Topic: One thing I still don't fully get in LOS2

[Lumi Kløvstad]

When Delusion!Carmilla appears in Gabe's little... mind... castle... place/thing, she appears in her Brotherhood of Light robes, but with a villainous air, and a personality that doesn't even really resemble the version of her that Gabe met years before.

Gabriel never met her when she looked like that-- that was literally decades before his time. The version of her that he did meet looked very different and aside from showing MASSIVE cleavage had a very regal and restrained bearing until Gabe actually fought her, when the gloves understandably came off. She certainly made veiled use of her sexuality to try and dissuade Gabriel from opposing her, and then made very plain during the fight she intended to force him to submit and become a replacement for Olrox and Brauner (whom he had killed shortly before), but at no point did she really show much of a sexual interest in him or a particular single minded obsession with him.

Then in Lords 2, she appears in a Castle in Gabriel's mind in a shape he'd never really seen, with a personality with major significant deviations from the actual person he'd met --this Carmilla was obsessed with either having his love, or, failing that, using him as a twisted boy-toy. She's sultry, flirtatious, and quick to anger, and has none of the regal posture or bearing held by the Queen of the Vampires.

All I can imagine is that this is in no way Carmilla, or even a memory of her held by Gabriel, but actually the Inner Dracula spirit taking a voice and appearance the Castle remembered to try to block Gabriel's redemption. The only real similarity with Lords!Carmilla is her fighting style, which brings up interesting implications for another post.

I don't think it's Carmilla, and certainly not a delusion of Gabe's. A delusion would only have the contents of his memory to work with, and this is certainly not beholden to his memory, no matter however flawed it and distorted the Crissaegrim might have left it. Inner Dracula (who is pretty well established as the Castle's magic and spirit taking a defined shape in his psyche) making an early appearance using her voice and shape seems the most likely option here.

So, Lords of Shadow 2 Carmilla is actually the Castle.

Because only in the crazy effed up shared minds of Cox and Alvarez could that make sense.

Thoughts?

[theplottwist]

The thing with that castle is that they don't make its nature very clear, but I think it is a VERY faithful representation of the "ethereal castle" brought to us by the classic timeline.

I mean, the castle in LoS2 can't be inside Gabriel's mind because it exists somewhere. We see that the castle is real when Gabriel drags the acolyte inside it to make him weaker.

Not to mention that Gabriel can travel inside it and appear in other places through it, as if he had been teleported.

This castle is not inside his mind or something like that, but it actually exists in a different plane than the real world, and going by the descriptions of the knights and Marie's and Carmilla's presence, I believe that the castle is on a spiritual plane, just like the classic Dracula's castle.

There are the ruins of the castle, where the city was built, and there are the ethereal castle that still exists on top of those ruins.

Now, with this in mind, Carmilla would be an echo of the castle, just like the other apparitions such as the soldiers, and even Marie and young Trevor. By this point, Gabriel has basically deposited his whole being into the structure itself, so pieces of him are fighting for his soul, and they are represented by these entities. The castle wants its master back, but it ALSO has pieces of Gabriel that want to save him.

[Belmont Stakes]

The real confusing thing is this. Gabriel became the Dragon by drinking Laura's blood who was turned by Carmilla herself. So why does Carmilla's blood poison Gabriel when she makes with the bloodletting? Now I am inside you and your weakness will be my strength. Bitch!! You are being redundant you are already inside of me!

Also she was most surely enamored with Gabriel when he first met her in the throne room with the Mirror of Fate. So there is really no difference there. Keep in mind that Carmilla as a Brotherhood member was pure and chaste. So the dark aspect she left behind was lustful. No matter how you slice it Lord of Shadow or Light member she was very boobalicious and beautiful.

[Super Waffle]

Survey says gotta get more of that teenage male demographic fanservice in the sequel. Fuck it if it makes no sense / openly contradicts the first game.

[TatteredSeraph]

Carmilla represents some of the darker aspects of the castle's spirit, imo, along with Inner Dracula.  She's a conjuration from the darker facets of the shards of Gabriel, and the bits left of Carmilla in him via Laura's blood, combined I suspect with some of Gabe's inner fantasies from when he confronted her.  He saw a portrait of human Carmilla when travelling with Laura through the Founders' Quarters.  I suspect that the Bernhard Demon has something to do with it as well.
The castle existing on another plane makes complete sense.  Alucard also goes there with Marie's help in Revelations.

[Belmont Stakes]

Carmilla represents some of the darker aspects of the castle's spirit, imo, along with Inner Dracula.  She's a conjuration from the darker facets of the shards of Gabriel, and the bits left of Carmilla in him via Laura's blood, combined I suspect with some of Gabe's inner fantasies from when he confronted her.  He saw a portrait of human Carmilla when travelling with Laura through the Founders' Quarters.  I suspect that the Bernhard Demon has something to do with it as well.
The castle existing on another plane makes complete sense.  Alucard also goes there with Marie's help in Revelations.

Perfectly logical points all of them. One thing I ask. In the CV wikia it says "They were driven out of their castle when the Dark Lord of the Vampires came, the Vampire Queen Carmilla." But was this Walter not also a vampire? Two other questions. Who is the Bernhard Demon and was the boy who took the Toymaker's Heart Gabriel?

[theplottwist]

So, I went and asked the man himself about the nature behind the Castle in LoS2. This is what he has to say:



So, it doesn't exist in a spiritual plane of sorts, after all. Which confuses me even more about how the heck can Dracula travel through his own mind to get to places where he couldn't on foot. Or how he could drag the acolyte inside the castle, that exists on his mind.

I'm asking about these things. I hope Enric doesn't get bored and responds to me

EDIT: Based on the response above, I asked how Dracula is able to lure Nergal inside the castle if it isn't real, but inside ihis mind. I asked if the battle was a representation of a mental struggle. This is what Enric responded:



So, it seems that Dracula merely needs to will the castle into existence, and it shall appear, complete with his minions.

[TatteredSeraph]

So then how does Marie take Alucard there then?  It doesn't make as much sense, I agree.

On top of that, if I remember correctly, the artbook states that Alucard disguises himself in different forms, which I believe include his child form.  One thing that is a hint of this I believe is that child Trevor has pale brown/gold eyes, whereas in MoF, Trevor's eyes looked to be more of a blue/green colour.

[JayDominus]

I guess the Castle is some kind of pocket dimension thingy that exists as long as Dracula does (though not necessarily by his will) and is tied to him by his power and... I dunno, when I'm trying to think about it, it always feels like I'm putting more thought into it than the writers did, which is probably true.