Topic: Disappointment about new Castlevanias:bitterness, nostalgy, or legitimate view?

[olrox2]

In the latest years, a decent number of Old Ips have had a reboot, or new games that were controversial. Hitman got Absolution, Splinter Cell got Conviction,Thief just got this, well, special, fourth episode.

Sometimes fans tend to say that publishers have a Midas Hand that turn whatever they touch into dust. On the other part,  people say: Oh fans, you are unable to evolve, to enjoy new content, you are delusional. Deal with it.

Same issues tend to happen for Castlevania: some fans think the  doom of Castlevania starts after Circle of the Moon/Harmony of Despair, because Castlevanias should always be dark and 2d Castlevanias become colorful after those games.Others see Iga as the devil.Other just think Lords of Shadow is the ultimate heresy, the proof Konami is killing Castlevania.


So are such complaints legitimate or just the result of our bitterness and nostalgy? When changings i dont like happen about a game i love, i feel betrayed and not respected. I know i cant do anything, but a dark part of me thinks"Grrr how dare they, gonna lower the rate on metacritic, even if i know that wont change anything".

There is a writer who once wrote that when an author publishes a content, this content doesnt belong him anymore, but belong to  people who read it, because they appropriate this content.Their own views of the content do matter, more than what the writer initially thought.

For video games that seems more complicated, there is not a single writer, and many artists are involved in the process.However, dont you think Konami should listen to  his fans a bit more?

I feel myself entitled to have expectations about a gme i know well, and its hard for me to consider someone who nevr got interest in Castlevvania and suddenly getst to work on it should be considered as legitimate. Unlesss he proves he has a global good comprenhension of the universe, that he  has artistic intuition.

[Shinobi]

Actually that sort of thing started out with Symphony of the Night and it's followups called "Metroidvanias" which overshadows the more linear classicvanias. Even before Lords of Shadows existed, CV fans was already divided into two factions, those who more favored with Classicvanias and those who more favored with Metroidvanias. Even Ninja Gaiden/Ninja Ryukenden series from NES/Famicom which I also grown with was also rebooted starting from the XBOX game to the present but I don't have a hard feelings or felt betrayed even the slightest so I won't mind it will happened someday in Castlevania series and it does.

[shelverton.]

For me, the only thing that matters is if the game is fun to play. The last couple of games I've played in the series (LoS, MoF, Despair and Judgment) were no fun at all. I've seen a few walkthrough videos of LoS2 and it looks boring too. So while I think Mercurysteam fucked up the series I also think IGA fucked it up even before that, just in a completely different way.

I hope someone new takes over. It 's not about being faithful to the series roots, it's about making a game that is fun to play. I don't care if it's dark, bright, 3D, sidescroller, metroidvania or God of War-style action. If it's fun it's fun, and if it ain't it ain't.

I'm not bitter, just bored.

[Viskod]

The worst thing Lords of Shadow did for me was make me really like Dracula, so the next time we get a Castlevania with him as the end boss I'm not going to want to kill him again.

Reboots can be a good thing for older series that needed a breath if fresh air and I think Castlevania certainly needed one. I love Lords of Shadow but I'm glad it's not a full on reboot of the franchise because of how poorly LoS2 handled the series world and story.

I can certainly understand fans not liking where a series goes within reason but I draw the line at a lot of the belligerent attitudes I see over new game design in a series and fans trying to dictate what a series is or isn't supposed to be and generally acting like they own any part if it outside if the games they've already bought or that they're owed something.

I loved Prince of Persia, and I loved Sands of Time. Then Warrior Within came out and they turned the happy go lucky prince into yet another grim dark guy who smolders with generic rage. Now Warrior Within could be a perfectly fine game, but I never played it because I didn't care for the change to the protagonist. But that change in tone doesn't make it any less of a Prince of Persia title just because I didn't like it.

[Flame]

A little bit of both.

theres some legit complaints, depending on taste, for example- the combat or music just isnt for some people. But then there IS a lot of blind nostalgia going on too. Ive seen countless people bitching and boaning "THIS ISNT CASTLEVANIA, WHEN ARE 2D METROIDVANIAS COMING BACK"

There are people who feel that Metroidvanias started the decline of the series and almost Megaman'd it, while others are blind to the fact of the quality drop, and insist that we get nothing but metroidvanias by IGA until the end of time.

Personally? I feel like the decline started under IGA, not LoS. Dawn started it. And it only got worse from there.

Lords of shadow has it's faults, and I can get its not for everyone, but theres no denying its impact or sales numbers. Fact is, it brought Cast;evania back from the brink of death, so i appreciate that.

Who knows what will come next though.

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

For me it all comes down to whether I like the gameplay. If someone takes something with a gameplay style I like and replaces it with a gameplay style I don't, it's nearly impossible for me to like what they've done.

[olrox2]

I spent a lot of time capturing all souls in Aria of Sorrow and tha element alone made me forget everything else. However, i didnt find the artistic design memorable, not as much as Sotn.

Regarding old casltevanias, i think i did all of them except Simon Quest, i used quicksaves a lot cause difficulty was "Nes hard" ,if not more. That was more to discover the story of this games,i mean, to say "i have played this games".

Even if it may seem  a minor point, i liked the idea of an adventure running through générations, to think, hey "Belmonts have kept fighting all this time".
Circle of the Moon would have been perfect, if not for those lights issues that killed my eyes.

