion it's the storyline being relatively low in CV teams' priorities that makes it seem like the advancing continuity itself is the issue.

I mean, would it make it any better if it's basically the same thing, but without the possibility of referring to previous events? I feel it would make it kind of shallow. To me, moments like Richter talking about Trevor or Alucard referring to DC are cool. The story may feel thin, but I can't say it's not part of CV's charm. It's mainly because the CV storyline didn't conform to modern video game storytelling as much as many others have that makes it seem antiquated or in need of a complete change.

If the continuity would be fleshed out better in the next reboot, I think it would be a better alternative to FF-styled, self-contained settings. I'm not an FF fan, but can some FF fan honestly say that the series hasn't gotten incredibly stale - despite being free of the constraints of continuity?

Storytelling never was Castlevania's strong suit, nor was it ever its greatest priority; we can all agree on that.
I wasn't saying that the isolated, self-contained settings of Final Fantasy and the like would function any better in Castlevania than a more traditional chronology. And I certainly hope the CV continuity isn't anywhere near antiquated.

But here's my point: a game, by definition, needs a plot to drive it forward. All canon Castlevania titles we've seen have been situated in relatively precise points of the same same chronology; as such, they are all consistent with each other. Yet there is little space left in the timeline; Konami will inevitably have to look elsewhere to situate its future games.
How can it do that? It could introduce a new, entirely separate timeline -- which they did for LoS. But this timeline must be considered "alternate" to avoid further confusing the CV continuity; it means that it cannot be exploited as heavily as the original timeline. Otherwise, Konami must, in a sense, detach Castlevania from any fixed chronology to create similar but self-sufficient games which can resemble each other only in spirit. I'm not saying it's any better; in fact, it would wear off a considerable part of Castlevania's charm. But there aren't so many other alternatives.
For the sake of it, here's a third. Konami could change the family, change the vampire, and start over again. That's quite possible. But, again, the series would lose a great deal by doing so.

I don't see many other possibilities. Any ideas?

[Belmontoya]

@nagumo

I would be very surprised if Konami brought IGA back after how much better sales of the current Castlevania games have been in contrast to IGA's latest efforts.

They are in the business to make money.

I think a new developer is almost a sure thing. We've already heard rumors about this. I also think a new timeline is likely. Or perhaps a game that isn't as focused on that, like Cv4.