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Offline zangetsu468

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Why did Julius lose his memory?
« on: October 15, 2015, 03:43:14 AM »
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I had a random thought the other day.
In 1999 Julius Belmont uses the Vampire Killer to completely destroy Dracula.
He leaves the Vampire Killer in Castlevania, in order to weaken it. Fair to say from 1999-2035 a fair amount of time has passed, Julius would have been a young man in 1999, losing his memory after what he's told is an "accident".

Julius enters the Castle in 2035 under the name "J" due to amnesia. regains his memories of 1999's events upon meeting Soma (
(click to show/hide)
)

Soma Cruz: People call you "J"? Why hide your real name? Are you a criminal?
J: No. I have amnesia. I'm told that I was in an accident in 1999. When I woke up in the hospital, I had forgotten my name and my past.
...............
Soma Cruz: J, what's wrong? You look pale.
J: D-don't worry... just now... all of my memories came flooding back.
Soma Cruz: What!?
(J stands up)
J: It seems that your dark power triggered the return of my memories. Just like I guessed... I have quite an extensive history with Dracula.
Soma Cruz: I thought so...
Julius Belmont: My real name is Julius Belmont... I am a descendant of a clan that has fought against Dracula for ages.
Soma Cruz: And the person who destroyed Dracula in 1999 was...
Julius Belmont: Yes. It was me... but there were others who assisted me...
..............
Julius Belmont: I need my weapon.
Soma Cruz: Your weapon?
Julius Belmont: Yes. It's a whip that was handed down to me. It's called "Vampire Killer." In 1999, I sealed it in this castle to weaken his spirit and magical powers.
Soma Cruz: That means it's in this castle somewhere?
Julius Belmont: Yes. And I know exactly where it is. I'll go and get it now.


So Julius' memories flood back to him upon meeting Soma, even the memories of where he hid the whip which would have meant he'd already won the final battle. It also means his memories before this, including those of the final battle were lost, according to him it's his whole past:

J: No. I have amnesia. I'm told that I was in an accident in 1999. When I woke up in the hospital, I had forgotten my name and my past.
J: Call me J. I am filled with fear when I hear the name Dracula. I came here because of the prophecy. I also thought my memory might return. In fact, since my arrival, I have felt like my memory is returning.

It's never conclusively explained, why did he lose his memory?
If it was the events of 1999, then surely he'd recall his past before then. It's also doubtful that it was part of the ritual, surely he would have remembered his name.
My last guess would have been Dracula himself putting a curse on Julius effectively "erasing" his memory in case Dracula found a way to return one day (through the power of Chaos) but it can't be Dracula, because Julius physically placed the Vampire Killer somewhere in Castlevania - presumably which was after
(click to show/hide)
, hence Julius knew what he was doing then. So why is any point after then any different? He obviously also had to leave the Castle, unless he was aided, which would have meant being aware of who/ where he was post-final battle. He couldn't have been in an actual accident in the real world because his memory loss is far too convenient and it's heavily implied in the game's script that Julius defeating Dracula is directly linked to his amnesia. 

One line struck me like the thundering snap of the Vampire Killer striking a Belmont-blood hungry Dracula who has been starved for centuries:

J: Call me J. I am filled with fear when I hear the name Dracula[/b]. I came here because of the prophecy. I also thought my memory might return. In fact, since my arrival, I have felt like my memory is returning.

Even though he states that his memories came "flooding back" in an instant the second time he speaks to Soma, Julius also stated that he felt his memories were returning before he ever spoke to Soma.

My take on this is that there are 2 possible outcomes:

01) Julius leaving behind the Vampire Killer* - which was sealed within Castlevania within the solar eclipse i.e. another dimension - is why Julius had lost his memory.

*This begs another question, if the final battle was won, how come the Castle didn't crumble in 1999?

02) Julius destroying Dracula and the absence of Dracula's soul/ spirit etc from reality somehow causing Amnesia.

Theory 02 would explain why his memories flood back when he meets Soma the second time, but it doesn't explain why he felt his memories returning since he re-entered Castlevania in 2035, nor does it explain why he believed his memories would return if he visited the Castle (after learning about the prophecy)

Theory 01 in my eyes is more likely the reason. Firstly, POR came out after AOS and although not directly linked, it did explain that the VK has a 'memory' which acts as a record of the previous wielder, and holds an actual memory. Presumably since
(click to show/hide)
it does therefore retain memory and emotions (I recall Leon feeling the VK's rage in LOI) and has a level of sentience, particularly when it comes to Belmont/ Dracula affairs.

It seems possible to me that upon entering Castlevania, the Vampire Killer's power was resonating with Julius and he was starting to get his memory back prior to meeting Soma.
Soma was then the catalyst because the power/ presence of his soul would have awakened once familiar thoughts feelings or sentiments within Julius. It is also entirely possible that the more Julius and Soma were in close proximity/ interacting, the Vampire Killer's rage started to flare up and/ or resonate with Julius which is why after long enough in Soma's presence, the memories suddenly re-surfaced.

