Topic: Is Squeenix killing Final Fantasy, or is the modern market?

[X]

Technology does not a good game make. And one could argue that the newer generations are just as spoiled rotten by flashy graphics with actual substance falling by the way side. And if I hear another little bitch belly aching  at RHDN begging for easy versions of classic games... I'm going to continue generalizing the gamers of today as a bunch of sorry ass pansies. T_T

On a side not, one of my guilty pleasures is whenever a younger relative bitches about a modern game being too hard, I make them play the first stage of CV1 and then laugh as they inevitably either fail to reach the end of the stage or are murdered by a giant bat that barely moves. Then I laugh and show them how it's done as they watch in awe. Then if they whine about it I make them play Ninja Gaiden.

That's brutal, lol! If you really wanna be a dick to them then may I suggest Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels. There is no greater pain then trying to beat that game.

[Kingshango]

I just read up some more info about the FFX 2.5 and it is simply amazing.

[crisis]

Technology does not a good game make.

"good" is subjective, but the point I was trying to make was, it's all still amazing. Every single piece of technology we have is simply amazing, new and old. Even the mundane stuff we take for granted. These games, whatever your opinion on them is, are still incredible feats of human ingenuity and creativity. I'm going off on a tangent now but that's because I just watched this Louis C.K. comedy special and he made some excellent points about this subject, how "everything's amazing, but nobody's happy" and it's true, lol. Just made me realize how fortunate we all are to talk about stuff like this.

Even though you may not like it, just appreciate that you have the option to not like it I guess

[Dracula9]

Honestly, I think it's a little of both. A few of the newer FF releases haven't been up to par with the ones that preceded it - *glares at X and X-2* - but I think a lot of it also has to do with the market values and people throwing fits over everything.

Take the FFXIII arc, for instance. I've heard quite a lot of negativity about the first two games in the so-far trilogy (it DOES still count even if the third one's not released yet, right?), when I personally have had my faith in the series boosted by them. And this is Mr. Conductor talking - with the exception of XI, XII, and XIX (though I still know their synopses), I've played them all heavily - and I know what I'm talking about.

But, I'm going to just point at the massive amount of hate FFXIII-2 is getting over the time-travel plot. Most of the people bitching about it are the same people who won't hesitate to jump the gun and say Chrono Trigger is one of the best games ever. The monster-capturing? FFV did that with the Beast Master, as did VI with Relm's Sketch ability (a little different, but the basic premise is the same). Chrono Trigger had the time-travel generality (hell, even the loading screen/vortex for going between times in XIII-2 is strongly reminiscent of Trigger's inside-the-Gate vortex), though XIII-2 touches on the three main theories of time travel (fixed timeline, dynamic timeline, and multiverse timeline, respectively) a little more in-depth than CT did (though, to be fair, CT did have its fair share of back-and-forthing due to dynamic timeline changes). One would imagine elaborating more on one of the main things that made Chrono Trigger so beloved and timeless (pun intended?) would only improve its quality, but the market and fandoms have never been known to be entirely logical.

But yeah, I'd say it's a little bit of Square-Enix either starting to plateau for the fall or going through the inevitable rough patch, and a little bit of the fandom/market being unreasonable and silly.

[Inccubus]

"good" is subjective, but the point I was trying to make was, it's all still amazing. Every single piece of technology we have is simply amazing, new and old. Even the mundane stuff we take for granted. These games, whatever your opinion on them is, are still incredible feats of human ingenuity and creativity. I'm going off on a tangent now but that's because I just watched this Louis C.K. comedy special and he made some excellent points about this subject, how "everything's amazing, but nobody's happy" and it's true, lol. Just made me realize how fortunate we all are to talk about stuff like this.

Even though you may not like it, just appreciate that you have the option to not like it I guess

However, I still don't have my flying car. ಠ_ಠ

All jesting aside, that is a good way to look at it. There isn't enough appreciation in the world in general. I'm reminded of such things when I have to input text on my Wii U and it doesn't have swype capability like my phone. But I will say concerning games that there is a problem when too much focus is placed on a single technology over another.

Honestly, I think it's a little of both. A few of the newer FF releases haven't been up to par with the ones that preceded it - *glares at X and X-2* - but I think a lot of it also has to do with the market values and people throwing fits over everything.

Take the FFXIII arc, for instance. I've heard quite a lot of negativity about the first two games in the so-far trilogy (it DOES still count even if the third one's not released yet, right?), when I personally have had my faith in the series boosted by them. And this is Mr. Conductor talking - with the exception of XI, XII, and XIX (though I still know their synopses), I've played them all heavily - and I know what I'm talking about.

But, I'm going to just point at the massive amount of hate FFXIII-2 is getting over the time-travel plot. Most of the people bitching about it are the same people who won't hesitate to jump the gun and say Chrono Trigger is one of the best games ever. The monster-capturing? FFV did that with the Beast Master, as did VI with Relm's Sketch ability (a little different, but the basic premise is the same). Chrono Trigger had the time-travel generality (hell, even the loading screen/vortex for going between times in XIII-2 is strongly reminiscent of Trigger's inside-the-Gate vortex), though XIII-2 touches on the three main theories of time travel (fixed timeline, dynamic timeline, and multiverse timeline, respectively) a little more in-depth than CT did (though, to be fair, CT did have its fair share of back-and-forthing due to dynamic timeline changes). One would imagine elaborating more on one of the main things that made Chrono Trigger so beloved and timeless (pun intended?) would only improve its quality, but the market and fandoms have never been known to be entirely logical.