What i missed when i switched to 3 d Castlevanias(LoI) was not that much the fact it wasnt in 2d, but the fact it lacked content. Less to explore, powers less interesting than in 2d castlevanias...

Every Metroidvania i played featured cool powers. Sotn has the widest amount of powers of all castlevanias, and you can enjoy collecting those wonderful items:collectin all shields to get all summonings, collecting Swords, levelling your pets to see what power they get.... Well tbh Alucard was overpowered with all this, but that was lot of content.
Circle of the Moon had those cards to collect and combine.Aria of Sorrow had souls. Harmony of despair had less interesting powers imo.

3d Castlevania games hadl imited content regarding powers: orbs for Leon, Innocences for Hector(well thats better), combos, one summoning and knifes and fairies for Gabriel.

Gabriel only has at most a dozen of powers, when Alucard had items, spells and relics.

[Trevelyan]

It's totally legitimate to dislike when a franchise changes drastically.  You don't owe a corporation your loyalty. 

That said, when a franchise has to change to survive, the companies don't want to 'betray' you, they just have to take the profitable direction.

There are some fans who think if the new ways failed, it would make Konami change back to the old ways, but that's where fans can be misguided.   If the old ways were viable, they would still be doing things that way. 

In the long term, there's probably more chance of getting old-style Castlevania games again if the new ones keep making money.  Ideally Konami could do like Nintendo - they make 3D Mario and Zelda, but just recently also did a classic-style Link Between Worlds. 

Try not to take it personally, but again, you don't owe them your support.  Voting with your money is the most effective means. 

[crisis]

There are some fans who think if the new ways failed, it would make Konami change back to the old ways, but that's where fans can be misguided.   If the old ways were viable, they would still be doing things that way.

dingdingding, we have a wiener ladies & gentlemen

[Maedhros]

It's totally legitimate to dislike when a franchise changes drastically.  You don't owe a corporation your loyalty. 

That said, when a franchise has to change to survive, the companies don't want to 'betray' you, they just have to take the profitable direction.

There are some fans who think if the new ways failed, it would make Konami change back to the old ways, but that's where fans can be misguided.   If the old ways were viable, they would still be doing things that way. 

In the long term, there's probably more chance of getting old-style Castlevania games again if the new ones keep making money.  Ideally Konami could do like Nintendo - they make 3D Mario and Zelda, but just recently also did a classic-style Link Between Worlds. 

Try not to take it personally, but again, you don't owe them your support.  Voting with your money is the most effective means. 

Man, this post is great.

[Gunlord]

Good post, Trevelyan. That said, I think a lot of folks may indeed be voting with their money...LoS2 hasn't done that well in reviews. While reviews may not equal sales, sometimes they do correlate, and if thats the case...

[derision]

LoS2 in particular fails to really provide an actual conclusion to its series, let alone a satisfying one. That's where the bulk of my disappointment with the new direction lies since I have otherwise enjoyed the gameplay, visuals, music, characters, and worldbuilding of the LoS games.

For me, the only thing that matters is if the game is fun to play. The last couple of games I've played in the series (LoS, MoF, Despair and Judgment) were no fun at all.

Yes, fun matters. I have highly enjoyed my time with all of those games, barring Judgment, so the issue of "fun" hasn't been a concern for me.

[e105beta]

LoS2 in particular fails to really provide an actual conclusion to its series, let alone a satisfying one. That's where the bulk of my disappointment with the new direction lies since I have otherwise enjoyed the gameplay, visuals, music, characters, and worldbuilding of the LoS games.

Yes, fun matters. I have highly enjoyed my time with all of those games, barring Judgment, so the issue of "fun" hasn't been a concern for me.

I had fun playing Judgment. It was a nice little Castlevania theme'd diversion to play with friends.

I'm a bad person.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

I had fun playing Judgment. It was a nice little Castlevania theme'd diversion to play with friends.

I'm a bad person.

Judgement would have been a ok "side game" in the castlevania series had the character designs been left alone.

Those new revamped designs really rubbed a lot of people the wrong way,

[theANdROId]

In the long term, there's probably more chance of getting old-style Castlevania games again if the new ones keep making money.  Ideally Konami could do like Nintendo - they make 3D Mario and Zelda, but just recently also did a classic-style Link Between Worlds. 

I think that's my hope.  I'm usually okay with changes because I know that sometimes they have to happen.  As long as the general story/idea of the series stays alive, it's there for someone new to come along and say, "Hey, I remember this certain Castlevania I liked from when I was a kid.  Now I'm a professional game developer with money and now some ideas for a new Castlevania game!  I think I'll make it!"  This may mean some inevitable, less-than-ideal titles, but it just as easily means some inevitable, just-what-the-doctor-ordered titles.

But it seems my views are very different from many of the others here.  As it was said, some say the metroidvanias ruined CV, some say it was brighter colors, some say we should ONLY have classic style, some say we should ONLY have metroidvanias...but I like and want them all.  I like Legends, even though IGA kicked it from the timeline.  I like CV 64 even though it has "pointy" edges.  I like HoD despite the bright colors.  I like DoS even though it's anime styled.  Even though the men are girly, I like CoD.  CV3 is freakin' hard, but I like it!  Everything I know about CV was changed in MoF, and it was filled with references that sometimes felt like a forced fanservice for old-school fans...but I still like it.  I don't know if all of that makes my opinions here worthless...but it is what it is.  I just like Castlevania...even if it's sometimes "different".