 In the canon ending Julius states:

Julius Belmont: You fought well. When we fled the castle, I felt the power from Vampire Killer fading away. I don't know what that means. But I won't have to do anything for the time being. Farewell. May we meet again.

Therefore even though its power has faded or is now laying dormant, Julius doesn't lose his memory and revert to "J".
I can only conclude that the separation from the VK is what caused Julius' inadvertent memory loss.

What are your thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 04:26:58 AM by zangetsu468 »
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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2015, 05:04:33 AM »
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Short answer: IGA didn't want to fucking tell us what happened to Julius because he didn't know what happened to Julius at the time he wrote this.  :P

Quote
This begs another question, if the final battle was won, how come the Castle didn't crumble in 1999?

Dracula was separated from the castle, thus their symbiotic relationship was severed. You remember how the castle crumbles only when its master perishes, and rises when its master revives? Well, if Dracula was separated from the castle first and THEN destroyed, the castle itself would have no reason to crumble, because it had no "perishing master" to trigger its destruction.

That's how I interpret it, at least. For all we know, the castle's physical form could have crumbled anyway, while its spiritual form was trapped inside the eclipse. Arikado does say that the castle is a "spiritual world". How does one crumble a spiritual world? Plus, it's also known that the castle is able to "incarnate". Incarnate on what? On a physical, stone-and-concrete form, of course.

Also, it's always important to note that the reason for the amnesia and its vanishing could be completely mundane as it is known that a concusion alone is able to cause amnesia that goes away as the afflicted person redoes the steps that caused it, or goes away for no clear reason at all.

Julius saying that the mention of Dracula's name alone could strike fear into his heart is a good indication that the his memories had always resided inside his head, just out of reach, buried into his subconscious. But, of course, this could be his mystical connection with Dracula speaking here, and not actually his subconscious. More like "it's in Julius nature to oppose Dracula whether he's aware of it or not".

Quote
Julius Belmont: You fought well. When we fled the castle, I felt the power from Vampire Killer fading away. I don't know what that means. But I won't have to do anything for the time being. Farewell. May we meet again.

Therefore even though its power has faded or is now laying dormant, Julius doesn't lose his memory and revert to "J".
I can only conclude that the separation from the VK is what caused Julius' inadvertent memory loss.

What are your thoughts?

Again I point out that this could be a completely mundane ocurrence. I mean, correlation doesn't imply causation. BUT yeah, this being Castlevania, your hypothesis does make sense.

EDIT: Reading my response again, I see that I might be coming off as a total douche saying "Nah man, stop having fun hypothesizing. This is not cool."

My bad, man. Not my intention. I love myself some hypothesis like these.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 05:17:48 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2015, 05:19:07 AM »
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Thanks plot.

I lol'd at the Iga comment, initially I just thought "because story". :p

Maybe the amnesia was completely random and happened at a random and non-significant point in time, it's more of a plot twist (no pun on your name intended) which is fine, suppose I'm just being honest a) I don't believe in coincidence or chance unless someone is rolling a die/ dice (and even then...) and b) I have actually thought quite a bit about this regarding the whip's memory and so forth, and it's what's making most sense to me.

I understand that notion of the Castle itself. I always interpreted AOS' castle to in fact be an astral place (or semi-astral perhaps). It still has a physical manifestation but exists in a place between dimensions, in this case being the underworld/astral realm and the physical realm. However, Julius stating that he recalled where he'd hidden the VK is a big nod to me that the entirety of Castlevania; whatever was blocks and mortar as well as its astral composition was indeed ALL sealed within the eclipse. The severing of Lord and Castle is something I have been  familiar with (far in the past) but it's interesting to see if CVD peops also share this notion.

Oh and Yay, this was my first topic ever so far as I can recall, even after 500 posts! :)
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LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2015, 05:26:36 AM »
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In fact I also believe that the castle was quite literally plucked from the ground, stone and all, and thrown inside the eclipse as it was. Like, it was banished body-and-soul, y'know? There are quite a lot of evidence to support this and we have already seen this happen before in SotN - The whole thing was sucked up in a beam of light - so it's definitelly not farfetched notion.
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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2015, 10:37:18 AM »
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Julius could have lost his memory when the castle started to break up. He could have received a sharp impact to the head from a falling beam or piece of brick & mortar. Granted the castle is very much intact as we see in AoS, however it would have started to disintegrate but not completely enough to avoid being sent into the eclipse. Some parts of the castle like the chapel and the main entrance hallways are not fully intact. There are numerous holes and large section where there should be walls. This would help explain that the castle started to crumble but did not completely collapse. Julius' accident could have happened around one of these sections.
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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2015, 02:17:12 PM »
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I assume that Julius' memory was accidentally sealed away along with the castle, and so when the castle reappeared and he entered it, his unsealed memory began to return to him.