But yeah, I'd say it's a little bit of Square-Enix either starting to plateau for the fall or going through the inevitable rough patch, and a little bit of the fandom/market being unreasonable and silly.

I'm not sure what people have been bitching about in terms of XIII-2's monster catching, but it isn't really the same as FFV and much less so than FFVI. And in fact I don't see anything wrong with being able to tame monsters and use them as party members. That's actually a step in the right direction.

Personally my issues with XIII are the near complete departure of it's story, setting, and artwork from Fantasy to Sci-fi. Even FFVII had a fair mix of the two. The other thing besides the actual game play that I felt departed too much from Final Fantasy as a series was turning the Summons into Transformers in a blatant attempt to cash in on the movies that came out around the same time. It's an obvious situation of someone in charge saying, "Hey! Transformers made a lot of money, lets put them into FF!". That is the sort of crap that pisses fans off.

Speaking of movies, Square Enix should realize that gamers want to play games, not interactive movies. That's a whole other genre and modern FF looks like it'll end up being more like an over-the-top Indigo Prophecy/Heavy Rain/Two Souls than an actual RPG.

There is a point at which a series is "evolved" into a different species all together. And for me the biggest thing is when core game play is heavily altered. So, like I mentioned before, FFXI, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV, and FFXV are not really FF at all. They are experiments, offshoots, and gaiden. Strip them of refeerences to FF and no one would say, "Hey! This could have been a FF game!" There's a reason why FFT isn't FFVIII. There's a reason Crystal Chronicles isn't part of the "main series". Where as FFG: 4WoL and BD:FF could have and should have been. Maybe it's all semantics to some, but take other series and try that and it doesn't fly with some of the same people. If you took Street Fighter and used a version of the Mortal Kombat style of game play is it still really still Street Fighter? Make a Sonic game where he has to abide by Mario's physics and is it really still Sonic?

[X]

FFIV

I think you forgot to put the 'X' in FFXIV cause it looks like your bashing FFIV, LOL!

I'm not sure what people have been bitching about in terms of XIII-2's monster catching, but it isn't really the same as FFV and much less so than FFVI. And in fact I don't see anything wrong with being able to tame monsters and use them as party members. That's actually a step in the right direction.

Monster-catching is an old gimmick. It goes all the way back to the early Dragon Quest games and people love that series to death.

[Dracula9]

I never said there was anything wrong with it, Inccubus. Just that the most basic premises of things people (and by people, I mostly mean those fans who act like asshats on the Internet with their opinions because it's cool to hate stuff on the Internet) are complaining about are things Square has done, also in basic premise, successfully in the past. That's all.

And while you're totally right on the lengths to which the recent titles have gone from the original premises of the series, I don't wholly agree that that rules it out as "not an FF." Really, all I need for an FF is some ATB-based combat, a compelling enough storyline that relates more towards individual character growths and motivations (and IMO FFXIII did a pretty good fucking job at this, for the most part), and any number of the series' classic character icons. It may sound shallow, but I never can get over an FF not having a classic Moogle or Tonberry or Chocobo. Just a sort of back-of-the-mind nag of mine.

Though, we've long since established I look at games a lot differently than most here do. *shrugs*

[Fofa]

XII is really more akin to FFT than the main series.

XII was done by the same people who developed Tactics.

[Inccubus]

I know. It's even officially named as part of the Ivalice Alliance sub-series.

I never said there was anything wrong with it, Inccubus. Just that the most basic premises of things people (and by people, I mostly mean those fans who act like asshats on the Internet with their opinions because it's cool to hate stuff on the Internet) are complaining about are things Square has done, also in basic premise, successfully in the past. That's all.

I didn't say you did either, lol. I assumed those 'people' who were complaining found fault in it.

[Ahasverus]

The modern market ate a 200 hours RPG about Dragons and nordic gods in millions, I'm sure the genre is not the problem, but, have you played the last 3 games? Absolute indisputable garbage. SE is such a joke company it would be funny if they didin't have Legacy of Kain held hostage,

[Dracula9]

Eh...I'm pretty against calling them indisputable garbage, but to each his own.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If they decide the damn continuity of the LoK (well, aside from the atrocity that was BO2) series needs updating, then we'll know.

[Super Waffle]

The problem with Final Fantasy XIII is this EXACT plot would be solved in like 40 minutes in an episode of The Outer Limits.

I'm not even exaggerating. Look up "Feasibility Study."


My Vanille figure is looking at me with plastic remorse.

discuss.

[KaZudra]

Honestly, its all Square-Enix.

Look at Tomb Raider, the game was great, and now when the game is about to be 1 year old, this Fraud Edition is coming out with all these new features...
Realistic Lara? FUCK THAT, Give her Bigger eyes and a tighter face like the anime characters
Pack in all the DLC that people didn't buy
Nonstop talk about graphics and how they can only be achieved on next-gen hardware, locked at 30fps
so how much is this version? $60! even though the PC version is $50 and the console versions are $10-$20.

Square-Enix pretty much officially states that graphics are more important than the game itself with this move.

[Munchy]

I just want a new Actraiser. ._.

[Super Waffle]

Tomb Raider Fraud... Edition?

let me look this up.


Oh, so now Square is adapting the Namco Tales marketing gimmick of releasing a glorified beta version of their mainstream titles on one platform, and then releasing a better version somewhere else within the same year to cheaply make more money using existing assets / stab existing customers in the back.  My faith in gaming society certainly isn't hindered by the fact that this is apparently still a viable business strategy.