As for the VK's power fading at the end of Aria, I wave that off as being non-canon.  It's never referenced again and he's still using the VK effectively in Dawn.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2015, 04:01:01 PM »
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As for the VK's power fading at the end of Aria, I wave that off as being non-canon.  It's never referenced again and he's still using the VK effectively in Dawn.
It is canon though.
I don't think it can be waved off, but perhaps the translation isn't 100% correct.
He states he "won't have to do anything for now" but in DOS with Celia's gang appearing, the potential for Soma to become Dracula returned, and this so did the "power" of the VK. There's even an alternate 'bad' ending and a Julius mode where you fight Soma dedicated to this outcome.

I'm not saying it's a throwaway statement, I simply interpret that the VK's rage (power) subsided because 'Chaos' had been defeated and therefore Soma was no longer required to be defeated by a Belmont. Seeing this is the canon ending I believe this is what was intended by the creators. It also supports the belief/ theory that when there is some kind of dark lord (or potential) lurking, the VK's rage (power) would be resonating at it's highest. The statement is more to do with the VK's sentience more than anything, as it's not an object that just loses its power. If this was the case it would have completely lost its power after Dracula's final defeat.

I'll try explaining it this way: the power of the VK is due to Sara's soul. The more rage that its soul has ie during a Dracula battle, the more potential or latent "power" dwells within the VK.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 04:07:46 PM by zangetsu468 »
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            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
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LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 10:55:18 PM »
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Send me the Japanese script for the ending of Aria. And we'll see if the translation is correct or not.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2015, 12:46:20 AM »
+1
Send me the Japanese script for the ending of Aria. And we'll see if the translation is correct or not.

Here it is. Watch from 5:25 onwards.

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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 02:05:10 AM »
+1
Dun dun dun dun.... here you go.

Julius Belmont:
"You did well."

"When I(we) escaped the castle, I noticed that the Vampire Killer has lost* its power."
*The word used here has 3 possible meanings:
a part is lost due to an external force, something failed, or the presence/existence is lost
Inferring from the 3rd meaning, the Vampire Killer did not manifest its spiritual power after the escape.
But that doesn't mean it literally lost its power.

"I don't know what this means but, it seems that I'm going to have some spare time."

"See you."

"Until we meet again."

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2015, 03:51:56 AM »
0
This ties with the explanation given in Dawn of Sorrow's library mode:

Vampire Killer:
A whip that destroys all that is associated with the dark creatures of the night.  As a result of an ancient blood pact, it can only be used by a Belmont.  Its power was temporarily weakened last year when Soma broke free of his destiny as the dark lord. However, its potent power has not been entirely lost.

Shiroi-chan always sweeping down to save our butts.  :D

Also, Zangetsu, this might interest you:

Julius Belmont:
A descendant of a clan of vampire hunters, he wields a generations-old whip named "Vampire Killer."  He lost his memory when he defeated Dracula in 1999, and only regained it during last year's incident.  He now assists the Church in their undertakings.

So he definitelly lost it in 1999, and it definitelly is tied with the battle against Dracula.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 03:56:26 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 04:06:30 AM »
0
This ties with the explanation given in Dawn of Sorrow's library mode:

Vampire Killer:
A whip that destroys all that is associated with the dark creatures of the night.  As a result of an ancient blood pact, it can only be used by a Belmont.  Its power was temporarily weakened last year when Soma broke free of his destiny as the dark lord. However, its potent power has not been entirely lost.

Okay interesting. So with Shiroi's aforementioned translating the game's translation to English wasn't inaccurate. I'm sticking to my guns after all on this.

If its "potent power" wasn't completely active during DoS I then wonder if this is a canon explanation to why Julius was significantly nerfed between the two games.

Shiroi-chan always sweeping down to save our butts.  :D
Thanks Shiroi that was incredibly sweet of you.

Also, Zangetsu, this might interest you:

Julius Belmont:
A descendant of a clan of vampire hunters, he wields a generations-old whip named "Vampire Killer."  He lost his memory when he defeated Dracula in 1999, and only regained it during last year's incident.  He now assists the Church in their undertakings.

So he definitelly lost it in 1999, and it definitelly is tied with the battle against Dracula.

Cool, Julius also definitely recalls leaving the VK behind so this is assisting in my hypothesis. Thanks plot!
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
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            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Why did Julius lose his memory?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2015, 12:14:39 AM »
0
Shiroi-chan always sweeping down to save our butts.  :D
Thanks Shiroi that was incredibly sweet of you.

Thanks guys. This request came just in time when I just needed a break from translating hard core economic stuff to something more simple.